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Posted: 5/29/2022 10:18:50 PM EDT
For some reason, I thought the fish cops don't allow it, but was wondering. Did a quick Google search but didn't see anything.
If no, any citation? |
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Posted: 5/30/2022 1:40:41 AM EDT
[#1]
I think what you are referring to is during certain hunting seasons, like Archery, on MDC property.
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Posted: 5/30/2022 1:47:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Someone will come by with an actual helpful answer, but while waiting here's the MO statute involved;
https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=571.030 |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/30/2022 9:51:08 AM EDT
[#3]
I don't see or know of any laws in Missouri prohibiting it, if you're lawful to own/handle a gun.
With Missouri having a "stand your ground" and "castle law" a vehicle is considered your residence, so with the law of your vehicle being your residence, one can carry a loaded gun in it, whether its hunting season or not. |
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Posted: 5/30/2022 11:29:44 AM EDT
[#4]
Yes you can.
I am guessing if you give the "fish cops" a reason to believe you are hunting without a permit, you might have a problem. As with most things in life, common sense and discretion avoids most problems. |
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Posted: 5/30/2022 11:48:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Bladeswitcher]
[#5]
My understanding is that only handguns can be carried loaded and concealed in a vehicle. Long guns have to be in plain sight if carried loaded.
But how would anyone know if you had a loaded rifle stowed behind the seat? |
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Posted: 5/30/2022 2:31:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Shootindave]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bladeswitcher: My understanding is that only handguns can be carried loaded and concealed in a vehicle. Long guns have to be in plain sight if carried loaded. But how would anyone know if you had a loaded rifle stowed behind the seat? It says concealable firearm. Which is defined as a barrel less than 16". The law does not use the terms handgun and rifle. Only firearm and concealable firearm. If you have a CCW permit you are exempt from the poor wording of the law. Eta: my statute book was printed in Aug 2017. So not sure if there are any changes |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/30/2022 10:51:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shootindave: It says concealable firearm. Which is defined as a barrel less than 16". The law does not use the terms handgun and rifle. Only firearm and concealable firearm. I know it says that, but was that an exeception under a law that said you couldn't? Because just because it says that you CAN carry a concealed firearms in a vehicle, doesn't necessarily mean that you cannot do the opposite with a non concealable one. The exception may be for something else in that paragraph, like age IIRC, the car carry goes way back to the Gov Blunt days.....so CCW was just starting or not even around yet. Either way, long before MOs version of constitutional carry |
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Posted: 5/31/2022 10:04:19 AM EDT
[#8]
It was always illegal to have a loaded long gun (non concealable) in your vehicle before CCW went into effect. And unless things have changed, it is still illegal to have a loaded "non concealable" firearm in the vehicle. I know that was the case when I looked into the laws when I built my first AR pistol.
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Posted: 5/31/2022 10:19:57 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delorean: I know it says that, but was that an exeception under a law that said you couldn't? Because just because it says that you CAN carry a concealed firearms in a vehicle, doesn't necessarily mean that you cannot do the opposite with a non concealable one. The exception may be for something else in that paragraph, like age IIRC, the car carry goes way back to the Gov Blunt days.....so CCW was just starting or not even around yet. Either way, long before MOs version of constitutional carry Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delorean: Originally Posted By Shootindave: It says concealable firearm. Which is defined as a barrel less than 16". The law does not use the terms handgun and rifle. Only firearm and concealable firearm. I know it says that, but was that an exeception under a law that said you couldn't? Because just because it says that you CAN carry a concealed firearms in a vehicle, doesn't necessarily mean that you cannot do the opposite with a non concealable one. The exception may be for something else in that paragraph, like age IIRC, the car carry goes way back to the Gov Blunt days.....so CCW was just starting or not even around yet. Either way, long before MOs version of constitutional carry The statute excludes the entire subsection for CCW holders, not line items of that section |
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Posted: 5/31/2022 1:48:37 PM EDT
[#10]
I've been searching for answers, and all of the results default to CCW. I haven't gotten one result that answers the question, whether I search for rifle, shotgun, or long gun. I wish that they didn't skew search results.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/31/2022 1:49:27 PM EDT
[#11]
What do they consider loaded? I keep an Aero 308 behind the back seat of my truck with a loaded 20rd magazine (3 more loaded 25rd lancer mags under the seat). Nothing in the chamber.
I'm also curious about KS. My work is about 50 yards across the state line 
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Posted: 5/31/2022 2:01:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Shootindave]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 67Firebird: I've been searching for answers, and all of the results default to CCW. I haven't gotten one result that answers the question, whether I search for rifle, shotgun, or long gun. I wish that they didn't skew search results. Missouri revised statutes Chapter 571 10.5 unlawful use of weapons Subsection 1: applies to CCW (unlawful) Exceptions (3) excludes subsection 1 for concealable firearms in a vehicle 19 years old and lawful possession otherwise Exceptions (4) excludes CCW holders from subsection 1 |
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Posted: 5/31/2022 11:40:11 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shootindave: Missouri revised statutes Chapter 571 10.5 unlawful use of weapons Subsection 1: applies to CCW (unlawful) Exceptions (3) excludes subsection 1 for concealable firearms in a vehicle 19 years old and lawful possession otherwise Exceptions (4) excludes CCW holders from subsection 1 That's an example. Every answer applies to CCW, which has nothing to do with the question. |
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Posted: 6/1/2022 12:15:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: It was always illegal to have a loaded long gun (non concealable) in your vehicle before CCW went into effect. And unless things have changed, it is still illegal to have a loaded "non concealable" firearm in the vehicle. I know that was the case when I looked into the laws when I built my first AR pistol. NOOOO! It is perfectly legal to have a loaded rifle in your vehicle in Missouri. Always has been. It is illegal to shoot from a motor vehicle, but there is no state criminal or game regulation that prohibits loaded firearms in a vehicle. If you went to any cities that banned open carry you could be charged, but now that open carry is legal with a CCW you can even carry a rifle openly in those cities now with a CCW permit. |
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Posted: 6/1/2022 3:48:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 67Firebird]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigHunt: ...there is no state criminal or game regulation that prohibits loaded firearms in a vehicle. "3 CSR 10-7.410 Hunting Methods" says that if you have any weapons in the vehicle, and cast a beam of light from your headlights onto a road or field with the intent of spotlighting game, it's illegal. I know we're not talking about poaching here, but who gets decide your intent? https://s1.sos.mo.gov/cmsimages/adrules/csr/current/3csr/3c10-7.pdf Edit - I just sent an email to the MO State Police, asking for a reply to this that I can post. |
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Posted: 6/2/2022 3:12:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chumpmiester]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigHunt: NOOOO! It is perfectly legal to have a loaded rifle in your vehicle in Missouri. Always has been. It is illegal to shoot from a motor vehicle, but there is no state criminal or game regulation that prohibits loaded firearms in a vehicle. If you went to any cities that banned open carry you could be charged, but now that open carry is legal with a CCW you can even carry a rifle openly in those cities now with a CCW permit. Then please cite the correct Mo state statute covering this and that states it is legal to have a loaded long gun in the vehicle. Because I know we use to get checked by both game wardens and city/county police and YES they would make sure the long guns were unloaded. And they would write you a citation if it was loaded inside the vehicle. |
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Posted: 6/2/2022 4:42:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bladeswitcher]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: Then please cite the correct Mo state statute covering this and that states it is legal to have a loaded long gun in the vehicle. Because I know we use to get checked by both game wardens and city/county police and YES they would make sure the long guns were unloaded. And they would write you a citation if it was loaded inside the vehicle. Laws don’t make acts legal. Laws make acts illegal. If it’s not specifically outlawed, it’s legal. But, yeah, I haven’t found a statute making carrying a loaded long gun concealed ILLEGAL. I assume it’s there somewhere since the CCW law includes a provision for carrying a concealable firearm in your car. |
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Posted: 6/2/2022 5:57:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mzM]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bladeswitcher: Laws don’t make acts legal. Laws make acts illegal. If it’s not specifically outlawed, it’s legal. But, yeah, I haven’t found a statute making carrying a loaded long gun concealed ILLEGAL. I assume it’s there somewhere since the CCW law includes a provision for carrying a concealable firearm in your car. Correct on the first part. There is no law against having a loaded rifle in your vehicle. There are laws against poaching, and state agents are rather known to sometimes overreact if you're out driving around in the country at night with a loaded rifle in the car. As to that provision for carrying a concealed handgun in your vehicle (that 19/18mil blurb) -- that is a meaningless remnant left over from when it was illegal to carry concealed without a permit, before permitless carry was enacted. It expanded rights to allow for "vehicle carry" so one could have a concealed handgun in the car without getting a permit. People tend to think that blurb is some kind of age restriction anymore. It's not. It restricts nothing. Note there are no penalties associated with it. It really is just a meaningless remnant left over from the bad old days. |
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Posted: 6/2/2022 9:29:39 PM EDT
[#19]
No reply yet from the state police.
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Posted: 6/2/2022 10:08:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 67Firebird: No reply yet from the state police. They're probably busy drafting legislation for next year . . . 
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Posted: 6/2/2022 11:25:41 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 6/9/2022 9:02:30 AM EDT
[#22]
Yes, it is legal. Concealed, or not. Loaded, or not. I have spoken with my county sherriff concerning the laws on this. What you would need to know would be local ordinances in any areas you travel through. As long as you avoid any major cities, you will be OK. DNR will be an issue if you are hunting illegally. During deer season, I always make sure there is not a round in the chamber.
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Posted: 6/9/2022 9:18:08 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jerrymanderer: DNR will be an issue if you are hunting illegally. During deer season, I always make sure there is not a round in the chamber. I know some laws have changed yet other laws have not. And no one has cited the correct state statutes concerning having a loaded and/or concealed rifle or shotgun in their vehicle. I do know years ago (before CCW passed) that it was illegal to have a loaded rifle or shotgun in your vehicle. The laws concerning weapons and CCW does not mention rifles and shotguns. |
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Posted: 6/9/2022 9:46:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Originally Posted By Jerrymanderer: DNR will be an issue if you are hunting illegally. Originally Posted By chumpmiester: DNR?????? Since when does the Department of Natural Resources have anything to do with hunting? I haven't heard of that either. Strictly a Mo Dept of Conservation thing. |
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Posted: 6/9/2022 3:52:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jerrymanderer]
[#25]
DNR and Dept of Conservation are pretty much one and the same in my area.
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Posted: 6/9/2022 3:58:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jerrymanderer]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: DNR?????? Since when does the Department of Natural Resources have anything to do with hunting? I know some laws have changed yet other laws have not. And no one has cited the correct state statutes concerning having a loaded and/or concealed rifle or shotgun in their vehicle. I do know years ago (before CCW passed) that it was illegal to have a loaded rifle or shotgun in your vehicle. The laws concerning weapons and CCW does not mention rifles and shotguns. Nobody can cite a state statute saying you cannot have a concealed, loaded rifle/shotgun in a vehicle because there isn't one. Which, by default, makes it legal. |
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Posted: 6/9/2022 9:30:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Missouri conceal carry laws only cover concealable firearms which mean any firearm UNDER 26" in OAL and/or which meets both federal and state law as being concealable. And if you read the Missouri statutes that cover conceal carry, it always states a concealable firearm. A rifle and shotgun do NOT meet the definition of concealable.
And if you conceal anything classified as a "firearm" by the ATF, then you have instantly created an unregisters AOW. This goes for the Mossberg Shockwave and similar along with AR's that are at least 26" in OAL but have never had a shoulder stock installed. So yes if you AR pistol is 26" or longer and you conceal it, you now have an AOW. I'm still digging into the state statutes on this along with waiting for 67firebird to get a response from the state. Again the CCW laws only cover concealable firearms. |
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Posted: 6/9/2022 10:34:22 PM EDT
[#28]
It appears to me that it falls under the castle doctrine of your car being an extension of your home.
 
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Posted: 6/9/2022 10:57:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Shootindave]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: Missouri conceal carry laws only cover concealable firearms which mean any firearm UNDER 26" in OAL and/or which meets both federal and state law as being concealable. And if you read the Missouri statutes that cover conceal carry, it always states a concealable firearm. A rifle and shotgun do NOT meet the definition of concealable. And if you conceal anything classified as a "firearm" by the ATF, then you have instantly created an unregisters AOW. This goes for the Mossberg Shockwave and similar along with AR's that are at least 26" in OAL but have never had a shoulder stock installed. So yes if you AR pistol is 26" or longer and you conceal it, you now have an AOW. I'm still digging into the state statutes on this along with waiting for 67firebird to get a response from the state. Again the CCW laws only cover concealable firearms. In my hard copy of the state law, printed by the state of missouri, printed mid-2017, concealable firearm is defined as having a barrel less than 16". It does not make any mention of OAL until you reference the definition for "short barrel" (firearms), which does not apply to the wording of the applicable statute. |
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Posted: 6/9/2022 11:47:00 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: I'm still digging into the state statutes on this along with waiting for 67firebird to get a response from the state. Still no reply. 
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Posted: 6/10/2022 12:12:02 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: Then please cite the correct Mo state statute covering this and that states it is legal to have a loaded long gun in the vehicle. Because I know we use to get checked by both game wardens and city/county police and YES they would make sure the long guns were unloaded. And they would write you a citation if it was loaded inside the vehicle. I’ve been checked within the last couple years. Climbed right into the truck and stuck my rifle right beside me without unloading it and all the conservation officer said was have a good day. County back road and he was sitting right by our gate when we came out so it wasn’t like he had anything else better to do if he wanted to chase me back down about it. |
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Posted: 6/10/2022 9:36:45 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shootindave: In my hard copy of the state law, printed by the state of missouri, printed mid-2017, concealable firearm is defined as having a barrel less than 16". It does not make any mention of OAL until you reference the definition for "short barrel" (firearms), which does not apply to the wording of the applicable statute. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shootindave: In my hard copy of the state law, printed by the state of missouri, printed mid-2017, concealable firearm is defined as having a barrel less than 16". It does not make any mention of OAL until you reference the definition for "short barrel" (firearms), which does not apply to the wording of the applicable statute. That maybe how the state statutes are written. But federal law still determines what is concealable. And per federal law is where the 26" OAL also comes into play. And the 16" length you quote only applies to rifles. Shotguns (designed to be fired from the shoulder) must have a barrel length of at least 18". I looked into keeping my Mossberg Shockwave concealed in my vehicle but per federal law as soon as I conceal it, it instantly becomes an unregistered AOW. The reasoning behind the 26-inch length is that it is the length above which the ATF declares an item to be non-concealable. If a firearm, like the Shockwave, becomes concealable, it's an AOW. It's an arbitrary length, but that's how the law's written. Again, you have to exclude common sense from gun laws. The Shockwave reaches its overall length via the somewhat long Raptor pistol grip and the combination of a 14-inch barrel. The length totals out to 26.37 inches and gives the gun a little extra to ensure it remains a Title I firearm. The above information can be found all over the internet. Here is just one source. https://sofrep.com/gear/the-shockwave-a-completely-legal-sawn-off/ I'll admit if I am wrong about having loaded rifles/shotguns in your vehicle. But I want to see the properly cited laws/statutes first. I know before CCW and Castle Doctrine went into effect it was illegal to to do so. And just because the current CCW laws do not mention rifles and shotguns does not mean that they are legal to conceal in your vehicle while they are loaded. Again, the state statutes talk about concealable firearms. Rifles and shotguns are not considered by both state and federal law. |
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Posted: 6/10/2022 10:53:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BigHunt]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: DNR?????? Since when does the Department of Natural Resources have anything to do with hunting? I know some laws have changed yet other laws have not. And no one has cited the correct state statutes concerning having a loaded and/or concealed rifle or shotgun in their vehicle. I do know years ago (before CCW passed) that it was illegal to have a loaded rifle or shotgun in your vehicle. The laws concerning weapons and CCW does not mention rifles and shotguns. It may have been illegal in cities that banned open carry, but in the vast majority of the state loaded rifles and shotguns in a vehicle have never been illegal. My entire life I have carried a loaded rifle in the truck everywhere I went outside the major cities and have never had a problem with it being loaded. And before someone says well the cops just didn't care. Wrong! Handguns were a huge deal to the cops before CCW and vehicle carry passed! I knew a lady that was arrested because her husband had left his handgun stuck between the seat and she got stopped for a stop sign violation. When she got out the trooper saw the gun and arrested her for carrying a concealed weapon. I.E he couldn't see it from his perspective at the window because it was between her and the console. Law enforcement's position on carrying handguns before 2003 was that it either had to be carried on the dash of the vehicle so there was no doubt it wasn't concealed, or completely unloaded and in a case or holster with no ammo in reach. Handgun ownership totally sucked in Missouri until 2003 when CCW was finally implemented, and got a whole lot better in 2007 when the permit to acquire was repealed. |
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Posted: 6/10/2022 11:00:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: That maybe how the state statutes are written. But federal law still determines what is concealable. And per federal law is where the 26" OAL also comes into play. And the 16" length you quote only applies to rifles. Shotguns (designed to be fired from the shoulder) must have a barrel length of at least 18". I looked into keeping my Mossberg Shockwave concealed in my vehicle but per federal law as soon as I conceal it, it instantly becomes an unregistered AOW. The above information can be found all over the internet. Here is just one source. https://sofrep.com/gear/the-shockwave-a-completely-legal-sawn-off/ I'll admit if I am wrong about having loaded rifles/shotguns in your vehicle. But I want to see the properly cited laws/statutes first. I know before CCW and Castle Doctrine went into effect it was illegal to to do so. And just because the current CCW laws do not mention rifles and shotguns does not mean that they are legal to conceal in your vehicle while they are loaded. Again, the state statutes talk about concealable firearms. Rifles and shotguns are not considered by both state and federal law. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: Originally Posted By Shootindave: In my hard copy of the state law, printed by the state of missouri, printed mid-2017, concealable firearm is defined as having a barrel less than 16". It does not make any mention of OAL until you reference the definition for "short barrel" (firearms), which does not apply to the wording of the applicable statute. That maybe how the state statutes are written. But federal law still determines what is concealable. And per federal law is where the 26" OAL also comes into play. And the 16" length you quote only applies to rifles. Shotguns (designed to be fired from the shoulder) must have a barrel length of at least 18". I looked into keeping my Mossberg Shockwave concealed in my vehicle but per federal law as soon as I conceal it, it instantly becomes an unregistered AOW. The reasoning behind the 26-inch length is that it is the length above which the ATF declares an item to be non-concealable. If a firearm, like the Shockwave, becomes concealable, it's an AOW. It's an arbitrary length, but that's how the law's written. Again, you have to exclude common sense from gun laws. The Shockwave reaches its overall length via the somewhat long Raptor pistol grip and the combination of a 14-inch barrel. The length totals out to 26.37 inches and gives the gun a little extra to ensure it remains a Title I firearm. The above information can be found all over the internet. Here is just one source. https://sofrep.com/gear/the-shockwave-a-completely-legal-sawn-off/ I'll admit if I am wrong about having loaded rifles/shotguns in your vehicle. But I want to see the properly cited laws/statutes first. I know before CCW and Castle Doctrine went into effect it was illegal to to do so. And just because the current CCW laws do not mention rifles and shotguns does not mean that they are legal to conceal in your vehicle while they are loaded. Again, the state statutes talk about concealable firearms. Rifles and shotguns are not considered by both state and federal law. There is no federal law concerning the carrying of a concealed firearm. So I have no clue what that has to do with the question at hand. You can simply search "Missouri Revised Statutes" "Chapter 571" and read the law and all applicable definitions. |
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Posted: 6/10/2022 5:42:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chumpmiester]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shootindave: There is no federal law concerning the carrying of a concealed firearm. So I have no clue what that has to do with the question at hand. You can simply search "Missouri Revised Statutes" "Chapter 571" and read the law and all applicable definitions. I mentioned federal laws due to the fact that someone else mentioned that Missouri Statutes only state a barrel less than 16" to be considering concealable. According to federal law, a rifle must be under 26" OAL to be considered concealable. And again, for those that are considering having a Mossberg Shockwave or Remington Tac 13/14 or an AR "firearm" that is over 26" OAL and has a VFG and concealing it in their vehicles, DON"T DO IT. By federal law, as soon as you conceal any gun that is classified as a "firearm" makes it instantly an illegal and unregistered AOW subject to all NFA laws. |
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Posted: 6/10/2022 5:46:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chumpmiester]
[#36]
And maybe the laws that did not allow loaded rifles or shotguns was a county law. St Charles County was pretty rural at that time outside of the City of St Charles. It was illegal at one time to do so in St Charles County, Mo. I know because the Sheriffs Dept. and Conservation agents would stop us and check.
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Posted: 6/10/2022 7:09:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: And again, for those that are considering having a Mossberg Shockwave or Remington Tac 13/14 or an AR "firearm" that is over 26" OAL and has a VFG and concealing it in their vehicles, DON"T DO IT. By federal law, as soon as you conceal any gun that is classified as a "firearm" makes it instantly an illegal and unregistered AOW subject to all NFA laws. So a 20" AR is fine to conceal in a car, but if you add a VFG it's an AOW? |
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Posted: 6/10/2022 10:03:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 67Firebird: So a 20" AR is fine to conceal in a car, but if you add a VFG it's an AOW? An AR that is 20" in OAL is already an AOW if you install a VFG according to federal law. To have a VFG on any gun it must be at least 26" in OAL unless you have it registers as a SBR (with stock) or registered as an AOW (without a stock). An AR pistol without a VFG is just that, a pistol. The issue of having a VFG or even angled grips less than 90 degrees has been discussed to death in the AR pistol section of this forum. And YES a VFG on any firearm less that 26" OAL needs to be registered as a NFA firearm. |
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Posted: 6/10/2022 11:16:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: I mentioned federal laws due to the fact that someone else mentioned that Missouri Statutes only state a barrel less than 16" to be considering concealable. According to federal law, a rifle must be under 26" OAL to be considered concealable. And again, for those that are considering having a Mossberg Shockwave or Remington Tac 13/14 or an AR "firearm" that is over 26" OAL and has a VFG and concealing it in their vehicles, DON"T DO IT. By federal law, as soon as you conceal any gun that is classified as a "firearm" makes it instantly an illegal and unregistered AOW subject to all NFA laws. Jesus fucking Christ. You are wrong. Stop. |
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Posted: 6/11/2022 9:42:52 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DmacRTCo: Jesus fucking Christ. You are wrong. Stop. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DmacRTCo: Originally Posted By chumpmiester: I mentioned federal laws due to the fact that someone else mentioned that Missouri Statutes only state a barrel less than 16" to be considering concealable. According to federal law, a rifle must be under 26" OAL to be considered concealable. And again, for those that are considering having a Mossberg Shockwave or Remington Tac 13/14 or an AR "firearm" that is over 26" OAL and has a VFG and concealing it in their vehicles, DON"T DO IT. By federal law, as soon as you conceal any gun that is classified as a "firearm" makes it instantly an illegal and unregistered AOW subject to all NFA laws. Jesus fucking Christ. You are wrong. Stop. Pretty much every link states the same thing that if you conceal a Shockwave or similar firearm it then becomes an AOW. It even states that fact on the determination letter that Mossberg received from the ATF and that they ship a copy of with every Shockwave sold. |
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Posted: 6/11/2022 11:57:51 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: An AR that is 20" in OAL is already an AOW if you install a VFG according to federal law. To have a VFG on any gun it must be at least 26" in OAL unless you have it registers as a SBR (with stock) or registered as an AOW (without a stock). An AR pistol without a VFG is just that, a pistol. The issue of having a VFG or even angled grips less than 90 degrees has been discussed to death in the AR pistol section of this forum. And YES a VFG on any firearm less that 26" OAL needs to be registered as a NFA firearm. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: Originally Posted By 67Firebird: So a 20" AR is fine to conceal in a car, but if you add a VFG it's an AOW? An AR that is 20" in OAL is already an AOW if you install a VFG according to federal law. To have a VFG on any gun it must be at least 26" in OAL unless you have it registers as a SBR (with stock) or registered as an AOW (without a stock). An AR pistol without a VFG is just that, a pistol. The issue of having a VFG or even angled grips less than 90 degrees has been discussed to death in the AR pistol section of this forum. And YES a VFG on any firearm less that 26" OAL needs to be registered as a NFA firearm. I'm coming at it from the other direction; I've never had any interest in a VFG, so I usually ignore that part and it's hard to figure out what else is being said because that's often the only focus. My question was primarily the first half, "So a 20" AR is fine to conceal in a car", with a follow-up in the second half, "but if you add a VFG it's an AOW?" I also meant 20" barrel, not OAL, so by not being precise I lead this away from anything I was trying to ask.
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Posted: 6/11/2022 1:53:31 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: Actually no I am not wrong. But go ahead and be a test case if you want to. Pretty much every link states the same thing that if you conceal a Shockwave or similar firearm it then becomes an AOW. It even states that fact on the determination letter that Mossberg received from the ATF and that they ship a copy of with every Shockwave sold. Your vehicle is an extension of your home. Conceal carry laws do not apply in your fucking house do they? |
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Posted: 6/11/2022 6:08:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DmacRTCo: Your vehicle is an extension of your home. Conceal carry laws do not apply in your fucking house do they? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DmacRTCo: Originally Posted By chumpmiester: Actually no I am not wrong. But go ahead and be a test case if you want to. Pretty much every link states the same thing that if you conceal a Shockwave or similar firearm it then becomes an AOW. It even states that fact on the determination letter that Mossberg received from the ATF and that they ship a copy of with every Shockwave sold. Your vehicle is an extension of your home. Conceal carry laws do not apply in your fucking house do they? What you said I was wrong on and what I am talking about is concealing a Mossberg Shockwave or similar which turns it into an instant AOW. That is federal law/ATF regulation period no matter what the state CCW or Castle Doctrine laws are. I never said that your car is NOT an extension of your home or that you could not have a loaded "concealable" firearm concealed in the vehicle. We were getting into what is and what is NOT considered concealable by both state and federal law. Missouri state law says a barrel under 16" BUT federal law states under 26" in OAL. My statements about the Shockwave and similar becoming an AOW as soon as you conceal them is due to the fact that they are over 26" in OAL. The ATF has stated that concealing and firearm that is classified as a "firearm" which is over 26" in OAL does become an AOW as soon as you conceal it. Before jumping on someone and telling them to "just stop" try re-reading to understand what they said. |
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Posted: 6/11/2022 9:41:10 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 6/11/2022 9:50:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chumpmiester]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 67Firebird: So this rifle, in a case behind the seat of a pickup, is an AOW? https://i.postimg.cc/tRrBr9Xn/20171112_RVL_Deer_(3).jpg Again what turns into an AOW is basically anything that is over 26" in OAL but has a barrel less than 16" (rifle) or 18" (shotgun) AND was designed to be shot using both hands yet NOT designed to be fired from the should using a shoulder stock. Sorry that I ever mentioned anything about the Shockwave or similar and how they become an AOW as soon as they are concealed. I was ONLY trying to help save people legal troubles since the Shockwave and similar are popular. Now if others would take to time to carefully read my posts first, then hey would see that IS what I am talking about. I NEVER ONCE SAID THAT CONCEALING A RIFLE OR SHOTGUN TURNS IT INTO AN UNREGISTERED AOW! Again I was only referring to those firearms that were designed to be shot with two hands but NOT from the shoulder AND have barrels less than 16" for rifle or less than 18" for smoothbore guns AKA the Mossberg Shockwave. |
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Posted: 6/11/2022 10:00:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: An AR that is 20" in OAL is already an AOW if you install a VFG according to federal law. To have a VFG on any gun it must be at least 26" in OAL unless you have it registers as a SBR (with stock) or registered as an AOW (without a stock). An AR pistol without a VFG is just that, a pistol. The issue of having a VFG or even angled grips less than 90 degrees has been discussed to death in the AR pistol section of this forum. And YES a VFG on any firearm less that 26" OAL needs to be registered as a NFA firearm. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: Originally Posted By 67Firebird: So a 20" AR is fine to conceal in a car, but if you add a VFG it's an AOW? An AR that is 20" in OAL is already an AOW if you install a VFG according to federal law. To have a VFG on any gun it must be at least 26" in OAL unless you have it registers as a SBR (with stock) or registered as an AOW (without a stock). An AR pistol without a VFG is just that, a pistol. The issue of having a VFG or even angled grips less than 90 degrees has been discussed to death in the AR pistol section of this forum. And YES a VFG on any firearm less that 26" OAL needs to be registered as a NFA firearm. |
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Posted: 6/11/2022 10:08:39 PM EDT
[#47]
Ok, but the thread is about rifles. I ran into this when I made my first pistol upper. Out of nowhere the topic kept changing to VFGs and stuff like that, which I had never asked about or shown any interest in having. It muddies the waters to where I can't pick out the proper answer.
It's like asking a question about fuel injection vs carbs, and the reply is DON'T RUN OPEN HEADERS! THAT'S ILLEGAL! 
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Posted: 6/13/2022 11:10:14 AM EDT
[#48]
I got a reply from the state police.
Here's the question I sent; " The question comes up regularly in gun forums, whether it's legal in Missouri to carry a loaded shotgun or rifle in a vehicle. I can't find any info that isn't geared towards concealable firearms, so I'm hoping to get a reply that I can re-post on some public forums." Their reply; "There is no law regulating the transport of loaded long guns in a vehicle in Missouri as long as the person can legally possess the guns. We do encourage the appropriate firearms safety measures are taken. Missouri State Highway Patrol Assistant Director Public Information and Education Division" |
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Posted: 6/13/2022 11:11:40 AM EDT
[#49]
@Ronnoc
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Posted: 6/13/2022 1:13:51 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 67Firebird: I got a reply from the state police. Here's the question I sent; " The question comes up regularly in gun forums, whether it's legal in Missouri to carry a loaded shotgun or rifle in a vehicle. I can't find any info that isn't geared towards concealable firearms, so I'm hoping to get a reply that I can re-post on some public forums." Their reply; "There is no law regulating the transport of loaded long guns in a vehicle in Missouri as long as the person can legally possess the guns. We do encourage the appropriate firearms safety measures are taken. Missouri State Highway Patrol Assistant Director Public Information and Education Division" I love MIssouri. |
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