NEW BUCHANAN BOOK DECLARES 'END OF AMERICA'
Sun Nov 25 2007 20:40:15 ET

**Exclusive**

"America is coming apart, decomposing, and...the likelihood of her survival as one nation...is improbable -- and impossible if America continues on her current course," declares Pat Buchanan. "For we are on a path to national suicide."

The best-selling author and former presidential candidate is on the eve of launching his new epic book: DAY OF RECKONING: HOW HUBRIS, IDEOLOGY AND GREED ARE TEARING AMERICA APART.

[The book's release date has been moved up to this week. It ranked #237 on AMAZON's hitparade Monday morning.]

This time, Buchanan goes all the way:

"America is in an existential crisis from which the nation may not survive."

The U.S. Army is breaking and is too small to meet America’s global commitments.

The dollar has sunk to historic lows and is being abandoned by foreign governments.

U.S. manufacturing is being hollowed out.

The greatest invasion in history, from the Third World, is swamping the ethno-cultural core of the country, leading to Balkanization and the loss of the Southwest to Mexico.


The culture is collapsing and the nation is being deconstructed along the lines of race and class.

A fiscal crisis looms as the unfunded mandates of Social Security and Medicare remain unaddressed.

All these crises are hitting America at once -- a perfect storm of crises.

Specifically, Buchanan contends:

• Pax Americana, the era of U.S. global dominance, is over. A struggle for global hegemony has begun among the United States, China, a resurgent Russia and radical Islam

• Bush’s invasion of Iraq was a product of hubris and of ideology, a secular religion of “democratism,” to which Bush was converted in the days following 9/11

• Torn asunder by a culture war, America has now begun to break down along class, ethnic and racial lines.

• The greatest threat to U.S. sovereignty and independence is the scheme of a global elite to erase America’s borders and merge the USA, Mexico and Canada into a North American Union.

• Free trade is shipping jobs, factories and technology to China and plunging America into permanent dependency and unpayable debt. One of every six U.S. manufacturing jobs vanished under Bush

• “Sovereign Wealth Funds,” controlled by foreign regimes and stuffed with trillions of dollars from U.S. trade deficits, are buying up strategic corporate assets vital to America’s security

• As U.S. wages are stagnant, corporate CEOs are raking in rising pay and benefits 400 to 500 times that of their workers

• The Third World invasion through Mexico is a graver threat to our survival as one nation than anything happening in Afghanistan or Iraq

* European-Americans, 89% of the nation when JFK took the oath, are now 66% and sinking. Before 2050, America is a Third World nation

• By 2060, America will add 167 million people and 105 million immigrants will be here, triple the 37 million today.

• Hispanics will be over 100 million in 2050 and concentrated in a Southwest most Mexicans believe belongs to them

Buchanan’s Recommendations:

• A new foreign-defense policy that closes most of the 1000 bases overseas, reviews all alliances, and brings home U.S. troops

• A purge of neoconservative ideology and the “Cakewalk” crowd” from national power.

• To avert a second Cold War, the United States should “get out of Russia’s space and get out of Russia’s face,” and shut down all U.S. bases on the soil of the former Soviet Union

• To reach a cold peace in the culture war, Buchanan urges a return to federalism and the overthrow of our judicial dictatorship by Congressionally mandated restrictions on the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court.

• To end the trade deficits and save the dollar, Buchanan urges a Hamiltonian solution: a 20% Border Equity Tax on imports, with the $500 billion raised to be used to end taxation on American producers

• To prevent America becoming “a tangle of squabbling nationalities” Buchanan urges: No amnesty for the 12-20 million illegal aliens; a border fence from San Diego to Brownsville; Congressional declarations that children born to illegal aliens are not citizens and English is the language of the United States; and a “timeout” on all immigration.

Developing...

Too bad the elected people don't recognize this.

Old fogies screaming the sky is falling? How original.

Whatever it takes to sell a book

Maybe the reason us old fogies are screaming is that we lived in and remember how great this country was.  What we see now is a shell of it's former self.  I agree with most of his contentions.  However, he seems to be an isolationist which I don't agree is the right tact to take.  Just my .02

Brett

This part:

To reach a cold peace in the culture war, Buchanan urges a return to federalism and the overthrow of our judicial dictatorship by Congressionally mandated restrictions on the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court.

Scared me the most.  

3 page discussion in SF:
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=607352

ar-jedi

Within this great Country of ours is a tremendious rift between good and evil, now before you take issue with what I'm suggesting take an intellectually honest view of our surroundings:
There are many people with virtues as honesty, integrety, charity, Christianity, work ethic,... likewise there are those who think the world owes them something, who think nothing of stealing or killing to fulfill their wants, dispicable actions in Public Office, mis-representation, that brodcast media promotes programming that's highly risque at a minimum....
God is out, Hedinism is in....no wonder the true believers of Islam think we're the Devil, just watch MTV or the evening news.  

Right here, right now I will stand on this premis:
I believe in God the Father and his only son Jesus Christ, likewise I believe that he will come again to pass judgement and that the book of Revelation might be fulfilled within our days. Deep down inside you may feel the same way, why else would you horde ammunition, take combative training, store food and supplies?  That's called being prepaired for TSHTF, well I wonder where the "schitt" will come from?
Ironically a Christian spouting these words would be considered a nut-job, but for a Muslim it's sacred and we must respect it.

The book offers some valid points that must be considered, maby they are not the answers, but maby they're a damn good start.  

Quoted: This part: To reach a cold peace in the culture war, Buchanan urges a return to federalism and the overthrow of our judicial dictatorship by Congressionally mandated restrictions on the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court. Scared me the most.

I guess he'll do anything to keep two guys from marrying, with all that Judicial Actvism the fundies babble about. Even if it means other cases will now be controlled by the tyranny of the majority via congress.

Quoted: God is out, Hedinism is in....no wonder the true believers of Islam think we're the Devil, just watch MTV or the evening news.

Rife hedonism will be the corrupting force that topples radical Islam far faster than any bomb will. Corrupt their children with drugs, sex and materialism and they'll be disconnected from their conservative parents (just as it did to the kids of Christan parents in Europe and the USA). Killing their parents or relatives (good or bad) will just make them cling closer to their remaining fundie kin for saftey and keep up the cycle of adherance to religion.

This should have been published in 1990.

Quoted: Quoted: This part: To reach a cold peace in the culture war, Buchanan urges a return to federalism and the overthrow of our judicial dictatorship by Congressionally mandated restrictions on the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court. Scared me the most.   I guess he'll do anything to keep two guys from marrying, with all that Judicial Actvism the fundies babble about. Even if it means other cases will now be controlled by the tyranny of the majority via congress. Quoted: God is out, Hedinism is in....no wonder the true believers of Islam think we're the Devil, just watch MTV or the evening news.   Rife hedonism will be the corrupting force that topples radical Islam far faster than any bomb will. Corrupt their children with drugs, sex and materialism and they'll be disconnected from their conservative parents (just as it did to the kids of Christan parents in Europe and the USA). Killing their parents or relatives (good or bad) will just make them cling closer to their remaining fundie kin for saftey and keep up the cycle of adherance to religion.

Unless I'm reading this wrong, we are i agreement.
"Killing their parents or relatives..." might very well cement the hatered in their hearts for us, but it will not change our mission there.

Quoted: NEW BUCHANAN BOOK DECLARES 'END OF AMERICA' Sun Nov 25 2007 20:40:15 ET **Exclusive** "America is coming apart, decomposing, and...the likelihood of her survival as one nation...is improbable -- and impossible if America continues on her current course," declares Pat Buchanan. "For we are on a path to national suicide." Looking around we have enough good people trying to keep the Country alive to off-set those trying to destroy her: not impossible, juts improbable...hopefully we can learn from the mistakes of the Romans The best-selling author and former presidential candidate is on the eve of launching his new epic book: DAY OF RECKONING: HOW HUBRIS, IDEOLOGY AND GREED ARE TEARING AMERICA APART. [The book's release date has been moved up to this week. It ranked #237 on AMAZON's hitparade Monday morning.] This time, Buchanan goes all the way: "America is in an existential crisis from which the nation may not survive." The U.S. Army is breaking and is too small to meet America’s global commitments. Granted we are stretched thin and I do question the need for many of the foreign bases we maintain The dollar has sunk to historic lows and is being abandoned by foreign governments. Funny, by many accounts it's just the opposite U.S. manufacturing is being hollowed out. Too often it's cheaper with fewer regulations to produce goods elsewhere The greatest invasion in history, from the Third World, is swamping the ethno-cultural core of the country, leading to Balkanization and the loss of the Southwest to Mexico. ASK the natives of any of the Southern states about the problems associated with this migration: you WILL get an ear full. The culture is collapsing and the nation is being deconstructed along the lines of race and class. OK America is "The great melting pot" even so the old saying: Birds of a feather flock together. How do you think we got China Town, Little Italy, The French Quarter,...?  People will segregate themselves into like groups, there is NOTHING wrong with this. It's not to say that a Black can't live in a certain area, but chances are he won't move into a Redneck trailer park. A fiscal crisis looms as the unfunded mandates of Social Security and Medicare remain unaddressed. Yes, I also believe that the best intentions of bureaucrats have painted us into a corner we'll have a hard time getting out of All these crises are hitting America at once -- a perfect storm of crises. We've been hit hard and sucker punched before, and we've come out swinging Specifically, Buchanan contends: • Pax Americana, the era of U.S. global dominance, is over. A struggle for global hegemony has begun among the United States, China, a resurgent Russia and radical Islam Well who the hell else is dominating it? China: that's a country we need to be watching VERY closely...we could be ass-deep in empty brass and their soldiers would still be coming ashore • Bush’s invasion of Iraq was a product of hubris and of ideology, a secular religion of “democratism,” to which Bush was converted in the days following 9/11 Plausible • Torn asunder by a culture war, America has now begun to break down along class, ethnic and racial lines. Maby we want to be self segregated along class, ethnic and racial lines.    BTW: Of the term "White separatist" I have never heard the of any other race or creed being labeled  "Xxxix separatist" So if you want to live in peace out away from the rest of society, you're viewed as a separatist and therefore must have an anti-social agenda. • The greatest threat to U.S. sovereignty and independence is the scheme of a global elite to erase America’s borders and merge the USA, Mexico and Canada into a North American Union. the only part that seems to be working right now is the open Mexican border • Free trade is shipping jobs, factories and technology to China and plunging America into permanent dependency and unpayable debt. One of every six U.S. manufacturing jobs vanished under Bush. It didn't start with Bush, and he hasn't slowed it down either • “Sovereign Wealth Funds,” controlled by foreign regimes and stuffed with trillions of dollars from U.S. trade deficits, are buying up strategic corporate assets vital to America’s security.  Examples please? • As U.S. wages are stagnant, corporate CEOs are raking in rising pay and benefits 400 to 500 times that of their workers. Greed? I suppose that a company who's CEO made them 50 Million dollars could afford to pay the leader who took them there a couple million, even though it really pisses me off when they get fired for stealing or running the company into the ground and still pull of more money than most will make in a lifetime. Still it's a private company and what they pay to whoever is their business so long as they don't violate established labor and tax laws. • The Third World invasion through Mexico is a graver threat to our survival as one nation than anything happening in Afghanistan or Iraq  The Mexican want to settle and make money, the Islamic population of those countries want us dead * European-Americans, 89% of the nation when JFK took the oath, are now 66% and sinking. Before 2050, America is a Third World nation No, well be populated by immigrants for third world countries • By 2060, America will add 167 million people and 105 million immigrants will be here, triple the 37 million today. maby, maby not • Hispanics will be over 100 million in 2050 and concentrated in a Southwest most Mexicans believe belongs to them. We took Texas from Mexico once, we can do it again! Buchanan’s Recommendations: • A new foreign-defense policy that closes most of the 1000 bases overseas, reviews all alliances, and brings home U.S. troops. not a bad idea, problem is most place threatened with loosing a base will go to extraordinary lengths to keep it open in order to maintain their economy. • A purge of neoconservative ideology and the “Cakewalk” crowd” from national power. a through purge of most elected officials would be even better. • To avert a second Cold War, the United States should “get out of Russia’s space and get out of Russia’s face,” and shut down all U.S. bases on the soil of the former Soviet Union Probably true, but I don't know. • To reach a cold peace in the culture war, Buchanan urges a return to federalism and the overthrow of our judicial dictatorship by Congressionally mandated restrictions on the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court. Out of my league. • To end the trade deficits and save the dollar, Buchanan urges a Hamiltonian solution: a 20% Border Equity Tax on imports, with the $500 billion raised to be used to end taxation on American producers.  economic competition would bring jobs and manufacturing back to the US: maby good, maby not. • To prevent America becoming “a tangle of squabbling nationalities” Buchanan urges: No amnesty for the 12-20 million illegal aliens; a border fence from San Diego to Brownsville; Congressional declarations that children born to illegal aliens are not citizens and English is the language of the United States; and a “timeout” on all immigration. General consensus would agree with this statement. Developing...

I recall watching some documentary about a child genius on TV. He predicted the United States would fall as the roman empire did. I can see a lot of similarities and it scares me.hock.gif

Quoted: I recall watching some documentary about a child genius on TV. He predicted the United States would fall as the roman empire did. I can see a lot of similarities and it scares me.

All empires fall eventually, its not something unique to the Romans.

As much as I agree with most of this and disagree with some I still believe the United States of America is by far the best country to live in. As long as Americans don't forget that we will always be #1

Quoted: Quoted: I recall watching some documentary about a child genius on TV. He predicted the United States would fall as the roman empire did. I can see a lot of similarities and it scares me. All empires fall eventually, its not something unique to the Romans.

The idea is to survive as long as possible....we DO hold the record for the longest, continious, free Government in history.

Its ONLY the Beginning....

Washington DC and all the state capitols need a good purging or enema. But this is a govenment elected by the people and if the people are that stupid and elect assholes and allow corruption (like NJ), then we have no one to blame but ourselves (not us, mostly our stupid neighbors). Most of us ARF's and non-sheeple see thru the vails of BS, but the masses that enjoy Dancing with the Stars and American Idol are the main problem IMHO. I'd love to see all network  / cable TV go black for a few months and let people rediscover a library and reading a newspaper. Not that it would cure all, but the MSM really deserves to take a serious hit.

Quoted: Washington DC and all the state capitols need a good purging or enema. But this is a govenment elected by the people and if the people are that stupid and elect assholes and allow corruption (like NJ), then we have no one to blame but ourselves (not us, mostly our stupid neighbors). Most of us ARF's and non-sheeple see thru the vails of BS, but the masses that enjoy Dancing with the Stars and American Idol are the main problem IMHO. I'd love to see all network  / cable TV go black for a few months and let people rediscover a library and reading a newspaper. Not that it would cure all, but the MSM really deserves to take a serious hit.

Damn kids and their devil music, ban that as well while where at it...

Quoted: Quoted: Washington DC and all the state capitols need a good purging or enema. But this is a govenment elected by the people and if the people are that stupid and elect assholes and allow corruption (like NJ), then we have no one to blame but ourselves (not us, mostly our stupid neighbors). Most of us ARF's and non-sheeple see thru the vails of BS, but the masses that enjoy Dancing with the Stars and American Idol are the main problem IMHO. I'd love to see all network  / cable TV go black for a few months and let people rediscover a library and reading a newspaper. Not that it would cure all, but the MSM really deserves to take a serious hit. Damn kids and their devil music, ban that as well while where at it...

It figures that I would offend a Dancing with the Stars or American Idol fan. I figure that sarcasm is part of your response. I may sound like a fudd, but the Reality TV BS, like Growing Up Gotti, etc., has people divorced from reality which is ironic since it is supposed to be reality. Dirty Jobs should be the true reality show,  to illustrate to kids where they could wind up with just "getting by" which seems to be the goal of most Americans. Too many of us have lost the will to be morale and to be the best we can be. Corruption on so many levels is killing this once great nation and the ones that fell prior to us.

I agree with WOJO,and most of what Buchanan says!

Quoted: It figures that I would offend a Dancing with the Stars or American Idol fan. I figure that sarcasm is part of your response. I may sound like a fudd, but the Reality TV BS, like Growing Up Gotti, etc., has people divorced from reality which is ironic since it is supposed to be reality. Dirty Jobs should be the true reality show,  to illustrate to kids where they could wind up with just "getting by" which seems to be the goal of most Americans. Too many of us have lost the will to be morale and to be the best we can be. Corruption on so many levels is killing this once great nation and the ones that fell prior to us.

There where dumb people before reality TV, old people just like to put blame on things rather than look at their generations shortcoming and consequences.

Quoted: There where dumb people before reality TV, old people just like to put blame on things rather than look at their generations shortcoming and consequences.

By your comment, it would seem that young people are also subject to the same quote.
"I'm a victim, so I'm not to blame".  
Einstine said: "There are only two infinate things: The Universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure of the first."  

Eng of Goggle, why do you even post here?

90% of everything that you post runs contrary to the common threads here. Let me guess, you're a Democrat, a techno geek and still lives at home with mom...am I warm here? You my friend troll are part of the problem as I see it. Are you a veteran, home owner, volunteer of anything, Scout Leader, EMT, anything other then a narrow minded cynic? Just curious. Let's hear something unique from you verses casting stones at what is being posted, which is your SOP.

By the way, I am not looking at any particular generation, the stupid reality shows exist because they span generations.

"There where dumb people before reality TV, old people just like to put blame on things rather than look at their generations shortcoming and consequences." No shit genius. I'm sorry but I lack the control not to say this..."There where dumb people before reality TV"....your parents had you, right?

Let me guess, you are one of the Gen X'ers that are angry at their parents for giving them everything, except the ability to take responsibility for their own actions? Your responses are realing starting to paint the picture of a Gen X'er who is angry because they will never amount to ANYTHING close to a Boomer or The Greatest Generation. Deal with it dude, it is not to late to grow up and be part of the solution verses a sideline critic enabling the lame.

Nuff said here on my part. I have to go and continue my part to raise my four children to be responsible, good citizens, who understand things don't come easy and that they need to pull some weight around the house. Time to gather leaves

Quoted: Eng of Goggle, why do you even post here? 90% of everything that you post runs contrary to the common threads here. Let me guess, you're a Democrat, a techno geek and still lives at home with mom...am I warm here? You my friend troll are part of the problem as I see it. Are you a veteran, home owner, volunteer of anything, Scout Leader, EMT, anything other then a narrow minded cynic? Just curious. Let's hear something unique from you verses casting stones at what is being posted, which is you SOP. By the way, I am not looking at any particular generation, the stupid reality shows exist because they span generations.

I'm still at college, somewhat of a techno geek and live at home to finish off my last credits for my major while interning for consultant work. Not a democrat, though I despise the nannying religious right and morality anti drug/porn/sex/condom/etc brigade that comes a s a 2-for-1 deal with many Republican or conservative candidates, enough that I wont vote for them if the negatives stack up vs them being pro-gun (single-issue voting is for scrubs). To boil it down, I believe in the freedom to do what one wants if it doesn't physically hurt another person intentionally, any intteruption is pure nanny-statism, whether its gun grabbing and pc-bullshit or telling people what they cant put in their bodies or listen to on the radio/TV.  

I have vonteered in the past when I had more time, I worked my way up in scouting to eagle (Though I left a few years after due to time contstraints and my inabilty to like their moral rule bs in regards to gays and athiests that would have excluded many good people I know who just happen to differ in one way or another from the people scouts have no problem with).


I deride this thread and others since they wreak of old men bickering about kids they didn't raise right and then go to blame current culture for the problems. It also seems to be a recurrent theme in light of history, going all they way back to the Rennisance and the hate the conservative factions had for the new science, culture and trade of the time.

Quoted: Old fogies screaming the sky is falling? How original.

+1

America is still the greatest country in the world.  

Quoted: Quoted: Old fogies screaming the sky is falling? How original. +1 America is still the greatest country in the world.

Yes it is the greatest country on the planet,no thanks to the young snotnose libtards!

Quoted: Quoted: Eng of Goggle, why do you even post here? 90% of everything that you post runs contrary to the common threads here. Let me guess, you're a Democrat, a techno geek and still lives at home with mom...am I warm here? You my friend troll are part of the problem as I see it. Are you a veteran, home owner, volunteer of anything, Scout Leader, EMT, anything other then a narrow minded cynic? Just curious. Let's hear something unique from you verses casting stones at what is being posted, which is you SOP. By the way, I am not looking at any particular generation, the stupid reality shows exist because they span generations. I'm still at college, somewhat of a techno geek and live at home to finish off my last credits for my major while interning for consultant work. Not a democrat, though I despise the nannying religious right and morality anti drug/porn/sex/condom/etc brigade that comes a s a 2-for-1 deal with many Republican or conservative candidates, enough that I wont vote for them if the negatives stack up vs them being pro-gun (single-issue voting is for scrubs). To boil it down, I believe in the freedom to do what one wants if it doesn't physically hurt another person intentionally, any intteruption is pure nanny-statism, whether its gun grabbing and pc-bullshit or telling people what they cant put in their bodies or listen to on the radio/TV.   I have vonteered in the past when I had more time, I worked my way up in scouting to eagle (Though I left a few years after due to time contstraints and my inabilty to like their moral rule bs in regards to gays and athiests that would have excluded many good people I know who just happen to differ in one way or another from the people scouts have no problem with). I deride this thread and others since they wreak of old men bickering about kids they didn't raise right and then go to blame current culture for the problems. It also seems to be a recurrent theme in light of history, going all they way back to the Rennisance and the hate the conservative factions had for the new science, culture and trade of the time.

Kid, until you a get a job, get married and raise a family you have a lot to learn.

As Mr T once said, "I pity the fool".

Google needs a little time ''out in the field''.

he is one of the reason we have the America we see today.

height=8

Quoted: Washington DC and all the state capitols need a good purging or enema. But this is a govenment elected by the people and if the people are that stupid and elect assholes and allow corruption (like NJ), then we have no one to blame but ourselves (not us, mostly our stupid neighbors). Most of us ARF's and non-sheeple see thru the vails of BS, but the masses that enjoy Dancing with the Stars and American Idol are the main problem IMHO. I'd love to see all network  / cable TV go black for a few months and let people rediscover a library and reading a newspaper. Not that it would cure all, but the MSM really deserves to take a serious hit.

+ 1 u got that right!!!!!

Quoted: Google needs a little time ''out in the field''. he is one of the reason we have the America we see today.

What exactly do I do that ruins the nation?

Quoted: Quoted: Google needs a little time ''out in the field''. he is one of the reason we have the America we see today. What exactly do I do that ruins the nation?

VOTE!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Google needs a little time ''out in the field''. he is one of the reason we have the America we see today. What exactly do I do that ruins the nation? VOTE!

I actually vote very little (locally at least), since nearly every candidate fails to meet my satisfaction of being pro-gun, anti-prohibition, and overall pro-individual rights. I would go "lol, RP" if it was feasable, but everyone else seems utterly full of fail and either wanting gun grabbing or push the WOT stuff thats going to slide us into a police state sooner enough.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Google needs a little time ''out in the field''. he is one of the reason we have the America we see today. What exactly do I do that ruins the nation? VOTE! I actually vote very little (locally at least), since nearly every candidate fails to meet my satisfaction of being pro-gun, anti-prohibition, and overall pro-individual rights. I would go "lol, RP" if it was feasable, but everyone else seems utterly full of fail and either wanting gun grabbing or push the WOT stuff thats going to slide us into a police state sooner enough.

I know the feeling. I continue to vote  for the republican candidates knowing very well the dems will blow them away overall. The majority of NJ voters are the " gimme crowd ". let alone the rest of the country

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Google needs a little time ''out in the field''. he is one of the reason we have the America we see today. What exactly do I do that ruins the nation? VOTE! I actually vote very little (locally at least), since nearly every candidate fails to meet my satisfaction of being pro-gun, anti-prohibition, and overall pro-individual rights. I would go "lol, RP" if it was feasable, but everyone else seems utterly full of fail and either wanting gun grabbing or push the WOT stuff thats going to slide us into a police state sooner enough. I know the feeling. I continue to vote  for the republican candidates knowing very well the dems will blow them away overall. The majority of NJ voters are the " gimme crowd ". let alone the rest of the country

I voted once for a republican (for Senate) in a quasi-single issue "hope he'll be pro-gunish" vote awhile back, then looked back disgusted when I read he cock-blocked needle exchange programs in NJ (common in other states) for petty reason he wouldn't elaborate on other than oft-repeated DARE propaganda. After that I said to myself the candidate has to have 2/3-3/4 of issues I like or he wont get my vote. Cuts me off bigtime but it keeps my conscious clear. That said, I'd pick the least of evils in this election (Obama or Fred, whoever looks viable vs the Hillary, Rommey or Rudy doomsday scenario) since I think things are a bit perilous at this point with her or the creepy-club Republican "front-runners" right now.

Quoted: I'm still at college, somewhat of a techno geek and live at home to finish off my last credits for my major while interning for consultant work. Not a democrat, though I despise the nannying religious right and morality anti drug/porn/sex/condom/etc brigade that comes a s a 2-for-1 deal with many Republican or conservative candidates, enough that I wont vote for them if the negatives stack up vs them being pro-gun (single-issue voting is for scrubs). To boil it down, I believe in the freedom to do what one wants if it doesn't physically hurt another person intentionally, any interruption is pure nanny-statism, whether its gun grabbing and pc-bullshit or telling people what they cant put in their bodies or listen to on the radio/TV. Problem IS many of these free will issues are harmful to other people. The "nannying" from religion is called Morality, and when used with good conscience leads to wonderfully productive lives. IF you made it to Eagle Scout I would expect you to understand and embrace the concept.  Just because you think it's OK to smoke a little dope and butt-fuck your room mate doesn't make it right. Do you believe it's OK to sit in front of someone and deliberately fart? Is it alright to be tuning into a radio to hear something like "this fat bitch was sucking my...." with the wife & kids in the car? Would you have the respect to turn off the television if your Grandmother came over and you were watching some of these "reality" shows? Is it alright to pass out birth control pills to minor children without parental concept or knowledge or to show them in a public classroom the way to properly install a condom? Come on, do not be intellectually dishonest with yourself in the interest of supporting your point, to avoid the embarrassment of being wrong. I will be the first to complain about the Nanny rules of NY/NJ, but after living here for twenty years I have come to the conclusion that most of these laws were enacted to STOP the bullshitt that people from socially undeveloped countries bring when they immigrated here. At one time I was for the methodology of allowing others to do unto themselves as they pleased provided it didn't affect others, well guess what? IT DOES. I have vonteered in the past when I had more time, I worked my way up in scouting to eagle (Though I left a few years after due to time constraints and my inability to like their moral rule bs in regards to gays and atheists that would have excluded many good people I know who just happen to differ in one way or another from the people scouts have no problem with). Understand this: Scouting is a private organization whose membership is open to the public provided that you have the same morals and ethics. It's not so much that they're anti-gay as opposed to risking the increased chances of an in-appropriate incident between a homosexual and a child in their care. Scouting was founded in the name of God, Family, and Country. and that's the way it will remain. Would you as an Atheist belong to a Christian Church??? Thought so. Volunteerism takes commitment, isn't there an hour you can donate somewhere between beers and having your mom make you a sandwich? Don't piss & moan about not having time, there are many of us out there with way more on our plates that still find time to do what's right, while helping our communities. I deride this thread and others since they wreak of old men bickering about kids they didn't raise right and then go to blame current culture for the problems. It also seems to be a recurrent theme in light of history, going all they way back to the Renaissance and the hate the conservative factions had for the new science, culture and trade of the time.. Tell me what you know of the Renaissance? The recurrence of these concepts has kept mans appetite in check for eons, "Old men" have bickered of them because they have experienced life and earn the right to expound upon them, you sir have not.

Quoted: Problem IS many of these free will issues are harmful to other people. The "nannying" from religion is called Morality, and when used with good conscience leads to wonderfully productive lives. IF you made it to Eagle Scout I would expect you to understand and embrace the concept.  Just because you think it's OK to smoke a little dope and butt-fuck your room mate doesn't make it right.

You coming down from a plagarized middle-eastern tome of "morality" doesn't make such acts wrong either.

Quoted: Do you believe it's OK to sit in front of someone and deliberately fart? Is it alright to be tuning into a radio to hear something like "this fat bitch was sucking my...." with the wife & kids in the car?

Simple: Dont listen to such stations in a car with your kids, its your responsibility, not the nanny state to make up for your shitty parenting and knob control skills.

Quoted: Would you have the respect to turn off the television if your Grandmother came over and you were watching some of these "reality" shows?

Yes, I would if she objected to the content.

Quoted: Is it alright to pass out birth control pills to minor children without parental concept or knowledge or to show them in a public classroom the way to properly install a condom? Come on, do not be intellectually dishonest with yourself in the interest of supporting your point, to avoid the embarrassment of being wrong.

I'd rather the kids know then (especially since most parents are ignorant and live in denial time and time again that their kids will grow up and learn about sex, especially those who preach from tomes) then have them fail at it later and have a bunch of ill-raised kids when they couldn't figure out birth control. If the parents object that much to info being displayed, they can homeschool them.

Quoted: I will be the first to complain about the Nanny rules of NY/NJ, but after living here for twenty years I have come to the conclusion that most of these laws were enacted to STOP the bullshitt that people from socially undeveloped countries bring when they immigrated here. At one time I was for the methodology of allowing others to do unto themselves as they pleased provided it didn't affect others, well guess what? IT DOES.

We have laws for when it effects others. Drinking is fine, drinking while in a car and hitting other cars is a crime. I fail to see why this cant be applied to the other things you take issue with (drugs, sex, etc). You are right though about the laws enacted to counter immigrants, pot was a-ok in the states with white folk till they learned black men and mexican men also smoked it. Then they passed the reefer laws to stick it too them back when men judged by skin tone.

Quoted: Understand this: Scouting is a private organization whose membership is open to the public provided that you have the same morals and ethics. It's not so much that they're anti-gay as opposed to risking the increased chances of an in-appropriate incident between a homosexual and a child in their care. Scouting was founded in the name of God, Family, and Country. and that's the way it will remain. Would you as an Atheist belong to a Christian Church??? Thought so.

I know that, that is why I left, I disagreed with their ideals and didn't attempt to push them against their will thru legal strongarming.

Quoted: Volunteerism takes commitment, isn't there an hour you can donate somewhere between beers and having your mom make you a sandwich? Don't piss & moan about not having time, there are many of us out there with way more on our plates that still find time to do what's right, while helping our communities.

Lets just say I've come under a spell of extreme apathy and cynicism, I've seen my past efforts goto naught in many cases with scouting and with other efforts, my internship in environmental consulting has been similar. Maybe I'll try later, but right now I need to set some things straigh closer at hand. In the meantime, I'll vote for things and people that sate my inner mind and peace

Quoted: Tell me what you know of the Renaissance? The recurrence of these concepts has kept mans appetite in check for eons, "Old men" have bickered of them because they have experienced life and earn the right to expound upon them, you sir have not.

Luckily, the old men die in their beds not too long after, their supressive efforts in vain and man can chase that which has been held back as it always has been.