At 420pm.  Guy walks into lobby and opens fire.



Please understand (some of you may know me personally..) I am passionately PRO-GUN but you cannot be surprised when you walk into a PD lobby open carrying and get hassled.  THIS is what we're thinking when we see open carry in a PD.



http://dailytribune.com/articles/2011/01/23/news/doc4d3cb06b065a6513807393.txt



Prayers sent for minor injuries and speedy recovery.



Cheers all,



PS.  Sorry if dup...

Waaaaaaay more to this than what they are reporting.

Pretty sure people have been murdered at gun ranges to does that mean I should hassle people who look out of place there, or hell people and cops get shot all over the place so you guys should feel free to hassle any one with a gun everywhere.  Responding to a very small potential threat with harassment and abuse of power is never acceptable no matter how you justify it.  

It would not be an abuse to keep a close eye on people open carrying at a police station, but intimidating and threatening people because you either feel slightly threatened, or feel some one is challenging your authority, when you are not legally justified is not proper behavior for any civil servant.

Best wishes for those injured in this shooting, and I hope the piece of shit that shot them lived long enough to suffer a little.

Tell you what, the next time I walk into the a PD lobby with a pistol grip shotgun feel free to ask me any question you want. Doug already nailed this on the head though. Best wishes to the injured officers.

7 year old girls like Aiyana Jones can sleep a little bit more soundly tonight.

Wow......its amazing some of you dont get harassed more, with posts like that.     Way to keep it in perspective...(sarcasm implied)

Tag for info on this one.

While Im not really one for open carry, what does this have to do with it. The guy walked in and started shooting. What am I missing here? Prayers out to those officers wounded

Must be a humdinger cuz no one is talking

Whenever the DPD is involved, there is always more to the story...

The only info I have heard so far is that the guy was there earlier in the day, left for some amount of time, and subsequently returned with a shotgun and started shooting.

Seems like deja vu from about the 9th pct about 10 years ago......

So who's up for an OC event at a DPD station? (double sarcasm implied)

Anyone that open carries has to expect to draw attention. I wouldn't take my eyes off of them, you have no idea of their intent and it makes most uncomfortable and on guard. I would think that it was a civil servants duty to talk with someone open carrying just to get a gut read on them depending on the circumstances. I prefer concealed you draw no attention and have a tactical advantage if you are forced to engage a bad guy.



Paying attention is your best tool. Hope those officers are all ok, they have a tuff job and can only react to a situation which makes them slower than the guy that knows what he's going to do.




 

I think it's a civil servants duty to talk to everyone on the street just to get a gut feeling about them. See how they react and if they become nervous when asked for their papers. We need to increase the amount of checkpoints.

Already seems like a Gestapo state as it is...

Nobody else has the balls to say it, so I will.

Fuck you for connecting LAWFUL OPEN CARRIERS with that piece of shit.

How bout I group you with him because you're both "gun owners"?

You need to get your head unstuck from your ass and think before you post bullshit like that.

No one connected the shooter in Detroit with people that open carry thats quite a stretch of your imagination.

You need to re read this post  (slower). If you see a man with a gun do you assume he's friendly and law abiding?

Or do you take precautions to keep your family safe just in case his intentions are not friendly.

Unless your a mind reader you don't know what his intentions are. Just because he open carries doesn't make him a Good guy or a bad guy.

But the guy that carries concealed looks like every other, but you would still pay attention to your surrounding's and people's behavior.

People that open carry draw more attention period. Because a mad man runs into a PD with a shotgun and engages officers says nothing about him other than he's a crazed

lunatic...I hope your able to see the difference.







 

I know many LEO's and got into this conversation at our gun club after a match about the open carry issues.

Fault is found if they talk to someone open carrying and fault is found if they don't. They weigh each situation based on behavior and

where this is taking place. I see both sides but I prefer concealed simply because no one pays attention to the gun concealed on my side, so no one bothers me.





 

I think you're the one that needs to re-read the post.

I said it would be alright to watch them, and will also extend that to talking with them briefly.  The behavior I object to is the verbal harassment and threatening michigan police use against open carriers.  This is done all the time and is unacceptable.  

The OP was using this incident to defend these deplorable practices in a way I personally find detestable.  He did not say people that open carry want to shoot up a police station, but he did use it to justify the repeated pattern of abuse that michigan police officers practice against people exorcising their rights.

Remember we don't just have a problem with open carry harassment here.  Cops in this state desperately need education on gun rights.  Many departments still violate the rules on issuing pistol purchase permits during business hours.  Others harass people buying guns legally and threaten to arrest them on made up laws..  This kind of behavior needs to stop.  Hell half the open carry stuff that annoys cops only goes on because of their bad attitude provoking it.  Remember that open carry incident at a DPD station occurred because of a police department violating the hours they were required to issue permits in

 Also for the record I to prefer concealed carry for the advantage it gives in a potential fight, but I will vigorous defend the rights of those that chose to open carry.

WOW!  I didn't even read your post...Was this guy open carrying the shotgun?  Where did you read that?  In the video it doesn't look like he was open carrying it...  Sorry to ruin your day but I think you 'PD lobby open carrying" strawman didn't pan out.  

The LEO's I shoot with are just like us they don't hassle unless given a reason.I have been carrying for 30 years and never been hassled.


I believe people should be able to open carry but Its difficult to know where to draw the line.


The situation posed to me was a guy was open carrying at a summer festival lots of family's out enjoying a summer day but they were concerned about the guy with a gun.


He was there with his GF and behaving himself, he approached the guy and let him know that there were many in the crowd concerned asked him if he mined locking his gun in his car and he complied. The LEO said sometimes OC puts him in a bad position with the people of his community because most simply dont understand why we carry.


   


   Are you saying the shooter in Detroit was turned away and returned to seek revenge? I was not aware of that.


 I agree that some LEO's are very cocky and try to intimidate and provoke a bad confrontational attitude....And that should not be tolerated.


 My concern with OC is you will stumble across the wrong cop with an attitude and because you dont comply quickly enough or make an error you


could easily be shot. A man with a gun call is pretty stressful and could turn out bad.  
 
 

The line should be drawn at what is legal, and carrying at the summer festivals is typically legal.  The problem I have is a lot of cops would phrase their request to lock the gun in the car as an order, or with a threat of arrest and thats not right no matter how you feel about open carry.

The detroit station shooter was not turned away and he was not open carrying either, from what I gather he hid the shotgun under a coat till he got ready to shoot.  He was accused of molesting a child and probably wanted suicide by cop, and due to hatred of the police also tried to take as many as possible out with him.

The incident I was talking about occurred when some gun rights activists went to a DPD station to support a friend that was being stonewalled while trying to obtain a pistol purchase permit.  The cops at the station were very belligerent and threatening.  DPD especially has a "you will respect my authority" attitude that wins them few friends.

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Sorry but the Officer had no authority to do that and shows bad judgement on his part. He should have told the "concerned people" to go about their business and that carrying openly is completely legal. He needs to educate the people that "don't understand" rather than ask people to give up their rights. What would have been the outcome if this guy did not "comply"?

fyi: That was the Wayne County Sheriff's office in Westland on Henry Ruff, not DPD.  I was there.

No offense intended my memory must have been faulty

No offense intended my memory must have been faulty

none taken, I was just letting you know

The officer did nothing other than speak to the guy, the guy understood and stowed his gun on his own.


The officer did tell the patrons that he was perfectly legal. Its a small community nothing like your describing in Detroit.


Getting your permit is no problem at all,everyone is friendly. No bs at all


I hit a dear and a MSP responded I declared my pistol and he looked at my permit and asked me where the pistol was,


It was on my hip and he said ok and went on about taking the report. I think he ask me not to touch the pistol. Very polite no problems at all.


I see both sides of this issue, I support their right to open carry..... But from an LEO perspective the only thing making it legal is the intent


and if a LEO see's a gun he prepares himself mentally for an exchange and emotions might become elevated until intention can be established.


It is a job I wouldnt want especially out towards Detroit. I love to shoot but I prefer paper and steel poppers.
 

I seriously doubt this is the case. The "request" was probably phrased as a threat, or an order. If someone is going to go through the trouble of open carrying at a public event, I can't imagine they'd be so willing to just make it disappear because the sheep get nervous.