I'm having a debate on this subject at work and want to be able to make points from facts.  Does anyone know where I can find information on this subject?  My google-fu is weak on this for some reason.

www.hillaryclinton.com/

Was talking to an acquaintance of mine who is a doctor and was in the USAF for twenty years.  Asked him what he thought of govt. run healthcare and he said we already have it, its called the VA health care system which you are forced into when you join the military, and alot of people would rather go to a veterinarian than the VA.

My advice is, take some of the horror stories from the VA and then use them as an example of government wastefulness, and ask your audience to imagine extending the VA system nationwide while simultaneously killing off all other health care choices.

oh come on, we all know we want more Regs, and more heartaches.  more stupid mandatory files and transfers and crap we have to report.  more useless stats, a virtual EMR that will not get there and is years behind what it needs to be.  limited funding from a market that is already barely making it. its not like the new DRG changes isn't enough to cripple all small hospitals. opps i am sorry 3/4 of your population is a non CC pt, its not server enough were not going pay you even enough to cover your cost. even though 3/4 of your patients is Medicare and Medicaid and were doing free care anyway while the 1/4 is sellf pay which a bad debt and wont pay either. you write off 51% of your total charges.

please let get Nationalized Healthcare..please i am dieing over hear  all ready lets add more pain to my life.

its a pipe dream. that wont work.

sorry for the semi rant.

Ronald

I agree that it won't work.  I like the idea of using the VA as am example.  If it won't work for several million vets, what makes them think it'll work for a 300 million person population.  Hillary's suggestion of a 110 bil over 5 year budget means exactly $73.33 per person per year for us in the way of healthcare.

Also Canada as a model every citizen gets 2 visits to a doctor per year, if you NEED more than two you go to your local health clinic and wait in a line to get an appointment for the day, if you don't get an appt, you come back the next day... repeat until you get in. - this was per canadian guest on Mike Church radio show I think?

I think getting rid of insurance companies and dis-allowing lawsuits against docs for stupid things. If intent to harm it should be a criminal trial not civil for money.
Costs come way down when INS companies are gone...

I thought I heard 1/6 of the economy is health care related. When has anyone ever said the gov is really doing a great job of this or that. ETA: the people don't trust the gov to do anything right, but would love them to have control of 1/6 of the economy.

Health care is private sector (FREE MARKET) what would the motivation be to do anything new (medical technology) if you are a gov employee doctor why would I want to be a doctor? the financial motivation would not be there.

This bill was supposed to be just for children.  Wonder where illegal imigrant children fall into the definition?

just my two cents...

With national healthcare, it would also require nation-wide competitive bidding (this is happening now in some area's for medicare/medicaid) for all DME and Respitory services. The problem with that is the .gov would then be telling you where you can go for a wheelchair, Oxygen, and whatever else you need. You would get no choice of the service provided (or lack of).   (example...   You go to the medical equipment provider(because they don't deliver for what the .gov pays them), pick up your equipment(well used of course) and if it breaks, or you can't figure it out, you are just SOL. If you need more oxygen tanks, you have to bring them in to the office to exchange but only if you are within your allowable amount for the month. Otherwise, you are once again SOL.)

Its just better for the .gov stay out of the healthcare industry.  


(small disclaimer...  Yes, I do work for a medical equipment provider so I am a little biased on the subject)

I brought up facts and statistics and his mind is made up that we need this based on what the libs say.  He didn't like me bursting his bubble i guess.  I understand his motivation, he can't afford our co. ins. for his boy that and he is thinking w/ his dick.  we have some new help in the stock room and she is a lib and he is sweet on her.  She didn't like me bursting her lib bubble either.  She said I'm being narrow minded when I say facts and can back em' up.  I asked her to show me a factual basis for her lib thinking and she couldn't do it (suprise suprise).  Oh yeah I'm just a mean hate monger.

Mustangracer,

Be very careful my friend. It is bad enough to get a guy pissed off because you bust his bubble. And some will try to do you harm (false witness). But a woman can say she felt threatened by you (does she know you like to shoot guns, or could in the future?). Also women are good for spreading rumors and presenting false witness statements.

Watch your 6 buddy. Feed them facts, just enough to give them doubt about something. But be careful how far you push a lib. They will work the system, and you will be without a job.

Max-Paul is paranoid even by my standards, but gosh, I'm afraid I really have to agree with him on this.  Watch yer mouth while getting into these discussions.

I never got angry or defensive, just stated facts and they didn't like that.  You guys bring up valid points I guess I'm gonna have to refain from getting into political discussions at work from now on.

Me!! Paranoid??? I am not paranoid nuke!!
WHATS THAT?? I HEAR CHOPPER blades beating off in the distance..

They're getting closer, and closer yet. Well If you don't hea....

It's only the black ones w/o markings that I worry about, manned by top secret NATO ninjas (usually chinese, or extra terrestrial) that take the more dosile, less resistant, of us conservative minds off to mobile incinerators,
 all the benifits of shooting back, nobody wants to kidnapp and probe you when they might catch a hydroshock

Quoted: It's only the black ones w/o markings that I worry about, manned by top secret NATO ninjas (usually chinese, or extra terrestrial) that take the more dosile, less resistant, of us conservative minds off to mobile incinerators,  all the benifits of shooting back, nobody wants to kidnapp and probe you when they might catch a hydroshock

Hell bud the consider you a big enough threat there sending gun ships to fly over your house and the new shop location, not just one but a group of them. i mean come on black helio's is one thing but to send Longbows.. thats crazy.



Ronald

One more thing I "WANT" and an "ENTITLED" to "FREE" HBO from direct TV !!!!

AND I "WANT" MY MORTGAGE paid because don't I have a "RIGHT" to a safe place to live??


??????????????????????


free health care ---

Quoted: I'm having a debate on this subject at work and want to be able to make points from facts.  Does anyone know where I can find information on this subject?  My google-fu is weak on this for some reason.

Our missionary kids just got back from Taiwan after spending two years there. They have two going on three kids themselves. They have socialized health care in Taiwan and it is slow, inconsistent, and dangerous. When our daughter-in-law went to one of their mega-hospitals the corridors were filled with the sick and injured. They also complained that the hospitals they had to visit were filthy. Enough to bring them back home for a 5 month furlough so she can have our third grandbaby here in the states. Anybody that wants to have socialized health care...well...just send them to my home so I can give them a good swift kick in the head.

top secret NATO ninjas

If I may derail the topic for just a moment, the above statement almost made me fry my keyboard with my hot drink!!!!!!!!!!!!    Funniest thing I have read in a while.

All joking aside, I have worked with a number of people over the past several years that hail from everywhere between Denmark to Canada.  I have spoken at length to them about this.  To me, it sounds like there are just as many problems with socialized healthcare as privatized, they are just different problems.  The primary complaint that I have heard is the excessive waiting and sometimes reduced quality of care.  My fear, as others have expressed, does not lie in the "unitized"/socialized system, but in the management and control.  Mismanagement of the system could have disastrous effects to our society, economy, etc.  Personally, I have busted my hump to get where I am at today (and it is not that high on the totem pole) and still bust it to make ends meet.  And, I am insured and pay very much to be so.  But, I am still here, my family eats,  sleep under our own roof, my kids are clothed, etc.  So, it can be done in our current system, it just takes motivation, hard work and doing without certain things!!!!!!  

Sorry for the slight digression, but had to vent a little.