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Posted: 1/27/2011 3:40:25 PM EDT

I'll just leave this here without comment for now. I'm still analyzing it myself, as it was just released today.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/012611-study-on-importality-of-certain-shotguns.pdf

Posted: 1/27/2011 5:11:11 PM EDT

[#1]

But THESE are a few of my favorite things:

(1) Folding, telescoping, or collapsible stocks;
(2) bayonet lugs;
(3) flash suppressors;
(4) magazines over 5 rounds, or a drum magazine;
(5) grenade-launcher mounts;
(6) integrated rail systems (other than on top of the receiver or barrel);
(7) light enhancing devices;
(8) excessive weight (greater than 10 pounds for 12 gauge or smaller);
(9) excessive bulk (greater than 3 inches in width and/or greater than 4 inches in depth);
(10) forward pistol grips or other protruding parts designed or used for gripping the
shotgun with the shooter’s extended hand.

Posted: 1/27/2011 5:52:27 PM EDT

[#2]

what gets me is the trench gun copies. i mean i wanted on of them.

such a bunch of bull. love how they make there own laws.

Ronald

Posted: 1/27/2011 6:09:17 PM EDT

[#3]

funny thing is they did not label that so called "non sporting" shotgun like they did with the others.

what a crock of sh....................

Posted: 1/27/2011 9:17:38 PM EDT

[#4]

Alright, I have barely skimmed the surface of this document... What are the implications of it?

Posted: 1/28/2011 4:51:56 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Alright, I have barely skimmed the surface of this document... What are the implications of it?

More bureaucratic BS and less fun for us.

Such acts will do NOTHING to curb ANY crimes.

Posted: 1/28/2011 5:14:48 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Alright, I have barely skimmed the surface of this document... What are the implications of it?

The implications are a huge lawsuit in the long run I hope. In the short run, batfe intends to block further importation of shotguns based on criteria such as "excessive bulk" or having a flashlight mount. Oh and if you want a Saiga 12, now is probably the time to buy one.

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Posted: 1/28/2011 5:33:54 AM EDT

[#7]

Glad I have one already. Maybe I should get a second.

Maybe I shouldn't post this. I'm sure it just makes all of you want to rob old ladies and smoke crack. Thats what assault shotguns like this do you know....thats right, I said it....assault shotgun.

Posted: 1/28/2011 10:01:49 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Alright, I have barely skimmed the surface of this document... What are the implications of it?

The implications are a huge lawsuit in the long run I hope. In the short run, batfe intends to block further importation of shotguns based on criteria such as "excessive bulk" or having a flashlight mount. Oh and if you want a Saiga 12, now is probably the time to buy one.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I didn't read all of it, but it all pertains to imported shotguns. Saiga's are not imported with any of the characteristics in the list. (I'm not sure about the weight or excessive

bulk though)

(1) Folding, telescoping, or collapsible stocks;
(2) bayonet lugs;
(3) flash suppressors;
(4) magazines over 5 rounds, or a drum magazine;
(5) grenade-launcher mounts;
(6) integrated rail systems (other than on top of the receiver or barrel);
(7) light enhancing devices;
(8) excessive weight (greater than 10 pounds for 12 gauge or smaller);
(9) excessive bulk (greater than 3 inches in width and/or greater than 4 inches in depth);
(10) forward pistol grips or other protruding parts designed or used for gripping the
shotgun with the shooter’s extended hand.

I'm just happy to know that my lightweight (sub 10 pound) and not-excessively bulky shotgun isn't as leathal and won't cause me to go on psyco shooting sprees. I was wanting to get a saiga and convert it with a good number of the above characteristics. Thank god the BATF saved me from becoming the next one to shoot up the workplace.

Posted: 1/28/2011 10:29:25 AM EDT

[#9]

Maxal, you are not allowed to add too many evil features to an already imported shotgun either. The imported shotgun must pass the ATF's points test prior to importation and at all times afterward. However my understanding is that an exception is if you were to file the proper paperwork and pay the proper taxes to turn it into a NFA item (short-barreled shotgun) at which time it is no longer considered a "sporting" firearms and as such does not need to comply with those silly "sporting" regulations.

Posted: 1/28/2011 11:13:33 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Maxal, you are not allowed to add too many evil features to an already imported shotgun either. The imported shotgun must pass the ATF's points test prior to importation and at all times afterward. However my understanding is that an exception is if you were to file the proper paperwork and pay the proper taxes to turn it into a NFA item (short-barreled shotgun) at which time it is no longer considered a "sporting" firearms and as such does not need to comply with those silly "sporting" regulations.

Unless you add 6 american parts to it. Mine has about 15. Then you can do almost anything you want to it.

Posted: 1/28/2011 11:55:05 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Maxal, you are not allowed to add too many evil features to an already imported shotgun either. The imported shotgun must pass the ATF's points test prior to importation and at all times afterward. However my understanding is that an exception is if you were to file the proper paperwork and pay the proper taxes to turn it into a NFA item (short-barreled shotgun) at which time it is no longer considered a "sporting" firearms and as such does not need to comply with those silly "sporting" regulations.

Unless you add 6 american parts to it. Mine has about 15. Then you can do almost anything you want to it.

I know about the 922r compliance rule making the firearm considered to be manufactured in the US. Will that technicality go away with this new rule?

Posted: 1/28/2011 12:14:42 PM EDT

[#12]

No, this has nothing to do with 922r. So someone who does a full conversion with the requisite US parts won't be in trouble, but someone who takes a bone stock Saiga and mounts a flashlight to the barrel with a clamp-on mount will be a felon.

I should point out that this release is only a study and does not have the force and effect of law. It is not a ruling. But it gives us an idea of what they are thinking of doing next.

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Posted: 1/28/2011 12:46:37 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

No, this has nothing to do with 922r. So someone who does a full conversion with the requisite US parts won't be in trouble, but someone who takes a bone stock Saiga and mounts a flashlight to the barrel with a clamp-on mount will be a felon.

I should point out that this release is only a study and does not have the force and effect of law. It is not a ruling. But it gives us an idea of what they are thinking of doing next.

Posted Via AR15.Com

Technically speaking, not much the ATF does has actual "law" behind it, just their non over-sighted regulations.

Posted: 1/28/2011 12:53:23 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Glad I have one already. Maybe I should get a second.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/bruh44/S12a.jpg

Maybe I shouldn't post this. I'm sure it just makes all of you want to rob old ladies and smoke crack. Thats what assault shotguns like this do you know....thats right, I said it....assault shotgun.

I'm not a fan of the Saiga's, but that looks badass.

Posted: 1/28/2011 1:03:24 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Glad I have one already. Maybe I should get a second.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/bruh44/S12a.jpg

Maybe I shouldn't post this. I'm sure it just makes all of you want to rob old ladies and smoke crack. Thats what assault shotguns like this do you know....thats right, I said it....assault shotgun.

Looks like a sporting shotgun to me. Those ducks can be a BITCH.

Posted: 1/28/2011 2:06:38 PM EDT

[#16]

Says a 10 ga bore is .0775"

That is smaller than a .410 The writer of the report is clueless..

The Second Amendment has nothing to do with "SPORTING".

The opinion that a 3-Gun match is not "sporting" is the opinion of someone that has never shot a 3-gun match and is therefore IGNORANT.

The restrictions proposed are a direct violation of the U.S. Constitution.

Time to defund the BATFE.

Posted: 1/28/2011 3:38:23 PM EDT

[#17]

It will be terribly interesting if they actually enact these into importation regulations. Seems like they would then have to carry over the sporting purposes language to domestic manufacture of shotguns also. Since most shotguns have a bore over .50 they then open a tremendously large can of worms in classifying a large number of shotguns as DD's since they no longer are protected by the sporting purpose language.

The sporting purpose test for rifles and handguns don't have the added complexity shotguns have with their larger bores so this could get very interesting.

Posted: 1/28/2011 7:08:24 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
It will be terribly interesting if they actually enact these into importation regulations. Seems like they would then have to carry over the sporting purposes language to domestic manufacture of shotguns also. Since most shotguns have a bore over .50 they then open a tremendously large can of worms in classifying a large number of shotguns as DD's since they no longer are protected by the sporting purpose language.

The sporting purpose test for rifles and handguns don't have the added complexity shotguns have with their larger bores so this could get very interesting.

I believe this to be their end goal.

Posted: 1/29/2011 5:25:31 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Glad I have one already. Maybe I should get a second.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/bruh44/S12a.jpg

Maybe I shouldn't post this. I'm sure it just makes all of you want to rob old ladies and smoke crack. Thats what assault shotguns like this do you know....thats right, I said it....assault shotgun.

It's not the gun but the toes in the picture that makes us act that way......

Posted: 1/29/2011 6:57:24 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

I'm not a fan of the Saiga's

What? That's outrageous.

Posted: 1/30/2011 6:55:49 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Glad I have one already. Maybe I should get a second.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/bruh44/S12a.jpg

Maybe I shouldn't post this. I'm sure it just makes all of you want to rob old ladies and smoke crack. Thats what assault shotguns like this do you know....thats right, I said it....assault shotgun.

Are those tactical toes?

Posted: 1/30/2011 9:01:54 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm not a fan of the Saiga's

What? That's outrageous.

Meh, add me to that list as well.

Posted: 1/31/2011 12:09:06 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Glad I have one already. Maybe I should get a second.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/bruh44/S12a.jpg

Maybe I shouldn't post this. I'm sure it just makes all of you want to rob old ladies and smoke crack. Thats what assault shotguns like this do you know....thats right, I said it....assault shotgun.

Are those tactical toes?

Those are leathal assault toes.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Latest release from BATFE

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