User Panel
Posted: 3/16/2006 12:02:52 PM EDT
John Pennell
Fort Richardson PAO U.S. ARMY ALASKA — Despite an Alaska law allowing gun owners to carry concealed weapons, U.S. Army Alaska policy still reigns supreme on forts Richardson and Wainwright. Two policy letters signed this week reinforce and clarify the command’s guidelines on privately owned weapons, including the prohibition against USARAK Soldiers carrying concealed weapons. Alaska gun laws with regard to concealed weapons are not applicable, said Eric Carlson, USARAK security officer. According to Commanding General/Chief of Staff Policy Statement 0-20, Concealed Weapons Policy, Soldiers assigned or attached to USARAK are prohibited from carrying a concealed deadly weapon on or off the installation. Policy Statement 0-17, Privately Owned Firearms Policy, also prohibits anyone — military or not — from having or transporting a concealed weapon at any time on a USARAK installation. Personnel who wish to bring their firearms onto the installation must comply with the registration, transport and storage requirements listed in USARAK Regulation 190-1, paragraphs I-12 and I-17; as well as Policy Statement 0-17. The policies are punitive. Soldiers who fail to comply are subject to adverse administrative action or punishment under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, or both. All violators are also subject to possible revocation of their privilege to possess a privately owned firearm on a USARAK installation. To see the policy statements, go to www.usarak.army.mil/policies/Policies/CG_CofS_Policy_List.htm. |
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Just seems to me that our service members should be able to protect themselves off post as the rest of the law abiding Alaskans can.
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They can
They just cant carry CCW on base, nor can civilians. This has been the rule/law since I lived on Wainwright in the late 80's early 90's. |
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no the policy letter says that even off post USARAK ( army ) personel can not CCW
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I missed that Wonder if it has anything to do with the three shit bags on trial right now for the shotgun jousting. |
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What the Army dont know, dont hurt. Im still looking forward to getting stationed in Alaska in a couple years, if I cant get it in the re-up contract Ill move there as a civilian. Either way I plan to exercise the CCW off post at all times.
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It blows. I think they have every right to defend themselves off post as I do. And as far as USAAK is concerned, they can't.
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So anyone think it might be a possible knee jerk reaction to the 3 GI's on trial for murder?
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I think it has to do with typical Army politics. Most higher ups dont support things like concealed carry or self defense, many dont support the 2nd and believe the only armed Americans should be military and LEO. You d be suprised the comments I recieve when I talk to some of the senior NCOs and oficers in my brigade about shooting on the weekends.
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But they didn't have a concealed gun...? |
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prohibiting ccw on post is one thing, but off past as well. sounds like violation of the 2nd to me. nra know of this?
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I dont see NRA or any other group influencing a order that only affects those in USARAK, remember we dont get the same rights as normal citizens, all part of the enlistment contract. |
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people keep thkning that military members have all there rights ... they in fact dont .. anyone who has served or has served knows all too well the irony of that
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I thought I had heard about this some years back, but wasn't made policy in the end (about the off base carry). It may have even been about owning guns off base, can't recall, but it was the same sort of BS.
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The Newsminer has an article on the policy on the front page of todays paper the PAO states that the policy is in response to the murder trial as well as other incidents that have happened over the last 6 months |
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Just curious, got any good clubs that are on the off limits list around there? We have a good S&M club here called the dungeon that we arent supposed to go to where you can get spanked, whipped, or spun around on the wheel of joy.
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Huh? |
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I just read that the Fairbanks trio was aquitted. According to the jury they acted in self defense.
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The Policy Letter says this:
The Regulation says this:
Looks to me like an open and shut case of somebody trying to overstep their bounds. The policy orders all Army and Attached (read Air Force, Marines, Navy, etc. ) not to carry concealed weapons off post. I can understand regulating behavior on post or in uniform, but this is as broad as saying, “Voting for Republicans represents a significant risk to the safety and welfare of this command.” This is a broad, sweeping policy that violates the 2nd Amendment of the constitution, IMHO. Can somebody forward the PDF's to the NRA and see if some contacts in Washington can be put into action? I'm in Dillingham now and downloading stuff takes a great deal of time. |
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while i do disagree with the policy, i understand their intent. those little wannabe gangbangers ruined it for everyone else, typical army shit. military police and access control have been notified of the policy change at fwa, so i doubt itll change any time soon. all they can do to enforce it is ucmj action on top of any other trouble someone should get into while ccw. i imagine if they still have problems they would not allow soldiers to own handguns. soldiers have to obey the orders of the officers appointed over them, no matter what constitutional rights a civilian has. ill never go back.
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Biggest reason I want to get out at the next chance. |
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Not true. Soldiers do not have to obey the orders of the officers appointed over them IF those orders are unlawful or violate the constitutional rights of the soldier. You don't forefit your constitutional rights when you join. This policy is wrong, unjust, and unconstitutional. |
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go tell that to that Michael New guy that tried that and got tossed out ... IN fact 90% of the time the military can and will do what they want to there members ... Hell I remember the whole Anthrax shots issue , saw 3 guys get dropped first from E5 to E4 then from E4 - E1 and processed right on out
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Here is the reply from the NRA:
Thank you for contacting the NRA-ILA. While military personnel have certain rights, stipulated by the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), the Manual of Courts Martial, and the various services' regulations, they do not possess the same rights as private citizens. Under the UCMJ, military personnel are required to comply with any lawful order, and an order is lawful if it does not compel an action that is prohibited by the UCMJ or regulations. Compare with the civilian world, in which agents of the government are not permitted to compel you to take any action unless their authority to do so has been specifically granted by law or regulation. A military commander may order that his personnel not possess privately owned firearms on-base or even at home off-base, and such an order is lawful because, among other reasons, there is no right to arms enumerated in military law or regulation. Thus, in the military the possession of firearms is permitted only when specifically authorized, while in the civilian world it is permitted unless specifically prohibited. Finally, note also that a base commander may also prohibit anyone, including a civilian with a civilian carry permit, from possessing a firearm on his installation. Sincerely, Amanda Millward Anyone else got any better any ideas other then "it sucks to be you"????? |
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Amanda from the NRA is wrong on this one.
That order violates the Constitutional rights of the military member, and also is a slap in the face to liberty and why a lot of men and women join the military to serve thier Country. Who the hell is he to decide that the member cannot protect himself or his family. He should be reprimanded and retired. |
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Once again, we do not have constitutional rights in the military.
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they even have a policy that the only sex position allowed is missionary. no oral. crazy.
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No, you're wrong. So is the lady from the NRA. In reality, we have the same rights as everybody else. What constitutes a lawful order is what is at issue. |
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Go attend a anti war rally and see if you dont get a field grade. |
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Here's the AP Article (pulled from the Anchorage Daily News)
Intent versus outcome... hmmm, I didn't INTEND to restrict their rights... but I did. |
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In regards to the response from the NRA, here's my conclusion. 1. they don't give a shit about soldiers or they would be raising hell to the IG and 2. they won't get any money out of the deal if they did (join them and see how much mail and emails you get asking for money). The one thing that sucks about this is if I were to carry off post, I could loose my career which supports me and my family. That is one thing you just don't take chances with. This is not about the constitution. If it was then regestering your weapons on post it wouldn't be happening. Note that this registration is a national resristation base meaning any cop with who can imput a case on a computer can access these records. This goes for civilians who register their firearms on post also. (Those LE out there try it on COPS). Not only that but when you move it goes with you. When I came here I had almost 100 weapons on file from registering the same few weapons at all of my previous duty stations. Oh yea and luck getting that FUBAR fixed. Also note that military has the right to do anything with its soldiers regarding on and off post. There is a reason certain places like some clubs are off limits and you can be punished under UCMJ for violating a lawful order. The only way this policy can change is through the CG himself who can be encouraged through public pressure (media, civilian contractors, ect). This is a matter of me protecting me and my family when we are off post, nothing else.
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How about the 2nd Ammendment Foundation or another pro-Gun cause? The AGCA? Don Young? Lisa Murkowski (Don't laugh, she's helped me in the past). Somebody could make an official inquiry.
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the reality of it all is that general fancy pants will be able to do what he wants ... and they have proven time and time again . Military members are dubject to the UCMJ and they do not in fact get all there rights ... Who is gonna be the first one to line up and sacrifice themselves to prove a point ? noone thats who .. the military likes to make examples of people that have backbones
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its a pretty messed up deal. I complained to my chain of command and then to IG but got nothing out of it. I don't care to raise to much more of a fuss myself because I am a petty little E3 and no one cares about me. There are a few problems that sparked this...one of which being an e5 firing his handgun out the sunroof of his car while driving down the glenn over new years. Its shit. he was not demoted he spoke to us in a safty breifing about how stupid it was. so now my ability to carry is taken away while he had no action taken against him minus a little extra duty.
A soldier last weekend was mugged on muldoon he normally ccw'd but stopped when the reg came down on us. it would not have happened the same had he been carrying. The civilians all know this. military men are generally law abiding we have discipline and respect so your joe public gang banger will see this as our weakness thinking he isn't allowed to carry a weapon and is stupid enough to follow the rules. So joe gangbanger has a gun and I don't...I don't like my odds. |
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I recall being detained against my will, being forced to do physical labor for far less then min wage and for more than 8 hrs without "overtime", being forced to abide by appearance standards, and having my freedom of speech violated by the Army.
The Mil can and does violate soldiers rights as long as they aren't ordering you to do something illegal. It sure ain't a democracy. |
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