http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1089448&page=1

Mine involved tannerite so I couldn't do it on a public street. I will have to wait to get get the video from my photographers.

Self edited before SYSTEM MESSAGE

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Did anyone see that the thread linked to above is now locked?  Read the reason/"system message" that 82ND-ABN (mod, staff, whatever) posted.



Wow.  That's disgusting.  We can't advocate burning a book?  Really?  I'm more disgusted by the burning of a US flag (not a damaged one being properly disposed of - you know what I mean) than I am any book.  How can any site that preaches about the 2nd Amendment be opposed to non-violent behavior (that I wouldn't even mind my 2-year-old watching) that is protected by the 1st?

I see it now, like you guys said.  Wow.

This is why I pretty much only frequent the HTF and sometimes I'll venture over to the tech forums.

I saw that.

Stop for a second and listen to yourself as you state "let's burn books"

You sound really intelligent when you say that out loud don't you?

Let me see if I can make this make some sense for you. If a PERSON burns, destroys, barfs on, or what ever, their own personal property, without doing anything to INFRINGE upon anyone else's RIGHTS. I don't have any problem with that. It is my choice to give them the power over me to make me mad or pissed off, or I can just shrug my shoulders and walkaway saying what dipshit he/she is.

If the STATE (that would be gubbermant for those who don't understand the big words) comes out taking all of certain books, art, media, music, ect... and burns, destroys, runs over with a bulldozer or whatever they have NOW INFRINGED UPON YOURS AND MY RIGHTS by preventing the access to and enjoyment of what ever the STATE DECIDED to prevent you or I from reading, listening to Or just simply put OUR LIBERTY HAS NOW BEEN VIOLATED.

Think on that.

is what i can post on the subject

very well said

Chris,

You are correct.  Same as me tying my old GI Joes to trees and shooting them when I was a kid.  I do not agree with the Gov't doing it.

Point taken.

On a side note, do you sell suppressors now?

You can post all the pictures you want of mutilated human bodies, but the minute you post burning the above mentioned or dodo you get dick slapped.

Book Burning:  Carried out by the dumbest people on earth since before the dark ages.  Seriously, Qur'an burners should stop acting like illiterate fools.

According to David_A those are only fence sitters

You still don't get do you, it's not that they are burning a book to prevent someone from knowing and learning from what is written inside the books. This all stems from the government stepping in and telling a sovereign individual what he can and cannot do with his own personal property. Which as long as the person does not infringe on someone else's rights.

And don't give that bull shit about putting troops in danger, they have been in danger from attack the minute they stepped foot in-country and remain in danger until they return home.

ETA...What I am seeing right now is that those who are now stepping up and participating in this are not so much anti muslim but making a statement against the current administrations involvement withe the nut case preacher in FL.

Yup, I get that it is not their intent to prevent someone form knowing and learning what is written in the books.  But lets face it, when people burn books they choose to associate themselves with and act like dumb illiterate fools.

The government never stopped him from burning the Qur'an.

You really believe that a call from the SOD and a visit from the FBI and who knows what else that wasn't reported had no bearing on Terry Jones' decision not to burn them in FL.

Or do you believe that they agreed to move the location of the ground zero mosque?

Good thing, Islam is not at war with us.  Otherwise, muslims would be killing Christians and Jews ........

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/09/12/assailants-stab-beat-christian-worshippers-outside-indonesias-capital/?test=latestnews



Where are the wonderful ministers and preachers proclaiming our need to be tolerate of the muslims?   Are they physically defending their brothers?   ah yes,  tolerace really means submission.     Their attitude was best described by the Anglican Archbishop, Rowan Wiliams, who said " adopting parts of Islamic Sharia law would help maintain social cohesion."   He also said,   "what we don't want either, is I think, a stand-off, where the law squares up to people's religious consciences." ... like if beating your wife is allowed or not.

Chris .... I think we need to organize a Quran Bacon BBQ and Blast to raise money for the victims of the Religion of Peace.


PS - To do the protest right, you have to use Israeli ammo.   That really upsets the Religion of Peace.

There were probably implied threats of anal cavity IRS audits of the chuch, pastor and congregation; threats to revoke non-profit status; threats of imprisonment for something, etc.

Why hasn't the federal government put as much effort into getting the mosque to voluntarily move away from ground zero?

Its probably the non-profit status threat.    Churches and Synagogues are not supposed to be used for political purposes.   Mosques are exempt, of course.  

For God's sake, don't open a door for Dave_A to come over here.

He's in his element in GD.

When I read history books, all I do is change the names....and I can predict the future.

This.

100%

I think (I'm not in their heads, so I can't say for sure) that he wasn't burning the book to get rid of it as a form of censorship.  That's why books were burned in the past - to get them out of stores and libraries and prevent people from reading them.  In this case, it is either (a) a statement that the burner is pissed with the way Muslims are so touchy-feely about everything and yet can burn our flags, butcher our people, and video it and laugh or be treated as heroes, or (b) it is a big "screw you" to Muslims in general.  There could be racism or hatred for Muslims in general as a motive as well - I don't know.

All I know is that it most likely pissed off the people behind the 9/11 attacks and all of the ones who have killed or wounded our troops ever since then.  As such, I support it.  I don't advocate you or I do the same - I would hate to get booted from the site.  But I certainly don't think it had anything to do with the narrow-minded "book burning" you know from the past.  Anyone who can't see that must not be paying attention well enough to the news reports starting with the Gainesville pastor who planned to burn Korans on 9/11 up until now.

Also shows that some are willing to be as down and dirty and play their game. Dwindles the differences between some of us and some of them...... And some....might as well be all of us.





 

You are right, its a new form of narrow-minded book burning.

I think it is safe to say that many of the same people that support burning the Qur'an for the above mentioned reasons (see (a) and (b) quoted above) also despise burning the American flag.

I don't think burning the American flag or the Qur'an is a good idea.

Here is a nice little summary:

Terrorists:  Like burning the American flag and don't like people burning the Qur'an
Some other people:  Don't like people burning the American flag and do like burning the Qur'an

Neither has the moral high ground on this issue.

Like Jane Fonda, President Clinton, specific members of SCOTUS, war protestors of the '60's, and Code Pink.



Like people who don't want to bow down to bullies, who will stand up for women's rights, and people who understand that Liberty intimidated is Liberty surrendered.   Yes, we ARE alllowing ourselves to be intimidated.



What would be the morally high way to express a person's opposition toward a viewpoint that they consider wrong and somewhat evil.   Beheading seems so messy.  

I'll paraphrase President Kennedy .... those who make peaceful protest impossible will make violent protest inevitable.

100% this as well!!!

Your property your right, Flag, Quran, or whatever it might be.

Rich

We only allowed ourselves to be intimidated when we came up with the crazy idea to burn the books in the first place.

We will not win this war if we desecrate Islam's holy book.  When we do things like that we alienate every Muslim person in the world.  What exactly is the point of that?

We take the moral high ground when we express our opposition toward a viewpoint with persuasive arguments and take actions that are actually productive and not things that amount to "OMG, we can really piss them off if we do this, LOL"

I doubt Kennedy would have advocated burning the Qur'an.

Your still not getting the whole picture, we cannot and will not win this war. This is a theological war and the only outcome acceptable the the muslim nut jobs is total submission by us to them.

The only thing that would be understood would be meeting force with exceeding overwhelming force that these f'ing nut jobs would not poke their heads out of their caves for another 1000 fucking years.

Unfortunately for us and them THIS would be the only way this theological war could be won. It might not be theological to the us in the United States but it is to them. The hearts and minds strategy is a losing proposition and has been every where it's been tried.

We certainly will not win if we turn every Muslim against us, but we might win if we turn everyone against the nut jobs.  Burning Qur'ans turns the moderate and reasonable Muslims against us and makes us look like the nut jobs.  So again, what's the point?

I don't claim to have the answers but what we have been doing for the last 50 years isn't working and we are losing.

I don't know maybe this will help.

Video

I have a strong feeling that Mecca and other HOLY ciities would have been burning after 9/11.    JFK was in many ways more conservative than Reagan.    Remember, he did Bay of Pigs, the missle crisis, and started us in Viet Nam.    He took our enemies seriously.  

You do remember his brother, Bobby, was murdered by an Arab?

Islam has been at war with the US from the very day of our nation's founding.    The priracy got so bad, Jefferson sent the Marines to handle the situation.   Those Marines weren't singing kumbaya and  handling the Koran with white gloves.
Another example of thier continuing war agianst us is that they were allied with Hilter during WW2.  

We are facing evil.    Most people turn away and deny it because its so ugly and scary.     That is how Hilter got in power.     He scared his political opposition so much that they resigned enmass based on the promise he wouldn't hurt them.    Sound familar?

The Muslims have three segments within their followers, those that will not apply violence, those that will apply violence and those who fence sit and could go either way. Same as above with our citizens, some will, some wont and some might if they were pushed hard enough.
Pleading, bending over and attempting to take the high road with religious zealots will only end in failure and there are many past failures to learn this from. The only way to establish leverage over terrorist's or their enablers is total control, anything less will only embolden them and their future actions.
I am for allowing citizens to go and do as they please, pretty simple isn't it?
When the pacifist's and sympathizers of these Muslim extremist's, with the same God given rights, begin to preach tolerance, tell us what we should and should not do and basically bend over to these pieces of shit...................Well, its time to rethink who is sane and who is insane!
I'm sick and tired of watching "so called" Americans, defend the acts of terrorists and play patty cake with them, all while condemning those of us who stand up in various acts of disagreement while being well within our right to do so.
I applaud anyone who has the balls or the vaginal strength to stand up for what they believe, especially if it is a direct and obvious finger of discontent toward the people who would attempt to hurt or destroy what our country stands for.
There is a time for dialogue and there is a time to exert maximum force.................do you understand the difference here?
 
 

Yes I do.

Burning the Qur'an = "OMG, we can really piss them off if we do this, LOL"

Burning the Qur'an does not equal "exerting maximum force" It is NO force.

When I said "Actions that are productive" I did not mean play patty cake with them.  I meant, in part, sending 500,000 troops over there and killing our enemies.  I meant focusing military force against those that are seeking to destroy us.

Who is defending the acts of terrorists?  I certainly am mot.

On another note:

You say "I am for allowing citizens to go and do as they please, pretty simple isn't it?"  But you probably think Obama can Clinton are idiots and criticize them for some (or all) of the things they have said, done or propose to do.

I never said the government should prevent the pastor from burning the Qur'an.  I just called him an illiterate fool for doing it.  Do you understand the similarities here?

We need to engage some people with our military because we can only with them over through their death, we need to engage others with our hearts and minds.  Do you understand the difference here?  I don't know what percentage of Muslim's seek our destruction.  I am sure there are those who have contributed to this thread who think 100% of them do, but I can assure them that they are incorrect.  I know Muslims, I count some as my friends.  We have had discussions about terrorists and Muslim extremists.  The people I know do not seek the destruction of the west.  They were born here, they love America, they want this country to succeed and win the war.  Yet I listen to people on this site who just assume that these people be killed along with all the other Muslims.

The FBI visiting you to coerce you not to burn your own books is no different than them taking your books and burning them, government oppression either way.  On another note, I will never forget, as long as I live, news coverage showing hundreds of thousands of muslims celebrating in the streets of saudi arabia, iran, and palistine on 9/12. I whole heartedly support any form of insult towards muslims that does not directly violate the law. that is all.