I was talking to a friend yesterday who lives in Manhattan.  The reason this came up is because he had an unregistered pistol in his apartment and he recently drove it to some property he owns in a more gun-friendly state.

He was telling me he was nervous driving it through New York and I said why the hell were you nervous.  Just put it in the trunk and drive it to your other property!

He tells me that since the terrorist attacks, police in NYC have been stopping suspicious cars and searching them.  He says this practise really speeds up when the terrorist alert is raised from Orange to Red or whatever color scheme they use these days.

I said well, don't let them search your car.  He says you HAVE to let them.  I said, you might be in NYC, but this is still America and they can't search your car without your permission, and they can't impound it either just because you refused a search.

So I guess my question is, how common are these vehicle searches in NYC?

How are they conducted?  Is it standard procedure to inform the person that they have the option to refuse a search?

By the way, the pistol in question is legal in all regards except that it was never registered with New York State and obviously illegal in NYC, which is why my friend moved it.

I will educate him with what I know about the 4th ammendment and it's applications when we next talk, but I'm curious as to what the "real story" is out there in the mean streets of New York City.

SINCE 9/11 VEHICLE SEARCHES ARE COMMON PLACE THROUGH-OUT THE CITY. MY WORK TRUCKS GET SEARCHED ALMOST EVERYDAY. IT DOESN'T BOTHER THE LAW ABIDING NY'ER. ON THE OTHER HAND I LIKE TO SEE IT. YOU REALLY CANNOT REFUSE TO LET THEM CHECK YOUR VEHICLE THE TROUBLE THAT WOULD CAUSE WOULD BE SUBSTANTIAL. THEY WOULD REFUSE YOU ENTRY OR EXIT FROM THE CITY I IMAGINE AND YOU'D SPEND SOME TIME BEHIND BARS. LOST PAPER WORK AND CRAP LIKE THAT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

Interesting to hear that routinely having your car searched "DOESN'T BOTHER THE LAW ABIDING NY'ER". I live upstate, near Albany, not in the Big Apple, and it would certainly bother this law-abiding New Yorker. Maybe that's why I avoid the city like the plague. I would refuse every time. If they wanted to arrest me for it, they would have to drag me out of my vehicle. If I were in a particularly bad mood that day, they might have to separate my teeth from their arm. Or wash my tire tracks from their uniform.

Violating the fourth amendment is not a joke. Those who do it, for any reason, are criminals. That includes the Taking Scissors Away division of the GEheime STAat POlizei (homeland "security") Department.

Quoted: SINCE 9/11 VEHICLE SEARCHES ARE COMMON PLACE THROUGH-OUT THE CITY. MY WORK TRUCKS GET SEARCHED ALMOST EVERYDAY. IT DOESN'T BOTHER THE LAW ABIDING NY'ER. ON THE OTHER HAND I LIKE TO SEE IT. YOU REALLY CANNOT REFUSE TO LET THEM CHECK YOUR VEHICLE THE TROUBLE THAT WOULD CAUSE WOULD BE SUBSTANTIAL. THEY WOULD REFUSE YOU ENTRY OR EXIT FROM THE CITY I IMAGINE AND YOU'D SPEND SOME TIME BEHIND BARS. LOST PAPER WORK AND CRAP LIKE THAT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

You have got to be shitting me.

sell your guns, you obviously are never going to need them.

99% of the searches are done on commercial trucks and Vans , they are conducted at the tunnels and bridges .

The only time  individual cars are  searched is usually at random Car Checkpoints,  similar to DWI Checkpoints .

QUIETSHITTER MY GUNS ARE FOR MY ENJOYMENT. I GO OUT AND SHOOT AT A RANGE. THATS IT. I DONT SIT AT HOME WAITING FOR THE GOVT TO MAKE ME MAD SO I CAN JOIN THE "CIVIL WAR". LIGHTEN UP ASSHOLE. IF YOU LIVED IN A CITY THAT WAS "ATTACKED" AS NY WAS ON 9/11 YOU WOULD DO WHATEVER WAS ASKED OF YOU BY THE POWERS THAT BE. I'M SURE YOU HAVEN'T FORGOTTEN WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY RIGHT. THEY DO HAVE TELEVISION IN THE PART OF THE COUNTRY YOU LIVE IN RIGHT. OR DO YOU LIVE UNDER A ROCK?  

Private vehicles are NOT being searched! Commercial vehicles at the bridges and tunnels are being searched. Private vehicles are not searched at DWI check points unless the owner is arrested. Now this is the official policy, some officers might be conducting bad searches and are getting away with it. In a city with 36,000 cops it is impossible to control all of them. Mike.

what was that Ben Franklin quote again? Something like, and I paraphrase,
"those that would give up essential liberty for temporary feeling of security deserve neither"

MAG162, Calling people an asshole and typing in all capitol letters will not win friends and influence people around here. We all remember 911, some more than others, take a deep breath. MIKE.

Quoted: QUIETSHITTER MY GUNS ARE FOR MY ENJOYMENT. I GO OUT AND SHOOT AT A RANGE. THATS IT.

Wow, a New York sheeple who somehow found his way to the gun store instead of driving to LI to sip wine with the other pretentious self-centered eastern liberal jackoffs in some town that Feelse The Neede To Adde Fuckinge Es To Everyfuckingthinge So We Can Pretende to Be In Jollye Olde England.  

I DONT SIT AT HOME WAITING FOR THE GOVT TO MAKE ME MAD SO I CAN JOIN THE "CIVIL WAR". LIGHTEN UP ASSHOLE. IF YOU LIVED IN A CITY THAT WAS "ATTACKED" AS NY WAS ON 9/11 YOU WOULD DO WHATEVER WAS ASKED OF YOU BY THE POWERS THAT BE.

Not on your pathetic little life.  Clamor for protection from the wolf, little lamb...the farmer will keep you safe, sort of, as long as it suits his purpose to do so.

I'M SURE YOU HAVEN'T FORGOTTEN WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY RIGHT. THEY DO HAVE TELEVISION IN THE PART OF THE COUNTRY YOU LIVE IN RIGHT. OR DO YOU LIVE UNDER A ROCK?

Heads up, you little shitstain in the shorts of Benedict Arnold.  What did you do that day, besides piss down your pathetic little chickenleg and dial 911?  I rejoined the goddamn military, what did you do??  Did you call 911 and wait for Maximum Rudy to ride to your rescue?  Such a man.  You make me from the psychic pain of knowing that pathetic whiners like you even exist...I find solace in the fact that you and most of your ilk live half a country away from me in either direction.

Well, flame wars aside, I thank the people who clarified the situation in NYC.  That commercial vehicles are being searched and not private ones.  That makes me feel a little better about the situation, but not a whole lot.

Thanks again for the update.

By the way, I thought this line was freakin' hilarious!

Clamor for protection from the wolf, little lamb...the farmer will keep you safe, sort of, as long as it suits his purpose to do so.

There's some truth to that, especially the "as long as it suits his purpose to do so" bit.  That's quite a sobering realization, and something we should remember.  Us "citizens" enjoy our freedoms at the good graces of those higher up on the totem pole in government...so long as it suits their purpose.

If anyone else has anything to add about these vehicle searches I'm all ears.

Thanks,
 Nick Viejo.

First off I was onsite when the first plane hit. Looking for parking for my commercial vehicle so I could go inside the Cosi Sandwich shop and service there safe.  So don't jump to conclusion's GI-joe.

Their probably within their Constitutional powers to search commercial vehicles, but only because they've convinced all the commercial vehicle owners to apply for a permit from the state to do business, a requirement for which is definitely NOT within their powers.

I'm glad to hear that they're not searching private vehicles without evidence of a crime.

Quoted: First off I was onsite when the first plane hit. Looking for parking for my commercial vehicle so I could go inside the Cosi Sandwich shop and service there safe.  So don't jump to conclusion's GI-joe.

Quoted: QUIETSHITTER MY GUNS ARE FOR MY ENJOYMENT. I GO OUT AND SHOOT AT A RANGE. THATS IT.

Interpreted in lowercase:  I own guns only because I am insecure, and I lack the intestinal fortitude to use them for self-defense.  Thinking about shooting someone is....icky.

Quoted: Quoted: I'M SURE YOU HAVEN'T FORGOTTEN WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY RIGHT. THEY DO HAVE TELEVISION IN THE PART OF THE COUNTRY YOU LIVE IN RIGHT. OR DO YOU LIVE UNDER A ROCK?   Heads up, you little shitstain in the shorts of Benedict Arnold.  What did you do that day, besides piss down your pathetic little chickenleg and dial 911?  I rejoined the goddamn military, what did you do??  Did you call 911 and wait for Maximum Rudy to ride to your rescue?  Such a man.  You make me from the psychic pain of knowing that pathetic whiners like you even exist...I find solace in the fact that you and most of your ilk live half a country away from me in either direction.

Damn, QS, I have to remember that line.  I like ya more every day.  

so fiz the only reason to own a gun is for self-defense?

Quoted: so fiz the only reason to own a gun is for self-defense?

No.

The point is that if you give up your personal freedom or right to privacy because you want to feel safe you are being a "sheep".

Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.

--Benjamin Franklin.

Hey thanks for the clarification.

Quoted: so fiz the only reason to own a gun is for self-defense?

Thanks for the clarification, ZRH.  The point, mag162, is that gun owners who don't care about exercising their rights hurt those of us who do.  I don't care if you don't have a desire to carry a gun for self defense, but don't discount my right to do so.

Nobody in their right mind wants to actually have to use a gun in a self defense situation.  There may come a time, however, when that is the best option available to you.

Mag162, Many people on this web site were at the site when the planes hit. Many more responded to the call. Even more toiled there for months during the rescue and recovery effort. One member of this site lost his partner that day. That person along with several others took the battle flag from the site and struck the enemy were he lives. Many are still on active duty and some are actively involved in securing NYC and this Nation each and every day. Many people on this site believe that it is the duty of every American to be prepared for a civil disorder, even if only an ice storm or hurricane. That way their family is taken care of and not become part of the problem. Part of that civil preparedness includes defending their themselves and their family with firearms. This will probably never be necessary but it is better to be safe than sorry. There is a feeling of pride when you almost hope for a hurricane so you can use all of your toys and know that you will most likely never have to call 911. MIKE    

Mike I agree with you 100%. I beleive that I just dont need some one who lives in anothe rpart of the country telling me how I should live my life. I have plenty of friends and relatives who were there along with me. I guess as ny'ers we were all there. My point is that I own guns for fun.... I dont have them just in case the SHTF day happens to come. If that day ever arrives and I pray it never does, I will be beside my fellow gun owners doing whatever needs to be done.

Quoted: Mike I agree with you 100%. I beleive that I just dont need some one who lives in anothe rpart of the country telling me how I should live my life.

Well welcome to the way the rest of us feel about New York and California.  Here, we think you're a spineless piece of shit for rolling over and showing your belly the first time something 'icky' happens.

"something icky"   thats what you call what happened 2 years ago, something icky. Qtshtr, you have absolutely no idea what happened here.The air was clearing on this post, and you just went and opened your mouth to show us your ignorance. Obviously it sounds like you have never been to NY or California, because they can't be more different. And if you have been, you must have had your eyes closed, don't stereotype us unless you've been here.

And now for some levity:

Quoted: The air was clearing on this post, and you just went and opened your mouth to show us your ignorence.

Never misspell "ignorance"; it ruins your whole point.

BTW, mike103, you're doing a nice job of keeping the peace.  I'm glad I got to meet you this May; you seem like a real level headed guy.

Your right Fiz, my mistake, way past my bedtime.

Quoted: Your right Fiz, my mistake, way past my bedtime.

Just some good-natured ribbing, trying to lighten the mood.  It was too good to pass up.  

Quoted: "something icky"   thats what you call what happened 2 years ago, something icky. Qtshtr, you have absolutely no idea what happened here.The air was clearing on this post, and you just went and opened your mouth to show us your ignorance. Obviously it sounds like you have never been to NY or California, because they can't be more different. And if you have been, you must have had your eyes closed, don't stereotype us unless you've been here.

Actually, I grew up in Somerset county, NJ, so I've spent a lot of time in the city.  

My knowledge and opinions are formed from personal experience, not hearsay and bullshit.

OK back to reality.  The bridges and tunnels of NYC are prime targets for terrorist attacks by trucks loaded with explosives.  The first attack on the WTC in '93 was carried out using a truck bomb.  

So the question is how do you safeguard the people and infrastructure in NYC?  Waiting for the boom and responding with your SHTF gear is not an option.

BTW, please don't stereotype all New Yorkers by the nonsense that goes on in the cities in NY.  There are millions of firearms in NY and most areas outside of the cities are conservative in nature.  Unfortunately we get blown away politically by the huge liberal voting population in the cities.  

wow you all are a little hyped. i live in the brooklyn. i worked in the city at the time.we diddnt know where my mother was for 6 hrs that day. i lost one friend and 2 people i knew. as a volunteer emt i tried to hitch a ride to the scene after the first plane hit and got to watch the second one hit.i saw them fall.
my mother  saw people falling and she told us she diddnt really comprehend that they were people falling at first. she asked one of her coworkers why they were throwing things down. she walked over the bridge and walked home. i got home that night through queens into brooklyn.occaisonally we had cell phone use but it was very iffy so my family shared news where each person was as we got hold of each other through that long day.
its funny how many people you know through other people and how many fnerals you end up going to.as an emt i was there when the first bombing happened and got home about 10.30  that friday night  but it was such a different day.anyway im rambling.
my wife who used to tolerate my gun habit became a much more interseted shooter after that. i really believe that was a day that will be a before and after although i see some people out there reverting back to the mindset they had before.
private cars are not searched unless the police have a darn good reason to in nyc  and while civil liberties and all that stuff sound good i believe that its blind not to think that a private car full of explosives cant collapse a tunnel or a bridge. the only people being searched are commercial vehicles and thats probably using the interstate commerce clause as a catchall.
its only a matter of time before we see the real terrorism here with car bombs and suicide bombers  and it will not just happen in nyc. what will be the price of civil liberties then? car searches will be more common and probably authorized by law.

your friend can transport his handgun without fear for now.

Sorry if this sound like a thread hijack, I apologize - but I go over two (2) bridge twice a day, sometime three different bridges. There is NO fucking way these are hardened targets. At best they are ripe for the picking. I can't tell you HOW many times a tractor trailer or other large cargo type vehicle that is NOT to use the lower roadway for GWB, (signs allover mandating exit), DOES. OH yeah, 2 LEOS, armed with semi-autos displayed only wave them over, guess what - if the trucker is a BAD guy HE is GOING through period and bye bye bridge.

As for rights and balls and other things. I am 52, (former LEO short time) and I would do WHATEVER it takes to protect me and my family. I lived for short time in CA and hated it even with a large transplanted family structure there to cushion the move. I did not like it there - too liberal, not to mention eventually and likely, sad to say, in my lifetime some good part of it will sink into the Pacific. I live in NJ lived most of my life in Queens and Westchester. I don't think most of NY but for the flatlanders are liberals. NYC is a special beast. If you DON'T live here you can not understand the "sheeple", as some have said, need to see something being done however infringing.

I have said nothing here to start a flame war, bad feeling or otherwise. Any who do take offense - Go fuck yourself.

Quoted: You want to carry an unregistered pistol, fine, go ahead but be prepared to deal with the consequences if it's discovered by the NYPD.

Just to make sure we're clear here...my friend did NOT want to have an unregistered pistol in NYC for fear of the consequences from the NYPD.  That is why he drove it to another state where the gun laws are better and left it there.

So now there's one less illegal gun in NYC...Charlton Heston would be so proud!

-Nick Viejo.

I've been thinking about rkbar15's question about protecting the bridges and tunnels to the island. Seems to me that it's mighty hard to do.

First off, you've gotta stop all traffic. Otherwise, a bomb truck can just blow by the search station and be on the bridge before it can be stopped. The search station needs to be off the bridge with a second security station further on to handle things after the bombers blow away the members of the search station with sawed-off shotgun blasts to the face. The guys manning that second station are gonna get mighty bored. They'll also be sniper bait. It'll also help a lot to rotate the security crews to  make it harder for the bombers to learn their routine and plan a way around it, but I doubt that will help much.

Bottom line is that it's very nearly impossible to stop a suicide bomber. Israel's been trying to do it for years with nowhere near the commitment to civil liberties that Americans expect, and they still haven't succeeded.

And for the bridges, you've also got to protect against water attacks. Five or ten stinger missiles into the bottom of a bridge would put it out of commission for a good long while. Again, virtually impossible to defend against without searching every boat that goes under every bridge. You'd have to blow out of the water any boat that floats wide of the search corridor. And again, on the day they blow the bridge, the terrorists will take out the search team first.

Without speaking out of church, there is a lot more being done than meets the eye. Are we safe? No but many people are trying very hard.

NYC is a very liberal place, but does not represent the whole state. I live 5 minutes from the Long Island Sound, 20 minutes from the ocean, one hour from Manhattan, three hours from the Catskill Mountains, six hours from the Adirondack Mountains. I fish, hunt, shoot, ski, work in Midtown Manhattan and enjoy the city sights. A great place to live. I belong to a Sportsman club and shoot every Wednesday. NEW YORK IS A GREAT PLACE TO LIVE! MIKE.

Quoted: NYC is a very liberal place, but does not represent the whole state.

You're right about that. But that's not gonna stop the likes of klinton and schumer from using NYC's 8 million voters to decide the fate of NY's hunting and sportsman activities when many of these people don't even come close to hunting, fishing, shooting or even seeing wildlife. (except in Central Park What scares me is that Hitlery tried to do it before. NYC is pretty much the breadmaker for the entire state. I once read that NYS expects to get at least 3/4 of revenue from the city itself. And the city doesn't even get much back. It's like upstate and LI is not important enough.

Defman, I hear you brother! We just have to stick together and spread the word. MIKE.

Quoted: You're right about that. But that's not gonna stop the likes of klinton and schumer from using NYC's 8 million voters to decide the fate of NY's hunting and sportsman activities when many of these people don't even come close to hunting, fishing, shooting or even seeing wildlife. *snip*

One problem with this. Clinton and Schumer are not NY State Legislators so they don't enact NY State laws, thank god! What they try to enact effect the entire country not just NY. Good thing they are failing badly at this. I always love when the uniformed lambaste us NY'ers on these two morons, they fail to realize that anything they enact effects the country not just us..

Quoted: NYC is a very liberal place, but does not represent the whole state. ...... NEW YORK IS A GREAT PLACE TO LIVE! MIKE.

As always, Mike103 makes a sensible and fair assessment.


Thanks Mike!


Anyone who doesn't live here (and for a number of years, not a short stint) really can't appreciate the special dynamic that is present in NYC and environs. To call all NY-ers derogatory names for the actions of a (per-capita) few is simplistic at best. Compare it to a European calling all Americans sexual deviants, cheats and liars because "we" elected Clinton twice.

What would we say to those Euros? Oh yeah...you don't know what you're talking about  and we don't care about your opinion anyway.


Works for me.

I have two major complaints with the part of New York where I live (Mass. border southeast of Albany).

1) Taxes are way too high
2) The Sullivan Act.

Number 2 is enough to make me leave the state, which I would have done by now were it not for my wife's refusal to move. I have a really hard time convincing myself to license away to the state my right to keep and bear arms.

Of course I'd have nearly the same problem in most of the rest of the country about getting a concealed carry permit. But at least I'd be able to HAVE a legal handgun without saying "pretty please" to the tyrants.