So IIRC, and my math is right, aren't we three days away from the CCW bill quietly passing into law? If of course Holden is too "busy" to veto it.

I don't know about you, but I'm biting my nails........

http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=194049

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=194049

Nope, we're screwed, as usual.  I hope Holden takes a short airplane flight from Jeff city into a field somewhere...

NNNOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

Damn, damn, fuck, damn, damn!!


I really was holding out hope that it would quietly pass.

Damn I hope we can override this veto.

Dont they have enough votes to override the veto?  Am I wrong here?

oz

Sorry guys, we won't have the votes to override.  Several republicans have been bought off.  Here's how it works:

Several republicans who are "retiring from public service" are getting appointments from the governor to slide into high-level civil service positions after their term limits are up.  They stay in the state job for a couple of years and then retire at full pension, just like an average joe who put in 35 years at the agency.  After the minimum amount of time needed to qualify for the pension, they vacate the position, which the democrats who control it then offer to another retiring legislator.  These positions are either used to reward a legislator who toed the party line faithfully for years and years, or in exchange for a crucial abstention vote on an important topic.  

Of course, legally speaking, I can't prove that any of this happens, but when I was down there I saw THIRTEEN "administrative law judge" positions get handed out by the dems in ONE session.  The ALJ positions aren't appointed, they have to be voted on by the house of reps and every vote was straight down party lines.  No republican got a position that year and it was seen as a major snub that the dems hadn't even tried to buy anyone off (at that time they had a big enough majority that they didn't have to).

There is nothing we can do.  Writing letters and calling is just a bullshit line we feed ourselves to make us feel better about that fact that we are getting walked all over by a political machine.  Its like an environmentalist who thinks he's saving the planet by recycling cans, when the truth of the matter is, the environment is doomed no matter what any of us do.

If you want to kill any of these people we should talk in private and not on the internet.  Have a nice day.

^^^ As you can tell, Duke is fully supportive of our legislative processes and elected officials  

Well, I haven't spent time there, but I *DO* know my local rep and senator ARE receptive to phone calls, email, and when they're in town (ie, not jeff city) especially drop-in visits.  And they actually LISTEN!

OK, so I'm not from KC or St. Loonie, and I can see why people there have given up on their politics.

Believe it doesn't help if you want, but make the calls, send the letters and emails, JUST IN CASE.

One could make an analogy to voting?  "Well, my vote doesn't matter, since this is such a democrat ridden area anyway, there's no way the guy (gal) I want will win...blah blah blah"  Yet no one here would advocate not voting.

The truth is, sending letters, making calls, stopping in to talk to your representative/senator is like being able to vote on EVERY issue that comes up.  When you elect someone, that doesn't mean they're put in office to do as they please until they're up for reelection.

Just curious.  Does Missouri's constitution have give the ability to do a recall on the govenor (ala Gray Davis)?  We can't stop the machine, but we can adjust to its rules and then become a thorn in their side.  It would take some effort on our part.  We'd have to organize and try to focus all that outstate dissatisfaction with our illustrious govenor.  What Holden wants is to see this die and quiet down.  What we need to do is find a way to keep this in the public eye.  How?  I don't know, but some on this board may have experience in these matters and could advise.  Cutter or Duke - any thoughts?  Anyone else?

Representative Government, eh???

Representative of WHAT???

Politicians have gotten out of hand...
They no longer represent the people...

Our Politicain system need an enema...

What would the state do if ALL Missourians CCW'd anyway???  Arrest us ALL???

Quoted: Well, I haven't spent time there, but I *DO* know my local rep and senator ARE receptive to phone calls, email, and when they're in town (ie, not jeff city) especially drop-in visits.  And they actually LISTEN!

Yes, they listen, and then they do whatever they want anyway.  They'll smile, nod, shake your hand, and repeat back to you whatever you said.  I used to be one of these people.

Believe it doesn't help if you want, but make the calls, send the letters and emails, JUST IN CASE.

In case your letter convinces them not to take the $60,000 a year pension from an ALJ position and "do the right thing" instead.  I'm pretty good at legal writing but I'd sure like to see that letter.

One could make an analogy to voting?  "Well, my vote doesn't matter, since this is such a democrat ridden area anyway, there's no way the guy (gal) I want will win...blah blah blah"  Yet no one here would advocate not voting.

Actually, a friend at the capitol told me how the Democrats rig the elections in St. Louis.  I didn't believe him but there was only one way to find out.  In the fall of 2000 I voted for G.W. Bush twice, in two different counties.  I took advantage of a loophole that has not been modified since the early 1900s when the Pendergast machine was at the hight of its power.  Neither the legislature nor any state agency has ever seen fit to change the law, which leads me to believe that they like it that way.  When I confronted the state judiciary committe about it, admitting my behavior in the process, two irate senators called the dean of my law school and tried to get me kicked out of Mizzou.  Of course they didn't have enough evidence to charge me with anything, so the dean let me stay in the school.  (I didn't take two years of criminal procedure for nothing!)  The Columbia Daily Tribune also wrote a small article about my testimony but thank God I didn't become the "scandal of the week" around here.  So now you know why my faith in "one man, one vote" isn't as strong as it used to be.

The truth is, sending letters, making calls, stopping in to talk to your representative/senator is like being able to vote on EVERY issue that comes up.  When you elect someone, that doesn't mean they're put in office to do as they please until they're up for reelection.

Keep recycling those cans buddy, I wish I still had your faith.

Our Political system has become a BIG BUSINESS...

It is self-perpetuated by the Thugs that are fortunate enough to get in the game...
GREED is their only motivation, and maintaining their power over us (the people) is their only priority...

Get the big bucks to sit on your fat ass and do as you please...
giving lip service to your constituents, and creating laws that you are exempt from...

Hell of a job...


______________________________
"Give me Liberty, or give me death" - Patrick Henry

I just checked the local news sources and so far nothing about a veto today.

Too bad that I do not have the means to speak thier (the democraps, and most any polititian) language...  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Perhaps someday we will be able to teach them a second language.   Anyone know how to translate the US Constitution into dollars and cents?  Maybe if we can just translate the 2nd amendment it would be cheaper.

Here is the link to Holden's Veto. It is official. Maybe someone can link it for me.

http://www.gov.state.mo.us/legis03/HB349vl.htm

Quoted: Here is the link to Holden's Veto. It is official. Maybe someone can link it for me. www.gov.state.mo.us/legis03/HB349vl.htm

It is official, the sorry bastard veto'd it. I know it is a long shot but I am hoping for the veto to be overturned by the legislature. I already left my nastygram on holdens comment line this morning.
What a bastard, with all the other states allowing CCW now this just goes to prove what I tell everyone about this sack-of-shit state, we are at least 20 years behind everyone else.
Personally I blame the st. louis and kansas city areas with their overpopulation of ethnic-minority-do-what-their-handlers-say democrap party.
Umm.. do I sound a bit bitter here?

Gary, whats the number to leave a nasty-gram?

//www.gclastl.org/contact_the_governor.html

Governor "Shit Hole" Bob Holden
Missouri Capitol Building, Room 216
PO Box 720
Jefferson City, Missouri 65102

Missouri Phone Numbers
Telephone: (573) 751-3222
Fax: (573) 751-1495


Duke,
I'm not gary but here you go, just call and ask the receptionist to be conected to the "opinion line".
Dogma


edited to correct otb's name

Yup, and I would love to see the phone system there crash due to too much traffic. I know the scum-sucking butt munch cares only about his political future (which is non-existent) but if he does get hammered with a few thousand calls he might become a bit gun-shy next time something like this comes up.
BTW, I have his office on speed dial on my phone, he is listed under Gov. Buttmuncher

I just want to add one thing about my previous post.  About the voting thing, don't ask how I did it.  I pretty much never talk about it and the more I open my mouth about it the more probable cause is out there lurking in the dark.  It was stupid to cheat the system like that and hope they wouldn't figure it out and come after me, but then to sit there in that room and ADMIT IT and tell those people that I thought they were all a bunch of frauds, on the record, was the stupidest thing I've ever done.  I almost ruined my life in one hour trying to prove a point to city hall, it was the stupidest thing I've EVER done in my young life and I'll NEVER do anything like it again.

Just to clarify.

Just watched the local news (NBC affiliate in St. Louis KSDK).  They never mentioned it at all.  It'll probably be on the last page of the paper tomorrow.  The mainstream media is helping Holden make this go quietly away.

Quoted: Just watched the local news (NBC affiliate in St. Louis KSDK).  They never mentioned it at all.  It'll probably be on the last page of the paper tomorrow.  The mainstream media is helping Holden make this go quietly away.

Fox news at 10:00 out of KC covered the veto; pictures, his reasons, some proponents reasons, etc.

Fox News must burn a lot of the other network executive's asses since they at least try to be more balanced in their reporting.

Quoted: Quoted: Well, I haven't spent time there, but I *DO* know my local rep and senator ARE receptive to phone calls, email, and when they're in town (ie, not jeff city) especially drop-in visits.  And they actually LISTEN! Yes, they listen, and then they do whatever they want anyway.  They'll smile, nod, shake your hand, and repeat back to you whatever you said.  I used to be one of these people. Believe it doesn't help if you want, but make the calls, send the letters and emails, JUST IN CASE. In case your letter convinces them not to take the $60,000 a year pension from an ALJ position and "do the right thing" instead.  I'm pretty good at legal writing but I'd sure like to see that letter. One could make an analogy to voting?  "Well, my vote doesn't matter, since this is such a democrat ridden area anyway, there's no way the guy (gal) I want will win...blah blah blah"  Yet no one here would advocate not voting. Actually, a friend at the capitol told me how the Democrats rig the elections in St. Louis.  I didn't believe him but there was only one way to find out.  In the fall of 2000 I voted for G.W. Bush twice, in two different counties.  I took advantage of a loophole that has not been modified since the early 1900s when the Pendergast machine was at the hight of its power.  Neither the legislature nor any state agency has ever seen fit to change the law, which leads me to believe that they like it that way.  When I confronted the state judiciary committe about it, admitting my behavior in the process, two irate senators called the dean of my law school and tried to get me kicked out of Mizzou.  Of course they didn't have enough evidence to charge me with anything, so the dean let me stay in the school.  (I didn't take two years of criminal procedure for nothing!)  The Columbia Daily Tribune also wrote a small article about my testimony but thank God I didn't become the "scandal of the week" around here.  So now you know why my faith in "one man, one vote" isn't as strong as it used to be. The truth is, sending letters, making calls, stopping in to talk to your representative/senator is like being able to vote on EVERY issue that comes up.  When you elect someone, that doesn't mean they're put in office to do as they please until they're up for reelection. Keep recycling those cans buddy, I wish I still had your faith.

Fine, you give up on it.  I'll hold out a wee bit of hope that the system can partially work.  Do I believe it really helps?  Not really.  What I do believe in is that the only way to fail is to fail to try.

You think the legislature would keep bringing a CCW bill up year after year after year if they weren't hearing about it from their constituants?  Perhaps, but I think not.

I'm not in a large city (far from it) and I do know both my rep and senator personally, from around town, and I know they actually vote the way their constituants want for the most part.  (It helps here that I'm in the majority opinion around here, and think the same way that they do)  If I was back in KC, I wouldn't believe for a second that those assholes care about anything other than their retirement at our expense.

Good point...  everyone should now be focusing on calling their Reps & Senators...
Why???  
We've got to override Holden's veto...

It ain't over yet...
Call, write, knock on doors - speak up Missourians - let your voices be heard...

I won't die without a fight...