There have been some anti-gun changes added in committee to HB 1358, the House permit-less carry bill.

The short version, is that the changes will have the effect of gutting carry in public/government buildings, or on any sort of public property, including leased property. This could include functions such as sporting events or anything that may take place on property leased by any sort of government entity.

This change was intentional, and it's believed to be a result of the influence of Sam Owens, former Attorney General, who is quite anti-gun.

HB 1358 is on the House General Calendar for today, so our Reps in the House need to hear from all of us. Any Rep who will listen needs to hear from us.

It'd also be a good idea to contact the Speaker of the House's office and let him know we want this language removed and more off-limits locations removed.

Best course of action would probably be to ask the House to revert to the original version of the bill. If not, I'd ask that they strip out the anti-gun changes via amendment. While they're at it, removing some off-limits locations would be nice, too.

Here is a link to the bill. HB 1358

I recommend contacting every one of the bill's sponsors, and letting them know you're unhappy with the changes.

How far along is this Bill?

Ive got to get in touch with Bruce Williamson about this nonsense.

It's made significant progress in the House. It's had Second Readers in the House and it's on the House General Calendar for today.

Unfortunately, one of the sponsors (all R's by the way) represents part of my county.  I sent the below.  I read it twice, but now see some areas I could have improved.  I actually go tired of looking through that bag of shit to find points that pissed me off, and just stopped about mid-way through....

Ms. Ballinger,

I am writing in response to your co-sponsorship of HB-1358 and am curious why you would support legislation that minimizes the people’s ability to exercise their Constitutionally protected God-given right to carry?  The legislation as written, and recently amended significantly minimized the ability of the people of Georgia to exercise their rights, and I’m curious why you support such legislation?

Much of the language of this legislation is meant to limit the citizens of Georgia from exercising their rights plain and simple.  I am concerned about the bill in it’s entirety and request that you remove your support.

I have some very specific points that I request clarification from you on.
Section 3, subsection 3 (post amendment) states that “It shall be unlawful for any person to use or possess in any park, historic site, or  
recreational area any bows and arrows, spring guns, air rifles, slingshots, or any other  
device which discharges projectiles by any means, unless the device is unloaded and  
stored so as not to be readily accessible or unless such use has been approved within  
restricted areas by prior written permission of the commissioner of natural resources or his or her authorized representative."
-My question is how can you include language in a bill that purports to protect Georgian’s rights to protect themselves, while also removing areas that they can do so?  The way I read this section, you are stating that it will be unlawful to carry any firearm in any park, historic site, or recreational area.  That seems in include WMAs, lakes, road-side historical markers, or anything deemed to be a park, historic site, or recreational area.

Section 5, paragraph a implies that a person must hold a weapons license to carry a handgun within the bounds of their private property.  Is that true?  Are you telling me that the State will dictate that I must hold a weapons license to possess a handgun in my house?

Section 5, paragraph b eliminates the ability to open-carry a long gun.  Why?

Section 5, paragraph c/d eliminates the private property language.  The way I read this is you are now saying that, for instance, a store manager of a retail facility, not the owner of the business, or the owner of the building, may exclude customers from entering with a weapon if they choose, regardless of the viewpoint of the owner.  Is that correct?

Section 5, paragraph e implies you must now possess a weapons carry license to shoot on private property.  Is that correct?

I could go on, but to be honest, I think this is good enough now for you to respond to some of my concerns.  Depending on how redistricting plays you, the map appears to show my house in your new district.  As such, you will represent me.  This legislation does not represent my interests, and I request you not only remove yourself from sponsorship, but also work to remove this from the legislative calendar.  I have also included Mr. Brad Thomas, as he currently represents my area of Cherokee.

I am willing and open to discussion of any of the points I’ve raised, and look forward to your reply.

Respectfully,

Me, my address, and my phone number
But they won't call....

I'm shocked

RINO's doing RINO things.  Disgusting.

so what exactly passed? I read the vote but not the updated bill

It appears all or most of the offending parts of HB 1358 have been removed from the bill.  

Hopefully someone who knows more than me will confirm that.  From what I read in what's labeled as the "current version" amended a couple days ago, all the BS stuff I could find has finally been stripped from the bill.

This bill did pass the House, after being amended to resemble its original form. The anti-gun changes have been been reverted, for now.

We need to not let our guard down though, as Sam Olens and the rest of the antis in Atlanta are embedded pretty deep.

The Speaker (David Ralston) in particular needs to continually hear from us. We need to let him know we don't want any anti-gun changes and that we want more off-limits locations removed.

The current version that passed the House is once again mostly just permit-less carry. The simplest way I can put it, is to say most of what is Georgia law now, minus the requirement for a Weapons Carry License.

All the current "off-limits places" infringements, remain. You would simply be able to carry as usual, with no permit.

Given that one bill has passed the House and one has passed the Senate, the most likely next step is a conference committee, which will conform the two bills (and possible other gun legislation/issues) into one bill. The conference committee bill would then have to go back to each body, and pass once again. After which, Kemp would have to sign it into law. (He will. He's using it to buy votes.)  

Binga, I'm not Mandi Ballinger or Brad Thomas, but I can address your concerns, if you like.

Most of the issues you mention, are current law now. This bill simply removes the permit requirement. While I don't believe this bill goes far enough, it is actually removing the permit requirement from the same places you can carry with a permit now. In other words, in its current state, this bill is technically restoring more freedom than Ga. has now.

While I don't agree with the "off-limits" infringements in current law, this bill isn't adding any, currently.

It does mention a number of off-limits places, but it does add an exception to some of them, referred to as a "Lawful Weapons Carrier". The effect of this is basically to make you a permit holder for purposes of exemption from some of the restrictions, without actually needing a permit.

In other words, it grants you mostly the same exemptions that permit holders have now.

The bill still needs to go further, just as current law needs tons of improvements, but currently, this bill is a net gain.

Thanks for the explanation, and it made me realize that my email was in part off-base.  I was concerned about the amendments that were added, not from Mandi or Brad, and I probably should have worded my email to them a bit differently.  I do appreciate your overview, it was helpful.

Is there a timeline to when it would reach Kemp's desk? And then when the law would go into effect?

About a month after you have to renew your current WCL..

That's the problem

I barely missed the renew window and just had to reapply. The county said 3-5 months for a new one...

So it the other gun bill SB259 dead in the water?

You're welcome. I'm glad it was helpful. Thank you for contacting your elected officials. Not enough voters do. While many people can become discouraged in the process, particularly when those elected officials don't contact them back, it is still important.

Most members of the General Assembly have staff members who keep a tally on legislation, particularly if the official is undecided on the issue. The more contacts made from our side, the better.  

That's a bit of a long story if answered thoroughly, but I'll give it a go.

There's currently 2 bills providing for permit-less carry; Senate Bill 319 and House Bill 1358. Both bills have passed their originating chambers but would need to pass the opposite chamber, in order to be signed by Kemp and become law.

Both bills survived Crossover Day, which means they passed in enough time to come up for a vote in the other chamber, before the session ends.

The current session is set to adjourn on April 4th.

Both bills are currently written to become law as soon as signed by Kemp or as soon as they become law without his signature.

This is rare for gun bills in Georgia, as most laws normally take effect on July 1st, but Kemp has an election he wants to win, so exception it is. (Not unheard of for other bills, but gun bills are always treated as icky in Atlanta.)

In Georgia, the Governor can sign a bill while the General Assembly is in session or once the session ends, as is usually the case. If the bill is sent while in session, the Governor has 6 days to sign it, veto it, or allow it to become law without his signature.

If the bill is sent to the Governor after the session has ended, the Governor has 40 days to sign it, veto it, or allow it to become law without his signature. After 40 days, without a signature or a veto, the bill will automatically become law. A quick answer might be to pick 40 days from April 4th and use that as your guide, but there are variables that can change it.

Brian Kemp will sign the bill, because he wants the gun/NRA vote but it's anybody's guess as to when he'd sign it, because he's not actually pro-gun, he's just spent the last 4 years pretending to be. You can bet there will be a press conference and plenty of cameras, when he does.  

If years past are any guide, the General Assembly will wait until the last few hours of the last few days to actually pass any of these bills, because they're not pro-gun, either; they're pro-getting re-elected. They really have their feelings hurt when mean ole soccer mommies call to lecture them about scary gun bills, so they pass them at the last moment (if at all) and run home, immediately.

Keep in mind this is politics and anything can happen. The Republican party in Ga. plays to lose, same as at the national level. There is nothing they can't screw up. (The Democrats are worse, but at least they play to win.)

I'm sure they're drawing up their apology speeches as we speak. If not for gun bills, then certainly for something (and everything) else.

You may already know this, but you have 30 days after expiration, to be considered a renewal.

No matter what the Probate Court told you, they have 10 days to issue you a WCL, after they receive the eligibility report back from the law enforcement agency.

The law enforcement agency has 20 days to report to the judge, and the judge has to date stamp the report once received, and issue the license within 10 days of that.

Within 5 days of receiving your application, the Probate Judge has to request the report from the law enforcement agency.

You can sue them for not obeying the timeline and the law allows you to recover your attorney fees.

Every Probate Court in Georgia; 159 counties, are currently violating the issuance laws for WCLs. The reason they are doing this is because they are getting away with it. Not enough people are suing them. Every one of them I've ever encountered thinks they are above the law. Every one. They all need the shit sued out of them.

Most people "in the know" recommend that applicants start making noise sometime around the 45 day mark or so.

Don't let them get away with it. Call them on it. Continually quote the law to them. (16-11-129)

If needed, have an attorney do your talking.

Also, I get that you may be past the 30 day renewal timeline after issuance, but just in case the Probate Court told you a lie there too, renewal applicants can request a temporary renewal permit, for $1.00. It is also a shall-issue license. Almost every Probate Court I've encountered lies about this too. Most claim they don't issue them, or don't know about them, they don't exist, etc. They can be sued for this too.

The renewal license is good for 90 days.

Even if you don't need it, get it anyway, because it pisses these statists off. They are required to issue them.

(I'm not trying to call you out or anything here, I say this for the benefit of anyone who may be reading this.)

It survived crossover day. House still has to vote on it.

Thank you for both of your responses.

How would I go about getting that 90-day temporary license? I'm in DeKalb if that matters.

And I intend to call on day 45.

Thanks.

You're welcome.

Glad to hear it and I hope it goes well for you.

Keep in mind you're only eligible for the temporary renewal license if less than 90 days remain until your permit expires or less than 30 days have passed since your permit expired.

Here is the law that mandates issuance of the temp license:

16-11-129 (i)

"(i) Temporary renewal licenses.
(1) Any person who holds a weapons carry license under this Code section may, at the time he or she applies for a renewal of the license, also apply for a temporary renewal license if less than 90 days remain before expiration of the license he or she then holds or if the previous license has expired within the last 30 days.
(2) Unless the judge of the probate court knows or is made aware of any fact which would make the applicant ineligible for a five-year renewal license, the judge shall at the time of application issue a temporary renewal license to the applicant.
(3) Such a temporary renewal license shall be in the form of a paper receipt indicating the date on which the court received the renewal application and shall show the name, address, sex, age, and race of the applicant and that the temporary renewal license expires 90 days from the date of issue.
(4) During its period of validity the temporary renewal license, if carried on or about the holder's person together with the holder's previous license, shall be valid in the same manner and for the same purposes as a five-year license.
(5) A $1.00 fee shall be charged by the probate court for issuance of a temporary renewal license.
(6) A temporary renewal license may be revoked in the same manner as a five-year license.

If you have less than 30 days since the expiration of your permit, I'd take a copy of this portion of the law to the Probate Court and tell them you want to apply for a temporary renewal license, and I'd put down a $1.00 bill as payment. Insist (peacefully and verbally ) that you are applying for the temporary renewal permit as required under 16-11-129. The law is shall issue and if they turn you away/deny you, they are opening themselves up to a lawsuit, if you choose to pursue it.

The trick though, is to make sure you apply. If you simply take their word for it ("a temporary permit doesn't exist") then it can be argued you didn't actually apply, and they didn't actually violate the law. Make sure you put down the money and tell them you're attempting to apply for it.

@lucashood, I just wanted to thank you for all this.  I find it dizzying trying to negotiate all this stuff searching on my own.  I appreciate you taking the time to do it and share it with us.  

@Brandi, you're welcome.

Politics sure can be a mess at times. I'd never argue against it if someone were to say they are intentionally complicated, so as to make life difficult.

I'm glad everyone is finding this helpful. I want our side to have the best access and understanding of politics and law possible, to ensure our rights are protected everywhere under the sun.

Yes, I join in thanking you LucasHood!  You are blessed with the gift of presentational clarity which helps burn away the fog of legislative confusion.  We appreciate your time and efforts.  

You are very welcome, Jack-of-Hearts. Thank you for the kind words, I appreciate that very much. I'm glad you guys are finding this helpful.

From what I can figure, both of these bills are being purposely stalled so that time runs out on them.  GGO said there's 8 business days left on the legislative calender and it appears they want it to die there.  Pretty much what seems to have happened every other time.  

They only pass what they want to pass, not what we want to pass.  I am past the point of giving a fuck any longer.

Yeah, each side is refusing to pass the other sides bill so now both bills will die which is exactly what they want.  If there's one thing I miss about Oklahoma it's that they have real Republicans not the democrats masquerading as Republicans we have here.  I've never been that political but these people have to go!

“…Every Probate Court in Georgia; 159 counties, are currently violating the issuance laws for WCLs…”

Walton County renewal time is 60 days before & 30 days after expiration date on your WCL.
Currently their return time is quoted as two weeks and usually takes less time.
I’m not sure how many renewals they’re getting but new WCL’s are roughly 6 to 12 applications a day.

For a lot of reasons I would like to see the WCL get dropped.????

No kidding.  The only reason CC was brought up is because it’s an election year for these pandering jackasses.  Now they can say “we tried, but the other chamber wouldn’t cooperate.”  


Good old Kemp has been really quiet since his initial “I support cc” announcement as well.  What a surprise…a political hack doing political hack things.


All of the charades they go through piss me off more than just saying, no, we’re not going to do this.  

Politicians prove themselves worthless yet again, fuck 'em all.

 There are a number of members of the General Assembly, past and present who would tell you that group has done a lot of damage to 2nd Amendment rights in Georgia. There are a number who would tell you the same, about the NRA.

Both groups destroyed some of the best gun rights bills we've ever had in Georgia, when they were pretty much assured to pass. We're never going to get that chance back and we're now going to be stuck with the current off-limits places (minus church carry) and other restrictions for the rest of our lives, in Georgia. Both groups undid years worth of work.

That group has accused the author of one of the permit-less carry bills of trying to kill his own bill. They also threatened him, along with other members of the General Assembly.

Their methods of making threats and intimidation have really made many members of the General Assembly see them as toxic.

I generally stay out of this group or that group's drama, but those two groups have done more damage than anyone will ever know.



 

I'm not surprised another Probate Judge is violating the law.

Regardless of what they say, the law mandates they allow renewal 90 days before and 30 days after expiration.
It's a state law, that applies to all 159 counties. Those who are harmed by their refusal to follow the law can pursue a Writ of Mandamus.

The law states:

16-11-129 (i)

"(i) Temporary renewal licenses.
(1) Any person who holds a weapons carry license under this Code section may, at the time he or she applies for a renewal of the license, also apply for a temporary renewal license if less than 90 days remain before expiration of the license he or she then holds or if the previous license has expired within the last 30 days."

I'm glad they're issuing licenses in two weeks, but I've noticed a lot of Probate Judges are using the excuse of quick issuance, to avoid issuing temporaries. I'm not saying Walton County is, but I've heard this from a number of Probate Judges. I particularly enjoy reminding them that the law mandates a temporary, even if it hurts their feelings.

I hear you on the dropped thing. I'd prefer they actually follow the Constitution but we know that's not gonna happen.

Hmm... that's good to know, thank you!

Kemp has been really quiet about errthang since the dominion debacle and dirty dealing leading up to it were brought to light

You're welcome.

Curious, what about Georgia Carry?  Have they done harm in the fight for gun rights?

They're good to go. They've done some good work.

@lucashood I figure if anyone knows this it's you.  

Seems like everyone has gone quiet on constitutional carry after it got sent to the governor's desk.  Everyone is celebrating but I haven't found any reports yet that he's signed it.  Do you have any information on that? Has he already signed it or if not, what's the deal?

@lucashood
Also would like any info you can provide, just received an email from GeorgiaCarry/GA2A saying to contact my reps to get this to floor for a vote. Confused as to where we stand. TIA

@Brandi This is another one of those complicated answers but I'll give it a go.

The short answer is that the bill hasn't been transmitted to the Governor yet. He can ask for it to be, if he chooses but hasn't done so yet, as far as we know.

There are a number of reasons for this, some procedural and some political.

This is fairly common, because if he signs the bill today or earlier, it's considered during session and he'd only have 6 days to sign it. If he waits until the General Assembly adjourns, it's out of session and he'd have 40 days to sign it.

The biggest concern for Kemp is mostly political. He wants to have a signing session, which is just another form of vote buying in front of the cameras, and is very common in politics. So he'll invite the NRA, the press and everyone he's looking to score credit with and sign this in front of cameras.

The Senate version of the permit-less bill is the NRA and Kemp's bill. The House made changes to it and turned it into their version of the bill, but Kemp gave approval to the House to make these changes. He'll sign the bill, but governor's often like drag these things out as a form of control, in addition to the publicity.

If Kemp didn't sign this bill, it would be very unheard of, given that it's his bill, to a large degree. Kemp has mentioned that he looks forward to signing it, however.

I'd basically start a clock from today and add 40 days. If he signs it before then, I'd just view it as a bonus.

Another important detail here though, is that there are currently a few bills that modify or attempt to modify similar code sections. In such a case, signing order of the bills is important. The is part of the procedural holdup of this.

Once these bills are signed or not signed, the code revision committee will have to meet, in order to accept/craft the changes and vote what the new code section will read for the state. In other words, they attempt to formalize what the sum of legislative changes have been to Ga. code.

They are supposed to only change the law to reflect what has passed the General Assembly and been signed into law, but they have screwed us in the past, at the behest of Nathan Deal. They literally re-wrote the law and removed pro-gun changes that were passed into law, in violation of the Georgia Constitution.

Given these concerns, it's pretty routine for there to be a delay in signing this bill.  

@Springer1911Fan Sure, I can shine some light on this. Currently, SB 259, the enhanced preemption bill that will protect shooting ranges on private property, legalize church carry, allow online application of carry permits, and a few other things is currently being stalled by anti-gun Republicans in the legislature.

Anti-gun Republicans from around the state (city and county council members, etc.) and out of state anti-gun groups are really hounding the House to let this bill die, mainly because they do not want the state to be able to tell them they cannot allow shooting ranges within their counties. In other words, counties want to be able to ban shooting ranges within their borders and this bill will help to limit that.

A number of us have been calling, emailing and otherwise shouting from the rooftops to make this bill happen, as today is the last day.

It still has to pass the House, and either return to the Senate for agreement, disagreement or a conference committee. Conference committee is preferred but we need it to go the the House floor for a vote before that can happen.

It has passed the Senate once, so this is possible if everyone makes contact.

In particular, we need to be contacting the House Rules Committee, The Speaker's office, the Governor's office and Republican Majority Leader John Burns, who has been on of the bill's biggest holdups.

If you want more information about the subject, including contact info for everyone I've mentioned, this thread has all the details: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Hometown/Republicants-Gutting-Gun-Legislation-4-4-22-Bill-On-The-Move-Keep-Calling-/35-661109/

Wow, I figured he was just waiting for a press conference.  It's no wonder nothing gets accomplished in politics.  

Thanks for explaining that.

You're welcome.

Apparently Kemp is holding a signing ceremony for constitutional carry/permit-less carry/whatever you call it this Tuesday.  Apparently he's gotten a lot of grief for not signing this bill in a timely manner when other states governor's signed theirs within in hours of being passed out of legislation.  I guess we'll see.

I’ve called and emailed him constantly……… hopefully he does

Probably wanted to wait until it was closer to the primary.

I can confirm this. The vote buying ceremony is scheduled to take place at Gable's Sporting Goods in Douglasville at 3:30 P.M. on April 12th plenty of cameras to go with it.

I can also confirm that, according to the author of SB 259 (the enhanced preemption/shooting range protection/church carry bill) that is was Brian Kemp who instructed Lt. Governor Geoff Duncan to kill this pro-gun bill right as it was about to pass.

While Geoff Duncan is not running for re-election, Brian Kemp is.  

Next up for the Lt. Governor spot behind Duncan, is Senator Butch Miller, who will likely be elected to the position.

Miller is currently President Pro Tem of the Senate and minion of Brian Kemp. He's in line to become the next Casey Cagle, which is fitting, given that he was previously Nathan Deal's minion.  

He already got paid off with his book deal.

Gotta love it.

After coming into the Lt. Gov. position, pretending to be a neutral outsider who was anything but, he's now running home, crying about how politics is just too rough on him.

I guess baseball didn't prepare him for getting his feelings hurt.

@lucashood I can't seem to find this anywhere so I'll ask you.  I know the governor is slated to sign the permit-less carry bill tomorrow (Tuesday) but I can't find any information on when the law actually takes effect once signed.  Do you know the "start date"?