Someone mentioned a topic dedicated to explaining the UK firearms laws, so here goes...

The UK Firearms Act is divided into sections:
Section 1 deals with rifles we are allowed to have, Section 5 is all the good stuff we aren't allowed to have ('Real' ARs, majority of pistols etc.). Section 7 is for 'Historic' guns - including pistols that can still be possessed, albeit a limited number of types and under pretty strict conditions. Other sections that are less interesting here deal with shotguns, expanding ammunition etc..

Theres a useful document from the Home Office (Like the UKs BATFE) on their website at 'Firearms Law: Guidance to the Police'. This covers pretty much everything you'd want to know about these different sections.

For an AR15 type rifle though, this is what we get:

All centre-fire semi-automatic & pump action rifles were banned a while back (Section 5). We were left with bolt action and lever actions (Section 1). So, a UK legal AR15 would be identical to a US one, but without a gas port - making it a bolt action. In reality, most UK guns are now being modified with a cocking handle fitted to the right side of the bolt carrier to aid operation. If you have an A2/A3 upper with a forward assist and a case deflector, then these are machined off and a slot added for the handle to run back in.

We aren't limited to any magazine capacity, so the Beta Cs are ok if you want one! Getting a silencer  isn't a problem either - usually granted on the grounds of health & safety to protect your hearing! Rifles can have collapsing stocks, bayo lugs, flash hiders etc. The barrel must be a minimum of 12", and the rifle must be a minimum of 24" long - at least, I think its 24"!!!h
Component parts of an AR that are controlled are the upper & lower, the bolt, firing pin, trigger mech and barrel. Although some parts are allowed to be sold to existing rifle owners as spares.

Ammunition is also controlled separately. With each calibre rifle held on your licence you are granted a certain number of rounds that you can buy in one transaction, as well as a total number of rounds that you can possess at any one time. when you buy ammunition it is noted by the dealer on his records and your licence. You can buy reloading components with no licence at all though! Obviously, you aren't supposed to make more rounds than you are allowed to possess, although you don't have to keep any records of what you make/shoot!

Theres loads more, but this has got to be a good starting point....and most of it is even correct .(probably! Nick

It's also worth mentioning that sometimes different Police authorities dealing with the issue of FAC's can and often do take differing views on certain issues. This can cause problems but my local Firearms dept are pretty good (Sout Wales Police) and even back in the days when I had pistols they were always very helpful. I have heard the neighbouring division (Gwent I think) is very poor at processing application/variations with excuses of undermanning. The local Police firearms liason chap that visits us here is a civilian but ex-police. He's not a shooter but is very knowelegable(as he needs to be) and it was a pleasure having him visit.

and Nick I agree there is plenty more..
but yea a good place to start...

is it worth covering the "brocock" debacle coz I certainly know that "that" law change was very poorly publisiced and how many people out there have them still but do not know they are commiting a crime?

Cheers

Taffy

Yep - I agree the Brocock thing was a farce. A friend of mine had one in the cupboard well after they had been banned - and was completely oblivious to the change in the law....

I just tried to concentrate on the AR related parts of the law.

Nick

let's just hope we don't suffer any further restrictions..

fingers crossed

Taffy

Ah Brococks! What a total F**king fiasco!!!!!

97,000 sold, only 6,000 accounted for!  

As I told my FEO when he was inspecting my super deadly .177 Brocock so he could put it on ticket. If I was a crim and wanted a pistol I would flash the cash and buy a proper  9mm or .357 for £250, not buy an air pistol for £300 and spend another £100 converting it to fire .22 Rimfires!!! He agreed…

Andy

Actually Nick, lowers are not controlled at all. They can be sold freely, as long as they don't contain any of the controlled parts (such as triggers, hammers etc.). This came direct from my FEO.

Matt

The classification of firearms by section as I remember (or believe) them to be, I may be wrong but I don't care.have
Section 1 - muzzle-loading pistols, rifles (semi auto - .22rimfire only, barrel >12", overall length >24"), shotguns (barrel(s) < 24", or barrel >24" and magazine holds >2 rounds)
Section 2 - shot guns (barrel>24", over all length>36", magazine holds 2 or less rounds)
Section 5 - all restricted firearms, ammunition, components
Section 6 - Trophies of War
Section 7 - various exemptions from Sect5, allowing the possession and/or ownership of what would be prohibited (historic or rarity grounds)
Section 8 - de-activated (de-mil) firearms

Lower recievers are Not controlled??  i thought that triggers and such like werent controlled and that only "presure bearing parts" were Matt,

James

Now i'm confused too!

I was always told upper, lower, bolt, barrel = FAC only, anything else is free purchase.

ANdy

I'm also confused. houghtEverything else is uncontrolled and overpriced.

SteveA

hmm i think i can see where matts Feo is going,

the only 2 parts of the ar that really BEAR PRESSURE are the barrel and the Bolt,

i cant see the point in having a spare stripped lower, but could see the point if you were allowd a spare built up lower, say to modify for a .22 conversion  

who makes your parts Matt??

James

Certain pressure bearing parts are controlled as 'firearms', ie they need specific authority. Other 'gun parts' are controlled like shotgun cartridges, ie the vender (RFD usually) needs to be convinced that you have the rifle that takes these parts and then you can have them as spares, etc.

Gun parts include flash hiders (many people miss this one and I know the Police check eBay for them) triggers, hammers, bolts (and associated carriers). Bolts don't need specific authority, you can have spares, and these are pressure bearing parts, Enfield owners can have several to adjust headspace.  Springs are not gun parts in the UK (but I think they are in the US) as are screws and other common parts.

Complete Uppers are classed as barrelled actions (same as a Rem700 with no stock) and to make a complete firearm you only need the stock (My FEO has stated that the stripped lower is not controlled but I'll not be selling them separately, if only to protect my Export License from the States - I cannot control where they go if they are not on ticket). The internals are classed as controlled items.

From 13.69 and 13.70 of the HO Guidance to the Police on Firearms Law:
Component parts of firearms are also
subject to certificate control, and may be
authorised if a shooter needs replacement
or interchangeable parts....
The term “component part” may be
held to include (i) the barrel, chamber,
cylinder, (ii) frame, body or receiver, (iii)
breech, block, bolt or other mechanism for
containing the charge at the rear of the
chamber (iv), any other part of the firearm
upon which the pressure caused by firing the
weapon impinges directly. Magazines, sights
and furniture are not considered component
parts. The 9th Report of the Firearms
Consultative Committee provides additional
information on this subject.

Flash hiders and any other part designed or adapted (I think the wording is like this) to reduce or diminish the sound or muzzle flash of firing are also controlled.

Check out the 9th FCC report, I only have copies of 11th and 12th so I cannot check just now.
I think you would find it hard to buy a stripped lower, but if you ask nicely I'll give you the number of the FEO who told me (not on line though)Matt

So…… were would you stand buying a lower from Germany were they are freely available to buy?

The firearms laws of this land never cease to amaze me though…

ANdy

it is a bit of a minefield....

I can't understand the control of "flash hiders"
unless it was fitted to a barell why would you want one...

now...."muzzle brakes" so I'm informed are not controled..

now when does a muzzle brake become a flash hider...hmm??

I fitted a muzzle brake to my 10/22 ....the main reason was it had a screwthread for a suppresor....and as i was not using one i wanted to protect the thread/crown...so after a while on a lathe...nice shiny muzzle brake...just as seen for sale by a few uk companies...now I was also told (Matt may be able shed some light)...that it did not need proofing/proving

define

silencer
suppresor
moderator
flash hider
muzzle brake

Taffy

IT (the Firearms act) confuses me too,

i mean if it was me, id say lower and upper reciever, bolt, bolt carrier and Barrel should be ticketed items,

springs pins  on sight of fac or even deac ticket for a deact,

flashhider... hmmmm tricky one, id say anyone with a lathe / mill ciould knock one up,

But hey im Not an RFD, and dont intend becomeing one untill i get really bored at my job!!

James,  

Quoted: it is a bit of a minefield.... I can't understand the control of "flash hiders" unless it was fitted to a barell why would you want one... now...."muzzle brakes" so I'm informed are not controled.. now when does a muzzle brake become a flash hider...hmm?? I fitted a muzzle brake to my 10/22 ....the main reason was it had a screwthread for a suppresor....and as i was not using one i wanted to protect the thread/crown...so after a while on a lathe...nice shiny muzzle brake...just as seen for sale by a few uk companies...now I was also told (Matt may be able shed some light)...that it did not need proofing/proving define silencer suppresor moderator flash hider muzzle brake Taffy

The muzzle break is not mentioned in the act, AFAIK, but an item designed to reduce noise or flash is. Now this only becomes relevant if the item is detachable, therefore an integral silencer is not classed as a separate part, but rather as part of the firearm it belongs to (ie one FAC slot for a DeLisle in 45 with the suppressor).

Now the Proof Act is a different kettle of fish. As much as the Proof Houses want you to proof silencers/flash hiders/muzzle breaks/etc. you don't need to (Speak to Peter Jackson at Jackson Rifles - importers of Reflex Sliencers - he knows the facts). I can only think it is a way for them to increase business at a time when the UK system of proof is seen more and more as an outdated dinosaur. If I get a rifle or barrel proofed (should that be prooved?) then and flash hider, muzzle break etc that is on the barrel gets the same stamp or proof mark applied.

The reason our Police are not routinely armed is that in the first instance the Government could not trust them to NOT try to overthrow them. I can only think the same reasoning applies to flash hiders but from a Policing viewpoint - on the whole they distrust civilian firearm holders and want to see where we are when we 'snipe them come the glorious day'. You can guarantee that com ethe colapse of government and civil rule, when the population rises up to reclaim the country, the Police won't be trying to protect the food distribution points, they'll be coming round to all the registered firearms holders' houses and taking our guns. (I've seen some documents offering advice to the Police on what to do following an NBC attact on the mainland - FAC holders feature quite near the top)

Matt
paranoid and living, with my gun loaded, in a hole in the back garden

yea i figured i was ok with the muzzle brake...but again the law is an ass...and a confusing ass at that...

and after an NBC attack.....we'd be the least of their worries.

me and my S10 will be in denial hiding under the table....

Vito will be ok though....he can register with the home guard/dads army....flat cap an all....


Taffy.....motto..."be prepared"

Quoted: Quoted: You can guarantee that com ethe colapse of government and civil rule, when the population rises up to reclaim the country, the Police won't be trying to protect the food distribution points, they'll be coming round to all the registered firearms holders' houses and taking our guns. (I've seen some documents offering advice to the Police on what to do following an NBC attact on the mainland - FAC holders feature quite near the top)

Yes… I'll say no more.

ANdy

Quoted: yea i figured i was ok with the muzzle brake...but again the law is an ass...and a confusing ass at that... and after an NBC attack.....we'd be the least of their worries. me and my S10 will be in denial hiding under the table.... Vito will be ok though....he can register with the home guard/dads army....flat cap an all.... Taffy.....motto..."be prepared"

Vito will be sitting in his allocated NBC shelter station!

ANdy

Quoted: Quoted: yea i figured i was ok with the muzzle brake...but again the law is an ass...and a confusing ass at that... and after an NBC attack.....we'd be the least of their worries. me and my S10 will be in denial hiding under the table.... Vito will be ok though....he can register with the home guard/dads army....flat cap an all.... Taffy.....motto..."be prepared" Vito will be sitting in his allocated NBC shelter station! ANdy

Andy will you be selling tickets for your bunker?......I had a look around our local nuclear bunker after it was decommisioned and before it was sold off. I think it's used for secure/data storage now.

btw you probly already told me but where abouts are you?...and do you fancy a meet up with the Highpower guys in a few months...I've a dodgy back and what with that and your knee we might make a tidy shooter between us.....If possible I can always pick you up...and if your knee is anything like my back...you'll want to wait till it's warmer.
We can check and see with the guys what venu would be best geographicaly for me and you to get to. My back won't allow me to travel too far.

any thoughts?

Taffy

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: yea i figured i was ok with the muzzle brake...but again the law is an ass...and a confusing ass at that... and after an NBC attack.....we'd be the least of their worries. me and my S10 will be in denial hiding under the table.... Vito will be ok though....he can register with the home guard/dads army....flat cap an all.... Taffy.....motto..."be prepared" Vito will be sitting in his allocated NBC shelter station! ANdy Andy will you be selling tickets for your bunker?......I had a look around our local nuclear bunker after it was decommisioned and before it was sold off. I think it's used for secure/data storage now. btw you probly already told me but where abouts are you?...and do you fancy a meet up with the Highpower guys in a few months...I've a dodgy back and what with that and your knee we might make a tidy shooter between us.....If possible I can always pick you up...and if your knee is anything like my back...you'll want to wait till it's warmer. We can check and see with the guys what venu would be best geographicaly for me and you to get to. My back won't allow me to travel too far. any thoughts? Taffy

Sorry Taff, but tickets to my bunker are strictly by invitation of the Commodore, HM Naval Base Portsmouth!

I'm down near Portsmouth, I'll probably pop along to a shoot when the weather gets warmer… the arthritis is playing up with the damp.

Midway would be around Swindon, I don't know if they are shooting anything ouit that way.

I'm a .22 AR shooter BTW… I sulked and gave up centre-fire after the post Ryan SLR ban…

I know Mark and Co disagree, but to me a bolt action AR is not the full monty.

ANdy

I'm a .22 AR shooter BTW… I sulked and gave up centre-fire after the post Ryan SLR ban… I know Mark and Co disagree, but to me a bolt action AR is not the full monty. ANdy

I know that the UK AR15 bastardised version is not the full monty. That's plainly obvious.
But what you have to do is consider them to be a completely different class of rifle.
Whereas a AR15 is not a M16, our rifles are not true AR15's as such. If you like they are the 3rd rung down the ladder.
Whether you were to want one or not is entirely up to the buyer.
But all this "it's not a semi-auto so I don't want one" is wrong.  They have too many advantages over typical bolt guns. But it all depends on the type of shooting you want to do.
Most shooting disciplines in the UK are based around the single shot rifle, ie, fire then have the target marked back. For this you really don't need anything with a magazine, detachable or internal. And you might as well buy a Swing or RPA target rifle.
But if you shoot anything like we do, ie, PR SR or Highpower, then a rifle that is quick and simple to reload is a must. And there are several choices. Ideally for this, you would require something with a detachable mag that holds at least 10 or preferably 20rds. 30rd mags are usually unnecassary and besides, they get in the way. Particularly when shooting prone.

Now, if you want to keep your shooting simple, then a rifle in a Nato calibre is a must. 5.56 and 7.62 are the way to go. If you want to be competitive with surplus ammo then ideally 7.62 is the one but the recoil will eventually beat you up. And that's their disadvantage, or one of them.
The other disadvantage is that they are slower to operate compared to a straight pull AR. I used my Remy yesterday and it did me no favours whatsoever, except at 600M.
Surplus 5.56 is easier on the shooter (recoil, target reacquisition etc) but balistically is inferior to 7.62, but if you are willing to reload, narrows the ballistic gap. Of course, you can reload for 7.62 with higher BC bullets and regain the advantage, but there is still the recoil and slow bolt operation to consider.
Besides all this, most bolt guns with their long barrels are unweildy, where the AR's size and compactness make them a pleasure to shoot along with the mild recoil.
Apart from all this, there really aren't any places where you could use a semi auto rifle where it would have an advantage over a manually operated one.
And a properly sorted AR is just damn accurate.
It was a AR15 that won the McQueens sniper competition at last years Phoenix competition.

As for me, it's not so much that they are AR15's as such, it's just thet they're the best tool for the job and are so much fun.

Mark

Quoted: I'm a .22 AR shooter BTW… I sulked and gave up centre-fire after the post Ryan SLR ban… I know Mark and Co disagree, but to me a bolt action AR is not the full monty. ANdy I know that the UK AR15 bastardised version is not the full monty. That's plainly obvious.

I knew you would bite!

I was only pissing with ya!

I may go for a straight pull AR instead of the Remi… depends on the cash flow and her indoors.

ANdy

I knew you would bite! I was only pissing with ya! ANdy

 

Mark

Quoted: I knew you would bite! I was only pissing with ya! ANdy   Mark

ANdy

awaits "group hug".....

Question:

Do you require "expanding amunition" on your ticket to buy (22lr) CCI Mini-Mags?

Taffy

Only if they are hollow points...

OK then do CCI make mini-mags that are not hollowpoint?

Taffy

CCI mini mag (non-HP) is part no. 0030
CCI mini mag (HP) is part no. 0031

great info cheers Limey

Taffy

Greetings from across the pond gentlemen!  I find it interesting reading your posts regarding your firearm laws.  Hey Streetfighter, no offense but I find it a tad funny that you say,"If you want to be competitive with surplus ammo".  Here in the states, using surplus ammo is the last thing you would use for being competitive.  If any of you gentlemen ever take a vacation to the states and make it to the state of Wisconsin in the city of Milwaukee, I will take any of you guys shooting.  There is a 600 yard range about 15 miles south of my address.  I'm in my first "cross the course" tomorrow morning fireing at the 200, 300 and 600 yard with my M1 Garand (30-06) and I'am now having a Martini to calm my nerves before I go to bed.

Quoted: Greetings from across the pond gentlemen!  I find it interesting reading your posts regarding your firearm laws.  Hey Streetfighter, no offense but I find it a tad funny that you say,"If you want to be competitive with surplus ammo".  Here in the states, using surplus ammo is the last thing you would use for being competitive.  If any of you gentlemen ever take a vacation to the states and make it to the state of Wisconsin in the city of Milwaukee, I will take any of you guys shooting.  There is a 600 yard range about 15 miles south of my address.  I'm in my first "cross the course" tomorrow morning fireing at the 200, 300 and 600 yard with my M1 Garand (30-06) and I'am now having a Martini to calm my nerves before I go to bed.

Good luck in your match. Let us know how you did.

And be careful, we just might take you up on your invitation....do you really want streetfighter to know where you live?

Quoted:  Hey Streetfighter, no offense but I find it a tad funny that you say,"If you want to be competitive with surplus ammo".

Yeah I know, it does sound strange but that's how it is with some people.
What I mean is, to get the best from the .223 round, you really have to reload it. That ca be said for all calibres, but in this instance I mean competitive against the larger calibres such as 7.62
Standard 5.56 surplus has piss poor ballistics and accuracy but a lot of people still use it because they either don't want to get into reloading or don't know any better.
There are those who know that 5.56 surplus is a bad choice so choose to use 7.62, mainly because it is better balistically. It's not usually any more accurate but because the bullets have a better BC it's therefore a better choice, except for recoil.
Now if you reload for the 5.56/.223, you automatically have a better choice than the .30 cal's.
Likewise if those .30 cal shooters were to reload with better bullets themselves, then they would have the advantage.
But they just don't seem to do it.

Also, with our manually operated AR's, surplus 5.56 can cause extraction problems, so if you don't want to shoot crappy surplus ammo and don't want to reload, then 7.62 is a better option (in a bolt gun, of course)
Mark

Quoted: Greetings from across the pond gentlemen!  I find it interesting reading your posts regarding your firearm laws.  Hey Streetfighter, no offense but I find it a tad funny that you say,"If you want to be competitive with surplus ammo".  Here in the states, using surplus ammo is the last thing you would use for being competitive.  If any of you gentlemen ever take a vacation to the states and make it to the state of Wisconsin in the city of Milwaukee, I will take any of you guys shooting.  There is a 600 yard range about 15 miles south of my address.  I'm in my first "cross the course" tomorrow morning fireing at the 200, 300 and 600 yard with my M1 Garand (30-06) and I'am now having a Martini to calm my nerves before I go to bed.

Cheers for the invite Tazaroo
I'll sort out the charter airplane ...did you say there was enough room for all of us?

Taffy

Mark what's with the monkey avtar?

Taffy

Quoted: Mark what's with the monkey avtar? Taffy

Self portrait

Quoted: Quoted: Mark what's with the monkey avtar? Taffy Self portrait

Watch it you

Actually it's because I'm a cheeky monkey

I know streetfighter and 'cheeky monkey' is not quite the words I'd use.

Could this be legaly held/imported to UK?

Anyone any ideas?

website

Taffy

I imagine that it would need to be more than 12ft/lbs muzzle energy to push any projectile out of the barrel! That would make it a section 1 rifle with all the same rules...

OK then ...would "one" (the royal one..lol)
be able to import and place it on FAC...dunno how "one" would explain "use/need" though?

Any thoughts?

It does have the "novel" factor...


Cheers

Taffy

I think they are already imported.
At least ShinSung have a UK importer and distributer, they are sometimes advertised in one of the shooting mags ('shooting times' might have the ad, or call 'shooting sports', they are pretty good at finding an old add and passing on the details).

Ammo would be a bitch to get hold of though.

Quoted: OK then ...would "one" (the royal one..lol) be able to import and place it on FAC...dunno how "one" would explain "use/need" though? Any thoughts? It does have the "novel" factor... Cheers Taffy

If you had it on your license then the most likely way you would have justified the high-power air rifle would have been pest control. Job done. After that just order it in. Don't try too much target shooting though!

But it's DAMN UGLY.

Quoted: But it's DAMN UGLY.

I second that - it wasn't hit by the ugly-stick, it IS the ugly-stick!!

Some of you guys might find this book handy.



Gun Law
6th Edition
Godfrey Sandys-Winsch, BA (Cantab), Solicitor  



This book is devoted exclusively to the law relating to the use of guns. In it the ordinary person who handles guns will find all the requirements of the law which he needs to know, and those who have to enforce the law will find it of invaluable assistance to them in their work.

More changes in firearms law have occurred since the publication of the fifth edition of this book than at any other time since its inception. This new edition takes into account all the latest legislation relating to the banning of handguns and explains which firearms are unlawful and which may legally be held, together with the conditions for holding them.

"...it is a tool which no professional or amateur should really be without and at £19.95 for a copy, must be the cheapest possible way to invest in peace of mind"

Gun Trade News  



Paperback, 1999

216x138mm




232 pages

ISBN 0 7219 0364 9

£19.95

Linky

I wear velcro gloves around sheep farms.

Quoted: I wear velcro gloves around sheep farms.

82nd


How did you know I wear those special 'Welsh dating gloves'?

Wait till you progress upto the welsh dating wellies...no sheep will get away from you then...

Happy dating

Taffy

I too am curious about UK gun laws. A few states(not Texas of course) politicians have banned rifles with the evil pistol grip. Senator Swinestein says that a pistol grip will allow you to fire from the hip and thus spray bullets and slaughter tons of people(just like in the movies). So my question is how do politicians and anti-gun people over there view the evil pistol grip?

Quoted: Quoted: So my question is how do politicians and anti-gun people over there view the evil pistol grip? Never been an issue, neither have bayonet lugs, folding stocks, flash hiders, 30 round mags, silencers/moderators and other evil 'assault features'… ANdy

hey ANdy you seem well informed about US gun/anti-gun issues. A sign that you hang out here too much?