User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 10:42:04 AM EDT
[#1]
Preliminary reports seem to suggest it is text history and tradition... Rejecting the two step approach that lower courts have been using.
So better than strict scrutiny. Opening the door to challenging everything New York has done. Nationwide shall issue at least. Even in NYC. fuck. yes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 10:48:39 AM EDT
[#2]
Spank.
But doesn’t go far enough .. denial of people rights should be automatic life in jail for theses people also.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 10:50:29 AM EDT
[#3]
I'm guessing in a state like New York where the permits are already carry permits albeit with restrictions...this means those restrictions are basically gone???
I don't have restricted carry permit but many people I know do. In a state like New Jersey where they don't even issue carry permits I'm assuming people will have to reapply for a carry permit but they cannot be denied? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 10:52:55 AM EDT
[#4]
Strict Scrutiny
 Happy Birthday Justice Thomas!! Fuck You All Commie Scum! |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 10:55:12 AM EDT
[#5]
does this effectively make Ny "Shall Issue" at this point? Or is it more nuanced?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 10:55:49 AM EDT
[#6]
So we can carry now, right?
 |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 10:56:08 AM EDT
[#7]
Hochul is giving a press conference right now promising to add all kinds of new rules to the pistol permit system. Shocker
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:00:21 AM EDT
[#8]
This should blow out the SAFE act, and does that mean we have constitutional carry now? Need someone smarter than me to break this down.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:00:28 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hochul is giving a press conference right now promising to add all kinds of new rules to the pistol permit system. Shocker I turned 60 today and I seriously doubt I will see a resolution in my lifetime. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:01:08 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So we can carry now, right? If you have a restricted "carry" permit...yes. You can now carry. That's what this decision is saying...but I'm no lawyer. So... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:01:38 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hochul is giving a press conference right now promising to add all kinds of new rules to the pistol permit system. Shocker The Commie Slut is just a mumbling fool, Strict Scrutiny & Rejecting the two step approach bullshit really screwed up all the commie infringements, Justice Thomas really came through here. It seems like this ruling killed UnSafe also! Now lets see what it is going to take to prevent the NY commies from showing their true colors & just ignoring SCOTUS? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:03:47 AM EDT
[#12]
"Nothing in the Second Amendment’s text draws a home/public distinction with respect to the right to keep and bear arms, and the definition of “bear” naturally encompasses public carry. Moreover, the Second Amendment guarantees an “individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation,” id., at 592, and confrontation can surely take place outside the home" -Thomas
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:07:11 AM EDT
[#13]
A bit of sunshine peeks through the NY gun rights gloom.
 |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:10:19 AM EDT
[#14]
Also thank you President Trump!
The vote was 6 to 3. Think how this would have went if Hildabeast had replaced those SCOTUS seats. Another face slap to the nevertrumpers! |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:11:33 AM EDT
[#15]
So if they make the pistol permit process have more rules, wouldn't that filter over to buying semi-autos when that law kicks in (if it even can now
 )
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:14:41 AM EDT
[#16]
Wow...there goes Hochuls idea of making everywhere a restricted place...
But expanding the category of “sensitive places” simply to all places of public congregation that are not isolated from law enforcement defines the cat- egory of “sensitive places” far too broadly. Respondents’ ar- gument would in effect exempt cities from the Second Amendment and would eviscerate the general right to pub- licly carry arms for self-defense that we discuss in detail below. See Part III–B, infra. Put simply, there is no his- torical basis for New York to effectively declare the island of Manhattan a “sensitive place” simply because it is crowded and protected generally by the New York City Po- lice Department. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:20:33 AM EDT
[#17]
I know it's going to take a lawsuit to confirm but do we think this means upstate permits are valid in New York City?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:20:40 AM EDT
[#18]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:29:12 AM EDT
[#19]
No, I do not think this ruling makes restricted permits now unrestricted, or allows people with upstate permits to carry in NYC. Fee free to challenge that as we need to confirm and challenge if it doesn’t.
You will still be required to jump through the hoops, take additional training, submit your references, etc. it just meant that they can’t deny you based on your stated purpose for wanting to carry concealed. Eta: for some upstate counties this ruling has no effect. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:30:50 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know it's going to take a lawsuit to confirm but do we think this means upstate permits are valid in New York City? Quote HistoryQuoted: I know it's going to take a lawsuit to confirm but do we think this means upstate permits are valid in New York City? More importantly is there severability in Sullivan? What does severability mean in law? A contract provision that keeps the remaining portions of the contract in force should a court declare one or more of its provisions unconstitutional, void, or unenforceable. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/severability_clause From the opinion on (pdf) page 8 In 1911, New York’s “Sullivan Law” expanded the State’s criminal prohibition to the possession of all handguns—concealed or otherwise—without a government-issued license. See 1911 N. Y. Laws ch. 195, §1, p. 443. New York later amended the Sullivan Law to clarify the licensing standard: Magistrates could “issue to [a] person a license to have and carry concealed a pistol or revolver without regard to employment or place of possessing such weapon” only if that person proved “good moral character” and “proper cause.” 1913 N. Y. Laws ch. 608, §1, p. 1629. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:35:32 AM EDT
[#21]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:36:36 AM EDT
[#22]
Looks like you'll still need a permit to buy and possess a pistol. I think carry permits will be shall issue. Permit applications will be accepted in person only Wednesdays between 5 and 5:15 am at the new pistol permit office in Champlain on the Canadian border. It will require 5 visits to the Champlain office. 1 to pick up an application, 1 to drop it off, 1 to be fingerprinted, 1 for your interview and lastly to pick up your permit. The permit will expire annually and will need to be renewed with the above 5 visits to the permit office.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:37:25 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, I do not think this ruling makes restricted permits now unrestricted, or allows people with upstate permits to carry in NYC. Fee free to challenge that as we need to confirm and challenge if it doesn’t. You will still be required to jump through the hoops, take additional training, submit your references, etc. it just meant that they can’t deny you based on your stated purpose for wanting to carry concealed. Eta: for some upstate counties this ruling has no effect. But a restricted permit is simply a full carry permit that was (NOW) unconstitutionally restricted. So I do think NY is special in this case...it's not like NJ who issues premise only permits. In NJ they will have to re-apply for a carry permit. NYers already have a carry permit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:37:59 AM EDT
[#24]
Holy shit with this though...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:41:18 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryHow could any gun restriction exits after reading this? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:46:42 AM EDT
[#26]
I’m happy but also know NY will try to weasel their way out of anything.
I would like the SAFE Act to be the next to go, better not take another hundred years… |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:48:24 AM EDT
[#27]
So be me.
No pistol permit. What does this change for when I do apply now? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 11:53:21 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So be me. No pistol permit. What does this change for when I do apply now? You don't have to provide grounds to justify being given a carry permit and be subject to the whims of some county court judge.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 12:11:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How could any gun restriction exits after reading this? That is the modus operandi these days. Since there is absolutely no penalty against legislatures or legislators who willfully write unconstitutional laws, it is a simple matter to keep passing them and get the benefit of them being in force for many years until some court strikes them down. How many times has a court put a hold on a gun control law pending resolution in the courts? I cannot recall any yet when an existing gun control law is overturned by a lower court, the ruling is immediately suspended pending appeal. Then there is always the odd chance they are upheld in which case the joke is on the citizens. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 1:10:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Congratulations!
I'm so happy to see this. <-former NYS resident. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 1:19:49 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Congratulations! I'm so happy to see this. <-former NYS resident. Hope life is still great in Free America, brother.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 1:22:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hope life is still great in Free America, brother. It's great enough to stay where I am. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 2:01:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Sorry.
We’re fucked. It’s about to get much worse for NY gun owners. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 2:03:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know it's going to take a lawsuit to confirm but do we think this means upstate permits are valid in New York City? That’s my question |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 2:21:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s my question My guess is that Honchul will call a special session to address the "emergency" created by the Supreme Court ruling today. Even if they do make the pistol permit section of the Penal Law "shall issue" I expect that a separate permit application will be required for New York City that while ostensibly "shall issue" will be so onerous to comply with that no one will actually be issued a permit setting the stage for another Supreme Court challenge that will take years and years to percolate through the Federal Court system. I am 64 years old and do not expect to see a NYC permit in my lifetime. Hopefully I am wrong but I do not expect those criminals in Albany to roll over just because the Supreme Court says so. Look at what they have done with sanctuary cities and non citizen voting in violation of Federal Law. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 2:56:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: If you have a restricted "carry" permit...yes. You can now carry. That's what this decision is saying...but I'm no lawyer. So... Quoted: I know it's going to take a lawsuit to confirm but do we think this means upstate permits are valid in New York City? Quoted: So be me. No pistol permit. What does this change for when I do apply now? Nothing, Target/Hunting/Sportsman will still probably be available. Full carry will have additional requirements, unless they give in and just upgrade everyone. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 3:06:34 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sorry. We’re fucked. It’s about to get much worse for NY gun owners. Unfortunately true, until the new punitive and unconstitional laws the state will pass are challenged in court. It will be worse before it gets better. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 4:10:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Those shifty bastards in NY will do whatever they can to prevent this court decision from making the second amendment a first class right in NY.
So glad I left. They will figure out a way to continue to infringe. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 5:23:28 PM EDT
[#39]
I mean guys this opinion is so strong she can try to pass any laws she wants but they're going to get struck down.
So many lower courts were waiting on this decision to determine what level of scrutiny to apply... And this basically blows that out of the water. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 5:32:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, I do not think this ruling makes restricted permits now unrestricted, or allows people with upstate permits to carry in NYC. Fee free to challenge that as we need to confirm and challenge if it doesn’t. You will still be required to jump through the hoops, take additional training, submit your references, etc. it just meant that they can’t deny you based on your stated purpose for wanting to carry concealed. Eta: for some upstate counties this ruling has no effect. I humbly disagree with the not unrestricted part... - shall issue because the SC affirms the right of an individual to bear arms, the restrictions curtailed bearing arms for self defense which is why the two parties backed by NYSRPA were fighting. The decision makes the restrictions void. Upstate permits in NYC......that is a good question. Not sure that is addressed by this ruling. Of couse Litigious James would say it does not. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 5:35:51 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean guys this opinion is so strong she can try to pass any laws she wants but they're going to get struck down. So many lower courts were waiting on this decision to determine what level of scrutiny to apply... And this basically blows that out of the water. It was also brought up by one of the analysts that there is an AWB case in Maryland now pending in light of this ruling. Maryland's AWB may be struck down under this new guidance in which case New York's SAFE Act will probably be up for challenge pretty quickly since it is definitely a violation of Strict Scrutiny. Of course I remember when Heller was released in 2008 and all the predictions then of gun laws being struck down and, again, blood running in the streets. Fast forward 12 years and we have more draconian restrictions and bans then we did back then. The appellate courts may just use the new "One Step" rule to continue upholding unconstitutional laws and dare SCOTUS to strike them down (exactly what is the penalty for them doing that?). SCOTUS only takes a handful of cases every year and may not be up to such an increased workload. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 5:37:11 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m happy but also know NY will try to weasel their way out of anything. I would like the SAFE Act to be the next to go, better not take another hundred years… Like the 7 round mag limit in your ten round magazine. I’d like to see mag bans get tossed. Arbitrary and capricious law. I do not hold my breath on that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 5:43:28 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, not necessarily. You "applied for" a permit with restrictions, and that is what you got. There is nothing technically wrong with them saying if you want Target/Hunting, the process stays the same, if you want Full Carry, there is now a legitimate pathway, but you have to go to several expensive classes, including live fire, and get other "reasonable things." All this does is prevent them from saying "self defense is not proper cause to issue a full carry." That said, the restrictions themselves rely on the concept of proper cause for this or that, ie. you've shown proper cause for target, proper cause for hunting/hiking/sports, so that is the permit you get - if the concept of proper cause is fully defunct, perhaps we just revert to the penal law that says "to have and to carry concealed" - unclear how the state will view it and try to enforce it and ultimately you don't want to be in a position where they are claiming that your license is invalid for some reason, even if it's contrary to the ruling. Possibly. Wouldn't do it until more guidance comes out. Nothing, Target/Hunting/Sportsman will still probably be available. Full carry will have additional requirements, unless they give in and just upgrade everyone. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you have a restricted "carry" permit...yes. You can now carry. That's what this decision is saying...but I'm no lawyer. So... Quoted: I know it's going to take a lawsuit to confirm but do we think this means upstate permits are valid in New York City? Quoted: So be me. No pistol permit. What does this change for when I do apply now? Nothing, Target/Hunting/Sportsman will still probably be available. Full carry will have additional requirements, unless they give in and just upgrade everyone. I would hazard that most county judges would accept requests for removal of the restrictions and grant the unrestricted if you applied right now. They do not need more guidance than the SC ruling. If you wait then you get the chance of dealing with whatever hurdles and the NYC cabal create. If you have a restricted permit I would apply immediately to remove them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 5:44:52 PM EDT
[#44]
And sorry but training classes are not in tune with the text history and tradition of the second amendment or firearm ownership... Sorry Hochul.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 7:35:42 PM EDT
[#45]
the real question is, if you now have a constitutional right to conceal carry and you live out of state and have a ccw from that state, when you come to NY, is NY forced to honor it? this sounds more like national reciprocity to me..
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 7:49:57 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the real question is, if you now have a constitutional right to conceal carry and you live out of state and have a ccw from that state, when you come to NY, is NY forced to honor it? this sounds more like national reciprocity to me.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 7:50:54 PM EDT
[#47]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 8:39:26 PM EDT
[#48]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 9:14:15 PM EDT
[#49]
As far as I understand, restrictions no longer apply to the permits issued already. But I would like to hear from the County. I will call them tomorrow to hear their (likely unconstitutional) opinion.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/23/2022 9:33:25 PM EDT
[#50]
 Let’s all celebrate this tiny little victory against NY. I for one am happy every time NYS is forced to face reality. I fully expect Hochul or our reps to ruin this somehow but not today. Cheers gents! |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File
Attached File