Fellas,

I just received confirmation that my local CLEO will not sign for anyone (including leo's under him). I was rejected this past summer and figured I would give it some time to cool down before I tried again... but I will again be denied based on the information I have been given....

Since going the trust route is now, not possible because I can't transfer a firearm from an individual to a trust post 4/4/13... I can only go with another approved person to sign...

With that being said has anyone had experience with the Colonel of the State Police or any other individual? I am in New Haven county if it matters..

thanks!

Change your address, go to a different town, get it signed, send it out. Get the stamp back then change back your address ,


Probably illegal but its the best I can come up with.

what town?

Talk to his boss

Branford.... He is the boss... Who does the CLEO report too?

Also; would having a secondary residence (ie. where my father lives) work?

I don't reside there primarily but ya...

I would not lie on a federal form.

There are others that can sign.

As provided by regulations, certifications by the local chief of police, sheriff of the county, head of the State police, or State or local district attorney or prosecutor are acceptable. The regulations also provide that certifications of other officials are appropriate if found in a particular case to be acceptable to the Director. Examples of other officials who have been accepted in specific situations include State attorneys general and judges of State courts having authority to conduct jury trials in felony cases.
[27 CFR 479.63 and 479.85]

Get a preban gun
Get a trust
Tell him to go fuck himself

Better hurry up with the trust.

Atf has a change proposal to include a signoff for all trust members

I'm in NH county also but my chief has signed off while I waited.

so who qualifies in the state of CT... Colonel of the St police? Any experience with him?

Would a CT state Marhsal Qualify?

Quite frankly I'm not dropping 1500 on a pre-ban. I still don't understand why people recommend this as the "go-to" solution for... well everything.
It's my right to have NFA items.. I don't feel the need to spend 1500$ for something I'm entitled too.

I agree I wouldn't lie on the form.

I used to use our resident trooper till 2 years ago they said that wasn't allowed anymore. Now it's given to DPS in Middletown and I think the colonel sighs it.   I'd look at my form but it's pending with ATF. Took about a month for it to come back from CSP.

so just send it to the DESP Colonel and wait?

I'm fine with waiting, I'm just tired of dealing with an uneducated LEO.

The Mayor

No.

Prebans are your only option now.  And are small beans compared to NFA toys.   The only prebans that are expensive compared to the rest of the country are non Colt AR's and maybe MAK 90's.  Everything else has nationwide collector value in their own right.  Face it. The days of the $600 M&P Sport came and went for us.  If you didn't buy-in then, you buy in now or go without.  Keep waiting and you may go without forever if the legislature changes the preban exemption

Shop around.  You might find a preban for very reasonable prices.   Right place.  Right time and all that.

Op what is it your trying to buy?
If its an mg- go the trust route. It isn't an aw and can transfer into your trust w/ no problem.
By the way I have an apartment for rent and my chief will sign

I simply want to SBR an already owned AR.

Nothing more nothing less.

You still have that two way mirror installed there?

Well a preban isn't going to make the chief sign any easier.  So I do t know what the preban rant is about.


Do an NFA trust.   NFA is addicting.  If MG's are out of your price range, silencers and AOW's can keep you plenty busy

His logic is pre-ban and then put it in a trust... so spend 2k for something that should cost me 200$...

I'll try the State Police route if others have had success.


edit: can't transfer firearms into a trust.....

I think you are over implicating this

Pre ban and post ban has  on no bearing on if it can go on an NFA trust or not.

Pre ban or post ban has nothing to do if you can SBR this or not.

I don't see an issue with the Feds caring if you put it in an NFA trust from the state law point of view.  

The LEO is wrong if he thinks you need a preban to do anything.

A lot of people were trying to create trusts for owning their weapons at the state registration.  That has nothing to do with the Feds.

How can you transfer a post ban into a trust. If he cant transfer it to me than he cant transfer it into a trust. A transfer is a transfer, regardless.

So doing a trust would mean he'd need a fresh rifle which, in this case, would need to be preban.

If I am wrong, please say so.

I dont think a preban can be put into a trust either. Its still an AW and needs to follow AW rules.

I have been told by an attorney that if you did not transfer it into a trust prior to 4/413 you are screwed. A trust is considered a "person" and you can't transfer an AW to a person anymore. A pre-ban might be good to go if you do it before 4/1/14 when you will need a long gun certificate to buy any long gun. I have some pre-bans I was thinking of trying to put in trust.

How do you transfer into a trust. A preban transfer of a rifle still requires a DPS3. Before 4/2013, it didn't matter.

That's for registering with the state as a trust.

Everyone was trying to do an end around the state registration by throwing the word "trust" around .  

NFA gas specific language regarding an entity owning NFA items.  The ct law is just a registration of owners

Did you ever actually transfer things into trusts?

Say none of this newtown shit happened

Say I had form 1 a Glock into an SBR with a stock kit

Say I decided that I wanted all my NFA in a trust a year later because I'm collecting a lot of NFA.

I form 4 my Glock SBR into my new trust.

But do I need a dps-3-c to transfer?


My point is that I don't think it constitutes a transfer

I'm interested in this as well. I still live in FL and registered a couple things as an individual.  I was on the fence about registering and decided to do it. Later, I realized I should have transferred them to my nfa trust to protect them for my son later on.  If the rifles were acquired before the ban, and the trust was set up before the ban, are you telling me that CT would not recognize my trust as the owner of said firearms if I transfered them to my trust before I move up there?  Mainly I'm worried about what happens if I get hit by a truck. I guess I would just tell my wife to move all the shit to a locker in PA?  Or transfer to a trusted relative in a free state? Thread hijacked. Sorry OP.

This really feels like technical bullshit.

Death for NFA isn't an issue. Have a will with directions and a form 5 ready to go for your heirs. Its a tax free transfer.

Matt, how does the state recongnize trusts? Depending how the state views it , can't placing items in a trust post 4/13 be construed as a transfer?

I dont have a trust, all my nfa is individual. Before 4/13 there was no specific wording in our AWB in regards to trusts. But now there is. Thats all I am saying. I'm not a lawyer. But maybe preban can be put into a trust post 4/13 since they are able to be transferred ..

Its just ridiculous that we have to even think about it. But since the OP has a post original ban and he doesn't want a preban, send his paperwork to SP for a signature. Be done with it. You still have a 10+ month wait after your paperwork arrives.

I don't know really.  I'm thinking out loud here.

A transfer to a trust for federal is recognized at the federal level, but at the state level, you still own it.

For example, if you owned a full auto STEN in a trust since 2003, you would have had to complete a State of Connecticut annual machine gun registration by July 1st of every year since you owned it and within the first 48 hours of acquiring it from your C3 FFL.   As far as I know, these are done in the owner's name, not the trust's name.  

The above doesn't set they precedence for if the state still regards a trust as a Seperate entity or not for the purposes of ownership.    But is an example of my point that I think that while the federal gov looks at NFA trusts as a Seperate entity, the state does not.  My thought is that for the purposes of the state, the trust and the individual are one and the same.   I think this gets I to definitions of property and whatnot, but guns, not being real property(as in not title like real estate etc) are the property of the individual that formed the trust.  Thus no transfer is taking place.  It is simply adding a title around it for purposes of bequeath or inheritence.   While the law says nothing about multiple people being listed as beneficiaries, I don't think the state is concerned, and that they will identify one individual as the "owner" of the NFA item regardless.

I might be talking squarely out of my ass here, but I've always had issues with the idea that the Feds and state view trusts the same way.   I guess it would also be worth it to think about how we handled transfers (if there was one) into an NFA trust from a personal collection prior to all of the new bullshit laws.  Think of a.scenario where a transfer would require a DPS3 or background check, and one without, and were they required to move said items Into a trust.   If they did or did not should be the evidence of is this a transfer in the sense that I would sell you a revolver.

i remember my lawyer saying that NFA items are exempt from the new AWB crap, any info on that?  like my SBR from AZ, i was a bit confused on how to register that or if i even had to.



OP since you already have the AR get DPS to sign it off or you can get a court order to have your CLEO sign the form 1, i know some people have had to do that with theirs before.

What we need in this forum is a list of questions that we all have in regards to this law and what we can do and can't do.

Bring that to a well known firearms attorney and have them answer the questions.

We would all have to chip in for the cost but then we would have some answers.

There is a Class 3 General forum on this website loaded with FAQ's, Stickys, and even link to the NFA handbook. Its a good subforum to answer general questions but probably won't address some of the new CT BS issues. I got a lot of good info there.

They aren't exempt.

Let me clarify that further- full auto only (or burst only) machineguns are unquestionably not assault weapons since they are not semi automatic, nor are they select fire. If you are a believer (which I am NOT), then all (federally transferable) select fire machineguns are transferable assault weapons per 53-202m.

These ARE CT specific issues

The NFA part isn't a factor.

Ok that's what I thought.  I was thinking I should have registered my Mac 11, then I can have it in stock form of semi and FA.  I got lazy and didn't register it.

And ALL transferable machine guns are preban

Only if you believe in the CSP interpretation of 53-202m.



Obviously all transferable machineguns were made well prior to 13 Sep 1994, given the May 1986 cutoff. The current CSP interpretation of 53-202m disregards the (red highlighted) text which appears to limit 53-202m to be applicable only to pre 13 Sep 1994 firearms that were defined as assault weapons under the old feature ban.

OP found this info when searching who other than CLEO is an acceptable sign off on ATF Form 1 and 4's.


.....must complete and submit to the Treasury Department an ATF Form 4. See 26 U.S.C. section 5812(a). As a part of this form, the transferee must obtain certification by the local police chief, sheriff of the county, head of the state police, state or local district attorney or prosecutor, or such other person as may be acceptable to the ATF. 27 C.F.R. section 179.85. The required certification states: that the certifying official is satisfied that the finger- prints and photograph accompanying the application are those of the applicant and that the certifying official has no information indicating that the receipt or possession of the firearm would place the transferee in violation of State or local law or that the transferee will use the firearm for other than lawful purposes.

It would take a little more searching to find all the names of the acceptable signers and that would make a great sticky in the CT HTF or addition to the thread that lists go no go towns for NFA sign off.

If named transferable MG's were banned under the original ban, then how did hundreds of MAC owners purchase their guns?  Same thing with converted colt AR-15's, sporters, and AK-47's.

Under the old law, the only way to get an AK in 7.62x 39 was to buy a transferable full auto only.

I've seen form 4's for these signed by the top guys in CSP in the past few years.  There is no ambiguity on a form 4.  Pretty clearly reads AK-47 or Colt SP1


The only thing you couldn't do is have select fire.   ( which was loosely complied with anyways)

If you would, please break it down for me as I am not sure of what you mean. I am not flaming you and perhaps you are correct. I am just unsure of the point you are trying to make. Thank you
nutter

Yes, all full-auto are preban, but 53-202m does not say "all prebans need not be registered and are therefore transferable". It specifically calls out certain sections.

Subsections 3&4 are the only parts named in 53-202m and they only deal with semi-auto firearms.

Subsection 1 is what would need to be called out to include full-auto in 53-202m.

Subsection (1) of part (a) of 53-202a defines full-autos as assault weapons. But since they aren't included in 53-202m, one could extrapolate that they are no longer transferable because they would need to be registered and since the registration deadline ended.....

It is my understanding that all non select fire MG's are ok. Select fire to mean "safe, semi, full auto"

The only way a selective fire MG would be in CT by a private citizen would be under grandfathering. It would not be an in-state transferable item. Therefore only non selective fire MGs are legal in CT by private citizens. However, if you read my previous post, it is that statement which is being questioned. There are parts of the law which make transferring an MG out to be illegal.

The interpreter will be your hangman!

Machine guns have their own separate registration with the State.  Been that way for years.

unless it was registered during the period between between laws

A machinegun capable of select fire was also required to be registered as an assault weapon (in addition to the annual mg registration) to remain legal after the initial CT state ban.

Current CSP interpretation of 53-202m seems to be that ANY firearm made before 13 SEP 1994 is a preban that qualifies for the preban exemption- but the statutory text suggests otherwise.

Correct! safe-auto  (or auto only) OR safe-burst  (Or bust only) is OK. .


the way CT law is written, safe-auto-burst would also be considered select fire.

Under the 1993 ban, which was in effect on 1 JAN 2013, select fire firearms were assault weapons per 53-202a(a)(1). A strict textual interpretation of 53-202m, in it's current form, would indicate that as a result, select fire firearms are not exempted from the registration requirement/ transfer prohibition- even though the firearm was made before 13 Sep 1994.. AS many know, CSP interpretation is different- that any pre-13 Sep 1994 firearm is a preban.