A short introduction is in order. My name is Kelly Burke and I write on the issue of the Georgia's gun laws. My background includes 4 years as the chief magistrate judge of Houston County, Georgia, and then 13 years as the elected district attorney of Houston County. I was admitted to the bar in 1984 upon graduation from Mercer Law School, after an undergraduate stint at Georgia Tech.

I began a Facebook page, Houston County Carries Concealed, a few years ago to help my home county citizens better understand gun laws and to have some fun poking at the anti-gunners in the world. The Facebook page exploded beyond my wildest imagination as people are hungry for accurate, unbiased information about Georgia's byzantine gun laws in plain English (sometimes Southern English). That is what I attempt to do.

I will attempt to run a daily post about some Georgia gun issue. I keep my postings as short as possible because reading a bunch of stuff from a lawyer bores me too.

If you have any questions about Georgia law, feel free to ask. I enjoy the challenge and I constantly learn more and more about the law as a result.

Today's GA weapons law update: Anyone at their home (including surrounding land), business (that they have an ownership interest in) or car (or car they are travelling in), can carry a weapon WITH NO GWCL.

Even cooler? You can carry that weapon any way you like! In your pocket without a holster, stuffed in your crotch, hidden in your bra, in your belt, strapped to your leg with duct tape, hidden in your hat...

Pass this to your friends and enjoy your beautiful, cool summer day.

Kelly

Potatobook link for the search challenged: https://www.facebook.com/HoustonCountyCarriesConcealed

The issue of carrying in one's "place of business" has never been fully answered by the Georgia appellate courts, but we think that it has been answered in this manner:

In Ely v. State, 222 Ga. 651 (1996), the court dealt with a landlord/tenant case. In that case, the landlord got charged with possession of a gun in the parking lot of some property he owned, but leased to a tenant. The court held that was not "one's business" as the landlord did not exercise legal control over the property, the tenant did: It said: "The rented premises described in the present case certainly can not be said to be the defendant's home or his place of business. He had no possession, nor did he have a right of possession (at that time) of the premises occupied by his tenant; nor had he any right to the use and enjoyment thereof so long as the tenancy existed. The tenant had the right of exclusive use and possession . . . and the defendant had no right to enter to carry a pistol there during the life of the tenancy."

We also note from an old case: "This being a prosecution upon the charge of carrying a pistol without a license, and it not appearing, from the evidence, that the accused had a pistol at any place other than his home or place of business (the testimony showing that at the time he was alleged to have had the pistol in his possession he was on a farm where he lived and worked, and which he owned in common with others), his conviction was unauthorized, and a new trial should have been granted. See Coker v. State, ante, 425; Miller v. State, ante, 479." Franklin v. State, 1913 Ga. App. LEXIS 600. Again, showing an ownership interest.

Under that rationale, we believe that in order to claim a "place of business" exception to the carry law, one has to have an ownership interest in the premises such that they have some modicum of control.

If someone has a different case, we'd be happy to see it. This is a gray area until the court's explicitly deal with it.

We could be wrong. Just get a GWCL and problem solved.

I'll go through the weapon related laws on Lexis a couple times a year and do my best to
understand the law-speak.

Your input would be greatly appreciated.

Yes, that would be fantastic.

Welcome to Arfcom and thanks for what you do.  

Define anyone.....anyone, as in my son who is under the age of 18? As I understand it, he can carry anything I allow him to carry.

Sorry to be so late, I am usually pretty quick to respond. I took my lovely wife to Utah for a week's vacation and promised her no computers! She held me to it. I'll address HB60, private property, castle doctrine and more in the coming days. Thanks for hanging in there.

The Georgia Safe Carry Protection Act (HB60), called “Guns Everywhere” by its detractors, has created a bit of confusion in the general public, so I thought I’d go over some points very briefly that you can tack on your refrigerator as a daily reminder of how safe, or unsafe, Georgia remains after HB60’s passage.

I get asked lots of questions:

1. “Does everyone need a weapons license?”  Anyone over 18 not ineligible to possess a firearm can have a handgun on their person at their property, place of business and in their car. No license required. Scary? Nope, it’s pretty much been that way for a long time.

2. “I’m against drunk people having guns, why does Georgia let people carry in a bar?”” Anyone with a Georgia Weapons Carry License (GWCL) can now carry in a bar! Shocking, no? Well, they could before. Only difference is that before you had to have permission and now you have to be told you can’t. Ohh, not that big a deal, huh?

3. “I can’t believe that my church has to let gun toters in!” Yes, those dastardly GWCL holders can carry in church now. Oh, but only if the church allows it. Turns out that is the same rule pretty much everywhere. If a private property owner doesn’t want guns on their property, they can have that rule. Is private property ownership scary to you?

4. “But those GWCL holders can carry into government buildings now! How can that be?” Well, since government types didn’t bother to screen before HB60, they were apparently okay with letting criminals into their buildings undetected, so why the upset that the licensed GWCL holders can come in now? Want to keep all guns out? Provide security, but make no mistake, illegal gun possession in City Hall has been going on for years and you didn’t get too worked up about it.

5. “I heard that courthouses aren’t safe anymore.” Under HB60, no one can carry in a courthouse unless exempt because of being a law enforcement officer, prosecutor, medical examiner, etc. Same rule as before. Technically, a courthouse doesn’t need a security station since guns aren’t allowed there, so the criminals and GWCL holders should leave their guns in their cars. Alas, if the criminals don’t follow the law, the courthouse security folks are there to scan for weapons just in case. Question, if you don’t trust the criminals in the courthouse, why did you trust them in government buildings all these years?

6. “I think GWCL holders should be fingerprinted!” True, on renewal, HB60 provides that no new fingerprints are needed. The authorities still do a criminal background check though. And since one’s fingerprints don’t change, we don’t have to waste time on that anymore.

7. “But schools can now let staff and teachers have guns? I’m against that!” Well, so are most school districts apparently, but now they have the option which they didn’t have before. Are you really against choice?

8. “I heard the government can’t keep a database of GWCL holders?” Yep, that’s true. Against that you say? Why? If you’re not coming to get my gun, why do you need a statewide database? If you insist on a statewide database, I think maybe you do want to come after my guns. If so, don’t come alone, you’ll need help.

9. “I heard that hunters can use suppressors now! What if they shoot me?” Yep, they will be allowed to use suppressors. If they shoot you, you wouldn’t have heard the bang anyway. Relax. Stay on your land and don’t dress up like a deer, chances are you’ll be okay.

10. “Is it true cops can’t stop someone carrying a gun?” No, that is not true. Any officer, any time, can stop anyone carrying a weapon and ask them for their GWCL. The citizen can tell the officer to take a hike too. What the cop can’t do is DETAIN someone just because they have a weapon. Now if the cop has some articulable reason for the detention, they can detain the person. But just possessing a car doesn’t let a cop pick you out on the road and stop you, does it? Don’t they have to have a reason? They do! Same with guns.

Feel better?

Kelly Burke, master attorney, former district attorney and magistrate judge, is engaged in private practice where he focuses on personal injury cases. These articles are not designed to give legal advice, but are designed to inform the public about how the law affects their daily lives. Contact Kelly at <Edited out email> to comment on this article or suggest articles about the law that you'd like to see.

I have a new person to champion to be the Attorney General of the United States......

No, they don't. There are license checks and DUI roadblocks set up every day in our "free state".

Still trying to figure out how that bullshit is legal. Stopping every car on the road = no probable cause.

Everyone wasn't speeding, everyone wasn't swerving, everyone didn't have a tail light out. Fucking bullshit.

Stopping every car is legal, but not right. The courts have held that road safety checks are a legitimate government action with a measurable public good. We can disagree with that, and I do to some extent, but it is the law. On my gun analogy, IF the cops decided to stop EVERY citizen walking down the road to ask for their identification (which is NOT allowed at this point, but who knows), then they could stop John Guntoter and ask him for his ID. But not for his gun license I contend.

You DON'T have a GWCL in this scenario. You are one of the 95% of Georgian's who rely on the fact that GA allows you to carry a gun in your home, business or car without a GWCL. So here is the issue:

You leave your home. You go to Atlanta and decide to stay at the swanky Hotel B in Buckhead. Can you legally carry your firearm into your room?

If GA law is like SC, then yes.  The place you are staying is an extension of your home, and you can carry between the hotel room and your vehicle.

The property that you walk on between your car and the hotel room isn't your property. I say no.

 

Let’s say you possess a GWCL and carry into a church that doesn’t permit carry. Let’s say they call the police and you are cited for illegally carrying into a place of worship. What happens?

The easy answer is you are found guilty and ordered to pay a $100 fine. (OCGA 16-11-127)(e)(2).

Now, the harder question. Do you lose your GWCL?

A good argument is that the limit of your prosecution is the $100 fine, and that loss of your GWCL is an additional punishment. You’d lose. The GWCL issue is a consequential damage which arguably happens as a result of your conviction in court.

But is the loss of license possible anyway?

OCGA 16-11-129(e): “If, at any time during the period for which the weapons carry license was issued, the judge of the probate court of the county in which the license was issued shall learn or have brought to his or her attention in any manner any reasonable ground to believe the licensee is not eligible to retain the license, the judge may, after notice and hearing, revoke the license of the person upon a finding that such person is not eligible for a weapons carry license…”

OCGA 16-11-129(b)(2) “No weapons carry license shall be issued to: (H) Any person who has been convicted of any of the following: (ii) Carrying a weapon or long gun in an unauthorized location in violation of OCGA 16-11-127 (the prohibited places, which in this case is the church)...”

So yes, I contend that you can certainly lose your GWCL by being found guilty (plea or otherwise) of carrying in a non-carry church. BUT …

How will the judge know? A citation without arrest does not go on your criminal history. The only way a charge ends up on your criminal history is an arrest with the accompanying fingerprints. The fingerprints are the magic! Without them, your GCIC criminal history never knows you have been charged, never mind convicted.

So unless the prosecutor calls up the probate judge, or the LEO calls up the judge, how is the judge gonna know? They won’t. I’d say that you have an excellent chance of retaining your license even if found guilty of carrying in a non-carry church. But why risk it?

Oh, and for those that want to argue with me, your citations for driving offenses are different, they get linked to your driving record via your DL number. A driving offense only gets on your criminal history if you are arrested (like for a DUI).

As always, I could be wrong. I was once before.

I work in a local government building without security screening.  Our county's Employee Policy prohibits an employee from carrying while on duty (with the exception of LEOs, judges, etc).  We have been told that even though the public can legally carry in our building, employees cannot.  Since this is a public property and not a private property, do they have the legal right to restrict employees from carrying?

answered several times in online searches, but want clarification.

Active duty military gets treated same as police when it comes to CCW, correct?  As in, I can carry in malls, parks, Turner Field, museums, the aquarium ... ?  Restaurants that serve alcohol (assuming I don't drink)?

Depends on the location.  I know that only the LEOs in the jurisdiction of Turner Field can get in with their weapons.  It used to be any LEO but they changed it recently.

OK so FYI, Turner Field, world of coke and GA aquarium don't allow ccw or pocket knives on location.  Listed in their websites, some signs and via Google.  Wands and metal detectors at all the above.

Good to know.  Thanks.

After the Abramski v. United States ruling, I want to make sure I am doing the right thing.  I purchased a gun for my fiance for her birthday.  She doesn't have her GWL yet, so I was planning on carrying it for the time being until she got approved.  Is it considered a straw purchase if I purchase the firearm and then give it to her free of charge as a gift?

As a fellow Georgia attorney - thanks for posting all of this.  It's extremely helpful and insightful.

jarmstrong, while this is not an issue of Georgia law, but federal, no, it is not a straw purchase.  It is perfectly acceptable to purchase a firearm as a bona fide gift for another.  You do not have to "transfer" the gun in any way, other than by putting a pretty bow on it.

The Abramski opinion notes that the questions ask whether you are buying the gun as a gift.  Question 11.a.  Page 3 of the Abramski opinion.  

In the Abramski case, Bruce Abranski accepted money from his uncle to buy the gun for him.  It was not a gift.  The uncle was the actual purchaser.

I hope this response was helpful to you.

As an initial matter, any person with a license can drink alcohol and carry a gun in a restaurant or bar without violating any firearms law.  Active duty military is exempt from the requirement of a license to carry a handgun and the list of places off limits in Georgia.  See O.C.G.A 16-11-130 (which you will note is the same statute that grants an exemption to LEOs, court clerks, prosecuting attorneys, coroners, and many others).  There is also an Attorney General opinion on the issue of active duty military being exempt from needing a license to carry.

I would not expect most police officers to know this, however, or even to be aware of the existence of OCGA 16-11-130, or the fact that this is why they are not breaking Georgia law by carrying a gun around in their duty belts, or the fact that there are other people on that list besides themselves.  Most of them think they can carry just because they are police.  They do not spend time studying up on Georgia gun laws.  Expect trouble if, for instance, you try to enter a government building with security screening that is letting police officers inside.

The short answer is yes, so long as you are working, and no, so long as you are off duty.

See OCGA 16-11-173(c)(1)  "A county or municipal corporation may regulate the transport, carrying, or possession of firearms by employees of the local unit of government in the course of their employment with such local unit of government"

SC law specifically addresses this issue.

GA law does not.

A license is required in GA to carry a handgun outside of your home, place of business, car, or property.   I suppose you can argue that your home is the swanky Hotel B in Buckhead, and maybe the trial judge and the appellate court judges will buy that, and maybe the won't.  There is no case law addressing this subject.

A roadblock is different.  It may be that if there is some problem with persons carrying firearms that can be addressed by sidewalk blocks and checking every pedestrian that walks down the street for a firearms license, that the court would uphold it, but I doubt that is going to happen.

An officer cannot, however, pull you over merely because he saw you driving.  

"What is the problem, officer?"

"I just wanted to see if you were licensed."

"What is your reasonable suspicion that I am not licensed?"

"Hey, you are out here driving openly.  Everybody can see it.  How do I know you are not driving on a suspended license?  Huh?  How do I know you are not a habitual violator?  That is a felony.  How do I know you are not a felon?  I don't.  So I am going to check you out."

Nobody would stand for that with respect to driver's licenses.

The argument is precisely the same with respect to handguns.

I hope nobody minds me stepping in.  It was a shame that such a good thread is being ignored.  If my answers are a problem, then I will stop.

Any legal expertise on these matters is greatly appreciated from my view point.

 

The new guy didn't know who MP is :-)

MIFF: you can probably thank him alone for personally having the greatest hand in our carry freedom that we now enjoy in Georgia.

He's the Ga expert fly... You can take the word from me or wait and others will chime in.

Fantastic. Thanks for stepping in and helping us understand this better.

I'll bite.
Who's MP?

(not that I question his commitment or accomplishments, I just don't know everyone here)

Founder of Georgia carry, writer of all the pro gun bills back to sb308, and ask around nice guy.

The fact he is a prominent lawyer shouldn't be held against him....

Does this apply to non residents? If I am traveling as a Virginia resident with a VA Concealed Handgun Permit (no reciprocity with Georgia) to Florida. Is it legal to have a loaded and concealed pistol on my person while in my car? The way the law (16-11-126) currently reads I would assume "Anyone" doesn't necessarily mean a GA resident.

Your car is like your house. So yes you can have it anywhere.

Just don't leave the car with it.

Disclaimer:I am not a lawyer and only have a rudimentary understanding of English...

appreciate your input



clown

What would this matter legally? All they can do is ask you to leave right? You can't be arrested for violating their corporate policy.