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Posted: 7/5/2022 2:52:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So is the background check for purchasing a firearm conducted by the NYSP. Are they actually doing the NICS check as well? I thought Vermont tried that and it didn't work? Or is this just a step beyond after the NICS check? Some states conduct their own checks and don't use the NICS system They also seem to charge for the state background check where the NICS check is no charge. |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 3:11:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some states conduct their own checks and don't use the NICS system They also seem to charge for the state background check where the NICS check is no charge. Can an FFL even legally give a 4473 to the State Police? |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 3:43:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Also now that Muzzle Loaders are "rifles" and rifles are banned from state parks and museums what does that mean for reenactors?
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Posted: 7/5/2022 7:16:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can an FFL even legally give a 4473 to the State Police? Who said anything about giving the state police the 4473? |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 7:34:39 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who said anything about giving the state police the 4473? Quote HistoryQuoted: Who said anything about giving the state police the 4473? The way I read this the NYSP will now conduct the NICS check. Maybe they don't need the 4473 for that. 16. The executive law is amended by adding a new section 228 to read as follows: § 228. NATIONAL INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECKS. 1. (A) THE DIVI- SION IS HEREBY AUTHORIZED AND DIRECTED TO SERVE AS A STATE POINT OF CONTACT FOR IMPLEMENTATION OF 18 U.S.C. SEC. 922 (T), ALL FEDERAL REGU- LATIONS AND APPLICABLE GUIDELINES ADOPTED PURSUANT THERETO, AND THE NATIONAL INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM FOR THE PURCHASE OF FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION. (B) UPON RECEIVING A REQUEST FROM A LICENSED DEALER PURSUANT TO SECTION EIGHT HUNDRED NINETY-SIX OR EIGHT HUNDRED NINETY-EIGHT OF THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, THE DIVISION SHALL INITIATE A BACKGROUND CHECK BY (I) CONTACTING THE NATIONAL INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM (NICS) OR ITS SUCCESSOR TO INITIATE A NATIONAL INSTANT CRIMINAL BACK- GROUND CHECK, AND (II) CONSULTING THE STATEWIDE FIREARMS LICENSE AND RECORDS DATABASE ESTABLISHED PURSUANT TO SUBDIVISION THREE OF THIS SECTION, IN ORDER TO DETERMINE IF THE PURCHASER IS A PERSON DESCRIBED IN SECTIONS 400.00 AND 400.03 OF THE PENAL LAW, OR IS PROHIBITED BY STATE OR FEDERAL LAW FROM POSSESSING, RECEIVING, OWNING, OR PURCHASING A FIREARM OR AMMUNITION. |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 7:36:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Spoke to a very liberal reenactor acquaintance today about no muzzle loaders in state parks or museums this was her response.
Yeah we have been working with local legislators and attorneys to make sure that historic sites and reenactors are being accounted for. It was a very rushed bill and I think that it just didn't cross their minds. I have a feeling that there wouldn't be any mass shootings witha muzzle loader anyhow..... |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 7:38:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Spoke to a very liberal reenactor acquaintance today about no muzzle loaders in state parks or museums this was her response. In for the muzzle loader exemption. Maybe it's time to dust of that old Kentucky cap and ball... 
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Posted: 7/5/2022 8:12:05 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The way I read this the NYSP will now conduct the NICS check. Maybe they don't need the 4473 for that. There are already states that rely on their own background check system instead of NICS. If NYS stands up their own system it would have to be compliant with whatever standards the feds have for other states that do their own background check. Also as I said earlier the state background check will likely come with a fee unlike the NICS check I'm also willing to bet that the state system will have fewer hours of operation. No more late night transfers benefiting from the west coast and their gun shops being three time zones behind us |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 8:32:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are already states that rely on their own background check system instead of NICS. If NYS stands up their own system it would have to be compliant with whatever standards the feds have for other states that do their own background check. Also as I said earlier the state background check will likely come with a fee unlike the NICS check I'm also willing to bet that the state system will have fewer hours of operation. No more late night transfers benefiting from the west coast and their gun shops being three time zones behind us They specifically say the National Instant background Check but who knows not like the people who wrote this knew what they were doing. |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 9:07:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In for the muzzle loader exemption. Maybe it's time to dust of that old Kentucky cap and ball... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Spoke to a very liberal reenactor acquaintance today about no muzzle loaders in state parks or museums this was her response. In for the muzzle loader exemption. Maybe it's time to dust of that old Kentucky cap and ball... Get in line.  https://mobile.twitter.com/EliseStefanik/status/1544473571661078528/photo/1 |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 9:19:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Spoke to a very liberal reenactor acquaintance today about no muzzle loaders in state parks or museums this was her response. In for the muzzle loader exemption. Maybe it's time to dust of that old Kentucky cap and ball... Get in line. https://mobile.twitter.com/EliseStefanik/status/1544473571661078528/photo/1  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 10:08:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Spoke to a very liberal reenactor acquaintance today about no muzzle loaders in state parks or museums this was her response. In for the muzzle loader exemption. Maybe it's time to dust of that old Kentucky cap and ball... Get in line. https://mobile.twitter.com/EliseStefanik/status/1544473571661078528/photo/1 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/140266/1_JPG-2442959.JPG The Adirondack Park is not actually a park, nor is it a state park. It is a state forest preserve. Guns are not banned there. |
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Posted: 7/5/2022 10:12:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Adirondack Park is not actually a park, nor is it a state park. It is a state forest preserve. Guns are not banned there. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Spoke to a very liberal reenactor acquaintance today about no muzzle loaders in state parks or museums this was her response. In for the muzzle loader exemption. Maybe it's time to dust of that old Kentucky cap and ball... Get in line. https://mobile.twitter.com/EliseStefanik/status/1544473571661078528/photo/1 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/140266/1_JPG-2442959.JPG The Adirondack Park is not actually a park, nor is it a state park. It is a state forest preserve. Guns are not banned there. I know. I could also care less; I will always be hunting regardless of interpretation. I was just quoting and posting the from info above. I am sure it's more or less an attempt to enrage the law-abiding gun owner fudds who don't actually follow the info we follow. |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 6:59:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Didn't they try to use NICS for the ammo database and were told no by the feds hence why it was never implemented?
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Posted: 7/6/2022 9:12:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't they try to use NICS for the ammo database and were told no by the feds hence why it was never implemented? Yes, which is why they want to tack the ammo tax onto ammo sales to fund the state level background check |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 9:14:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, which is why they want to tack the ammo tax onto ammo sales to fund the state level background check Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Didn't they try to use NICS for the ammo database and were told no by the feds hence why it was never implemented? Yes, which is why they want to tack the ammo tax onto ammo sales to fund the state level background check I just bought another $1,000 of ammo |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 9:24:58 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just bought another $1,000 of ammo Me too.  Finally found some 30-06 ammo in reasonable quantality. Never going to go into hunting season wondering if I have enough again. It was scarce as hens teeth. Also picked up some other pistol ammo now that it is more available and may need for training  . Had one new pistol I didn't have any ammo for. I hate when that happens. 
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Posted: 7/7/2022 9:22:00 AM EDT
[#18]
No longer a resident but I'm there a lot - we need to be on the ass of any entity with a legislative action branch to be filing injunctions and getting most of this tossed.
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Posted: 7/10/2022 6:33:39 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about you just get a carry license, then take it upon yourself to just practice, or pay for training if you can afford it. State mandated training is bs. Also...shooting a pistol at usual sd distances (7 yards) isn't exactly rocket surgery. I was doing it when I was 7 years old. Not surprising that the Long Island instructor (who will be making money off it) featured in the Newsday article yesterday says he supports it. |
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Posted: 7/11/2022 12:48:15 AM EDT
[#20]
There needs to be severe repercussions of passing unconstitutional laws. This throwing shit at the wall and infringing on peoples rights until the courts sort it out is bullshit.
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Posted: 7/12/2022 1:59:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There needs to be severe repercussions of passing unconstitutional laws. This throwing shit at the wall and infringing on peoples rights until the courts sort it out is bullshit. |
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Posted: 7/12/2022 4:52:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not surprising that the Long Island instructor (who will be making money off it) featured in the Newsday article yesterday says he supports it. There's always a Kapo trying to justify their willingness to go along for profit.
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Posted: 7/13/2022 12:07:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Speaking of carve outs:
Page 18 Line 15 3. "This section shall not apply to:" Page 19 Line 1 (f) "Active-duty military personnel" There is no mention of the typical "while in the course of duty." Again, this shit came from Sorrose minions who really have no idea wtf they're writing about. |
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Posted: 7/13/2022 12:17:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The way I read this the NYSP will now conduct the NICS check. Maybe they don't need the 4473 for that. The SP won't need the physical 4473 as all the information is transferred when it's called in. |
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Posted: 7/13/2022 12:22:27 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Me too. Finally found some 30-06 ammo in reasonable quantality. Never going to go into hunting season wondering if I have enough again. It was scarce as hens teeth. Also picked up some other pistol ammo now that it is more available and may need for training . Had one new pistol I didn't have any ammo for. I hate when that happens. Dollar a round has been the going rate for years, then it went to two, and now three dollars a round and big/magnum stuff as much as five dollars a round. |
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Posted: 7/13/2022 8:31:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Hochul's new law requires the State Police to do all NCIS checks for gun purchases and now all ammo purchases. It also amended section 99-pp of the state finance law to read as follows:
Section 99-pp. Background check fund. 1. There is hereby established in the joint custody of the state comptroller and commissioner of taxation and finance a special fund to be known as the "background check fund". 2. Such fund shall consist of all revenues received by the comptroller, pursuant to the provisions of section two hundred twenty-eight of the executive law Executive Law Section 228 5. (a) Each licensed dealer that submits a request for a national instant criminal background check pursuant to this section shall pay a fee imposed by the bureau for performing such background check. So the State Police are going to collect a fee for each NCIS check they do. I'm sure it will be a small fee and never go up. |
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Posted: 7/13/2022 9:13:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hochul's new law requires the State Police to do all NCIS checks for gun purchases and now all ammo purchases. It also amended section 99-pp of the state finance law to read as follows: Section 99-pp. Background check fund. 1. There is hereby established in the joint custody of the state comptroller and commissioner of taxation and finance a special fund to be known as the "background check fund". 2. Such fund shall consist of all revenues received by the comptroller, pursuant to the provisions of section two hundred twenty-eight of the executive law Executive Law Section 228 5. (a) Each licensed dealer that submits a request for a national instant criminal background check pursuant to this section shall pay a fee imposed by the bureau for performing such background check. So the State Police are going to collect a fee for each NCIS check they do. I'm sure it will be a small fee and never go up. This is the problem with people who don't know how the system works writing the law. The police can not do a NICS check. Only and FFL can do a NICS check. Now the SP may do some other check but it won't be NICS. Also there is no provision in NICS that I am aware of for AMMO or Muzzle loaders. This was the problem with the ammo law before. I can't imagine the SP have the capacity to do all of these background checks or they will have one person doing it and it will take months to purchase a gun. I doubt most if any of this survives. It just isn't possible. |
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Posted: 7/13/2022 10:44:00 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is the problem with people who don't know how the system works writing the law. The police can not do a NICS check. Only and FFL can do a NICS check. Now the SP may do some other check but it won't be NICS. Also there is no provision in NICS that I am aware of for AMMO or Muzzle loaders. This was the problem with the ammo law before. I can't imagine the SP have the capacity to do all of these background checks or they will have one person doing it and it will take months to purchase a gun. I doubt most if any of this survives. It just isn't possible. There's other states that do their own version of the instant check. NY will surely try to emulate those states will magically find that the fee they initially set will be inadequate to fund the program. I bet by the time they're done they'll be hitting the gun buyers with a $20 fee. It will be both punitive and a cash cow for the state Of course the state won't jump through the hoops needed to make a permit an exemption to the background check because they'll want the cash flow |
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Posted: 7/13/2022 10:55:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bet by the time they're done they'll be hitting the gun buyers with a $20 fee. Not just gun buyers, ammo buyers are now also required to get a background check. What's another $20 for a box of ammo. |
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Posted: 7/13/2022 10:59:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The police can not do a NICS check. Only and FFL can do a NICS check. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/25.6 POC = Point of Contact 13 states already do their own checks as POC through the NICS. The FFL will send the request to the State Police (POC) and the State Police will send to NICS. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:17:13 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/25.6 POC = Point of Contact 13 states already do their own checks as POC through the NICS. The FFL will send the request to the State Police (POC) and the State Police will send to NICS. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 11:31:57 AM EDT
[#32]
FFLs turning over 4473 copies to the NYSP every 6 months was passed in the laws back in May
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Posted: 7/14/2022 12:38:42 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FFLs turning over 4473 copies to the NYSP every 6 months was passed in the laws back in May Is THAT legal? @nolocontendere |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 12:54:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is THAT legal? @nolocontendere Is registering guns legal? Is any of this legal? Do they even care? |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 1:53:27 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is registering guns legal? Is any of this legal? Do they even care? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is THAT legal? @nolocontendere Is registering guns legal? Is any of this legal? Do they even care? Amen brother, amen. |
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Posted: 7/14/2022 2:32:20 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is registering guns legal? Is any of this legal? Do they even care? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is THAT legal? @nolocontendere Is registering guns legal? Is any of this legal? Do they even care? Well the feds told NY to fuck off on using NICS for the ammo registry. If there is a federal law or regulation that prohibits accessing 4473s not part of a criminal investigation, yeah it might be a problem. There are things you are going to win on easier than others. States encroaching on fed turf can be one of those you prevail on because the feds don't like not being the big swinging dick. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 2:42:48 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well the feds told NY to fuck off on using NICS for the ammo registry. If there is a federal law or regulation that prohibits accessing 4473s not part of a criminal investigation, yeah it might be a problem. There are things you are going to win on easier than others. States encroaching on fed turf can be one of those you prevail on because the feds don't like not being the big swinging dick. I thought reading through the Law that it said "records" of Dispositions and did not specify 4473's Which is a Federal Form, required by the BATFE to be retained by the Dealer along with a Bound Book on the Licensee's premises, and shipped to the ATF when a Dealer ceases operations. I wouldn't be surprised if the State required a P-12 or revised version to be submitted, maybe the State will generate their own Forms that have to be filled out, photocopies, fuck who knows besides the asshats in Albany that were blindsided with new mandates from a dysfunctional Legislature that has no clue to the workings of the Firearms Industry. Once again we have NYS trying to override the well established and perfunctory standards and methods just to show who has the bigger dick. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 6:42:06 AM EDT
[#38]
NYSP oversee dealers just like the Fed's. We can't sell handguns or ammo or standard cap mags without that state dealers license. ABd the NYSP can stop by and look over your records as often as they want, not the generally annual visit you get from the ATF guys
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Posted: 7/15/2022 11:37:45 AM EDT
[#39]
Rockland County Clerk still dragging her feet and putting off formal notification to current pistol holders of any type license. Remember that even holders of "sportsman" licenses passed the same requirements as unrestricted holders, they were just denied carry under the state law that was found unconstitutional. In effect, that makes all license holders de facto unrestricted license holders.
The clerk also won't accept any formal petitions to judges for removal of restrictions until they sort this out. Go ahead, clerk. Just tell us we're grandfathered. We know that's the only legal recourse. Overall, it's becoming ripe for a lawsuit. Oh yeah, and the county executive who is super serious he supports your Second Amendment rights and never misses a chance to speak into a microphone, hasn't said a word. YMMV |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 12:12:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rockland County Clerk still dragging her feet and putting off formal notification to current pistol holders of any type license. Remember that even holders of "sportsman" licenses passed the same requirements as unrestricted holders, they were just denied carry under the state law that was found unconstitutional. In effect, that makes all license holders de facto unrestricted license holders. The clerk also won't accept any formal petitions to judges for removal of restrictions until they sort this out. Go ahead, clerk. Just tell us we're grandfathered. We know that's the only legal recourse. Overall, it's becoming ripe for a lawsuit. Oh yeah, and the county executive who is super serious he supports your Second Amendment rights and never misses a chance to speak into a microphone, hasn't said a word. YMMV @nolocontendere |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 12:38:07 PM EDT
[#41]
Ignore. Restrictions.
If you were issued a restricted carry permit...it's a full carry permit now. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 12:39:12 PM EDT
[#42]
On behalf of a friend I have written a formal request pursuant to Bruen to the NYPD for an upgrade of a restricted permit to an unrestricted carry. They have received it.. now we wait.
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Posted: 7/15/2022 12:46:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On behalf of a friend I have written a formal request pursuant to Bruen to the NYPD for an upgrade of a restricted permit to an unrestricted carry. They have received it.. now we wait. Did your friend have a business carry? Or a premise? I assume business carry. Can you write me a letter requesting validation of my upstate carry permit for NYC? I'd rather not have to apply for a NYC permit! I mean PL400 deems NYC as off limits for carry...which is exactly the example Thomas gave as something they can't do. So...do I really have to apply for their super special permit?  |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 1:19:36 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ignore. Restrictions. If you were issued a restricted carry permit...it's a full carry permit now. ...until September 1st. Then it's useless. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 1:53:13 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...until September 1st. Then it's useless. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ignore. Restrictions. If you were issued a restricted carry permit...it's a full carry permit now. ...until September 1st. Then it's useless. Let's hope for an injunction. If you look at these laws with text history and tradition, there were no analogous laws in the late 1700s that banned carry basically anywhere. I think there were some fire code type laws back then that banned black powder in some town areas, but that's not valid anymore with smokeless powder. And of course you heard of a couple small wild wild west towns where the sheriff banned guns...but that was FAR from the norm...and definitely not in keeping with history or tradition of gun laws during or shortly after the drafting of the 2nd. |
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Posted: 7/15/2022 3:38:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did your friend have a business carry? Or a premise? I assume business carry. Can you write me a letter requesting validation of my upstate carry permit for NYC? I'd rather not have to apply for a NYC permit! I mean PL400 deems NYC as off limits for carry...which is exactly the example Thomas gave as something they can't do. So...do I really have to apply for their super special permit? https://i.imgur.com/0Esnrsx.png He had a restricted carry: 20 hours 7 days a week that was downgraded to a premise permit during the recent inquisition that reduced, by half, the number of nyc carry permits. It was a simple letter, clear and to the point, essentially: "Consistent with the decision in Bruen, which requires the department to rescind restrictions on issuing or limiting full carry pistol licenses, I am respectfully requesting the conversion of my premise permit to an unrestricted carry permit without delay." The question whether future NYS licenses will be good in NYC will probably require a court challenge as will a denial of an upgrade request. Procedurally, it should go directly to the federal district court. I probably will take a pass on leading a court challenge, or formally representing carry upgrade requests, not because I don't believe they will succeed, but because there are practitioners out there who have considerable experience with 2A matters and are more capable than I. The law is similar to medicine and it makes sense to go to a specialist if you have a specialized problem. good luck and keep us posted, I will do the same... |
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Posted: 7/16/2022 7:51:02 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...until September 1st. Then it's useless. Negative. It is good until "recertification". Then, (provided certain circumstances apply to you) before "recertification" you only have to complete the training. Many counties have already made applicants meet most of the other requirements. Point of fact, many also have some "training", just not the unconstitutional 16 hours + live fire. By the way, raise your hand if you don't have 2 hours of live fire under your belt. |
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Posted: 7/16/2022 8:17:37 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Negative. It is good until "recertification". Then, (provided certain circumstances apply to you) before "recertification" you only have to complete the training. Many counties have already made applicants meet most of the other requirements. Point of fact, many also have some "training", just not the unconstitutional 16 hours + live fire. By the way, raise your hand if you don't have 2 hours of live fire under your belt. I believe his point was with regard to all the "sensitive places" bullshit in the new law which basically prohibits carry almost everywhere unless you want to risk an E felony. |
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Posted: 7/16/2022 8:36:49 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dollar a round has been the going rate for years, then it went to two, and now three dollars a round and big/magnum stuff as much as five dollars a round. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Me too. Finally found some 30-06 ammo in reasonable quantality. Never going to go into hunting season wondering if I have enough again. It was scarce as hens teeth. Also picked up some other pistol ammo now that it is more available and may need for training . Had one new pistol I didn't have any ammo for. I hate when that happens. Dollar a round has been the going rate for years, then it went to two, and now three dollars a round and big/magnum stuff as much as five dollars a round. Time to join the reloading sub forum. |
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Posted: 7/16/2022 8:37:33 AM EDT
[#50]
The entire bill is unconstitutional dog shit, and they know it. It's mostly written and co-sponsored by people with the worst crime issues in the state or their lackeys and signed by a governor nobody voted for. It's a purposeful distraction using legal gun owners as a diversion from the real issues, just like abortion, to keep the people in NY who vote Democrat like it's a team sport on their "team", to everyone's detriment. Meanwhile most of the people who have been filling the tax coffers are leaving, the fiscal situation is getting worse, the schools are deteriorating and communities are being destroyed. Just to name a few.
But you go, NY Legislature, Senate and Pretend Governor. You go tell 'em that legal gun owners are the problem. You let people know they don't have a right to fight back. While criminals (who keep getting released from jail and face no consequences) are shooting right outside their window and mugging them on the way to get the few groceries they can afford. /rant |
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