A buddy and I are going to a CSAT course later in the year.  This is the first time he or I have flown with firearms, so I was wondering what are some issues I should be aware of?

The one thing that I have found out so far is that TSA can only open your gun case WHILE IN YOUR PRESENCE and that you shouldn't give up your keys to the TSA.  Another thing is that some airlines limit how many rounds you can take.  Is this true?  Plus, did you pack your ammo in a different case?  

Thank you for any information.

The TSA lady being unable to lift my Storm case onto the conveyor for the X-ray machine.

I was moving cross country and had two cases full of guns (managed to cram 2 ARs, a shotgun, and 3 pistols into one flight case and 3 hunting rifles into another). I was escorted from the check in desk where I declared my firearms to the TSA desk, carrying both cases. She (a very petite lady) directed me to place them on the counter. I said "These are quite heavy; would you like me to place them on the belt?"
"YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO CROSS THE YELLOW LINE!"
"Ok, sure" *plonked them down on the counter*

She struggled for a few seconds to lift the first case.

"Would you like me to-"
"Please place the cases on the belt."
"Certainly, ma'am!"


I've had a few check-in desk agents ask me to open the case for visual inspection (they're allowed to do this, though I can't figure out why. Best I can tell the agents just want to see what's in there). One time in NC the guy checked out what I had, then we chatted guns for a few minutes. Another time (in Montana, of all places) the lady gasped and said "Is that legal?" and called over another agent who glanced at the ARs and pistols and said "well, yeah" and wandered off.

The most amusing was when a desk agent asked me to open the case at SFO (San Francisco). I said "Are you sure?" "Yes, please open it." I did so, and the lady behind me in line gasped and took several steps back. I smiled at her, dropped the 'weapons unloaded' tag in there and carried it off to the TSA counter.



In short, it's no big deal. Check the FAA guidelines as well as the guidelines for your specific airlines. Generally, guns unloaded, magazines unloaded (or the ammo completely covered - a pmag cover works - but this is unique to certain airlines). Ammo in original packaging or in a container that separates each round (again, specific to the airline). Don't use a TSA lock, don't surrender your keys. Some airlines limit the number of rounds you can check but mostly it's by weight. If you're going to a class where you'll need 1000 rounds you won't be able to carry it due to weight.

You go to the special services check-in desk, present your ID and say "I need to declare an unloaded firearm." They will give you a red tag that says "FIREARMS UNLOADED" with a space for the date. This tag goes INSIDE the case. Depending on the airport they will have you place it there at the counter, or at the TSA desk. After you finish the check-in, someone will escort you to the TSA desk. Usually the person escorting you will carry the case. That's fine, just keep the keys. At the TSA desk they will generally swab the case for explosives (heh, apparently gunpowder doesn't register), they will definitely x-ray it, and they might ask you to open it. I've been asked to open the case maybe 30% of the time. I've never been asked to demonstrate that the weapons are unloaded, although they are allowed to ask you to do that.

Because the TSA desk can take a while if they're backed up or on a long union break, I recommend getting to the airport an hour earlier than you usually would. I've flown with guns 20+ times, ranging from a hard case full of ARs to a Ruger LCP in my checked bag and never had a significant issue. If you're not checking a dedicated gun case, you can check a pistol in a LOCKED hard case inside your regular checked bag. It's advisable to use a steel cable to lock that case to your checked bag to prevent theft by throwers, though I've never done that since I don't have a bag that I can lock the small container to.

If you have a dedicated case, it will USUALLY be at the oversized bag desk, although I've had my guns pop out the regular baggage carousel. If you check it inside a regular suitcase, it will pop out of the carousel. There's nothing visible on the outside of the bag or case to identify that it contains a gun.

Uninformed airline personnel.

Both incidents at Bradley in CT.

1.  Lady freaks out because I had two guns and you can not check two guns!  Took about an hour to get it sorted out.

2.  OMG I had like a 50 round box of 38.  Showed her the printed policy from her airline which allowed several(11 IIRC) pounds of ammo.  Took dumb cunt and her trainee 45 minutes to determine that a)Their airline really did allow that much ammo and b)One box of 38 hollow points did not weigh 11 fucking pounds.  

So when flying out of Bradley I prefer to get there about 3 hours early.

Damn, that's annoying. Shockingly, the folks at SFO were always great to deal with. I expected them to cause trouble, but the biggest issue I had was waiting for them to come back from a break. I lived in CA for a few years and every time I flew back to the midwest to visit my family I brought a carry gun (since my UT CCW allowed me to carry there, but not in CA). They were always quite professional.

Time for the weekly "flying with weapons" thread.

Like I said in the last one:  it's a simple process and you will only have a problem if you create one.

Since in your other thread you were looking for Pelican cases and will be traveling with long guns:

1.  Place cases on scale at ticket counter.
2A.  Rifle:  agent gives you cards which say "UNLOADED FIREARM" which you discretely slip into your case (i.e. don't fling it open so everyone in line can see what you have; crack it enough to put the card in and lock it up.  NOTE:  agent doesn't care what's in the case and I've never had one ask me to see what I have.
2B.  Pistol:  if it's not in the rifle case, make your pistol case the top/last thing in your luggage.  Open luggage, reach in (don't pull case out) and again slip the card in, lock it if you want, close up luggage, place on scale.
3.  Proceed like you would on any other flight without weapons since you are now traveling without weapons.

In short, you, your weapons and the TSA will never be in the same place at the same time; once checked I never have to wait for the weapons to get past some magical point in the process nor go back some/anywhere to open it for TSA.  Once it/they are checked, you are done.

Now go have fun!

Damn Phurba, you beat me!

I had a similar incident with a gasping crowd:  I had an M4A1, M203, M9, CQBR plus accessories in a Pelican.  While the adults around me were oblivious to what what going on, a little kid, who was more at eye level with my case on the scale saw what was in it when I cracked it and and screamed "GUNS!!!".

I figured the parents must have taught the kid to scream "GUNS!" in order for him to do so.

Thanks for the replies, fellas.  And, yeah, I didn't do a search, mea culpa. I will read all your responses more thoroughly later in the day.  Once again, thank you.

Not enough padlocks on my hard case.many available hard gun cases have multiple lock hasps and ive had Homeland Security agents require me to have a lock on every one of them.when i pointed out that the case was flimsy plastic and could be opened with a pocket knife or screwdriver i was to it made no difference, locks were required on all hasps.

The issue I ran into was the spare parts I had with the rifle.  I didn't have any problems checking the rifle, but the spare bolts and BCG's they through fits about.  Told me I was going to be in trouble because I hadn't declared a firearm.  



Took about 45 minutes to sort out, eventually they brought the checked rifle back and I placed the spare bolts and carriers in the case with the rifle.



Nobody noticed the spare barrel in my other bag, lol.  I didn't bring it up since it had already passed the inspection point.



If I go to a gunshow while I'm away from home in the future I'll probably mail everything home to avoid the hassle.

       
 

No worries, that's what the was for.

Always gone smoothly, the six or so times I've done it. It is, however, one of the rare situations where coming off a bit red-necky is a good thing. Goes like this:

Dressed in a suit, the workers view you with a bit of suspicion, and make it seem like you're hassling them.

Dressed with a bit of real tree or hunting camo, workers smile and ask where you're hunting. And they wish you good luck.

That's been my experience.

They don't create as much lift so, my arms get tired quicker.

The idiot bitch TSA cunt at MCI who seemed to think that I was going to grab my Benelli shotgun out of the case and start cracking off rounds at all the passengers in the terminal.

She actually threw up an arm to push me back when I approached the case with my keys to unlock for their inspection.

Read this, print this, and take a copy with you because the TSA people don't know their own rules.

TSA rules for firearms

There is a 5kg (11lb) ammo limit.  It's not a TSA rule though - it's from some other .gov agency I think.  Some airlines enforce, some don't know.  I've heard of partial boxes of ammo being confiscated, full boxes are fine  

It used to be that the locks could not be TSA locks (i.e. the requirement that only you can have the means to unlock the case), but some people use TSA locks and have not had a problem.  I've read where the TSA rules have been changed to allow the use of TSA locks - I wouldn't myself.  I don't want them opening up and playing with my guns if I'm not present.

Just make sure that you have a quality case. I was flying back to KC from Jacksonville on Southwest and the desk agent very thoroughly checked to make sure that she couldn't get my case open. She was nice about it, but she was pretty adamant that a flimsy case would not do. It was a pelican case so I wasn't too worried.

All in all it was a pretty stress free experience, aside from connecting in Chicago. I worried (in vain) about that a bit.

The only problems I have encountered, if you want to call them that, is how they will delivered to you upon arrival. In some instances I was directed to oversize baggage claim areas to pick up my rifle case, and I had to show ID with my baggage receipt, other times the rifle case came out on the baggage carousel just as all the other baggage. My luggage containing handguns always came out on the carousel.

My advice is ask at the departing location if they know how delivery will be made at your destination, and if they aren't sure, don't dilly dally around after getting off the plane, get down to the baggage claim immediately.

.223 ammo was left in my PMags with a cover, my handgun ammo was in original boxes. Limit is 11 or 12 lbs of ammo. Also, if you have handguns in a locked container within another piece of luggage, go get some TSA approved locks to lock that piece of luggage from the outside.

I have done this about 10 times in 15 years.

The desk agent gave me the wrong form.  It was the flying with a firearm in the cabin for LEO form, not the Unloaded Firearm Declaration.  She had to call her supervisor over, took them a few minutes to figure out they were out of forms, and open a new pack.

A "lost" bag one time.  I was thinking dang is this theft.  I was one of the first to the belt (weapon was a handgun).  Took a bit over an hour to find my bag.  It along with 10 or so other bags fell of the machinery in the back.

I did notice that TSA put a cross hash red mark on everyone's bag but mine, the TSA employe put a very small and very neat long red mark along one edge of mine.  I looked at his name tag and said, "Thank You Frank".  Then made some notes on his description and time of day.  It was enough out of the normal for what I observed that day that I thought, he just marked my bag for theft.  My bag came out with nothing missing on the other end.

Check with Alaska Airlines if they fly to your destination.  Years ago talk was that they would let you take any amount of ammo as long as you paid for a heavy bag.  I am not sure if this is still the case.

Check with your hotel and training facility if they will accept a shipment of ammo for you.  You might be able to ship your ammo to your training.  Also be prepared to ship your ammo back to yourself, or your gear.  It might save you a bit of money.

SIDE NOTE: Be ready to ship your gear home, a few years back I dislocated my shoulder during training.  NIGHTMARE!!!  How the heck do I get this stuff home and myself.  I was at the training alone.  The rest of the day was, Drive to Hospital, Reset Shoulder with a polite No Drugs Please, Doc I need to catch a flight, driving like crazy to get back out to the facility, get my gear, then back to the airport.

Personal experience:  Some airports will route obvious gun cases to oversize luggage pickup but will not tell you they did so.



Friend's experience:  Make sure your case is sturdy, his pistol case was pried open enough that someone got his SIG 238 out of it, it's never been recovered.



Some people have said to lock your gun case with a non-TSA lock but have your luggage locked with a TSA lock.  I've never had problems locking both with non-TSA locks, I HAVE been asked to hand the keys to the TSA agents so they could check them in my presence on one occasion, on another, I opened everything so the TSA agent could swab for explosives (and he explained that the wipes he was using would NOT trigger off of smokeless powder).

Uninformed baggage/check in people.   Argued with the continental people about locked cases in a locked bag, turned out no big deal the person on the phone was way wrong.  

The process being different in different airports.  In my airport they have you sign the red tag, give them a verbal on if it's unloaded, lock it. Away you go.  They will call you back if needed.  In Denver, I had to red tag it, show clear, then wait for someone to walk me to the TSA scanner.  Then wait in line to be scanned (busy day I guess both times but I saw a lot of storm cases).  Wait them to scan it, get the thumbs up, go on my way.  Took way longer than my airport.

No major issues so far.  (I've had a few 'wtf' comments and a few 'dude, that's so cool' comments from airline employees.)  I print out a copy of the relevant section of TSA's website as well as the airline's website and stick them in my pocket just in case.  Follow the rules, be ready for people not knowing their jobs, and use a really sturdy case.

I was flying out to a 3-gun match and some guy was walking past as TSA was checking my gun case.  He starts laughing like an idiot, he thought I was caught trying to smuggle 3-guns onto the airplane.  He shut up when the TSA agent said "thanks you're all set" and my case was put on the conveyer belt.

An aiport that had a secure area I could not enter so TSA took my key and left for like 30 minutes.  TSA supervisor said he understood law about not letting go of my key but they had no way around it.

So pretty much nothing bad except for a bit of a delay.

Great info, fellas. Thanks!!

anybody have any insight when flying out of newark/nyc airports?

I've only flown once w/ guns, and it was handguns for training.  Flew out of KCI (MCI).  The bright yellow and orange cable locks running through the actions were deemed insufficient evidence of being unloaded.  So, I awkwardly picked up my handguns out of the hard case and racked them several times in the airport.  At that point, I was given the bright orange tag.  Since my hard case fit inside my luggage, I was able to pick everything up at the regular baggage claim terminals.  



No problems flying back from Las Vegas.
I can't wait until I fly with my silencers (legally firearms) and see what they want me to do to prove they are unloaded.

It was very annoying.  I was expecting any hassles to be TSA related.  The TSA folks were polite talked guns and while they didn't say anything (they were with in earshot of the whole thing) gave me that sorry dude look as I walked up.

Trying to think, here.  I've flown with guns out of Salt Lake, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Denver, Kansas City, St. Louis, Atlanta, Chicago (I think it was Midway, can't comment on O'hare), Kalispel, and Grand Rapids.  Maybe a couple of others.  Never really had any issues.  I had the bomb sniffer swab go off once in Atlanta.  They just had me pop the case open and they dug through it to make sure there wasn't anything there that would go "boom".  (the boxes of smaller stuff that goes "bang" was apparently okay.)  I'm surprised I've never had enough gunpowder residue on the case to have set it off previously.  Hasn't been an issue before or since that one trip.  

It seems every airport does things just a little differently.  I like the ones that have the TSA scanners out front where you take them up right after you check in with the airline folks.  That way, you can wait right there if they want you to open the case.  It beats the one where it disappears down the conveyor belt, and they end up paging you 20 minutes later (and invariably just after you get through the metal detectors).

Also, it's been several years since I've had a ticket agent want me to demonstrate that a gun was unloaded.  Most of the time they just want the little orange card signed and into the case as quickly as possible.  Some request that I turn the case such that the rest of the sheeple won't get a look at what's inside.  

Shortly after the TSA was formed and they had just started scanning everyone's checked bags, I was at one airport and found you could position yourself by the end of the ticket counter and see the X-Ray monitors as they ran your bag through.  I got a good look as they ran may case through where I could see the gun, mags (springs were readily visible) and the neat little rows of circles that were the boxes off ammo.  The next time I flew out of there, I was going to try to get a picture of the screen.  But by then they had rearranged things so you couldn't see any more.  Recently I flew with a fully loaded Beta C mag in my case.  That would have been a neat X-Ray to see.

It's kind of fun watching the expression on the TSA folks face as they are watching the monitor.  You see them start with a bored expression, then they perk up and sit up straight, often getting a grin.  "Hey, that's pretty neat!  We don't get a lot of those through here. Is that an Uzi or a MAC10?"

I understand the idea of not wanting a case that screams "GUN" to everyone that sees it.  Any case with big non-TSA locks probably says "gun" to many people as well.  Some people like to put a pistol case inside an otherwise normal-looking suitcase.  I tend to go the other way.  I want something that is big and obnoxious and too large to miss.  The issue I have with the gun case inside a suitcase is that the baggage tracking tag is on the suitcase.  If the suitcase were to be opened (by accident or otherwise) and the gun case came out, nobody would know where or when it was separated from the suitcase.  They track by the baggage tag, which is still in place on your outer suitcase.  If they come up one baggage tag short, they start backtracking until they find it.  I want the luggage tracking tag on my gun case, so the gun case is the one being tracked.  I've gone so far as to pack clothes in half of a rifle case when transporting smaller guns, and use that as my "suitcase".  

More often than not, my case does not come out the luggage carousel when I arrive at the other end.  The obvious gun case gets hand-carried to the luggage office where I have to show ID or my claim tag to pick it up.  And I'm just fine with that.

Thanks for all the replies.  I made notes and printed some stuff out, so I can be fully prepared for any possible hiccups.

The only problem I've had was my own doing.





I checked my carry gun from Tampa to Chattanooga.  No problem.





Checked it in at the Chattanooga airport for the return trip.  Forgot the spare mag in my carry-on backpack.  Problem...





Since it wasn't 'artfully concealed' they did everything to hurry the process and get me on the plane.  I ended up abandoning the mag, and had to get fingerprinted, fill out the forms, etc.



Lesson learned?



Checklist

Checklist

Checklist

Everything went well.  I had absolutely zero issues.  It went a helluva lot smoother than I thought it would.

Flew to and from Sitka (Ak) airport via Sea-Tac witha Glock 35. I had to store the mags separately, the cartridges had to be stored in the mags, and the mags were duct-taped together.  The Glock was in  a locked case, empty, of course. I was nervous, but confidently declared my firearm. Pretty smooth, actually.

All depends on the airport and the size of your case.  I've flown out of Atlanta, Salt Lake City, and Dulles, each airport had their own procedures, and they've changed over time.  Atlanta, with just a pistol case, they had a special screening station, I handed them keys to check my bag manually.  ATL and SLC with a large rifle case (and pistol case inside my other checked bag), I took my bags to the oversized luggage office where a TSA official had me open them so he could swab them for explosives, then once I locked them back up, they carried them off.  Dulles was the least used to transporting weapons and inadvertently sent me to a quick screening station, but the TSA folks there handled everything fine.



 

I hear that. I researched flying with guns before doing so.

I had two AR rifles and three handguns, plus mags, gear, etc. Was flying Minneapolis Intl to Phoenix to attend Front Sight courses. Not only was the process smooth as hell, with only a slight inconvenience in Phoenix, but flying with firearms was actually a great conversation started with everyone I encountered. They were truly interested, like getting to see how a whole different type of person lives. Maybe almost everyone in the US secretly wants firearms to some degree.

I was expecting fat, lazy black dudes and women for TSA agents. In Minn Intl they were physically fit white dudes who were attentive, professional, and friendly. The Delta airline dude at check in asked if I was a Sig rep, since one had just come through with cases of guns I guess. Although, when it went through the Xray, one of the TSA dudes did come around a little surprised looking, asking "Was there supposed to be a rifle in there??"

Whole experience was good. Only thing I'd change is not using plastic zip ties with TSA padlocks. When I claimed my bag the zip tie was freely sliding. I wasn't aware how easy zip ties are to defeat without cutting.



THE TAKEAWAY INFO-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, lead wire SEALS and non-TSA locks are a must!

Make sure all the gun gear is in the check case.

Make sure the case meets THAT airlines check baggage measurements and weight or you'll pay dearly.

Declare firearms at the check in counter.

I'm going back to CSAT this year for Paul's Tac Rifle 1 course.  I can't wait to go back and now I know that the "gun thing" is a big thing, afterall.  Lol.