GUN DEALER GOES TO PRISON OVER SELLING FIREARM TO ILLEGAL.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - GUN DEALER GOES TO PRISON OVER SELLING FIREARM TO ILLEGAL.

Posted: 9/12/2010 6:46:46 AM EDT

Gun Dealer Gets Prison for Selling to Illegal Immigrant; Illegal 'Middle Man' Not Charged

By Diane Macedo

Published September 10, 2010

| FoxNews.com

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Paul Copeland

Paul Copeland and his now 3-year-old son Pablo in 2009.

Gun rights advocates are up in arms that a Texas gun dealer was sentenced to six months in prison for selling a firearm to an illegal immigrant, but a "middle-man" who bought the gun for the immigrant –– and who was in the U.S. illegally himself, but had a valid driver's license –– was never arrested, charged or deported in the case.

Paul Copeland, 56, a Vietnam veteran, was sentenced to prison time and two years probation in federal court last week for selling a gun to an undocumented alien, Hipolito Aviles, at the Texas Gun Show in Austin in January.

But Aviles wasn't the man who handed Copeland the money for the gun. That man was Leonel Huerta Sr., who presented as identification the valid Texas driver's license he had obtained before his visa expired in 2007.

Copeland claimed he was presented with a valid driver's license and had no way of knowing that the man he was selling the gun to was an illegal immigrant, or that he intended to give the gun to another illegal immigrant.

Huerta, in a phone interview with Copeland's attorney that was included in court documents, said he showed Copeland his driver's license in order to purchase the gun, and it wasn't until he was leaving the building that he handed the gun to Aviles.

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But agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives testified that Copeland should have known that Huerta was buying the gun for Aviles.

"Agents witnessed the Defendant (Copeland) negotiate a price for a handgun with Hipolito Aviles, who then handed cash to a second Hispanic male, who then handed Aviles' cash and his own identification to the defendant," the prosecution said in court documents.

"The Defendant in turn sold the firearm and handed it to the 'straw' purchaser, who then handed the firearm to Hipolito Aviles. The Defendant then instructed Mr. Aviles to hand the firearm back to the straw purchaser because he had 'bought' the firearm. Agents witnessed the straw purchaser hand the firearm back to Hipolito Aviles a short time later."

Aviles, the undocumented immigrant, was charged with possession of a firearm by a prohibited person, served a little over six months in prison and was deported on July 8, U.S. Attorney's Office spokesman Daryl Fields said.

But Huerta, the "middle man" who bought the gun for Aviles and also was in the country illegally, suffered no legal consequences in the case. He is believed to still be living in the country illegally.

"Instead of busting the illegal alien for buying, they bust the citizen for selling," said Paul Velte, founder of Peaceable Texans for Firearms Rights, a gun-owners rights advocacy group from Austin.

Copeland, in an interview with FoxNews.com, said he and several other witnesses, including Aviles and Huerta's son, who was present during the gun purchase, testified that the men never exchanged money in front of him. He said that throughout the purchase, he either talked with Huerta, who he says "spoke perfect English," or to the group in general, but never to Aviles directly.

"I never conversed with Hipolito at all," Copeland said. "The gentleman claims that he doesn't speak any English."

But one thing all sides agreed on is that Huerta, using a valid Texas driver's license, knowingly bought a gun for someone who was ineligible to buy one himself –– all the while knowing that he, too, was in the country illegally.

"SA [Special Agent] Jones interviewed Huerta, using an interpreter, and learned that he is also illegally in the United States and he showed SA Jones a work visa that expired in 2007," ATF wrote in its report of the incident. "SA Jones further interviewed Huerta and learned that he had just met Aviles for the first time at the gun show and he agreed to help Aviles purchase a gun because Aviles did not have proper identification."

But, unlike Aviles, Huerta was not arrested at the gun show that day. And though the report said he was "to be indicted," the ATF said he was never charged in the case.

"Apparently, Huerta was not charged because he was a witness," ATF spokeswoman Franceska Perot told FoxNews.com, adding that the bureau referred the case to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. ICE spokeswoman Gail Montenegro said there was no record of Huerta in ICE's system, indicating that there is no effort underway to deport him.

Perot said that, to her understanding, Huerta wasn't arrested at the gun show because agents there felt "he was just a go-between for Aviles." She said she couldn't say specifically why the decision was made not to prosecute him later, other than to say that situations like this happen all the time.

"It's a prosecutorial decision. They decide, are we going to get more time for this guy, for his part, or are we going to use him as a witness for someone else? So I guess that was their decision," she said.

Velte says that decision should "enrage all Americans."

"The illegal alien walks free, but the citizen gets convicted," he said. "The same government charged with controlling immigration is the one using illegal immigrants to attack its own citizens. Does this make any sense?"

When asked about Huerta, the U.S. Attorney's Office said, "we do not comment about our prosecutorial decision making process."

Attempts to contact Huerta were unsuccessful.

As for Copeland, Perot said he may not like the verdict in his case, but it was issued by a jury fair and square.

"He was found guilty by a jury, so if he feels like he was unfairly tried then there's an appeals process for that," she said.

Copeland says he intends to explore that process to the fullest.

"The appeal's being filed as we speak," he said.

Posted: 9/12/2010 7:00:46 AM EDT

[#1]

sounds like the straw purchase was done directly in front of him and i am betting he was aware of it. Having worked in a shop i ahve seen similar things and it's not hard to spot them and just say no.

also i'd kinda like to know how the guy with the expired visa passed nics without out at least a delay.

"Agents witnessed the Defendant (Copeland) negotiate a price for a handgun with Hipolito Aviles, who then handed cash to a second Hispanic male, who then handed Aviles' cash and his own identification to the defendant,"

Posted: 9/12/2010 7:50:13 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
sounds like the straw purchase was done directly in front of him and i am betting he was aware of it. Having worked in a shop i ahve seen similar things and it's not hard to spot them and just say no.

also i'd kinda like to know how the guy with the expired visa passed nics without out at least a delay.

"Agents witnessed the Defendant (Copeland) negotiate a price for a handgun with Hipolito Aviles, who then handed cash to a second Hispanic male, who then handed Aviles' cash and his own identification to the defendant,"

Very possible. Even so, why was the middle man not arrested and charged with the same crimes?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 9/12/2010 7:55:08 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
sounds like the straw purchase was done directly in front of him and i am betting he was aware of it. Having worked in a shop i ahve seen similar things and it's not hard to spot them and just say no.

also i'd kinda like to know how the guy with the expired visa passed nics without out at least a delay.

"Agents witnessed the Defendant (Copeland) negotiate a price for a handgun with Hipolito Aviles, who then handed cash to a second Hispanic male, who then handed Aviles' cash and his own identification to the defendant,"

Very possible. Even so, why was the middle man not arrested and charged with the same crimes?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

hoestly i have never heard of anyone in that situation being charged. hell i have seen felons denied on nics that weren't even wuestioned after the fact

other than that.. PC

Posted: 9/12/2010 9:20:42 AM EDT

[#4]

TBS thanks for your input. There is so much fail in all systems it is unreal. Remember kiddos at the end of the day it is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY that must rule our actions.

We have a big show coming up and well you know the rest. This is a heads up for NMHTF. We can debate this at the show

.

Posted: 9/12/2010 9:50:49 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

TBS thanks for your input. There is so much fail in all systems it is unreal. Remember kiddos at the end of the day it is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY that must rule our actions.

We have a big show coming up and well you know the rest. This is a heads up for NMHTF. We can debate this at the show

.

I figured that is why you posted this.

Why debate at the show? Lets start here.

To the best of my knowledge, and feel free to correct me if needed, rifle transactions for personal sales are legal for NM residents and adjoining states, Texas, AZ, CO, UT, and OK.

Handgun transactions are only legal to NM residents unless you have an FFL do a transfer to another FFL legal for the state of the buyer who then transfers it to the buyer. A real nightmare on paperwork.

Personally, I never used to ask if someone could legally own or buy anything I have sold. To me, the buyer is the responsible party. Events like the one posted by VB here have started to sway that opinion and I may start asking for proof of residency on all transactions.

I guess the "gunshow loophole" will be closed by making people to afraid to sell vs. any actual legal document. A trap is very easy to fall into...

Another warning for our guys at the next show. The last few shows have had several people wandering around asking how to convert semiauto rifles to full, or offering to teach people how to do so. My response is generally GTFO and GTFaway from me.

I have also seen SBR's and AOW's on more than one occasion. Sadly, ignorance of the law will get your fried just as fast. Telling a vendor what they have on the table more often than not results in someone being pissed off.

Posted: 9/12/2010 10:03:24 AM EDT

[#6]

I will break a rule or two if i debate it here

.

I will however try not to gets the FRII-HAMMER.

If you do not speak the language no sale.

If you gots to pull up your paints more than once you had better be a fat fuk or no sale.

If you look cracked out or tracked up no sale.

If you smell like baby powder and copy paper no sale.

Quoted:

Quoted:

TBS thanks for your input. There is so much fail in all systems it is unreal. Remember kiddos at the end of the day it is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY that must rule our actions.

We have a big show coming up and well you know the rest. This is a heads up for NMHTF. We can debate this at the show

.

I figured that is why you posted this.

Why debate at the show? Lets start here.

To the best of my knowledge, and feel free to correct me if needed, rifle transactions for personal sales are legal for NM residents and adjoining states, Texas, AZ, CO, UT, and OK.

Handgun transactions are only legal to NM residents unless you have an FFL do a transfer to another FFL legal for the state of the buyer who then transfers it to the buyer. A real nightmare on paperwork.

Personally, I never used to ask if someone could legally own or buy anything I have sold. To me, the buyer is the responsible party. Events like the one posted by VB here have started to sway that opinion and I may start asking for proof of residency on all transactions.

I guess the "gunshow loophole" will be closed by making people to afraid to sell vs. any actual legal document. A trap is very easy to fall into...

Another warning for our guys at the next show. The last few shows have had several people wandering around asking how to convert semiauto rifles to full, or offering to teach people how to do so. My response is generally GTFO and GTFaway from me.

I have also seen SBR's and AOW's on more than one occasion. Sadly, ignorance of the law will get your fried just as fast. Telling a vendor what they have on the table more often than not results in someone being pissed off.

Posted: 9/12/2010 10:07:31 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

I will break a rule or two if i debate it here

.

I will however try not to gets the FRII-HAMMER.

If you do not speak the language no sale.

If you gots to pull up your paints more than once you had better be a fat fuk or no sale.

If you look cracked out or tracked up no sale.

If you smell like baby powder and copy paper no sale.

Whats the Frii-Hammer?

I thought those rules, except the last one, were a given?

Posted: 9/12/2010 10:12:02 AM EDT

[#8]

The last one is for that bird girl that Dazzled me last show with the "Love Bird"

I need to barrow ALIcats for her.Note to self what out for the bird girl.

Quoted:

Quoted:

I will break a rule or two if i debate it here

.

I will however try not to gets the FRII-HAMMER.

If you do not speak the language no sale.

If you gots to pull up your paints more than once you had better be a fat fuk or no sale.

If you look cracked out or tracked up no sale.

If you smell like baby powder and copy paper no sale.

Whats the Frii-Hammer?

I thought those rules, except the last one, were a given?

Posted: 9/12/2010 10:52:16 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

The last one is for that bird girl that Dazzled me last show with the "Love Bird"

I need to barrow ALIcats for her.Note to self what out for the bird girl.

I have been saving this for you.