Been seeing a lot of gatherings and such. Lunches, shoots, dinners, Hun farm event. So do I just show up and say hi? How will I know whom to say hi to?

Just show up at one of the gatherings and ask, "I'm looking for the DFW Crew", that's all there is to it.  Also, if you like, get your contact info to Bung and he will put you on the Texas Contacts roster.

Yep, just show up and say hi.

For the gun show lunches, we usually meet at a certain spot, and any thread will show that spot.

Contact bung with your info, and h'll get you on the list.

Welcome

TXL

this weekend is the Hun farm event....

Quoted: this weekend is the Hun farm event....

 Holy sh!t.  Is it this weekend?

you better be there Doc

TXL

Quoted: you better be there Doc TXL

Yeah... what he said...


PS: I have lots of 9mm... hehe

Quoted: Been seeing a lot of gatherings and such. Lunches, shoots, dinners, Hun farm event. So do I just show up and say hi? How will I know whom to say hi to?

It is customary that you come bearing gifts!!!   And to buy lunch, of course!!!

We will haze you and slowly induct you into our "club".

Also, don't forget a full color portrait of yourself to give to ILIKELEGS to add into our "photoshop" database.  

Do you have a photo to share with us ?

if you are thinkin about going to an ETH shoot, i'd wait till july 4th, (more people are going then) or go to the memorial day weekend one, and the july 4th one.

check in with ETH first though!

Be sure to wear your ATF shirt.  You "work" with FALARAK, right?  

Fed?

Quoted: if you are thinkin about going to an ETH shoot, i'd wait till july 4th, (more people are going then) or go to the memorial day weekend one, and the july 4th one. check in with ETH first though!

How do you know more are going on July 4? Looks like more people are committed to this weekend, but you never know.

PS: Did you guys ever find the definition you claimed was in Chapter 46 of the TX penal code? (hint: its not there)

Quoted: PS: Did you guys ever find the definition you claimed was in Chapter 46 of the TX penal code? (hint: its not there)

Where you arguing with Cit's dad ?

Quoted: Quoted: if you are thinkin about going to an ETH shoot, i'd wait till july 4th, (more people are going then) or go to the memorial day weekend one, and the july 4th one. check in with ETH first though! How do you know more are going on July 4? Looks like more people are committed to this weekend, but you never know. PS: Did you guys ever find the definition you claimed was in Chapter 46 of the TX penal code? (hint: its not there)

he says when he gets to it, he'll look it up.  its not high on his priority list.  ofcourse arguing with a 15yr veteran of the Houston Police Dept. isnt the brightest thing...but i'll bring you the penal code on the 4th if your up there.

someone mentioned that more peeps would be up on the 4th anyway.  plus there always is more people on the forth.  plus fireworks!!! yeah i cant wait!

Quoted: he says when he gets to it, he'll look it up.  its not high on his priority list.  ofcourse arguing with a 15yr veteran of the Houston Police Dept. isnt the brightest thing...but i'll bring you the penal code on the 4th if your up there.

Just because he's a 15yr veteran does not mean he has every law memorized exactly as written-- I wouldn't expect him to anyway.

As for Ch46 of the TX penal code: already have a copy-- (it still hasn't changed) -- no definition of the word.

Quoted: Where you arguing with Cit's dad ?

Not really arguing, just want to know where to find the definition of the word. I know its not in the Penal Code (they keep telling me it is), but I would really like to know where to find it. Someone once said it was defined in case law, but where to begin searching there....?

007, it looks like you got the official invitation, it don't get any more golden than that.

If you can get free fri sat sun or mon, make the trip, quickest way to meet most of the folks, in an environement that we're friendliest.

If you interested, let us know, Most of us can get you directions.


Hope to meet/see ya there.

TXL

Quoted: 007, it looks like you got the official invitation, it don't get any more golden than that. If you can get free fri sat sun or mon, make the trip, quickest way to meet most of the folks, in an environement that we're friendliest. If you interested, let us know, Most of us can get you directions. Hope to meet/see ya there. TXL

I need directions. (Unless we're caravaning, in which case, just tell me where to meet up)

Quoted: Not really arguing, just want to know where to find the definition of the word. I know its not in the Penal Code (they keep telling me it is), but I would really like to know where to find it. Someone once said it was defined in case law, but where to begin searching there....?

All the Texas statues can be found here: www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/statutes.html

You can access the search function from that page.

What word are you trying to find the definition of? I have access to Lexis-Nexis.

Where is the Hun's farm located? I doubt I can go this weekend unless it's not too far from Dallas as Sunday is my wife's birthday.

Quoted: All the Texas statues can be found here: www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/statutes.html You can access the search function from that page. What word are you trying to find the definition of? I have access to Lexis-Nexis.

Yes, I know where the TX statutes can be found. They can also be found on various legal sites, but I go to the source: which happens to be the link you listed above.

The word "travelling" seems to be one of those terms which is not clearly defined in the TX Penal code (Ch. 46), which applies to concealing a handgun. Citbria & dad seem to think it is defined in the TX penal code, but I have yet to find it (since its not really there). They believe that it is defined as crossing three county lines-- I've heard this before, but it can never be confirmed in the statutes I have searched.

On another thread a while back, someone mentioned that maybe case-law has defined this (I think it was jadams(?) in Austin, or was it johninaustin?? I forget.), but I can never find where to look this information up...

Quoted: Quoted: he says when he gets to it, he'll look it up.  its not high on his priority list.  ofcourse arguing with a 15yr veteran of the Houston Police Dept. isnt the brightest thing...but i'll bring you the penal code on the 4th if your up there. Just because he's a 15yr veteran does not mean he has every law memorized exactly as written-- I wouldn't expect him to anyway. As for Ch46 of the TX penal code: already have a copy-- (it still hasn't changed) -- no definition of the word.

Actually your right and wrong at the same time.  since his retirment in 1995 the law has changed. your right the 3 counties are not there. It did used to be there and i can show you that since one of the law books he has is from 95.  but it has been removed. now it reads that you may carry if you are going to certain places.  IE: gunshows, shooting range, and back home.  But carrying it without a Concealed weapon permit is still illeagle weither its one county or from here to san antonio. hope that was clear enough...if its not, i'll tell him to write a responce in his own words.

Quoted: Quoted: All the Texas statues can be found here: www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/statutes.html You can access the search function from that page. What word are you trying to find the definition of? I have access to Lexis-Nexis. Yes, I know where the TX statutes can be found. They can also be found on various legal sites, but I go to the source: which happens to be the link you listed above. The word "travelling" seems to be one of those terms which is not clearly defined in the TX Penal code (Ch. 46), which applies to concealing a handgun. Citbria & dad seem to think it is defined in the TX penal code, but I have yet to find it (since its not really there). They believe that it is defined as crossing three county lines-- I've heard this before, but it can never be confirmed in the statutes I have searched. On another thread a while back, someone mentioned that maybe case-law has defined this (I think it was jadams(?) in Austin), but I can never find where to look this information up...

Jadams951 is in houston

Caselaw is what counts in court.  

when i get more info i will post it. but like i said, your not on dad's priority list. lol

i know my other responce was probably confusing but i'll find out other information later.

Quoted: The word "travelling" seems to be one of those terms which is not clearly defined in the TX Penal code (Ch. 46), which applies to concealing a handgun. Citbria & dad seem to think it is defined in the TX penal code, but I have yet to find it (since its not really there). They believe that it is defined as crossing three county lines-- I've heard this before, but it can never be confirmed in the statutes I have searched.

I think it might be found on either the DPS site or the Attorney General's site in the form of an AG opinion.

The definition of "travelling" as it has been explained to me is when crossing 2 or more county lines and staying over night.

Travelling and carrying a large sun of cash are still affirmative defenses for carrying concealed in Texas. The CHL law did not repeal those. BTW, a "large sum of cash" is a relative term. There is no defined amount. There was a case in Waco where a homeless guy got off because he was carrying $5! For him $5 was a large sum of cash.



It seems the Hun's farm location is some kind of secret as I've asked the question as well as seen others ask but have yet to see an answer... how about what county is it in?

It's just north of Crowell, TX on HWY 6.

Thanx for the invite Eric. However, I must respectfully bow out this go around. I have family coming.

As far as the pics. I have been lurking here long enough to know not to post one lest I plan on having a pic of me in a pink tutu. I will try to make it at the next gunshow. Seems like you guys are a great bunch. I look forward to meeting ya'll

Quoted: Actually your right and wrong at the same time.  since his retirment in 1995 the law has changed. your right the 3 counties are not there. It did used to be there and i can show you that since one of the law books he has is from 95.  but it has been removed. now it reads that you may carry if you are going to certain places.  IE: gunshows, shooting range, and back home.  But carrying it without a Concealed weapon permit is still illeagle weither its one county or from here to san antonio. hope that was clear enough...if its not, i'll tell him to write a responce in his own words.

I am not really asking him for the response: I am asking you.

You both stated it was there and clearly defined within the TX Penal Code. I stated it was not. I don't care what the law books stated 8+ years ago. We were talking about now and within the past couple years... A lot can change since then.

I've heard several variants of the 2+ county rule.
1. 3 county lines
2. 2 or more county lines
3. 2/3 county lines, must stay overnight
4. Only if you have a large sum of cash, which might also be considered drug money since they cops can say whatever they like...
5. Must be going directly to a place where the firearm will be usd legally, i.e. shooting range, gun store, etc.
6. etc. etc.

...each cop has his own opinion of what the law is, which is why I would like to know EXACTLY who is right.

Quoted: Actually your right and wrong at the same time.  since his retirment in 1995 the law has changed. your right the 3 counties are not there. It did used to be there and i can show you that since one of the law books he has is from 95.  but it has been removed. now it reads that you may carry if you are going to certain places.  IE: gunshows, shooting range, and back home.  But carrying it without a Concealed weapon permit is still illeagle weither its one county or from here to san antonio. hope that was clear enough...if its not, i'll tell him to write a responce in his own words.

Actually, I looked it up just now, and you are incorrect about how it reads as of today. It still reads pretty much the same as I was thinking.

Let me show you:

46.02. Unlawful Carrying Weapons

        (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun,
illegal knife, or club.

        (b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under
this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

        (c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third
degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or
issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.


46.15. Nonapplicability

        (a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:

        (1) peace officers and neither section prohibits a peace
officer from carrying a weapon in this state, regardless of whether
the officer is engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's
duties while carrying the weapon;

        (2) parole officers and neither section prohibits an officer
from carrying a weapon in this state if the officer is:

        (A) engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's duties
while carrying the weapon;  and

        (B) in compliance with policies and procedures adopted by the
Texas Department of Criminal Justice regarding the possession of a
weapon by an officer while on duty;

        (3) community supervision and corrections department officers
appointed or employed under Section 76.004, Government Code, and
neither section prohibits an officer from carrying a weapon in this
state if the officer is:

        (A) engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's duties
while carrying the weapon;  and

        (B) authorized to carry a weapon under Section 76.0051,
Government Code;  or

        (4) a judge or justice of the supreme court, the court of
criminal appeals, a court of appeals, a district court, a criminal
district court, a constitutional county court, a statutory county
court, a justice court, or a municipal court who is licensed to
carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411,
Government Code.

        (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

Text of subd. (1) as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1221,  4
                               
        (1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member
of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section
431.001, Government Code, or as an employee of a penal institution
who is performing a security function;

Text of subd. (1) as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261, 
                              28
                               
        (1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member
of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section
431.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal
institution;

        (2) is on the person's own premises or premises under the
person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of the
owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility is to
act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or
property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision
(5);

        (3) is traveling;

Text of subd. (4) as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1221,  4
                               
        (4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting
activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted,
or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, if
the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

Text of subd. (4) as added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261, 
                              28
                               
        (4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting
activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted,
or is directly en route between the premises and the actor's
residence, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

        (5) holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas
Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies, if:

        (A) the person is engaged in the performance of the person's
duties as a security officer or traveling to and from the person's
place of assignment;

        (B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform;  and

        (C) the weapon is in plain view;

        (6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued
under Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes, to carry a concealed
handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying;

        (7) holds a security officer commission and a personal
protection authorization issued by the Texas Board of Private
Investigators and Private Security Agencies and who is providing
personal protection under the Private Investigators and Private
Security Agencies Act (Article 4413(29bb), Vernon's Texas Civil
Statutes);  or

        (8) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an
employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if
the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or
licensed premises.

        (c) The provision of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of
a club does not apply to a noncommissioned security guard at an
institution of higher education who carries a nightstick or similar
club, and who has undergone 15 hours of training in the proper use
of the club, including at least seven hours of training in the use
of the club for nonviolent restraint.  For the purposes of this
subsection, "nonviolent restraint" means the use of reasonable
force, not intended and not likely to inflict bodily injury.

        (d) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying
of a firearm or carrying of a club do not apply to a public
security officer employed by the adjutant general under Section
431.029, Government Code, in performance of official duties or
while traveling to or from a place of duty.

        (e) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying
of an illegal knife do not apply to an individual carrying a bowie
knife or a sword used in a historical demonstration or in a
ceremony in which the knife or sword is significant to the
performance of the ceremony.

        (f) Section 46.03(a)(6) does not apply to a person who
possesses a firearm or club while in the actual discharge of
official duties as:

        (1) a member of the armed forces or state military forces, as
defined by Section 431.001, Government Code;  or

        (2) an employee of a penal institution.

PS: I am not 100% sure, but it *looks* like the "is traveling" text in section 46.15.b.3 was never ammended, as you will see other text lines will state when they were changed and with which session of the legislature. Therefore, this section should still be the same in law books dated in 1995.

after i get a good nights rest i'll reply to this.

Quoted: It's just north of Crowell, TX on HWY 6.

Thanks Frisco. Definitely too far from East Texas for a 1-day trip (7 hours). Maybe I can make the July trip. I have in-laws in Wichita falls.

Well, unfortunately you are WRONG.  Case law is used in courts all of the time.  However, using case law is illegal because judges cannot legislate, but there is no Judicial Accountability so they get away with it.

Quoted: Caselaw is what counts in court.   when i get more info i will post it. but like i said, your not on dad's priority list. lol i know my other responce was probably confusing but i'll find out other information later.

MOVE the case law and TRAVELING topic to another thread please!

HIJACK!

hi·jack also high·jack    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (hjk) Informal
tr.v. hi·jacked, hi·jack·ing, hi·jacks

To stop and rob (a vehicle in transit).
To steal (goods) from a vehicle in transit.
To seize control of (a moving vehicle) by use of force, especially in order to reach an alternate destination.

To steal from as if by hijacking.
To swindle or subject to extortion.

n.
The act or an instance of hijacking.

sorry 007 for participating in the Hijack...
but glad you are here...hope to meet you at a gathering - Dave & Buster's on Jun 11th is probably the next group dinner...details to follow

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=8&t=169783&page=1

Quoted: MOVE the case law and TRAVELING topic to another thread please!

No fucking shit.

dont bother moving it to a new thread.  just IM me about it energizer

Don't mind the hijack cause its a good topic.

Bear in mind that "travelling" provision is a right to defense. It is not a right to carry. Meaning that if caught you will still be charged a felony unlicensed carry of handgun and your handgun confistacated. You will then have to prove in court that you are "travelling"

Why not just get a CHL. This is a "shall issue" state just in case you guys don't know already his
If you are under 21, just carry a shotgun with you. Hell you can open carry that is most cities and towns in TX.

Quoted: dont bother moving it to a new thread.  just IM me about it energizer

That's okay-- I already know the answer.

Quoted: Bear in mind that "travelling" provision is a right to defense. It is not a right to carry. Meaning that if caught you will still be charged a felony unlicensed carry of handgun and your handgun confistacated. You will then have to prove in court that you are "travelling"

But the law clearly states in 46.15 that if traveling, that unlawful carry 46.02 does not apply.


46.02. Unlawful Carrying Weapons

(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun,
illegal knife, or club.


46.15. Nonapplicability
...
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
...
(3) is traveling;


BTW: If you are traveling, this means that not only can you carry handguns, but you can also carry automatic knives, including butterfly knives, baseball bats, etc.

Notice in 46.02a, that if you are carrying it recklessly, that 46.15 (not just traveling, but other circumstances too) is a defense to prosecution too! hehe...

The 2nd Amendment trumps all those laws.  Carry it anyway.

PS: this is why I suggested putting it on the case-back of the AR15.com watch!

Quoted: Don't mind the hijack cause its a good topic. Bear in mind that "travelling" provision is a right to defense. It is not a right to carry. Meaning that if caught you will still be charged a felony unlicensed carry of handgun and your handgun confistacated. You will then have to prove in court that you are "travelling" Why not just get a CHL. This is a "shall issue" state just in case you guys don't know already Look at it this way. Spend $150 + class fee for a CHL. Or spend $500+ for court cost and lawyer fees defending yourself for "traveling". Not to mention time off from work. If you are under 21, just carry a shotgun with you. Hell you can open carry that is most cities and towns in TX.

The word "travelling" seems to be one of those terms which is not clearly defined in the TX Penal code (Ch. 46), which applies to concealing a handgun. Citbria & dad seem to think it is defined in the TX penal code, but I have yet to find it (since its not really there). They believe that it is defined as crossing three county lines-- I've heard this before, but it can never be confirmed in the statutes I have searched..

It is not there and it has not been there since I moved to Texas 15 years ago. I doubt it was ever there, but cannot prove it. It is true Chapter 46 was re-organized in the mid-1990s, moving the defenses to prosecution from sub-sections of 46.02 & 46.03 to their own section in 46.15. But travelling has never been defined in the PC.

Where it does get defined is in the dozens of Case Law Decisions over the past 100 years. In each of these Cases, a Judge rules that Scenarios X is or is not "traveling". ANd so these get passed on. Here are some I know, of

1905 ~ __Fitzgerald v. State__: The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals ruled that a person who carries a pistol to and from a shop to have it repaired is not in violation of the state law prohibiting the carrying of weapons.

1912 ~ __Kellum v. State__: The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals ruled that upon obtaining a pistol, one may carry it home by the nearest practicable route and not be in violation of the state law prohibiting the carrying of weapons.

1916 ~ __Wagner v. State__: The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals ruled that a pistol is "about" one's person if the pistol can be reached without materially changing one's position.

1938 ~ __Davis v. State__: The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals ruled that nonhabitual carrying of a pistol between one's home and one's place of business is lawful if it is for a legitimate purpose.

1945 ~ __Smith v. State__: The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals ruled that one has a right to carry a pistol from his place of business to his home as long as one does not do so habitually.

1952 ~ __Henson v. State__: The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals ruled that one is in violation of state law if one delays while transporting a pistol to or from a place of repair.

1958 ~ __Boyett v. State__: The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals ruled that one's right to carry a pistol between his place of business and his home, when he has on his person a large amount of money, is destroyed if one deviates from the most direct route or stops more than momentarily.

There are hundreds more. I suggest
"The Right to Bear Arms in Texas: The Intent of the Framers of the Bill of Rights," by Stephen Halbrook, __Baylor Law Review__ (Vol. 41, 1989). for further reading.

Quoted: you will go to jail if you violate current written law.

Ummm... what I posted IS the current written law. However, many court cases seem to have various decisions on various laws, including the one we are currently discussing regarding "Traveling."

How can anybody know and obey all of the CURRENT WRITTEN laws when there are many case-laws that contradict the current laws, or have various decisions/outcomes?

The way I see it, if I follow and believe what the TX Penal Code states, then how can I be wrong? Afterall, this information is published so that I may know the CURRENT laws-- and judges can't legislate.

Thanks RenegadeX, I knew it wasn't listed in the Penal Code.

Case laws are very interesting...

the law is open to interpretation. your interpretation is wrong to most cops.  if I were you when you get stopped, I wouldn't be all "I know the law and that's how it is!" that's one way to get your ass thrown in jail.

you might beat the wrap...but you wont beat the ride.

Quoted: you might beat the wrap...but you wont beat the ride.

Amen!!! Getting your ass out of jail will cost you more than its worth.

Why even bother with the "traveling laws" TX is a shall issue state. If you have your CHL, no worries. Carry whenever you want.

See, that is one fine example of the cops breaking the laws.  Often times I hear them say, "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride."  An arrest in this case is obvious that the officer INTENDS to HARASS the law-abiding citizen.

Quoted: the law is open to interpretation. your interpretation is wrong to most cops.  if I were you when you get stopped, I wouldn't be all "I know the law and that's how it is!" that's one way to get your ass thrown in jail. you might beat the wrap...but you wont beat the ride.

I disagree.  Is it worth losing your rights or having to pay to get a "permit" to exercise your rights??
The 2nd Amendment trumps these laws.  The 2nd Amentment is very clear.
Ignoring the 2nd Amendment for arguments sake, the Texas law is clear.  According to Webster's the definition is clear and the law is clear.
It is the fuckers that harass you that want to muddy the definitions.
(btw: "travel" means to go from one place to another)

Quoted: Amen!!! Getting your ass out of jail will cost you more than its worth. Why even bother with the "traveling laws" TX is a shall issue state. If you have your CHL, no worries. Carry whenever you want.

So LT, the ones that DO NOT pay as much taxes get a discount on their permit to exercise their rights?
Disgusting.