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Posted: 6/3/2022 2:28:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: motoguy]
Update 04-2024: This thread changed from success using the VT-process, to getting title via court judgement. I successfully used the VT process on several motorcycles but VT closed up that option summer of 2023. I then decided to try a bonded title. MO has several requirements for bonded title, such as the vehicle being older than 7 years, value less than $3000, the "brand" stays on the title for 3 years, highway patrol inspections required, must have an existing title, etc.
Just...more hoops. So I transitioned to title by court judgement. It's a bit of the Nuclear Option. Judge declares "it's his" and orders the DOR to issue a title to me. It's also much more convenient than the other options...no Highway Patrol inspections, no VIN verification from local LEO, etc. Failure to do so is refusing to follow a Judge's order. The update is on page 2, post #8. I now have no fear of buying non-titled vehicles in MO (as long as the VIN checks as clear and non-stolen). Edited 08-2023 : Started by looking at a bike with no title, MSO only. Ended up buying a couple of bikes bill of sale only, no titles. Went through the VT registrat process.Now have valid MO title. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Bought-with-a-bill-of-sale-only-obtained-valid-title-via-Vermont-process-/5-2574706/ |
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Posted: 6/3/2022 2:48:02 PM EDT
[#1]
I dread anything dmv related. I wish you luck.
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Posted: 6/3/2022 3:08:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Maybe you could find something on the DOR site, though I couldn't.
https://dor.mo.gov/motor-vehicle/titling-registration/ |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 7:40:45 AM EDT
[#3]
Was it originally a street vehicle or off road only?
Going back to the early 10s MO did not plate dirt bikes. Guys would register them in South Dakota or Wyoming or somewhere out there and ride on out of state plates. Probably not exactly legal but I never knew anyone to have problems. |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 9:24:06 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GUNGUY148: Was it originally a street vehicle or off road only? The Suzuki DRZ is a street legal dual purpose motorcycle as it comes from the factory. @motoguy your best bet is to call the main office in Jefferson City for the correct way to handle this. I would never rely on what local contract offices tell you. Most license offices are contracted owned. I have been burned by listening to the local office instead of calling Jefferson City. |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 11:32:16 AM EDT
[#5]
This was one of the non street legal versions (E model). So it was never titled.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2022 4:08:55 PM EDT
[#6]
You can do the mail on Vermont title loophole. https://m.roadkillcustoms.com/how-to-legally-title-any-classic-car-truck-or-motorcycle-using-the-vermont-loophole/
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2022 4:27:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Triumphman]
[#7]
I'd call or if need be make an appointment with someone in the Jefferson City DMV to see if you have all the required bill of sales to even see if you have what you need, to get a title for this model of bike. Take pictures of the motorcycle's frame/motor serial #s and date of manufacture tag. Get anything you can in writing to rule out any local DMV doubts when you try and get a title in your name. Maybe the person you speak with at Jeff City can help you get it titled for you.
You might want to first, before going to any DMV, go to a sheriff's/city or state police office and run the bike's serial # through their records and get the proper/signed paperwork to know it's not stolen, to show any dmv clerk. |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 9:12:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Triumphman: I'd call or if need be make an appointment with someone in the Jefferson City DMV to see if you have all the required bill of sales to even see if you have what you need, to get a title for this model of bike. Take pictures of the motorcycle's frame/motor serial #s and date of manufacture tag. Get anything you can in writing to rule out any local DMV doubts when you try and get a title in your name. Maybe the person you speak with at Jeff City can help you get it titled for you. You might want to first, before going to any DMV, go to a sheriff's/city or state police office and run the bike's serial # through their records and get the proper/signed paperwork to know it's not stolen, to show any dmv clerk. All sound advice. I will add one more thing. They might want you to take it to the Highway Patrol Headquarters in Jefferson City to get it inspected too. I know with any homemade street legal vehicles and salvage vehicles that have been repaired all must be inspected by the HP in Jefferson City. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2022 9:22:42 PM EDT
[#9]
Back around 08 I bought a used Honda ATV over on the KS side that came from Colorado. The Guy didn't have the title. I took the hand written bill of sale to the Harrisonville Mo DMV. They sent it off to Jeff city and they issued me a Mo title for it. I was like
 I could have stolen the thing and forged the whole bill of sale.Like others have said, call Jeff city. People lose titles all the time. There must be options. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 9:35:29 AM EDT
[#10]
From what I found even dirt bikes have to be registered and titled in Missouri. Things can get complicated since the state is going to want its property taxes that wasn't paid all those years.
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Posted: 6/5/2022 10:24:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GUNGUY148]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: From what I found even dirt bikes have to be registered and titled in Missouri. Things can get complicated since the state is going to want its property taxes that wasn't paid all those years. I have never registered a dirt bike, titled yes but not registered. I don't recall that even being an option, I haven't bought a dirt bike in over 5 years though. ETA: I did register one with a county so I could ride at Sutton bluff. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 10:25:41 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GUNGUY148: I have never registered a dirt bike, titled yes but not registered. I don't recall that even being an option, I haven't bought a dirt bike in over 5 years though. It WAS registered when you titled it. Both are done at the same time. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2022 4:16:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GUNGUY148: I have never registered a dirt bike, titled yes but not registered. I don't recall that even being an option, I haven't bought a dirt bike in over 5 years though. ETA: I did register one with a county so I could ride at Sutton bluff. Titled and registered are same when going through the process. Getting and putting on plates for road usage is different and adds to the titling and registering. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 4:32:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: It WAS registered when you titled it. Both are done at the same time. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: Originally Posted By GUNGUY148: I have never registered a dirt bike, titled yes but not registered. I don't recall that even being an option, I haven't bought a dirt bike in over 5 years though. It WAS registered when you titled it. Both are done at the same time. I have many vehicles that are titled in my name but not registered. Registration gets license plates, current stickers, a white piece of paper that verifies everything, and more money spent. Back in the day ATVs had to be registered to ride at st Joe, you had to have a title to get the registration. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 7:34:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GUNGUY148: I have many vehicles that are titled in my name but not registered. Registration gets license plates, current stickers, a white piece of paper that verifies everything, and more money spent. Back in the day ATVs had to be registered to ride at st Joe, you had to have a title to get the registration. I will correct you on this. With ATV's UTV's (50" wide and under) and other off road vehicles that have to be titled and registered also have to have a registration sticker placed on the vehicles and registration paperwork kept with the vehicle. I know that I have to renew my registration (sticker) every three years on my Honda Pioneer 500 since it is 50" wide or less. The same goes for all ATV's too. And all dealers that sell off road vehicles have been required to send a copy of the title registration and MSO in to the Dept. of Revenue when they are sold since around 2010. If dealers do not do this then they are breaking the law. |
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Posted: 6/19/2022 1:47:48 PM EDT
[#16]
Going to give it a shot via this method:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Vermont-title-process-for-bill-of-sale-only-motorcycle-/5-2561015/ |
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Posted: 6/20/2022 7:53:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Good luck on this process! I bought a truck with no title a few years ago and had to file papers with the state through the court system to get it cleared up.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/20/2022 3:13:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Originally Posted By motoguy: I'm looking at buying an early 2000's Suzuki DRZ. I want to dual sport it. The bike was never titled and has changed hands with manufacturer's certificate of origin and bills of sale only. I've got it in my head (from my past years of bike buying/selling) that I'll need to pay tax on original sales price on the bike in order to title it. That's ok, it can be negotiated into the purchase price. What I'm not familiar with is the process or steps necessary to actually title it. Can I just show up at the DMV with this 20 year old certificate of origin, a handful of bills of sale, and say "how much do I write this check for?" I doubt it's that easy. Any chance anyone here is familiar with the process? I just called MO DOR for titling questions, and was told I had a 180 minute wait with 200 people in line ahead of me. So...yeah. Not doing that right now! I called the Eldon DMV office. I was told my 2 official options are: 1) track down original purchaser and have them title it. Then get title from them. 2) file with the court and see if I can be awarded ownership Thought I'd ask here and see if I could get any info in the meantime. I've got an ATV with a BOS and no title. I figured out a long time again that it's just about impossible to get a title for it......for the exact reasons you stated. Trying to track down the previous owner, and getting them to pay sales tax on it (that's why they don't have a title for it in the first place) is impossible....nobody is going to say "sure, no problem maybe....20 years after the fact let me pay taxes on a bike I don't even own any more. And like you said...trying to go through the courts is way more money and time than it's worth. Good luck......but I think you are going to find the same thing I did, it's just not worth the time and money. |
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Posted: 6/21/2022 11:33:25 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By imq707s: I've got an ATV with a BOS and no title. I figured out a long time again that it's just about impossible to get a title for it......for the exact reasons you stated. Trying to track down the previous owner, and getting them to pay sales tax on it (that's why they don't have a title for it in the first place) is impossible....nobody is going to say "sure, no problem maybe....20 years after the fact let me pay taxes on a bike I don't even own any more. And like you said...trying to go through the courts is way more money and time than it's worth. Good luck......but I think you are going to find the same thing I did, it's just not worth the time and money. So very true. The state IS going to want the sales tax and ALL past owed property taxes paid first. For those wondering about ATVs and UTVs 50" wide and under, here is my experience. I purchased a Honda Pioneer 500 in 2016 and the dealer gave me the MSO along with a Missouri title application. When I went to my local DMV office, they misunderstood the state statutes and told me that ALL UTVs do not need registered/titled. 6 months later I got a nasty gram from the state wanting to know why I did not register/title my Pioneer 500. Once I called Jeff City and explained the situation, all late fees/penalties were waved for me. Jeff City explained that any UTV listed as 50" wide or under by the manufacturers MUST be registered/titled just like ALL ATVs must be registered/titled. And from what I could find it is the same way with all dirt bikes too. The MO Dept. of Revenue has required all off road vehicle dealers to submit a copy of the MSO and Title Application for every off-road vehicle sold since around 2010. The state started this requirement to catch everyone that was buying off-road vehicles and never registering/titling them. The state wants its tax money. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/21/2022 1:51:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: So very true. The state IS going to want the sales tax and ALL past owed property taxes paid first. For those wondering about ATVs and UTVs 50" wide and under, here is my experience. I purchased a Honda Pioneer 500 in 2016 and the dealer gave me the MSO along with a Missouri title application. When I went to my local DMV office, they misunderstood the state statutes and told me that ALL UTVs do not need registered/titled. 6 months later I got a nasty gram from the state wanting to know why I did not register/title my Pioneer 500. Once I called Jeff City and explained the situation, all late fees/penalties were waved for me. Jeff City explained that any UTV listed as 50" wide or under by the manufacturers MUST be registered/titled just like ALL ATVs must be registered/titled. And from what I could find it is the same way with all dirt bikes too. The MO Dept. of Revenue has required all off road vehicle dealers to submit a copy of the MSO and Title Application for every off-road vehicle sold since around 2010. The state started this requirement to catch everyone that was buying off-road vehicles and never registering/titling them. The state wants its tax money. Yep...I didn't even think about the personal property tax. So not only would OP need to find the original purchaser from 20 years ago, he's going to have to either pay the original sales tax or convince the original purchases to....and then on top of that, someone is going to also have to pay 20 years worth of personal property tax on it. Sounds like a lot of money just to get a title for a 20year old dirt bike. Those DR-Z400's are pretty common....if it was me and I had to find one with a title, I would just look around...there are plenty out there. |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 8:00:25 AM EDT
[#21]
Hard to say on the property tax, that would have been up to the previous owner to claim that on their assessment.
I went through the same thing when I bought my Can Am Maverick. I bought it over in Kansas and I was kind of puzzled when the dealership filled out a Mo title application. That must have tipped the state off that I'd bought an ATV/UTV and got the letter a few months later telling me to title it. (Pay sales tax) An email with the MSO showing it was wider than 50" or whatever cleared it up. |
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Posted: 6/23/2022 6:25:47 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By defender: Hard to say on the property tax, that would have been up to the previous owner to claim that on their assessment. I went through the same thing when I bought my Can Am Maverick. I bought it over in Kansas and I was kind of puzzled when the dealership filled out a Mo title application. That must have tipped the state off that I'd bought an ATV/UTV and got the letter a few months later telling me to title it. (Pay sales tax) An email with the MSO showing it was wider than 50" or whatever cleared it up. Missouri did change the laws around 2010 requiring all dealers to submit a copy of the title application to the state. Someone mentioned all the years of back property taxes that WILL be owed. Now who will actually be responsible to pay is a good question. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/23/2022 7:02:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Why are you dead set on titling it in Missouri? Title it somewhere else and then you don't have to worry about all this crap.
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Posted: 6/24/2022 8:12:53 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delorean: Why are you dead set on titling it in Missouri? Title it somewhere else and then you don't have to worry about all this crap. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/24/2022 2:09:59 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By motoguy: Paperwork is all ready to send in for a VT registration. Then I'll transfer it to my name here in MO. But if you're going to run into issues with personal property taxes, then why are you transferring it to your name in MO? |
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Posted: 7/23/2022 6:36:55 PM EDT
[#26]
Got my VT tags and temp registration a week or so ago. Got my "regular" VT registration yesterday. I'll take this stuff to the MO license bureau on Monday or Tuesday and see what happens. Should end up with a MO Title in a week or two.
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Posted: 7/25/2022 9:05:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: motoguy]
[#27]
Got the ID/OD inspections and left the Lebanon DOR today. Paid title fees for both bikes. Should have my MO titles on them in the next week or two. After seeing my success a friend is going to use the same method to get a title on the '51 Chevy that's been rusting away on his property for years.
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Posted: 7/25/2022 9:11:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mustangracer: You can do the mail on Vermont title loophole. https://m.roadkillcustoms.com/how-to-legally-title-any-classic-car-truck-or-motorcycle-using-the-vermont-loophole/ Thank you. This ended up being the key to resolving my situation. |
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Posted: 8/4/2022 3:04:27 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 10/15/2022 9:01:51 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delorean: But if you're going to run into issues with personal property taxes, then why are you transferring it to your name in MO? Neither VT nor MO cared about taxes in any way other than the taxes on the sales amount listed on the bill of sale. FWIW. I've now successfully received a MO title on 3 bikes I've bought BOS only. |
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Posted: 1/15/2023 11:33:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Looks like the "info" thread linked above archived out. Friend of mine just got back the 2 he did on his bikes. I'm preparing another to mail this week.
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:00:02 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By motoguy: Looks like the "info" thread linked above archived out. I can't do anything in GD, but I just toggled this one not to archive. |
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Posted: 1/19/2023 12:39:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: motoguy]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 67Firebird: I can't do anything in GD, but I just toggled this one not to archive. ETA: Edited title to something that may be a bit more useful for the MO forum |
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Posted: 1/19/2023 1:14:24 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By imq707s: I've got an ATV with a BOS and no title. I figured out a long time again that it's just about impossible to get a title for it......for the exact reasons you stated. Trying to track down the previous owner, and getting them to pay sales tax on it (that's why they don't have a title for it in the first place) is impossible....nobody is going to say "sure, no problem maybe....20 years after the fact let me pay taxes on a bike I don't even own any more. And like you said...trying to go through the courts is way more money and time than it's worth. Good luck......but I think you are going to find the same thing I did, it's just not worth the time and money. I've now titled 3 bikes since I posted this thread. I put together packets for a friend, and he titled 2 of his. To the contrary, the VT process is pretty straightforward and easy. I mailed off my 4th packet yesterday. |
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Posted: 1/19/2023 1:21:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: So very true. The state IS going to want the sales tax and ALL past owed property taxes paid first. Nope. I'm just transferring ownership of my property from VT registration to MO title. Same as if I brought a KS, or TX, or CA, or TN title in for my vehicle, and said "I need to transfer this to MO". That's it. MO has asked about sales tax at the time I purchased the property, but hasn't charged me yet. So far they've accepted the tax paid to VT as "tax paid out of state" (that's what's on my MO DOR titling receipts). I'm not even sure if they can charge me tax for something that's already my property, just being transferred into state. They've been seeing the Registration Application I send to VT, with a date less than 30 days ago on it. I think that's what's tripping them up. The gal on my 2nd trip to the Lebanon office got flustered. She saw the documentation I sent to VT and that I purchased a bike from a MO resident. She got hung up on "you need a bill of sale and a title to do that!". I had to explain to her the doc I sent to VT was irrelevant to her...the VT registration papers were now the legal documents showing I had ownership of the vehicle. She finally just gave up and processed it. I think she adopted a "we'll let Jeff City sort it out" mindset. Which was fine with me. I got my title a week and a half later. :) |
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Posted: 1/19/2023 1:23:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By imq707s: Yep...I didn't even think about the personal property tax. So not only would OP need to find the original purchaser from 20 years ago, he's going to have to either pay the original sales tax or convince the original purchases to....and then on top of that, someone is going to also have to pay 20 years worth of personal property tax on it. Sounds like a lot of money just to get a title for a 20year old dirt bike. Those DR-Z400's are pretty common....if it was me and I had to find one with a title, I would just look around...there are plenty out there. Not at all how it worked out. One of the bikes I bought still had a MSO (Manufacturer's Statement of Origin). It had never been titled, anywhere. Never had a dime paid in taxes on it until I sent 6% of NADA book price to VT along with the $48 motorcycle registration fee. That bike is sitting in my garage right now, and the MO title for it is in the safe behind me. |
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Posted: 1/19/2023 1:27:39 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: Someone mentioned all the years of back property taxes that WILL be owed. Now who will actually be responsible to pay is a good question. Property tax doesn't follow the unit, it follows the registered owner for the applicable year. If you don't pay property taxes on your truck and then sell the truck to me, I don't have to pay your property tax on it...you still do. The state will hound you for the taxes you owed. I just have to pay the sales tax when I title it, and I'll have it list it on my assets list from the assessor's office for -next- year. |
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Posted: 1/19/2023 1:28:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delorean: But if you're going to run into issues with personal property taxes, then why are you transferring it to your name in MO? Only bummer is that all these bikes are registered to my Jan 1 2023, so I'll have to pay personal property tax on them for the TY 2023. |
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Posted: 2/18/2023 7:43:56 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By motoguy: I've now titled 3 bikes since I posted this thread. I put together packets for a friend, and he titled 2 of his. To the contrary, the VT process is pretty straightforward and easy. I mailed off my 4th packet yesterday. |
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Posted: 3/2/2023 1:49:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: motoguy]
[#40]
Got my MO title last week for the VT packet I mailed 01-18-2023. So about 5-6 weeks from start to finish.
In addition, VT valued the bike less than the KBB / NADA values (I sent printouts of the valuation sites). Not sure why, I honestly think they selected the wrong model. Regardless, I overpaid by $78 on the taxes. I was certain that was just lost money, but much to my surprise I got a refund check from VT for the overpayment. |
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Posted: 3/14/2023 3:51:25 PM EDT
[#41]
I got my two titles. Man I wish I still had that '72 340 Demon and that '75 Hang10 Dart.
The VT process works, and I now expect Missouri to call someday and be like "Yo, you gotta give those titles back!" |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 9:57:49 AM EDT
[#42]
I've been running around with the VT plates for a while now. I'm military, so out of state plates aren't uncommon for us. But the weird mismatch of VT plates registered to a MO address still wigs me out a bit. I'll get around to having an inspection done soon and get it registered here.
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Posted: 3/30/2023 6:38:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By packinheavy: I've been running around with the VT plates for a while now. I'm military, so out of state plates aren't uncommon for us. But the weird mismatch of VT plates registered to a MO address still wigs me out a bit. I'll get around to having an inspection done soon and get it registered here. |
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Posted: 4/20/2023 1:59:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Just left the DOR office with my MO plates.
Wasn't bad actually, but they had to run around a bit to verify I didn't need a VT title. They called Jefferson City after saying their reference book was 10 years old.  Why the hell are you still using it if it's that old? I'd get my ass kicked by the IG if my reference/guidance sources were that out of date. Manager was a bit of a Karen, but the actual guy I was dealing with was cool. |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 11:14:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: motoguy]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By packinheavy: Just left the DOR office with my MO plates. Wasn't bad actually, but they had to run around a bit to verify I didn't need a VT title. They called Jefferson City after saying their reference book was 10 years old. Why the hell are you still using it if it's that old? I'd get my ass kicked by the IG if my reference/guidance sources were that out of date. Manager was a bit of a Karen, but the actual guy I was dealing with was cool. I also only give them the VT registration paperwork (2nd packet). No temp registration (1st packet), plates, etc. You can read some of the clusters I got myself into by trying to be "too helpful" over here: https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Bought-with-a-bill-of-sale-only-obtained-valid-title-via-Vermont-process-/5-2574706/ It appears giving the minimal amount of information necessary to facilitate forward progress is the way to go. I'm sure they deal with 100 methheads a day who "know the law", and get tired of telling all these people they're wrong after listening to their long winded stories. However, I'm not wrong. ;) At least one clerk seemed to succumb to the "fuck this...I'll just submit it and let Jeff City deny it if necessary" mindset. I'm fine with that...still got my title, as I knew I would. :) |
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Posted: 4/21/2023 11:16:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: motoguy]
[#46]
double tap
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Posted: 5/7/2023 11:15:30 PM EDT
[#47]
I received a letter from DOR yesterday stating they can't process my title application until I provide a letter of origin for manufactur or a title.
This should be a fun phone call to them. |
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Posted: 5/7/2023 11:18:32 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By packinheavy: I received a letter from DOR yesterday stating they can't process my title application until I provide a letter of origin for manufactur or a title. This should be a fun phone call to them. I had to stress (in the office) the fact that this *isn't* a transfer from one person to another. This is me transferring my legal VT ownership to MO. |
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Posted: 5/7/2023 11:30:01 PM EDT
[#49]
The manager was a Karen type know it all that didn't belive the reference material they had. Granted, it was a Fee Office and not a state run office. I'll call tomorrow and see what can be done.
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Posted: 5/7/2023 11:37:43 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By packinheavy: The manager was a Karen type know it all that didn't belive the reference material they had. Granted, it was a Fee Office and not a state run office. I'll call tomorrow and see what can be done. |
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