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Posted: 10/25/2009 5:58:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2009 6:03:59 AM EST by bobapunk]
I know, coming to ARFcom to ask for an opinion is like asking for trouble, but here I go anyway.

This year I got into shooting USPSA; mostly pistol but some carbine and shotgun as well. I ran a bone stock Beretta 92fs in a Bladetech. I only ever shot in Prod- class.

Next year I would like to shot in a + class so I am out looking for .45acp. As of right now, I am not totally set on Prod+ or Single Stack.

Anyway, if I decide single stack, then a 1911 it is. However, I am leaning more toward Prod+. I am wondering what your opinions are on what to get...

I am looking at the G21SF, the XD45 5", and the FNP-45USG.

The Glock and the SA are pretty close to the same price, the FN is about $50-100 more...

I really like the FNP-45, however, for USPSA, I want to get away from the double action first shot. Even though the USG allows "cocked-n-locked" I do not know if USPSA rules would allow that as a start condition.

I shot a G21 2ndGen yesterday and did ok at 25 feet; I am a lot better with a 1911 thought. That is why I was thinking that the G21sf might be good. The only XD I have ever shot was an XD-45c and I was shooting at 25m. Did surprisingly well putting all 10 shots on paper.

I really need some help deciding!







Link Posted: 10/25/2009 6:31:36 AM EST
Hey I only shoot production in the USPSA so I will not be much help for you... however have you seached the forums on

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?act=idx

there is a wealth of information about the selected guns you have chosen

Hope this helps
Link Posted: 10/25/2009 8:16:45 AM EST
I'm not quite sure what a + class is.

If you want to shoot production I would probably stay away from a .45. Everyone is scored minor regardless of caliber and it's more expensive than 9mm. Although you could down load to a pretty slow minor load if you really wanted to, but then you might have reliability issues.

In Production the first shot has to be double action so you can't cock and lock it. A double action first shot isn't really much of a disadvantage though, I shoot a SP01 in production and don't feel that it holds me back, plus the single action trigger is SWEET. I don't know too much about the FN's but there doesn't seem to be as much aftermarket support for them like Glock, S&W, CZ etc.
Link Posted: 10/25/2009 1:29:55 PM EST
So there is not Major PF (+) in Production Class? That I did not know...

Let me ask another question then, what class would one shoot a .45acp in? Limited??

Also, it you are shooting a Glock or SA-XD you do not have to have your first shot be double action...
Link Posted: 10/25/2009 3:24:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By bobapunk:
So there is not Major PF (+) in Production Class? That I did not know...
Nope everyone is score minor.

Let me ask another question then, what class would one shoot a .45acp in? Limited??
Yep, Limited or Open, although it's not as competitive because of less capacity than .40 or .38 Super, would be OK for Limited 10 since everyone can only load 10. If you got a 1911 then you could either shoot Singlestack or get some 10 round mags and shoot Limited 10
Also, it you are shooting a Glock or SA-XD you do not have to have your first shot be double action...
All shots with those are considered Double Action, guns in Production must be DAO or DA/SA


Link Posted: 10/26/2009 4:49:29 AM EST
Just to expand on what has already been said.

Your first stop should be the brian enos forum––its the ARF.com of the competition shooting world, and most of your questions can be answered there if you search a little bit.

Just to help you out a little, its Production Division, and Limited Division, not class. Class refers to your skill level within a division.

A single stack 1911 could be used in Single Stack Division, or Limited 10 Division. You could technically use it in Open and Limited as well, but you would be at a disadvantage based on capacity. In Limited Division, you are limited to magazines that are no more than 140mm in length, and you have to shoot a 9mm or larger. To be scored major, you must shoot .40 cal or larger. With these two limitations in mind, that is why nearly everyone shoots a .40 in Limited. It is the smallest diameter bullet that allows you to be scored major, and allows you the most number of rounds in the length-limited magazine.

If you are looking for the most versatile gun (and are trying to be cost-concious) get a Glock 35. You can load some minor .40 loads and shoot Production Division. You can shoot major loads and compete in Limited and Limited 10 Division. You can also use it in IDPA matches. Very versatile.

A .45 such as an XD, Glock etc. is not a bad choice, but its not the best choice, and will limit you as to what Division you compete in (or will at least limit you to how competetive you will be in a Division). If you have something in the safe right now––anything––that will fit into a Division, I would suggest that you go shoot a few matches before you make a big investmemt. Shoot other guns (other competitors will usually gladly let you try out their equipment). You will get a better idea of what works, and what you want.
Link Posted: 10/26/2009 4:20:17 PM EST
In the OP I stated that I have shot matches all year with a 9mm Beretta 92fs in Production Div.

What I want is a service .45 that is suitable for use in USPSA. I still haven't decided if I want to shoot Single Stack or Limited-10, but I am leaning toward Limited-10 at this time. I know that a .40 will get you ro Major PF, but as I have no other .40 hardware, and thus no .40 reloading equipment, I want to stick to .45acp... Still waffling between a G-21 SF and an FNH-45...

Thanks for your thoughts.
Link Posted: 10/27/2009 6:17:31 AM EST
I'd say take your pick. Neither one is ideal for Limited 10, but eiter will work just fine. I personally would say go with the Glock due to its track record, but I have heard some glowing reports of the FN.
Link Posted: 10/27/2009 2:59:27 PM EST
What would you recommend for Limited-10? Keep in mind, I want to stick with a .45, not a .40.

Also, I want a duty type weapon that I can compete with. I am not looking for a tricked out competition only gun...

I am leaning toward the FN right now; though I really would like the Glock too. My dad has a Glock 21 so if I want to shoot one, I can..
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 10:08:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2009 10:11:57 AM EST by Razzman1]
If you want to stick with a duty type .45, and don't want a competition gun, I'd say go with a G21SF. The short frame seems quite a bit more comfortable to me than the old full-size G21 frame, and it is one of the softest (if not THE softest) shooting .45acp handguns I have ever shot. Although the aftermarket industry is clearly more established with the Glock than the FN and XD, it is focused on the 9mm / .40 frame size more than the full size, so that is probably a wash. But regardless, you will probably have better luck finding 'stuff' for the Glock than the other choices.

If you were willing to accept a single stack 1911 as mentioned in your initial post, consider an STI 2011 Eagle in .45. A factory Eagle costs a bit more than a factory offering from Springfield or Kimber, but its a nice gun. You could still have a .45, it would be a hi-cap if you wanted to shoot Limited (although at a capacity disadvantage), you would have the 1911 trigger, and ease of competition reloading that an STI / double stack gun gives you. And as far as it being a competition only gun, I'd say it isn't really any more so than a 1911––I've seen cops carrying them.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 3:18:32 PM EST
Why the hate for the 40? It is much cheaper to feed.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 3:18:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By bobapunk:
What would you recommend for Limited-10? Keep in mind, I want to stick with a .45, not a .40.


.45ACP is only particularly competitive in two divisions - L10 and SS.

It's not worth it for Production (no need for Major, and Minor .45ACP loads will typically give you very slow cyclic times), and you are running against significantly higher-capacity firearms in Limited and Open. For example, a .40 Limited gun will usually hold between 20 and 22 rounds per mag and a big stick in Open with 9mm Major would be 26+ rounds. A double-stack .45ACP with Limited-legal mags with usually only have 14 rounds or so. A .45ACP big stick - if you can find one available - likely wouldn't push 20 rounds. Huge disadvantages in both divisions.

L10 and SS see the most .45ACP usage by far - there are a number of top players that do shoot .40 in L10 and SS, though - usually because they shoot Limited as well, and standardize their Major .40 load across all three divisions. Easier to just keep one round around instead of 2 or 3.
Link Posted: 10/28/2009 3:35:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By Hoser:
Why the hate for the 40? It is much cheaper to feed.


No hate, just the fact that I do not have the hardware to reload the .40 since I don' currently own one.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 12:50:24 PM EST
USPSA is basically 2 guns.

GLOCK for production and STI/SV for everything else (except single stack and revolver), anything else your going to short change yourself.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:26:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 11:29:52 PM EST by Dano523]
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