We are gearing up to build a metal shop  in the spring.  We are still all over the place on size.  24 x 36  to maybe 30 x 40.  
No boat, no project cars, but I want room to put a vehicle in it to work on, plus storing the usual yard crap and larger tools.
The eventual thought is we would finish out the rear into an heated\cooled reloading room, but that would not be very big.
I've seen some great metal buildings and I have seen some that were rusting and looked like shit in less than 10 years.

Anyone have recommendations on who to buy from and a contractor to assemble it?  Is it best to let the contractor purchase the building, or do I handle that separately?  I can estimate the concrete work, but is there a rule of thumb to figure erection cost?

We are in Springtown, NW of Fort Worth.


1/6/2022 Update below.  We've settled on a size and the major details so we are ready to move forward.

Mueller makes a very good kit and can be had with proper engineering documents to satisfy any local codes. They do not assemble, and are pretty cagey about recommending a general contractor.  In my area (Abilene) I had to have a structural engineer sign off on the foundation, but this may not be required in your area. Aside from the general contractor, my advice is to also be very choosy about the company doing the slab.... insurance, bond, etc.

I'd like to give you a recommendation, but this fucking bullshit with the city just drags on and I don't think my contractor is on top of it.

17 weeks in waiting on a permit, I've put $30k down for two buildings, one loafing style shed, 24 x 80 and one enclosed 40 x 50 steel building, two rollup doors and a 12ft over hang on one side, blow-in insulation, 200amp panel with a few plugs. Concrete floors in both. They did the drawings, submitted it working with the city on all the other bullshit, I think $140k was the total number.

I'd love to saw they did great, but FML, I don't even have forms laid yet for concrete. We are "supposedly" in the final stages of getting it approved. Going to have to bring in soil to raise the grade probably 18+ inches, install some french drains that actually won't drain anywhere.

The shop he build for my BIL was nice, but he had a 16ft sidewall put on his, second floor storage on part, lift to work on cars in the other part. That's too damn tall for what I need.

Newb to Springtown myself. The contractor that built our house knows about everyone in the area - might be able to help turn you on to someone. Where abouts are you? We're in Rocky Creek.

We are actually in Wise county.  No permits or other .gov BS needed in our case.  Some rather mundane HOA requirements, but they have already approved similar building in the subdivision.  It takes them about a week for approval and all they do is check the setbacks on your drawings.

Finished a building for Warrior Rig in Springtown 2+ years ago. There was no city permitting required at the time. They were getting a new Fire Marshall. We sent our plans to him for courtesy review. As for buildings. We do a shitload of SBS buildings at our Company. I have also used Butler, and USA. Of the three we stick with SBS and have for 17 yrs.

We are moving forward  in the next month or so.


Here is what we landed on:  25' x 30' x 10' Shop/storage building
We are in Wise County, so no building code, permits, or inspections to worry about. We do have an HOA, and the ACC request, along with drawing, was submitted to them two weeks ago. There are similar building in the subdivision, so hopefully there will not be a problem with the approval.

This is probably a 2-year project. Building w electrical this year. Interior will be next year.
I have a history of going significantly overboard\overbuilding with previous projects. The required spousal approval for the project was secured based upon assurances that I will keep the budget under control, and that she will maintain oversight on the scope. wife

We've reached out to a number of places for quotes, based on the following:
25' x 30' Red Iron structure,
10' side walls, 4/12 pitched gable roof.
One 8'x12' overhead door with foam insulated panels, one 4'x7' walk door, and four 3' x 3' double pained windows.
No insulation
Slab - #3500 psi concrete and rebar on 18" centers.

The vehicle door will go on the 30' side, 2' off the wall. The personnel door goes on the 25' gabled wall, opposite of the vehicle door. No window on the wall facing the back of our lot.


I want to make sure I am covering the bases before we start work.

The building for 1] storage, to get stuff out of the garage. (Zero Turn mower and other lawn\gardening stuff, shelves and shelves of storage totes. Big power tools) 2] At least some of the storage space must be climate controlled (per spousal unit). 3] Workshop area, with a permanent reloading bench. 4] Room to work on a vehicle, without having to move other stuff out or block access to the stuff already in the building.

Save the suggestions that I build something big enough to store an RV. The location of this shop would not be conducive to getting an RV in\out.


Slab
2" PVC conduit to bring in underground elect.
While I do not 'plan' on putting in water and septic, I'll get them to rough in a toilet flange and a water line into the back corner.
3' ramp leading into the 8'x'12' door
Anything else that needs to go into the slab, that would be a pita later, if I do not do it now?

Building
No insulation by the builder (We will do spray foam after the electrical is finished)
No ridge vents (I have had leak problems with these in the past).
2'x'2' frame for potential gable vents on both ends, but the opening will not be cut out.

Originally, I was going to finish out and AC a 10 X 16 space for a work area and reloading bench. But after the wife insisted she wanted additional climate controlled space for storing some of her stuff, we've arrived at just foaming the entire building, and building a dedicated reloading bench, plus a general purpose work bench, along one 25' wall. We will not enclose the area, instead we will just heat\cool the entire building.

The current plan is to do 2" of closed cell foam on the walls and ceiling (after the electrical is done}. and put in a 1 ton Mini Split ( maybe this year, but probably next year)
Any thoughts on 1 ton being enough? In addition to the insulation, the building will be well shaded in the summer. It does not have to stay 72 year round. Since the plan is to pretty much run it year round, the AC does not need to be able to cool the shop down rapidly.

The entire shop will get 8' plywood or OSB attached to the sidewall grits. (Likely a next year project). I'm saying we are only going 8' to save money. I am hoping the wife will want to go the full wall height once she sees it bolt
I'd love 3/4" plywood, but not at todays prices. I will probably end up with 1/2. That is sufficient or hanging light stuff from the walls. Big shit will just have to be free standing.

Will probably paint the exposed foam, but I will let my wife bring that up also.

How much lighting for something this size. There are some 72 watt 8' LED strip on Amazon that might work.

I am trying not to go overboard with the electrical.
One 50 amp 120/240 near the vehicle door for the welder and anything else crazy that might be needed. Wresting with code on this. That technically needs a GFCI, but EVERY time I have seen a GFCI on a welder or 50 amp RV plug, they have been a constant PITA de to nuisance trips.
Two 20 amp circuits for GFCI protected plugs around the entire building.
A 20 amp circuit for the lights, door opener, and AC
A 20 amp circuit for a couple of outside outlets.
A 20 amp spare.
This lets me stay within the 6-throw rule, so I do not need a panel with a main breaker.
Edit:  Changing to a 125 amp, 8 space, 16 circuit panel with a main breaker.

OK Hive Mind, Tell me what I am doing right and wrong...

accidental double tap

It's too small. You haven't built anything and it already sounds full.

Make it 2 ft taller and have space to stack stuff on top of the enclosed space. Is your property large enough to add 10ft to one side or the other? What about building a carport on one side? You know, place to park your truck when it hails or you need to change the oil or work on the tractor, but either don't want to be inside because it's too hot or because you already have a project in there and don't have the room. It would also be a good place to weld and do metal work. Outside the shop, but still on concrete and covered.

Just more ideas to think about so you're not kicking yourself later.

I appreciate what you are saying, but this is the size we get without cutting down mature live oaks or encroaching on their roots area. We bought the lot for the trees.

We have a three car garage and only two vehicles. We already park inside all the time... like civilized folks .  

I don't see the need for taller.  We discussed that in length. I don't want to be climbing up a ladder or stairs to store and access stuff.  My entire attic is heated\cooled space...that is a pita.

You’re still going to want to enclose a reloading space to keep out dust, etc from the main shop.

Good point

For the interior, run all the electrical above the mid horizontal perlin. Then attach vertical 2x4's every two feet. Then use horizontal concrete board for the bottom (4 ft high) and 3/4 plywood also horizontal above it. My plan is exactly that, once the foam is sprayed. And I'll top it with regular insulation to fill out the gap. The biggest difference will be the roof insulation and sealing the air leaks in the structure. But here in Texas, everything helps.

With the foam, if you can go a little heavier on the roof, three inches would be better. Make sure to also use insulated doors, makes a big difference.

I have never put a gfci on ay welding plug by an outside door or anywhere else.  I would not use a 6-circuit panel for a metal welding shop. I would not worry about the six throws of the hand rule because your service is on the house.  I would get at least a main lug only 12 circuit and put a 100 amp plug in reverse fed main if you really must.  If you do any half as serious work in that shop you will want an air compressor and welder and plasma cutter.   You will run two at a time. 70 is min. better to go 100. I do agree on putting the welding outlet by the door to weld outside when you want but the GFCI is expensive and will not save your machine from water if it gets rained on.

I dont know your eve height but i would go at least 14 feet to keep it cooler in the summer and I would not use strip Leds.  I would go with 150-200 watt pendant type.  Good n the 2 inch pipe for the future but two inch pvc is expensive right now and you could downgrade to 1.25 for 70 amps or even 1inch.

I don't know if you addressed the possibility of floor plugs or stub ups for your tables but I would think about stubbing up spare conduits .

Edit saw ten foot wall.  I would raise that four foot at min.  your door will be too short and the heat will be to close to your work space and get a dampered ridge vent too.  let that heat out.

Good stuff here.  Thanks

Let me clarify a little.  
We are putting up a red iron building, for storage and to have a general workshop and reloading bench.  I did not mean to imply it would be a dedicated Metal Working or Welding shop.
I've got a crackerbox and torch, put historically they do not get used very often...maybe more once, I have a better shop, but I do not see serious metal fabrication happening.  

Got the HOA approval yesterday.  No extra requirements and they are ok with the 4/12 roof pitch.

We've narrowed it down to two quotes on the slab and structure.  There is about 2 grand difference between the quotes.   I've looked a  building done by the more expensive guy.  I'm asking the cheaper guy for a couple of references.  I want to talk to his customers and see his work.  There is usually a reason for a 10% difference in quotes when there is competition in a market.

I put two complete 2" conduits in my slab and ran both all the way to the source. Wasn't really that expensive, but the ability to run things into the shop without tearing any thing up was well worth it. I capped both ends off on the extra one, but it would be easy to pop the caps and run co-ax, network cable, water line, generator wires, or whatever. Make sure you use "long" sweep conduit to make pushing/pulling wires easier.

I used four large LED light fixtures for my 30x40. I think they ran $150 each but put out a huge amount of light. I also wired for ceiling fans and placed boxes. I'll get to the fans when I have time to install them. Another of those things you don't think about but function and look really good: I painted my red iron before the tin was installed. Huge difference in the look and feel of the shop. Having the metal protected behind the tin is also nice.

Outside pic-


Inside-

Nice look on the inside!  I did not think about boxes for ceiling fans...I'm adding that to my electrical drawing right now.  

I got a decent quote from this place.

https://www.metalwarehouseinc.com/

Im sure it will be fine. Just things i have noticed being in the electrical business for a while.  The floor plugs are no real expense to do before you pour. but i have installed them in my house after and it is a messy and expensive.  If you have any idea where you might want one just stub up some plastic pipe and add one later.

Pad was build up, leveled, and compacted before the rain\snow last week.

The concrete guys are supposed to be here in the next couple of days for form and pour the slab.
> Other than the incoming power and two tie-down points, I'm not putting anything else in the slab
> Had considered roughing in for a toilet and sink in one corner, but after some reflection, I decided not to do that.  Because of the grade, it would require pit outside and a grinder pump to get it back to the septic.  Not worth it for the 40' walk to the garage door.

 

@Cyclic
What is the thought behind the concrete board for the lower 4'?  Is that just for moisture resistance, or is there another reason?

My floor will be 8" above the outside grade, with good drainage and no flooding worries.  Regardless if I use OSB or plywood on the walls, my plan is to keep the lower edge 1/2" off the concrete.

I'm not planning on using vertical 2x4s behind the wall. There is a horizontal purlin at about 7' 8" and another one at  about 4'.  I plan on putting a piece of angle along the floor, even with the purlins and attaching the plywood directly to the steel with self tapping screws.
At this size building, there will be only one vertical beam in the middle of each wall. I don't care if that sticks out past the plywood
Is there a downside to this I am missing?

Several things, first is moisture as you mentioned. It's nice to be able to every now and then to hose off the crap. As I'm putting ALL electrical above the 4' line, no worries with cutting outlets into the board. next big thing is FIRE resistance. Weld sparks and flames are pretty much a zero concern with concrete boards. Most fuel vapors keep low, so having no electric low and concrete board lowers the chances by a huge amount. My plan is no wood actually touching the concrete floor. Angle iron for the bottom attachment, chalked in place, and the vertical 2x4's also 1/2 inch over floor. No issues not using the verticals, I just really like having my vertical joints supported and a thermal brake with the building. With mine being every 2 foot, it gives the plywood more support for loads and helps with warping.   Again, that's my OCD hitting hard. I use my shop for everything. Welding, grinding, painting, wood working, car/truck/bike/equipment mechanic, hide from the wife spot, ect. There is absolutely no problems with your plan. I've seen it done many times. I always look to what I can do to improve for a moderate cost increase over the "base" line.  Painting the red iron frame before tin was one example. Everyone who's seen mine, slaps their head and says they should have done it.    One trick I liked but wouldn't work for me was trimming the plywood to be even with the top purlin. Then taking that piece and attaching it horizontally on top of that purlin, overhanging the plywood, making a complete perimeter shelf. Sounds like for you wouldn't be enough with the heights yours is at. But splitting a 4x8 sheet into long 16" wide strips would give the shelf to you, as long as you trimmed the vertical plywood even with the purlin top.

Skipping the bathroom is ok, but seriously consider water and a simple wash sink. It being grey water can simply drain into the yard in most places, or a simple leach basin. The ability to wash up yourself before leaving the shop is a huge improvement. Hot water for washing a vehicle and yourself is extremely nice. Hot water cleans stuff much better.  You could also just rough-in for the toilet and shower and then cap them, just incase it ever gets to the point you decide you want it. Rough in is cheap, especially compared to jacking the slab for a re-do.

ETA: you could just do the sink and shower, then put a composting toilet in there. Keeps it all grey water without the septic issues.

I've thought about putting in just a sink. One of the freestanding laundry room types that is 18" deep or so, and  I've got a portable tankless propane water heater that I use with my pressure washer.  It's probably is worth stubbing a water up in the corner.

I need to find out if that changes the property appraisal in this county.  I believe I read somewhere that heated\cooled without water and sanitary facilities was appraised lower, since it was not a "Livable" structure.

After a couple of weeks delay due to rain, the slab was poured this week.  The crew should be here Monday or Tuesday to do the iron, then the sheeting crew the next day.

Picking up the stuff for the electrical was an eye opener.  Everything has gone up and some stuff was hard to find.

...but I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.  I'll have my garage back before the end of March  

Who did you use for concrete if you recommend them that is.

I ended up going with TX Builders, from here in Springtown.  He is doing everything, including the grade work and concrete.    I priced it out separately and Lance a little higher (couple of hundred) for turnkey, but I felt it was worth it for sole source responsivity.   I had a friend that bought the steel, contracted the slab, then contracted the building erection separately.  There were lots of problems and finger pointing with that route.

I think Lance farmed out the contract work.  I will try to get a name from him.  I know the concrete was delivered by two guys that own their own trucks.

The finish on the slab is better than the finish in my garage.


The welders showed up at 7:30 this morning with a crew of 6.  They are making quick work of the frame.

As expected, the 12' door was not arrived yet.  They were going over to a previous job, with the same brand of door, to measure the dimensions to frame out for.

Excellent. Very happy for you.

Having a shop was such a huge improvement for me. Being able to let a project sit during times where I'm busy elsewhere is priceless.   Can't really do that in a driveway or carport without it looking like a junk yard or more damage occuring.

So the building is done, except for the 12' insulated door. That is rumored to be here in the next couple of days.

My goal is to get the electrical completed this weekend, so I can schedule the spray foam insulation guy next week. It's going to be wired better than my house, and almost airtight.





I'm putting 8' of T&G Plywood or OSB board on the walls. Above 8 will probably remain uncovered, but may get painted.

The side walls are 10', with about 13' clearance in the center. That gives me enough height for a floor mounted lift...if I win the lottery.

This kind of shop has been a wish list thing for a long time. I'm thankful to be able to afford to do it.... it does not hurt that my wife wants to reclaim the spare bedroom that I have taken over for reloading.

I think my Brittany is trying to claim it as an oversized doghouse. He has already moved in several of his toys and a collection of sticks.

Nice!  But be careful about making things 'air tight'.   If it has HVAC thats good but you dont want moisture to accumulate and vapors if you store a vehicle or anything combustible.  The slab can contribute to the moisture depending on how it was done too.

Looks like your going to have a pretty  nice building.

OP,,I put our shop in before we built our retirement place. Shop is 12 years old now. The ONE thing I splurged on was to have one of the four roll up doors an automatic door. I can't tell you how nice that it is to be able to step into the shop right out of my truck and not get wet. I keep a "clicker" on the tractor, in the CanAm, in my truck and in the wifes' car. Money WELL spent.

 

The slab was poured with a poly barrier under it.

My reloading bench and gear is going in there, plus  some stuff that needs to stay out of the extrema heat and humidity.  We're putting a mini-split to keep is 80'ish in the summer and above freezing in the winter.  The unit has humidity control.

No intent on storing a vehicle...just a place to change the oil or work on one.  I have one gable framed out for a louvered exhaust fan, for the time we want to open the overhead door and need ventilation.

Yea.  I have not bought on opener yet, but I put a ceiling outlet in .

Fuck I am sore....spent the weekend doing the electrical in the shop.  I've gotten soft and old. It's been years since if have done that much overhead work from a ladder.

I miscalculated on the Home Depot trip last week.  I came up short one GFCI receipical and one deep 4x4 box, but everything else is done.  There are outlets closer together in the shop than any room in my house...almost as many outlets circuits as the entire house.
.
Ended up with seven 4' high output led fixtures, which is good for the open area.  Still have not bought fixtures for above the work workbench and the reloading bench, but the wire and boxes are already installed.

As expected, there is zero cell signal, unless you hold your phone up to the west facing windows.  I already have the cell phone booster, I just need to figure out how to mount the external antenna.  Need a plan for Wifi in the shop. I may try a power line ethernet extender.

You did run the extra conduit I said to, right?

Right about now your thinking a network wire run to the shop with a wifi access point, would fix the cellphone and internet issues pretty quick.

I went the booster route but was never satisfied with the performance.

Eventually what I did for cell signal is got a point-to-point from the residence to my metal building.

Then changed the settings on the phone to use WIFI for calls.

Nextlink out of Weatherford

The back porch wraps all the way around the back of the house.  When I had that added a  year ago,  I had conduit run under the slab. A 2" conduit run for propane to the generator's location and a 2" from the garage, near the electrical service.  Should have added a third .

I'm trying one of the house wiring extenders first.  The fall back is cable.   To run ethernet cable to the shop, I'd need to try to fish the cable alongside the yellow poly gas line ...it should be doable.  The gas line outside diameter is right at 3/4", and its in 2" conduit.

Go ahead and fish in a cat 6 wire. You will not be disappointed. Then get one of these (Ubiquiti)  Simple plug and play or configure it how ever you want. Best wifi access point in my opinion, for the money. Between giving you signal for internet and providing for the cell access, you will be happy. No booster needed.

That is what I a leaning toward for wifi

I put a pair of the Ubiquiti Lites in the house.  I am under-impressed. The coverage was really poor...they seem to be a one-room device.   One sheetrock wall and 10' away and I was having trouble staying connected

I would not build anything smaller than 40'x40'.  Also I added roll up doors on both north and south side of building for air flow.  Made a huge difference in summer.

Weird, I have one inside my pool house. I get good signal from it, even in my main house. Covers the entire pool area and hot tub nicely.

ETA: looks like I linked the lite version, I have the full Unifi version.

I need to do a little grade work around the outside and still have to run the conduit to the load center in the house.

I'm trying to get the insulation guy scheduled for next week, then we will put up 8' plywood or osb on the interior walls, and blow a coat of paint on the exposed foam above 8' and the underside of the roof.

I have not ordered the mini-spit yet, but the wiring is already run.

My wife is already complaining that I did not order the building with a garage door opener.  "No Problem!"...but now it her "Scope Creep" expense.

Insulation as done three weeks ago.



I had to order the #4 copper to run the power from the main panel in the house.  Got that in last weekend.

Built a bracket for the mini-split compressor and got that mounted this weekend. I need to get three sheets of OSB up on the back wall before I can install the inside unit for the AC.

It's slow going...lots of work travel this time of year,  5 out of 7 weeks on the road (convention & trade show season).  That is a young man's game, so when I am at home on the weekend I am dead tired and there is a ton of other stuff that must be done.

Off to OKC this week for another industry event, then it's over for a while.  Maybe I can get the AC in next weekend.

it looks good

Not gonna church it up,  your electrician is a hack!  

Looks good otherwise

I want to be able to hang shit anywhere on the walls, so going with T&G OSB 8' up the walls.  First three sheets had to go up to mount the AC.

Ac is installed and running...I am VERY pleases with that.  Less than 2 hours to install and start up, and that includes letting it set for 45 min with a vacuum pulled on it.
Pioneer 22 Seer inverter heat pump. Compressor is mounted to the wall instead of sitting on the ground (out of danger from my wife her zero turn

Cooled it down Saturday night, then checked the power usage on Sunday and Monday. 99 degree high on Sun, 97 degrees on Monday. Inside temp set a 76 and it averaged $0.90/day in electric cost.  I can live with that.  Probably set it a 78 in the summer and 60 in the winter and just leave it running 24/7.




Now that the AC is running, getting the rest of the OSB up inside will be a much nicer experience.

Wife wants the walls painted gray and the windows trimmed out, so I am leaving that part to her.  I figure she will get fed up with priming the OSB and give up after a panel or two.

The OSB is up on all the walls.

Wife started priming it .  
She did two and a half panels, plus a bunch of random places,  on Saturday and has not touched it against since. Typical of her projects.  I was good with no paint, but now  partially primed in bright white looks like shit.  I'll end up having to finish it.

I't be another couple of weeks before I can move shit out of the garage.

Looks good!

I was originally going to go with a 20x30 or 20x20 but then someone told me I'd always fill it up and to go bigger so I went with a 30x50.

And now it's almost 30% filled up, one year later.

Who did your insulation?

I need to do that in mine.

Having a shop is probably one of the best mental health projects I've ever had.

3A Foam Specialist

Looks great, man! I'm so jealous.