ok,  let's say "hypothetically" my roommate's ex girlfriends boyfriend comes over to our apartment and attempts to start something(lots of drama there, don't want to get into it). chances are he'll be unarmed but he's well trained in martial arts

at what point am I able to take action?

deadly force may be used to stop unlauful deadly force.

Quoted: ok,  let's say "hypothetically" my roommate's ex girlfriends boyfriend comes over to our apartment and attempts to start something(lots of drama there, don't want to get into it). chances are he'll be unarmed but he's well trained in martial arts at what point am I able to take action?

Probably not too long after the point where you or your roommate are stupid enough to open the door...

Please please please dont listen to anyone here.


Read the law for yourself.

You cannot possibly describe all the subtle nuances of the totallity of the crcumstances, to let anyone here guide you on the instant in which you can take another life:

www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.01.00

(3)  "Deadly force" means force[0] that is intended or known by the actor to cause, or in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing, death or serious bodily injury.

§ 9.04.  THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE.  The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter.  For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

§ 9.22.  NECESSITY.  Conduct is justified if:                               (1)  the actor reasonably believes the conduct is immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm; (2)  the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm clearly outweigh, according to ordinary standards of reasonableness, the harm sought to be prevented by the law proscribing the conduct;  and (3)  a legislative purpose to exclude the justification claimed for the conduct does not otherwise plainly appear.

§ 9.31.  SELF-DEFENSE.  (a)  Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. (b)  The use of force against another is not justified:                         (1)  in response to verbal provocation alone;                                 (2)  to resist an arrest or search that the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, even though the arrest or search is unlawful, unless the resistance is justified under Subsection (c); (3)  if the actor consented to the exact force used or attempted by the other; (4)  if the actor provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force, unless: (A)  the actor abandons the encounter, or clearly communicates to the other his intent to do so reasonably believing he cannot safely abandon the encounter;  and (B)  the other nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful force against the actor;  or (5)  if the actor sought an explanation from or discussion with the other person concerning the actor's differences with the other person while the actor was: (A)  carrying a weapon in violation of Section 46.02;  or                   (B)  possessing or transporting a weapon in violation of Section 46.05.     (c)  The use of force to resist an arrest or search is justified:             (1)  if, before the actor offers any resistance, the peace officer (or person acting at his direction) uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search;   and (2)  when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the peace officer's (or other person's) use or attempted use of greater force than necessary. (d)  The use of deadly force is not justified under this subchapter except as provided in Sections 9.32, 9.33, and 9.34. Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.   Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994;  Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 190, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. § 9.32.  DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.  (a)  A person is justified in using deadly force against another: (1)  if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; (2)  if a reasonable person in the actor's situation would not have retreated;  and (3)  when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary: (A)  to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force;  or (B)  to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery. (b)  The requirement imposed by Subsection (a)(2) does not apply to an actor who uses force against a person who is at the time of the use of force committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of the actor. Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.   Amended by Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 5316, ch. 977, § 5, eff. Sept. 1, 1983;  Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994;  Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 235, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. § 9.33.  DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON.  A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect a third person if: (1)  under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect;  and (2)  the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person. Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.   Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994. § 9.34.  PROTECTION OF LIFE OR HEALTH.  (a)  A person is justified in using force, but not deadly force, against another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent the other from committing suicide or inflicting serious bodily injury to himself. (b)  A person is justified in using both force and deadly force against another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force or deadly force is immediately necessary to preserve the other's life in an emergency. Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.   Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.

i would prevent it if possible


it's an "ex" not a present so there isnt any reason to me. let it go.

Quoted: i would prevent it if possible it's an "ex" not a present so there isnt any reason to me. let it go.

I agree, if he is actually going to threathen your life than let it go.

And why even let him in? Talk outside or even better through the door.

If he has threatened you already, call the police.  Make a paper trail in case anything does happen.  You'll already have proof that there were threats etc.

Quoted: quick question about using lethal force

There are no quick questions about lethal force.


ETA: Erm..... read what FALARAK wrote.

P.S. Does that advice pertain to your own post, FAL?

Quoted: Quoted: ok,  let's say "hypothetically" my roommate's ex girlfriends boyfriend comes over to our apartment and attempts to start something(lots of drama there, don't want to get into it). chances are he'll be unarmed but he's well trained in martial arts at what point am I able to take action? Probably not too long after the point where you or your roommate are stupid enough to open the door...

EXACTLY..Don't invite the damn trouble.

Then at your murder trial, the D.A. will introduce into evidence copies of a thread from ar15.com titled "Quick Question About Using Lethal Force"..

Good move dude!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: ok,  let's say "hypothetically" my roommate's ex girlfriends boyfriend comes over to our apartment and attempts to start something(lots of drama there, don't want to get into it). chances are he'll be unarmed but he's well trained in martial arts at what point am I able to take action? Probably not too long after the point where you or your roommate are stupid enough to open the door... EXACTLY..Don't invite the damn trouble. Then at your murder trial, the D.A. will introduce into evidence copies of a thread from ar15.com titled "Quick Question About Using Lethal Force".. Good move dude!

trust me,  I have no intent on harming anyone.  I want to clarify what my rights are in this situation SHOULD something happen.

Quoted: trust me,  I have no intent on harming anyone.  I want to clarify what my rights are in this situation SHOULD something happen.

Rights?  We aren't talking about rights.

We are talking about how and when you can do something, and pray "the man" doesn't burn your ass for it.

Quoted: Please please please dont listen to anyone here.

This thread would have been a whole lot more entertaining if you would not have intervened with common sense.

Quoted: EXACTLY..Don't invite the damn trouble. Then at your murder trial, the D.A. will introduce into evidence copies of a thread from ar15.com titled "Quick Question About Using Lethal Force".. Good move dude!

But your honor, they all were non-board certified, legal advisors!!!  

Do like the cops do,shot the SOB and lay a throw away gun next to him.


TG

Quoted: Do like the cops do,shot the SOB and lay a throw away gun next to him. TG

I saw a Ruger P89 9mm yesterday for $200 cash.  Got me thinking about that throw down gun.  

Just too many other things I need with the $200.

Quoted: Quoted: EXACTLY..Don't invite the damn trouble. Then at your murder trial, the D.A. will introduce into evidence copies of a thread from ar15.com titled "Quick Question About Using Lethal Force".. Good move dude! But your honor, they all were non-board certified, legal advisors!!!

Actually, you're wrong.  All arfcommers are "board-certified" (i.e. certified by this board).  Those that aren't get banned.

Quoted: Just too many other things I need with the $200.

Man, I think of all the tricks I could pay for with that $200.......

You have already talked about it - you know right from wrong - walk away.
You do it and you probaby go down for murder.

Non-violence is the key to resolving conflict.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: EXACTLY..Don't invite the damn trouble. Then at your murder trial, the D.A. will introduce into evidence copies of a thread from ar15.com titled "Quick Question About Using Lethal Force".. Good move dude! But your honor, they all were non-board certified, legal advisors!!!   Actually, you're wrong.  All arfcommers are "board-certified" (i.e. certified by this board).  Those that aren't get banned.

You gonna quote the Penal code too or just stuff it in your mouth?





j/k of course...

Quoted: Non-violence is the key to resolving conflict.

What a load of CRAP !!

And I will most likely go to jail for it, but so what, if someone bucks up on me than its FIGHT time.

I was trained by some old school soldiers and they all said, Take care off business first then ask questions.

But that advice is for hand-to-hand, not for gun play. There is a huge difference. If someone is going to use a gun you better be ready for the worst outcome.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: EXACTLY..Don't invite the damn trouble. Then at your murder trial, the D.A. will introduce into evidence copies of a thread from ar15.com titled "Quick Question About Using Lethal Force".. Good move dude! But your honor, they all were non-board certified, legal advisors!!!   Actually, you're wrong.  All arfcommers are "board-certified" (i.e. certified by this board).  Those that aren't get banned. You gonna quote the Penal code too or just stuff it in your mouth? j/k of course...

Fucker!  Now that I've read that twice (second time's the charm), I'm still laughing.....

Quoted: Fucker!  Now that I've read that twice (second time's the charm), I'm still laughing.....

I know its stupid funny but without 3rd humor we would have no fun in any legal post....

Quoted: Quoted: Fucker!  Now that I've read that twice (second time's the charm), I'm still laughing..... I know its stupid funny but without 3rd humor we would have no fun in any legal post....

Uh huh huh huh...... "penal code".....

Quoted: ok,  let's say "hypothetically" my roommate's ex girlfriends boyfriend comes over to our apartment and attempts to start something(lots of drama there, don't want to get into it). chances are he'll be unarmed but he's well trained in martial arts at what point am I able to take action?

If you shot him and he died and I was at your trial and there was not some stitches and broken bones from an assault by him and you said he verbally said he would beat you to death with his "martial arts skillz"and you shot the boyfriend and had opened the door (he did not break it down) I would vote guilty and give you the death penalty because I would believe you had planned it.  Not kidding.

If he broke down the door or you or the GF had stitches or broken bones Id vote not guilty.  Martial arts and threats dont mean shit unless the guy is beating someone to death.

Quoted: Quoted: ok,  let's say "hypothetically" my roommate's ex girlfriends boyfriend comes over to our apartment and attempts to start something(lots of drama there, don't want to get into it). chances are he'll be unarmed but he's well trained in martial arts at what point am I able to take action? If you shot him and he died and I was at your trial and there was not some stitches and broken bones from an assault by him and you said he verbally said he would beat you to death with his "martial arts skillz"and you shot the boyfriend and had opened the door (he did not break it down) I would vote guilty and give you the death penalty because I would believe you had planned it.  Not kidding. If he broke down the door or you or the GF had stitches or broken bones Id vote not guilty.  Martial arts and threats dont mean shit unless the guy is beating someone to death.

do i hear "throw down"?  

Quoted: Quoted: ok,  let's say "hypothetically" my roommate's ex girlfriends boyfriend comes over to our apartment and attempts to start something(lots of drama there, don't want to get into it). chances are he'll be unarmed but he's well trained in martial arts at what point am I able to take action? If you shot him and he died and I was at your trial and there was not some stitches and broken bones from an assault by him and you said he verbally said he would beat you to death with his "martial arts skillz"and you shot the boyfriend and had opened the door (he did not break it down) I would vote guilty and give you the death penalty because I would believe you had planned it.  Not kidding. If he broke down the door or you or the GF had stitches or broken bones Id vote not guilty.  Martial arts and threats dont mean shit unless the guy is beating someone to death.

Sounds  "board-certified"  to me

Wonder if I can use Arfcom to get out of Jury duty....

"Sure, it's in the Constitution, son!"

sorry for the high jack but maybe this story might help you in a way?

This past Christmas, a drunk driving guy followed me , my wife and baby.  It was night time and the guy followed us all the way to my mother n laws house.  I didnt noticed he was flowing us until he almost rammed our car as I parked.  

He got off with  a beer in his hand and something else on the other.  I couldnt see. I told my wife to stay in the car with our son.  My sidearm was in the trunk, I  opened the trunk as he was yelling at me to come over there now! He was too high and drunk to noticed I strapped my fobus and gun to my side.  The guy kept yelling at me to go over there or else.  I told him "I dont know you, go home, get out of here."  They guy got mad and said "Im coming over there.  I told him to STOP, and brandished my gun.  

By this time my wife was getting our baby out of the car and going inside to call the police. The guy paused and did a double take and said "WHAT IS THAT"?  I told him its a firearm, please leave!  The guy said "your a cop huh?  "  WELL KILL ME THEN !!!!!  KILL ME!!!  and he proceeded to walk my way.  

Now at this time I was confused , while my hand was on my side arm.  I thought to myself, "should I pop him on the knee, leg, arm?"  I am a big guy, 265lbs 6'2''. and he was a big guy too.  I thought that wont look good in court.  Well I didnt want to kill him, so I decided to fight him.  He only had a beer in his hand nothing else on the other hand.  I moved my side arm to a 4 o'clock position and got ready.  
I had a surefire flashlight so I  pulled it out and and blinded him....guess what, that did it.  It was as if I sprayed him or something.  I dont know what drugs the man took but he kept saying "Im F**cked up! " Kill me!!" and stayed back, the flashlight  worked,  the guy stayed back, by this time the police were coming and the guy got in his truck and took off.  I dont know if they caught him, but the police asked me a few questions and took off.  I'm glad the man didnt have a gun or weapon.  I didnt want to kill him or vice versa.  Or end up in court  or in jail.

I think if the guy would of had a gun and shot torwards my car first, then he would be history.  thanks for reading and please feel free to comment.