I've done quite a bit of reading on the topic of NFA weapons in NC, but the bulk of the info I've come across seems to be mostly concerned with the ownership of automatic weapons.  The literature I've found does not adequately address (in my mind, at least) any issues that might surround ownership of SBR's and suppressors.  Can someone shed some more light on this for me?

Getting the CLEO's signature for the ATF required forms will most likely not be a problem, but is there anything else that NC requires for non-select fire NFA items?  

Assuming that the process is as painless as I hope it is, who in NC sells suppressors?  I've been in quite a few fun stores around the state and I cannot recall ever seeing any.  hanks

Where in NC do you live? I know in Rowan county George Wilhelm would have to sign off on and NFA form, He is VERY pro gun from what everyone says so I dont think even getting a Machine Gun would be hard with him.

If the CLEO signature won't be a problem, you have it made.  Just need to pony up the cash for the can and the $200 for the ATF.  I don't know if there are any counties with extra restrictions. Any Raleigh/Durham guys around?

I had my can transferred through Phil Flack (PF Customs in Asheville).  He usually keeps a few in stock.

I haven't really been paying attention to any other dealer in the state.  

CHRIS

I live in Union County.  The sheriff here basically read to me the statute for Machine guns and said it applies to all NFA's.  Basically shot me down.  

Quoted: I live in Union County.  The sheriff here basically read to me the statute for Machine guns and said it applies to all NFA's.  Basically shot me down.

- I'm moving to Union county next week and plan on trying to run some paperwork  by the Sheriff (hopefully by June).  What were you applying for and what reasoning did you use?

Maybe try these guys...Advance, NC

www.koptersupply.com/

Unfortunately, there's no way around the CLEO signoff.  No corporate route, legal trust, etc.  While I can't find anything in the statute that says that this is so for non-MG NFA stuff, apparently that's the way the then AG Mike Easley interpreted the statute and it's what we're stuck with.  I'm told he made a campaign issue of it.  

I have done a lot of research on the subject recently, and I know of a few counties where it can be done around me.  It's tough unless you know someone.  I can recommend a couple of places within a couple hours of the triangle.

ncpatrolar,
I did not get far enough to give an explination.  I called and spoke to Sheriff Cathey and asked him if it would be alright if I set up a time to come speak with him about a permit for a sbr.  He told me it would be fine but I should speak to captain (can't remember), to see if I met any of the NC guidelines.  Well the captain read to me the weapons of mass distruction statute and basically it was as simple as I don't match any of it...  So I got screwed.  I think it is who you know and what you can do for someone.  I use a smith here in Union county who told me that he knows of several doctors and other professionals of the caliber that have form 3 weapons.  So good luck and let me know if you got it or not.  Sucks for me I guess

Quoted: ncpatrolar, I did not get far enough to give an explination.  I called and spoke to Sheriff Cathey and asked him if it would be alright if I set up a time to come speak with him about a permit for a sbr.  He told me it would be fine but I should speak to captain (can't remember), to see if I met any of the NC guidelines.  Well the captain read to me the weapons of mass distruction statute and basically it was as simple as I don't match any of it...  So I got screwed.  I think it is who you know and what you can do for someone.  I use a smith here in Union county who told me that he knows of several doctors and other professionals of the caliber that have form 3 weapons.  So good luck and let me know if you got it or not.  Sucks for me I guess

Hmmmm...  In a way that sounds promising to me, but I'm a little over a year from being "Dr." Wolffie.  So would getting a C&R license change there minds?  My understanding is that FFL holders (irrespective of the type) qualify under the list.  The C&R license is 30 bucks for three years.  And, it'll probably pay for itself with the discounts from Brownells, and Midway.  You just have to watch out for all of the "C&R" eligible toys in the shotgun news, and other such temptations.  

I'll see how things go with me.  Doctors getting select-fire stuff are probably using the business clause

Somebody help me with this. I've owned an s-corp for 20 years. Does this mean I can purchase supressors and subguns on the corporation and bypass the CEO. I don't think the CEO of Forsyth will sign the stuff. Anybody know differently?

Quoted: Somebody help me with this. I've owned an s-corp for 20 years. Does this mean I can purchase supressors and subguns on the corporation and bypass the CEO. I don't think the CEO of Forsyth will sign the stuff. Anybody know differently?

I hate to put it this way, but your SOL in Forsyth co.

Edit-we aren't all sailors

NC isn't a real NFA friendly state.

The NFA laws needed overhauling

Quoted: Somebody help me with this. I've owned an s-corp for 20 years. Does this mean I can purchase supressors and subguns on the corporation and bypass the CEO. I don't think the CEO of Forsyth will sign the stuff. Anybody know differently?

Under current interpretation of the law, no you cannot avoid a CLEO signature in NC.  

OK, I am thoroughly confused.

Bardwell's stuff (it seems everyone around the internet quotes him as the expert) says that in NC, one MUST be an FFL to get a suppressor, or fall into one of the other "exceptions" (banks, law enforement, military, etc.).

I would like to hear from someone on this board who lives in NC, does not have an FFL, and owns a suppressor to tell us that this is incorrect, and that it is possible to get a suppressor in NC.

I train with a guy who is a machinst for a very large company in central NC that owns numerous select-fire weapons, SBRs, and suppressors and isnt a FFL.  So yes, it is indeed possible to get one here.  You simply have to be able to articulate things so you meet the requiremnts outlined in the state statutes.

I guess that is where I am confused. The way I read the statutes, you have to be an FFL. Do you have any links to sites that quote and explain the statutes?

Quoted: I guess that is where I am confused. The way I read the statutes, you have to be an FFL. Do you have any links to sites that quote and explain the statutes?

here is the particular statute in question:


B. WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION
North Carolina General Statute § 14-288.8 provides that it is unlawful for any person
to manufacture, assemble, possess, store, transport, sell, offer to sell, purchase, offer to
purchase, deliver, give to another, or acquire any weapon of mass death and destruction.
A weapon of mass death and destruction includes:
(1) bombs of all sorts;
(2) grenades;
(3) rockets having a propellant charge of more than 4 ounces;
(4) a missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than
one-quarter ounce;
(5) mine;
(6) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell of
a type particularly suitable for sporting purposes) which will
expel a projectile using an explosive or other propellant and
which has a barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in
diameter;
(7) any firearm capable of fully automatic fire;
(8) any shotgun with a barrel length less than eighteen inches or an
overall length of less than twenty-six inches;
(9) a rifle with a barrel length of less than sixteen inches or an
overall length of less than twenty-six inches;
(10) any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not such
firearm is included within this definition;
(11) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in
converting a device into any weapon described above and from
which a weapon of mass death and destruction may readily be
assembled.
Thus, a device which could convert a semi-automatic firearm into one capable of fully
automatic fire, would be in violation of this statute, whether or not one actually possesses
23
such a weapon. The possession of the device itself is a crime. If any person possesses a
weapon of mass death and destruction in violation of this statute, he would be guilty of a
Class I Felony.
The only persons capable of owning or possessing a weapon of mass death and
destruction, as defined above, are the following:
(1) Persons exempted from the provisions of carrying a concealed
weapon in North Carolina with respect to any activity lawfully
engaged in while carrying out their duties;
(2) Importers, manufacturers, dealers, and collectors of firearms,
ammunition, or destructive devices validly licensed under the
laws of the United States or the
State of North Carolina, while lawfully engaged in activities authorized under
their licenses; - This is the FFL holders
(3) Persons under contract with the United States, the State of
North Carolina, or any agency of either government, with
respect to any activities lawfully engaged in under their
contracts; or
(4) Inventors, designers, ordinance consultants and researchers,
chemists, physicists, and other persons lawfully engaged in
pursuits designed to enlarge the knowledge of or to facilitate the
creation, development, or manufacture of weapons of mass
death and destruction intended for use in a manner consistent
with the laws of the United States and the State of North
Carolina. - these people are non-FFL holders

USP,

 I was looking into an SBR & suppressor about a
year ago. I talked a lot to a guy named Tony K in  the
C3 section, as well as some others, but none from
NC. It is my understanding that I can bypass the CLEO
signoff with my Sub Chapter S Corp. Corp's aren't individuals
so they can't be fingerprinted & don't require a signoff. The
item or items are owned by the corp & can be used by any board
member, etc, listed in the corp documents. If the corp is
ever closed, the items must liquidated. If the wind is right at
that time (cooperative CLEO), a corp member could apply
for individual ownership, ie CLEO signoff.

I have heard of people starting corps, etc for the sole purpose
of C3 ownership, but I think it gets sticky with companies that
have little or no profit, or especially all losses. This is frowned
upon by the ATF & the IRS.

I would contact my local C3 dealer for input, as well.

I am not a lawyer so do not take this a legal advice.
This is the synopsis I arrived at, and I hope it hasn't changed.
I would still like to have an AR 9mm SBR some time.

I can give the number for a local C3 dealer if you want. I have
known this guy for years, & I will buy my stuff from him, if
I ever take the plunge. IM me for his info.


Good Luck Johnny C!

Quoted: Quoted: I guess that is where I am confused. The way I read the statutes, you have to be an FFL. Do you have any links to sites that quote and explain the statutes? here is the particular statute in question: (2) Importers, manufacturers, dealers, and collectors of firearms, ammunition, or destructive devices validly licensed under the laws of the United States or the State of North Carolina, while lawfully engaged in activities authorized under their licenses; - This is the FFL holders (4) Inventors, designers, ordinance consultants and researchers, chemists, physicists, and other persons lawfully engaged in pursuits designed to enlarge the knowledge of or to facilitate the creation, development, or manufacture of weapons of mass death and destruction intended for use in a manner consistent with the laws of the United States and the State of North Carolina. - these people are non-FFL holders

Right. So basically, since I don't have an FFL, and I am not one of the people in (4), I can't get a suppressor in NC.

Is that the way you read it?

Quoted: OK, I am thoroughly confused. I would like to hear from someone on this board who lives in NC, does not have an FFL, and owns a suppressor to tell us that this is incorrect, and that it is possible to get a suppressor in NC.

I have a friend who has several supressors ( over 5 that I can remember ) And he does not have an FFL and lives in Davison County.

I'm not a FFL and have a suppressor.  You just have to "convince" the Sheriff that you qualify.

My dealer put "for scientific and research purposes" for my reason to own.   I guess that puts me into the #4 category listed above.


CHRIS

Quoted: USP,  I was looking into an SBR & suppressor about a year ago. I talked a lot to a guy named Tony K in  the C3 section, as well as some others, but none from NC. It is my understanding that I can bypass the CLEO signoff with my Sub Chapter S Corp. Corp's aren't individuals so they can't be fingerprinted & don't require a signoff. The item or items are owned by the corp & can be used by any board member, etc, listed in the corp documents. If the corp is ever closed, the items must liquidated. If the wind is right at that time (cooperative CLEO), a corp member could apply for individual ownership, ie CLEO signoff. I have heard of people starting corps, etc for the sole purpose of C3 ownership, but I think it gets sticky with companies that have little or no profit, or especially all losses. This is frowned upon by the ATF & the IRS. I would contact my local C3 dealer for input, as well. I am not a lawyer so do not take this a legal advice. This is the synopsis I arrived at, and I hope it hasn't changed. I would still like to have an AR 9mm SBR some time. I can give the number for a local C3 dealer if you want. I have known this guy for years, & I will buy my stuff from him, if I ever take the plunge. IM me for his info. Good Luck Johnny C!

Some others have posted on here that the corp route isnt possible in NC

From what i understand a C&R is the easiest route to go in NC. A buddy of mine did it.

And a big +1 for Phil Flack..... great dealer to work with.

There appears to be a 'collector' exemption

Quoted: There appears to be a 'collector' exemption

Yup, the C&R covers "and collectors of firearms,
ammunition, or destructive devices validly licensed under the
laws of the United States or the"

Quoted: Quoted: USP,  I was looking into an SBR & suppressor about a year ago. I talked a lot to a guy named Tony K in  the C3 section, as well as some others, but none from NC. It is my understanding that I can bypass the CLEO signoff with my Sub Chapter S Corp. Corp's aren't individuals so they can't be fingerprinted & don't require a signoff. The item or items are owned by the corp & can be used by any board member, etc, listed in the corp documents. If the corp is ever closed, the items must liquidated. If the wind is right at that time (cooperative CLEO), a corp member could apply for individual ownership, ie CLEO signoff. I have heard of people starting corps, etc for the sole purpose of C3 ownership, but I think it gets sticky with companies that have little or no profit, or especially all losses. This is frowned upon by the ATF & the IRS. I would contact my local C3 dealer for input, as well. I am not a lawyer so do not take this a legal advice. This is the synopsis I arrived at, and I hope it hasn't changed. I would still like to have an AR 9mm SBR some time. I can give the number for a local C3 dealer if you want. I have known this guy for years, & I will buy my stuff from him, if I ever take the plunge. IM me for his info. Good Luck Johnny C! Some others have posted on here that the corp route isnt possible in NC

Apparently there is another section pertaining to corp ownership that hasn't
be cut & pasted here. I'm sure that a corp route is possible in NC.  
Edited to add as my memory is getting as scarce as my hair.
I think the corporate route is not governed by state statutes. Thats why
you don't have to have the CLEO signoff & you just mail your check
& app to the ATF with the corp being the listed as the (I can't think of
this word, so I'll make one up) apply-ee.

As I recall (although vaguely) Chris has it correct for a CLEO signoff. You
have to quailfy under one of the headings, i.e. "for scientific and research
purposes" is a common & accepted heading by the ATF.

Since Garand_Shooter mentioned his name, Phil Flack is the guy I would
contact. He's in Asheville.
Read & ask some questions in the C3 section under AR-15.

Johnny C!

Quoted: Where in NC do you live? I know in Rowan county George Wilhelm would have to sign off on and NFA form, He is VERY pro gun from what everyone says so I dont think even getting a Machine Gun would be hard with him.

You'll have no problem in Rowan Co. if you are legit...  that goes for suppressors, SBRs, full auto.  Just have your "act" together and nothing will go wrong in Rowan County.

Quoted: I train with a guy who is a machinst for a very large company in central NC that owns numerous select-fire weapons, SBRs, and suppressors and isnt a FFL.  So yes, it is indeed possible to get one here.  You simply have to be able to articulate things so you meet the requiremnts outlined in the state statutes.

READ MY HUNT AND PECK....  YOU MUST KNOW THE MAGIC PHRASE TO GET IT DONE.  ONCE YOU USE IT, THERE'S NO MORE QUESTIONS.

Quoted: I guess that is where I am confused. The way I read the statutes, you have to be an FFL. Do you have any links to sites that quote and explain the statutes?

FWIW - - - a Class III FFL must buy the suppressor, you pay him, HE HOLDS IT untill your paperwork clears.  A non FFL/ non FFL Class III cannot order a suppressor.

I'm only chiming in here because I just went down this road with (2) lowers for SBR registration.  I ain't no lawyer and I'm sure not beating my chest.  That paperwork nearly drove me nuts.  The money and the CLEO interview were the easy parts............

Quoted: Quoted: I train with a guy who is a machinst for a very large company in central NC that owns numerous select-fire weapons, SBRs, and suppressors and isnt a FFL.  So yes, it is indeed possible to get one here.  You simply have to be able to articulate things so you meet the requiremnts outlined in the state statutes. READ MY HUNT AND PECK....  YOU MUST KNOW THE MAGIC PHRASE TO GET IT DONE.  ONCE YOU USE IT, THERE'S NO MORE QUESTIONS.

Is the phrase "Do I make out this contribution check to the Sheriff or the treasurer of his campaign?"

Ummmmmmm, maybe in some parts.............It's already been posted earlier in this thread by another board member.  

The worst part about the NCGS that regulates SBRs and the like is the fact that the law is written to be "grey" and interpritted by anyone a number of ways.  What it sounds like you guys are running into is that you are forced to deal with CLEOs that don't want SBRs and such in their counties.  Unfortunately, if the CLEO doesn't want them there, there won't be any.  I am pretty much positive there is not a way around the condition that your local CLEO must sign you off.  Crazy thing about the whole sign off deal is that the check(s) the CLEOs run is damn near the EXACT background checks they run for CCH permits.

FWIW, good luck to all of you fighting the good fight.

If you're in Yadkin County yer screwed, Sheriff won't sign off period, not even for his own officers.

I went in prepared with the State laws, an written explanition of why I wished to purchase an NFA weapon with an attached copy of my C&R FFL  as well. He basically said that he'd have to contact the attorney General of Nc and ask his opinion.  He said AG said nope when I went for a retun interveiw, I got a little Miffed at this. Stating that in Yadkin County he was the final authority and if he inked I was good to go. regardless of what the AG said and I also pointed out that there are several sheriff's that will sigh in NC.

I was attemping to buy a Japanese type 99 LMG in 7.7 Jap, I'd have to handload for the damn thing, its not like I was gonna be able to really do any serious shooting with it, something I pointed out to him at the time, NO USE!!!!!!!

I've repeatedly asked one of his officers to Run against him in the next election and I'd go outta my way to get as many votes as possible for them and help his campaign in anyway possible.

The Current sheriff is Progun but not ProNFA.

I voted for him once, never again!!!!!!!!!

Jason

Quoted: If you're in Yadkin County yer screwed, Sheriff won't sign off period, not even for his own officers. I went in prepared with the State laws, an written explanition of why I wished to purchase an NFA weapon with an attached copy of my C&R FFL  as well. He basically said that he'd have to contact the attorney General of Nc and ask his opinion.  He said AG said nope when I went for a retun interveiw, I got a little Miffed at this. Stating that in Yadkin County he was the final authority and if he inked I was good to go. regardless of what the AG said and I also pointed out that there are several sheriff's that will sigh in NC. I was attemping to buy a Japanese type 99 LMG in 7.7 Jap, I'd have to handload for the damn thing, its not like I was gonna be able to really do any serious shooting with it, something I pointed out to him at the time, NO USE!!!!!!! I've repeatedly asked one of his officers to Run against him in the next election and I'd go outta my way to get as many votes as possible for them and help his campaign in anyway possible. The Current sheriff is Progun but not ProNFA. I voted for him once, never again!!!!!!!!! Jason

Are you really sure  the AG said that??

Quoted: Quoted: There appears to be a 'collector' exemption Yup, the C&R covers "and collectors of firearms, ammunition, or destructive devices validly licensed under the laws of the United States or the"

Gotcha.

Nope, I'm not positive thats what he said as I wasn't there for the conversation, but thats what the Sheriff claimed he said. I didn't push it any further.

One thing I forgot about the whole conversation with sheriff was that he said if I wanted to have MG's that I should get a Class 3 rated dealers license, he said that was OK. he obviously doesn't have a clue as to what the rules/laws are. even as a Class 3 dealer you have to get a sheriffs sign off on transferrable NFA weapons.

Jason

If you can't educate him then vote him out

Quoted: Quoted: Somebody help me with this. I've owned an s-corp for 20 years. Does this mean I can purchase supressors and subguns on the corporation and bypass the CEO. I don't think the CEO of Forsyth will sign the stuff. Anybody know differently? I hate to put it this way, but your SOL in Forsyth co. Edit-we aren't all sailors

He signed for me.....

Quoted: If you can't educate him then vote him out

Thats the PlanJason

Quoted: Quoted: Stating that in Yadkin County he was the final authority and if he inked I was good to go. regardless of what the AG said and I also pointed out that there are several sheriff's that will sigh in NC. Are you really sure  the AG said that??

That's how NFA stuff goes per county........  In NC, the CLEO (your county Sheriff) is the person that makes or breaks you.  It ain't anyboby in Raleigh (unless you live in Wake County) that is keeping you from being signed off on.  If the Sheriff reads the NCGS and "sees" that the statute says no SBRs, suppressors or MGs, then that's the final word.  Now, if your Sheriff reads the exact same NCGS and "sees" the NCGS says "no NFA stuff EXCEPT for ........" and you fit that catagory, you are gold.

As with any law/statute, it's all in how the individual reading the law/statute reads and digests what is written.  It's either sink or swim and it's all in how your CLEO feels about NFA stuff.

From the horror stories you guys are givin', I am damn proud to say MY CLEO is awesome to work with.  Not trying to rub it in, but there's room for y'all in Rowan County!  

Quoted: He signed for me.....

I want to know the details.

Anyone have contact info for Phil Flack?  The last google search I did spit up a mindspring email addy that looks dead.

From Subguns.com:

P. F. Custom Guns - Phil Flack, Owner, Gunsmith

Specialties: Class 2 - HK LE Sales and armorer, custom gunsmithing
18 Sunset Drive
Asheville, NC 28806
Phone: (828) 252-9487
FAX: (828) 254-7108

E-mail: [email protected]

Homepage: N/A

Thanks!

Quoted: From Subguns.com: P. F. Custom Guns - Phil Flack, Owner, Gunsmith Specialties: Class 2 - HK LE Sales and armorer, custom gunsmithing 18 Sunset Drive Asheville, NC 28806 Phone: (828) 252-9487 FAX: (828) 254-7108 E-mail: [email protected] Homepage: N/A

Phil is a great guy and will treat you right.

I have found a very inexpensive, simple, yet effective means to get the NFA items at will.

NFA goodies are Taboo, and people are such a pain in the ass when inquireing of such.
SO...... Here is what me, my buddy and his wife are doing.
One, we are applying for a Class 1 FFL. Got the forms yesterday.
TWO We will be setting up an S Corp next week, BEFORE we send in the FFL forms.
Three: When FFL C1 comes in we wil be applying for the SOT ( ClassIII) FFL.

This is simple to do and seems to be just a lot of paperwork.
BUT here is the payoff.
We both drive trucks, so we can buy anything anywhere, in any state --SWEET
we can do transfers for fellow ARFCOMers -- SWEET
we can buy suppressors at will SWEET
AND we can buy FA or Select fire weapons CHEAP!! (we'll dealer samples are WAY cheaper than pre-ban)

SO for:
$125 Corp Fees
$200 for 3 years of FFL
$ 500 for the SOT per year.

So look at this example of why we are doing this.
a pre-ban M16 is 13-15,000 bux  this is a LOT of cash at one time, so we'll pretend you finance it. At a payment of 250 a month for 5 years ( about like a car) thats a ALOT of cash.

Now, figure this.
$90 a year for the FFL
$500 a year for the SOT
Split this 2 ways ( His house and ME)
$290 a year and we can BUILD a select fire AR for less than a grand!
That's one hell of a savings!! AND it is all legit, legal and simple.
Why more people dont do this is beyond me.
Why we waited YEARS to figure this is out is
No CLEO involved and NO BS.
We just have to keep everything in line (ie paperwork and records). His wife is a stay home MOM and is ready to do all the bookeeping and filing! SWEET!

Sometime next year, we will be one of the FEW ClassIII dealers EAST of I-95 and will NOT have outrageous transfer fees. Standar $15 for non NFA stuff
NFA stuff we have NOT looked into pricing fees. Suggestions are welcome BTW.

keep in mind for dealer samples you MUST have a request inw riting from a law enforcement agency for you to provide each type of firearms for them to try out.... you can't just built dealer samples at will.

My friend is selling his S&W76 for a darn good price I wish that I had The money to buy it.

Quoted: keep in mind for dealer samples you MUST have a request inw riting from a law enforcement agency for you to provide each type of firearms for them to try out.... you can't just built dealer samples at will.

I must have misread something. Are you an SOT? if so can you PM me?