User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/31/2007 9:59:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Depends on threats, size of the structure, etc
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/31/2007 10:02:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Say your typical known to be violent felon average 2 story shithole
door in front door in back + garage |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/1/2007 5:32:42 AM EDT
[#3]
10+
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/1/2007 5:40:08 AM EDT
[#4]
10 total or 10 going in? Wow thats huge you guys must have a large and well funded team |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/1/2007 7:20:29 AM EDT
[#5]
Problems with your neighbors? 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/1/2007 8:26:06 AM EDT
[#6]
We have a 50 man team. The same would hold true if it was patrol serving a search warrant. BTW, that is 10 going inside the structure. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 2/1/2007 11:24:00 AM EDT
[#7]
what are you doing @ 0400 tonight bored?
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 2/8/2007 1:20:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Entry team size and tactics are probably not something that needs to be discussed on open forums.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/8/2007 4:32:52 PM EDT
[#9]
Yep, cause the perps can't figure out exactly what the numbers and tactics are by watching <insert your city here> SWAT on TV.
I'm consistently amazed at the poor judgment used in producing these shows. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2007 12:06:18 PM EDT
[#10]
Well how hard would it be to figure out their tactics? It almost is always traditional yank out the bars, break down the door and flood the house. Once in awhile they break out CS gas...not exactly like SEALs boarding a ship or anything.  Most the career drug dealers I have dealt with just toss up their hands and say "Shit" anyways when SWAT shows up few are foolish enough to go up against 50 guys armed tot he teeth and surrounding their home. Most these criminals have already done time...its just the cost of doing business for them. The fear is that they might be high and fire randomly back of just kill themselves. You do have to be ready and trained, but I don't think these shows are giving the criminals an advantage. I mean if anything these shows are good...they show the criminals that "Wow, these guys have armored cars, body armor, machine guns, and are pretty good if my door gets knocked down I better just give up." The real danger is when the criminals think they have a chance, these shows show that they don't. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2007 1:31:51 PM EDT
[#11]
The real boogie man you need to worry about already knows about SWAT tactics and estimated size of your SWAT team. He may even know who's on the team. The average crackhead/dope slinger/disgrutaled employee doesn't surf AR15.com |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2007 1:33:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Mods go ahead and lock... don't want any of the GD drama in the Tactics forum.... don't see the harm was an non detailed question just currious what the trend was
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2007 3:12:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Look at the military.
The current trend is a minimum four to five people. One to knock the door down, and three to enter the main home. Now of course, you'll need either additional SWAT or uniformed officers to secure the outlaying property and prevent escape. If you have a house with multiple levels or a basement you would want a few additional men. When you enter an individual room depending size you want at least two men per room. Again a lot of variables come into play. Watch the SAS video on the forum. Notice that when they enter a room there are two men who have set fields of fire and they stay within their "box" they don't move about the room. If you're from a small department and have these types of questions you may want to train up with a larger sister department or state police who have larger facilities. Private instruction is also very affordable and may only require a short car trip for you and your officers. Places like Blackwater, Front Sight, Thunder Ranch, have very affordable week long training. If you can't field a decent size SERT/SWAT/what ever you want to call a tactical entry team than you should probably see if you can get that kind of assistance from the State Police on high risk warrants. The only thing worse than a crazy meth addict is an untrained team trying to go in and get him. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2007 4:52:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Willing to bet your teams life on it? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2007 6:17:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Guys I highly doubt that street drug dealers watch SWAT. I mean what would sound better to a street criminal:
"Hey bud lets smoke some pot?" or "Hey bud let roll or we gonna miss daily SWAT show!" Also I am sure they have stuff to do rather than watch and think about tactics (like steal stuff, brake in to cars, apply for credit cards and go on the shopping spree and later search for a pawn shop who will get them the best deal). I think smarter criminals who might be planning a bank heist (for example) for the 5th year in a raw might be learning SWAT techniques. But by the time they will be ready to storm the bank this will occur: A. SWAT will change the techniques for the 10th time B. Bank security will be more advanced C. The bank will move to the different location. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2007 11:24:07 PM EDT
[#16]
What are we talking about, again?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/7/2007 8:48:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Yeah, talking about it here will obviously compromise your team.  You know what... bad guys have almost always had access to nearly the same basic training/tactics that officers have. Some officers think that's not the case, which is sad, because there might come a day when that officer finally realizes that the criminals aren't all in the dark about our tactics. What else can they find on the internet about SWAT? www.amazon.com/SWAT-Battle-Tactics-Enforcement-Self-Defense/dp/0873649001 www.amazon.com/SWAT-Tactics-Jeffrie-Jacobs/dp/0873642651/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9462293-4145622?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173332978&sr=1-1 www.amazon.com/SWAT-Team-Manual-Robert-Cappel/dp/0873641698/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/002-9462293-4145622?ie=UTF8&qid=1173332978&sr=1-1 www.amazon.com/Swat-Leadership-Tactical-Planning-Enforcement/dp/0873648978/ref=sr_1_9/002-9462293-4145622?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173332978&sr=1-9 |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/9/2007 5:25:27 AM EDT
[#18]
We would take all that showed up. About 15. If there is a lot of suspects to deal with you could use more.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/11/2007 8:44:58 AM EDT
[#19]
Two, four to six man sticks. One clears and secures first floor and garage while team two takes the upstairs. Unifomed patrol for outer security.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/11/2007 8:54:40 AM EDT
[#20]
.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/11/2007 8:26:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Most drug dealers set-up their homes to defend against other drug dealers looking to rip them off or kill them. Every single drug dealer I have dealt with weren't crazy enough to think they could take on police officers in tactical gear and live, but those were the ones still alive. A lot of times you'll see teams take fire on their initial entry with the perp looking to do a suicide by cop or just out of their minds high. You don't have CRIMINALS gearing up to take on cops, but thats a different story with cults, terrorists, fundamentalist, etc. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2007 11:09:23 AM EDT
[#22]
Just for grins...
Variable. You have to have a few elements, assuming this is a full up combat operation. 1. Security element. Enough people to secure a perimeter around the objective so nobody from the outside can get into the fight, i.e. your target's buddies from three blocks down coming to help. 2. Cordon element. Can be the same as security, make sure nobody on the objective can escape. 3. Overwatch/support element. Provide fire support for the entry team, can be snipers covering or a machine gun team sweeping the objective ahead of the entry team. 4. Entry team. Sub elements can be breach team, entry/foothold team, and a third team to leapfrog. Command and control element is basically a traffic cop, directing people. Once in the objective, all team members have to be trained on all positions, as teams will become split. 5. Quick re-action force, or QRF. Team that can re-inforce any of the above teams in a critical situation. ETA: Few high speed tips. 1. Assualt from top down, if possible. Gain entry from the roof via helicopter, ladder, etc. That way the enemy never gets trapped, tries to run and is gunned down by elements outside. 2. Never go through a door or window if you can make your own hole. 3. Violence of action. The longer the assault takes, the more chances you will take some casualties. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2007 11:23:32 AM EDT
[#23]
Why not ? Don't us tax-paying peons deserve to know how many JBT's will be coming to shoot our dog, our wife, and burn our house down ?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/18/2007 6:34:21 AM EDT
[#24]
black muslim gang investigation, I ran and supervised; a 2 yr+ RICO, surfed the web continously as well as recon'd the various parking lots of ours for UC vehicles and actual UCs
so they are here trust me they figured out how to change sims on their phones by watching TV-thank god we closed them down in Nov 01 (nice effect there with the dates and their affiliation :) ) because 3 ran off to philly and they didnt as of yet know about triggerfish-which led to their downfall- but this has now been on tv-notably the Wire-3 years ago so dont be talking much shop on these forums which for the life of me I still cant understand why some of you active LEO guys post pics of your faces in gear/gun porn pics-crazy if you ask me-blot out those faces please |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2007 5:07:01 PM EDT
[#25]
secure the outter perimiter and mass fire on doors and windows
breach team moves forward and blows a hole in the wall, tosses in flashbangs/frags 4 man teams move in and secures the room neutralizing any oposition, securing civis and double tapping any bodies teams move out and mark rooms as cleared  wait.......................are we talking cops? |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/28/2007 8:14:57 PM EDT
[#26]
 nice.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/29/2007 11:57:10 AM EDT
[#27]
I've spent the last 8 years on a Colorado Team, and the one thing that stood out.- We are our own worst enemy....Officers running their mouths to non-team Officers, friends, and family about how the team trains, operates, and is armed. Often bragging in the wrong places (like bars) letting info fall into the wrong hands. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 11:52:22 AM EDT
[#28]
"I've spent the last 8 years on a Colorado Team, and the one thing that stood out.- We are our own worst enemy....Officers running their mouths to non-team Officers, friends, and family about how the team trains, operates, and is armed. Often bragging in the wrong places (like bars) letting info fall into the wrong hands. "
You're enemy is NOT supposed to know what you're made of. Its good for your teams strength that your guys feel like they're "the shit". But that leads to oversight, and oversight in a dangerous job leads to injury and death. And some of those SWAT shows, reveal some pretty ugly stuff. Did you see the roided up Dallas SWAT guy with the obvious napoleon syndrome whinning about wanting to be "mr, february" on the SWAT calendar? I've actually LOST respect for SWAT from watching those shows. But I must add, if you're breaking the law to the point that the "boys" decide to show up at your door. Resistance is for fools at that point. No matter how many care to show up.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 11:57:11 AM EDT
[#29]
A Team between 8-7 would do it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/22/2007 12:08:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Nice topic. Those who need to know already know. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/23/2007 5:23:38 AM EDT
[#31]
Then why did you respond in page 1 I don't want to run afoul of the opsec nancys but there is nothing in this thread that would be of any use in repelling a raid.... I do know for a specific area, and was curious about regional differences thats it, like I said in page one if the mods feel like it lock and trash the thread |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
