Lots a discussion and what not about NFA in NC.















































 

Yeh it looks like HB650 basically changed nothing as far as NFA goes in NC.  All the stuff listed you can put on a Trust now are all the same things you could put on a Trust before.  And just as before you can't get a MG unless the Sheriff is going to sign for you.  Because there is basically no difference between a "permit" and a signature.   Because the Sheriffs who wouldn't give a "permit" before are not all of a sudden going to sign the Form 4.  And the ones who gave permits before will be more than willing to just sign the Form 4 now.  So hear again  nothing changes.  Just disappointed with this bill in general the more I read it.  All it really did was make alot of administrative changes.  Oh well this is what we get from our friends I can't tell much difference in them and our "enemies".    Sorry for the rant.  

Just out of curiosity, if someone were to move from GA to NC (permanent residence change), would you have to re-register each NFA item and get it signed for in NC?
What about if said items were licensed to an LLC?
Oh, and I'm guessing you'd probably need the 5320.20 to transport them in the first place during the move....

If it matters at all, I'm asking specifically about suppressors and SBRs, though if you know about MGs or AOWs, I'm interested in knowing how the law works there.

-Mike

ETA: Sam, yep! I was in the sinking building. hahaha
I just looked it up and after they started building Harrelson, they realized it was on a fault line as it began to sink during construction. That actually may have been why we felt it better than a lot of other people... Maybe...

I'm not 100% with the LLC, I know you will have to do the 5320.20, but they are not registered.
MG I believe would require a signature.

For counties that sign, just ask and have someone PM you.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

wrong thread dude, wrong thread, lol

HAHA! Wow! that's what I get for having two reply tabs open at once! Dammit!

Otherwise, thanks for the answer MadMardigan

So is it better to wait for the new law to come in effect, or go ahead and setup a trust and start the ATF paperwork?

Its running about 5 months for paper work right now...

 

When was your most recent stamp? I got one earlier this year, at my door 88 days after the check was processed

I'm still waiting. Sent March 11, had an error on 8/12, sent back on 8/19.

Wow. I sent one in Feb, got it back 91 days exactly. Who is your examiner? I had Snook but have Pickles for the F4 I just sent in, as per the new reassignment. My FFL told me his forms are running 4.5mo, I suspect the examiner reassignment has really slowed things down.

Just curious what method did you use to set up a trust, lawyer, quicken, etc

Individual, I live in a county that is friendly.

 

I called a couple months ago, they said 4 months, at the end of the 4 months, they said 5 months.

 

I just put in my paperwork on Thursday for a suppressor.  I've been kicking the idea around for a while and finally decided to go for it.  My first purchase is pretty simple, a Coastal Passport .22 LR suppressor.  I expect I am going to purchase a Ruger 22/45 with a threaded barrel sometime before the paperwork comes back, and I also plan to use it on an AR with a .22 LR kit installed.

I went the trust route, though getting a CLEO signature in the county I live in wouldn't be a problem.  I asked the chief if he would sign off (I live in his jurisdiction, so he is able to sign for anything but an MG), and he said no problem, but in the end the trust just seemed like less of a hassle, especially for future purchases.  I sent the paperwork priority mail with delivery confirmation.  It is supposed to be delivered today according to the USPS website.  So, the wait begins.

I have plans right now for five NFA items.  No machineguns, just too much money for those these days.  Hopefully I can stick to my five, because that is $1000 in taxes.  I'm looking at:

.22 LR Suppressor
.308 Suppressor
9mm or .45 ACP Suppressor
SBR 5.56mm AR
SBR 9mm AR

I know these things tend to breed, much like ARs, but I expect the above list to complete my list of "needs" at least for a while.  It will likely take years to assemble as it is.

He is able to sign for MG, if he is able to sign for everything else, it's up the CLEO.

or <1 decked out AR depending how hardcore you go, lol

that's part of why yours is taking so long. Trusts tend to get approved fast.

I'm just waiting for the FBI finger prints to come back to the ATF now.  But MG is only Individual, but I will prob do Silencers and the 2 SBRs I have planned as individual too since the CLEO is friendly.





 

On form 1 question 4i (state why you intend to make firearm) what should I put there? I thought I read somewhere on here that for NC there was something specific you had to out there but can't find where I read it. Just curious as to what everyone else put there.

Not 100% but:

One of mine.

My understanding is that machineguns require a "permit" from the Sheriff, at least right now (not really clear on whether that is changing December 1).  So, I suppose the chief could sign off on the form 4, but I would still need the sheriff's signature on a permit.  Is that not correct?

The permit goes away after Dec change in the law.
All it is a piece of paper that says you can have a machine gun signed by the sherrif.
But if a sherrif will sign a form 4, he will sign the permit too.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Quick question for guys using a trust. When filling out a form 1 for the address should I put trust name, my name, and then address? or just trust name then address?

Refer to turbosam's post here
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_34/461528_NFA_in_NC_.html&page=1#i4972710

Ha my bad disregard this post.......long day.

Line 2A will have your trust name and your addy. That is what mine has anyway, approved on 1/3/11

Could someone pm me with any information about SBR and Silencers in Meck Co please.

Thanks!

I just moved here (wayne co) with a boatload of stuff (MGs/can/sbs/sbrs) and had to jump through the hoops and deal with the new HB650.
5320's: I sent all these off and they were held up becuase the reason for the move (PCS move due to military orders) was not valid. I talked with the examiner Sandra Snook (she is awesome btw) and she said I would need a statement that the reason was for "testing IAW NCGS 14-288.8). So I emailed a PDF with a signed letter that I will be doing tesing int NC to move my weapons here. I knew the req fpr form1/4s but had no idea it was req for a 5320. So far I have some MVs and ROF in different configurations.
The old "permit from the sherrif" that does not exist/no longer exsits (SECTION 9. G.S. 14-409): I posted on this forum and talked with many persons about this. To own weapons of mass destruction in NC you must have a permit from the sherrif according to old state law < Dec 1 2011. Well the one problem is there is no such form or standard at the state level. Its some make up bullshit that each sherrif must do own there own. Problem is most do not know how to do it, so they won't becuase of some misguided thoughts about liability.
What I had to do was call the local sherrif. They did not know what to do so they called the local ATF. The local ATF told them they would need copies of all my form 4s (local ATF does not even know the rules). They also took info from me to update their database (I was in there already to get handgun permits). Instead of arguing I gave them copies. I had the ATF handbook with me where it defines the only persons who could demand production of the Form 4, but since I knew it would cause problems I just made copies. (see NFA, 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53, THE NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT, TITLE 26, UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER 53
INTERNAL REVENUE CODE)

. I also had the new HB 650 and gave them a copy to explain the differences.
When I asked about the permit, they had no idea what I was talking about. Again I gave them copies of the NC laws and explained what I wanted. The officer finally gave me a piece of paper on a dept letterhead saying that said I had met all NC laws and informed the sherrif of my arsenal. Note that IAW HB650 SECTION 9. G.S. 14-409 I do not need such a letter . I got it anyway because its been a total clusterfuck in dealing with everyone and it would be easier to give someone that then explain USG code as well as HB650.
The take away is that no one knows the laws and no one is willing to test them. You can see that from the myriad of post on this very site.  I have met other NFA owners and they report the same thing and hassles. I also have to give a lecture every time I shoot becuase I tend to gather a crowd (I don't mind that at all becuase hopefully it will up the NFA membership)
The one good thing is that I have made some headway with the new guys on the local sherrifs dept and got to inform the local range guys about NFA/GCA/HB650 etc  
My next step will be to throw a form 1 and see it the sign off process will go as smooth. I doubt it.


 

Hopefully it gets better, now that you are no longer required to have a permit from the CLEO is better, but to purchase a MG, you still require to have his signature.

This was in NOV, before HB650.



 

So if you don't need the "permit" for a MG from the Sheriff anymore as of DEC 1, 2011 then does that not also mean you can do a MG on  a Trust?  Because everthing else was always approved on a Trust before.  With the exception of a MG because it required the "permit".   Since that is no longer required then does it not logically mean you can do a MG just like a SBS, SBR, SUPR, etc.

I talked to staff from NFA Branch at SHOT about this specifically.  Their view is that until they get a new interpretation on the new law from the NC AG, there's no change in NFA Branch policy with respect to NC state requirements for MGs.  I can provide the name of the person I talked to, I just don't want to post on a public forum - IM me if interested.
 
 

Does this mean that now that the CLEO signature will no longer be on the Form 4 does that mean you can do a machine gun on a Trust? I wonder.  If you don't need the permit anymore and ATF no longer requires the CLEO signature then what would prevent us from doing a machine gun on a Trust?  Or is there still some stupid language in the NC law that prevents a machine gun on a Trust?

No, for new purchases of MGs you still have to get the CLEO signature.

Since the ATF is dropping the CLEO signature on the Form 4 then I wonder where the heck the sheriff is going to sign it?  Doesn't make any sense.  And its total BS that people from other states can move here and not need a damn thing from the Sheriff but someone like me who has lived here all my life and been paying taxes since I was 16 I need approval from the Sheriff.  That is BS.  Who exactly is the moron that decided to  fix it this way in HB 650?  I thought that bill was supposed to make things better for NFA
ownership in NC.  It didn't do a damn thing to make it any better.  It changed nothing.

It really isn't completely clear how HB650 changed the issue of machineguns in NC.  Some people say it does nothing, others say it removed the signature requirement.  The problem is that it isn't as clear as it should be in the statute, opening it to various readings.

That is whats so ridiculous about it.  I thought these people who wrote the bill were lawyers and know what their doing.  They should have let one of us write the bill if this is the result you get from letting the so-called "smart" people do things.   Your right about what you said. And nobody is going to first spend thousands of dollars on a machine gun and then try to put it on a Trust to then get rejected by the ATF.  It sucks for those of us that can afford one but own a home in a Communist county like Forsyth, LOL.  

Not sure I understand how this is the case.  How did you reach this conclusion reading the new law?



 

Would someone please PM me about the best route (Form 1 vs. trust) for an SBR in Mecklenburg county?

because it says you dont need a permit if you have the form 4s approved from the atf






SECTION 8. G.S. 14-288.8(b)




"(b)
This section does not apply to: to any of the following: (snip.....)



(5)
Persons who lawfully possess or own a weapon as defined in subsection (c) of
this section in compliance with 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53, §§ 5801-5871.





I.E a form 4.





and in SECTION 9. G.S. 14-409(b) reads as rewritten:






Provided,
however, that this subsection shall not
apply to the following (snip....)



; a
person who lawfully possesses or owns a weapon as defined by subsection (a) of
this section in compliance with 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53, §§ 5801-5871.





I.E a form 4 again



the new hb has the permit shit taken out





 

Well if the permit stuff is taken out then why can't I put a MG on a Trust.  The ATF always said they would not approve a MG on a Trust here in NC because you had to have the "permit" from the sheriff.  Well if the "permit" thing is no longer required then why will ATF still not apporve a MG on a Trust.  It is really confusing.  It makes no sense.

Do you know for sure that they will not?  There doesn't seem to be a consensus on it at all.  I think that one of the guys that frequents the Class III dealer in my town submitted a form 4 for a machinegun on a trust recently.  I'll check with them next time I am in and see if it has been approved or denied yet and if he really did submit it on a trust.

I have not known of a single person who has done it.  

Has the ATF issued guidance on this issue for NC?  When I talked to them at SHOT in Jan they said there will be no changes to policy until they get a letter from the NCAG interpreting the new law.



 

I have no idea. Im sure they are dragging their feet



 

Does Cumberland or Harnett County CLEO do NFA? While currently downrange my wife and 2 daughters are living in Missouri...We were living on Bragg( never again), so now we are going to move off-post and I'm wanting a can.

Awaiting PM


Thanks,
Grant

There is a thread over in the SBR section where someone in NC submitted a form 1 to make an SBR with "all lawful purpose" as the reason on 4i and it was returned for the addition of the NC specific language "for scientific and experimental purposes under NC general statute 14-288.8".  I submitted two form 1s in January of this year with "All lawful purpose" in 4i to see if they got approved like that, so I'm expecting a similar fix it letter (hopefully soon).  It would seem that no changes have been made in relation to NC law as of yet at the NFA Branch.

I agree.  Unless the NC AG is prompted, I'm sure there won't be any reinterptations of the new law.





 

Can I please get a PM on whether Harnett County will sign off on NFA too? Thanks

I got the fix it letter on the 9mm SBR Monday of last week.  I did, and got the stamp in the mail Saturday of last week, along with a fix it letter for the 5.56mm SBR.  Hopefully the trend will continue and I will get the 5.56 stamp this Saturday, as I mailed back the corrected form 1s today.

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