I'm posting this for the folks that are not members of the VCDL (but should be).  

VCDL tries to stay within the bounds of Virginia as much as possible. However, once in a while, we have to deal with the fact that we are Americans above all else.  Our fellow citizens matter to us and sometimes events require that we cast our eyes, our anger, and our influence elsewhere in this nation. And so we shall. I am ex-law enforcement and have a soft spot for police, most of who do their jobs with great honor. However, there are some who make me ashamed.  At the top of that list are the Chief of Police of New Orleans and the brass who work for him.  They should all be fired for ordering their officers to disarm all remaining citizens in New Orleans (many of whom are in dry areas and do not want to leave everything they have left in the world to go live in a shelter somewhere).  At a time when self-defense is critical, they want only the police to have guns. I also call for the resignations of the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana, who either actively supported this effort or are allowing it to continue unchecked.  I consider them both to be buffoons and derelict of their duties. The hypocrisy and cowardice of the police and federal officers involved in this are breathtaking.   According to statements by the New Orleans police, the police are doing this for THEIR safety.  What about the safety of the citizens they have sworn to protect?  What kind of police put their own safety above the safety of innocent lives?  Where are those brave men and women who charge into danger to protect lives, not run the other way or actively endanger people who are already victims? Even if you disregard the extreme danger from vicious criminals that are always present, there are other dangers.  Dogs are starving on rooftops.  At some point, as the water recedes, those dogs are going to come down, form packs, and try to survive in whatever way they can.  Diseases, like rabies, are going to make those dogs and other animals very dangerous.  There are alligators in the area as well. I give no slack to those police officers who are actually enforcing this disarmament.  In my eyes they are acting no better than thugs themselves.  No police officer or military soldier has a duty to obey an unlawful or unconstitutional order.  And they certainly don't have a right to endanger citizens. This is America and if someone wants to stay in their house, then they have a right to be able to do so, even if that decision could be hazardous to their health.  People jump out of perfectly good airplanes with a parachute on their backs.  That, too, could be hazardous to their health.  But it is their right to do so and but they must accept the consequences if things go wrong.  That's called being free.  Both the third-world city of New Orleans and the U.S. Marshals have overstepped their boundaries. WHAT CAN WE DO?  Part I We can contact Senators Allen and Warner ask them to publicly condemn New Orleans' actions.  They can also DEMAND that any and all federal employees immediately desist in collaborating with the New Orleans Police Department in disarming the public. Senator George Allen: 202-224-4024 http://allen.senate.gov/index.cfm?c=email&which=Standard Senator John Warner: 202-224-2023 http://warner.senate.gov/contact/contactme.htm Suggested message: Dear Senator, I am furious!  I ask that you publicly condemn New Orleans' actions to disarm its citizens at a time when those citizens need to have protection the most. According to a Washington Post article United States Marshals are participating in this activity!  That is outrageous.  The story documents US Marshals pointing their rifles at a 55 year old woman and disarming her. This is the America.  A law-abiding citizen should never be treated this way by any level of government, especially when that person fears for their safety.  Even those with permits to carry concealed weapons, the most law-abiding group of people in this country, are being disarmed! I am counting upon you to see that these actions stop and that all federal officers, military, and federal employees cease and desist from civilian disarmament. Please let me know what you are going to do. Sincerely, [NAME] [ADDRESS] -- WHAT CAN WE DO?  Part II I challenge those of you with research skills to find out if there are any provisions for local or state government to disarm us in Virginia in the event of a similar crisis or disaster, and let me know so we can take action now. -- I have been flooded by members with links to stories on the New Orleans disarmament.  Here is the one from the Washington Post: http://tinyurl.com/7f4ft Troops Escalate Urgency of Evacuation By Timothy Dwyer and Ann Scott Tyson Washington Post Staff Writers Friday, September 9, 2005; A01 NEW ORLEANS, Sept. 8 -- Outside Kajun's Pub, between the relatively dry French Quarter and the heavily flooded Ninth Ward, bar owner JoAnn Guidos loaded up her 1991 Ford Econoline van with clothing, liquor and other necessities Thursday morning. After holding out for 10 days, Guidos and her friends were finally leaving New Orleans and heading to high ground. ... But on Wednesday night, Guidos said, armed federal agents identifying themselves as U.S. marshals confiscated her weapons and ordered her and six friends to leave by noon Thursday. "When you get 15 M-16s pointed at you and they line you up against the wall, it's kind of scary," said Guidos, 55. With floodwaters continuing to recede and cleanup efforts beginning in earnest, police and the military set out on an aggressive door-to-door campaign here Thursday, urging remaining residents to leave or be removed by force. ... P. Edwin Compass, the superintendent of police, said there are thousands of people remaining in the city but that authorities are determined to get everyone out. He said as little force as necessary would be used but that staying is not an option. Anyone with a weapon, even one legally registered, will have it confiscated, he said. "No one will be able to be armed," Compass said. "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns." -- Here is an article where the police and MILITARY disarmed citizens because citizens might become 'jittery.'  Sounds like the police are the ones who are jittery.  Perhaps, they should be disarmed, too, using their own logic.  What kind of low-life police and military would disarm a law-abiding citizen who is trying to protect himself or herself from being looted or killed? And when are people like Officer Riley going to become adults and finally realize that they CANNOT disarm all the criminals!  And don't get me going on some of the photos showing New Orleans police in the act of looting, either. http://apnews.excite.com/article/20050909/D8CGQ5DO5.html ... Police and soldiers seized numerous guns for fear of confrontations with jittery residents who have armed themselves against looters. "No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons," Riley said. On Thursday, in the city's well-to-do Lower Garden District, a neighborhood with many antebellum mansions, members of the Oklahoma National Guard seized weapons from the inhabitants of one home. Those who were armed were handcuffed and briefly detained before being let go.

This action by the City of New Orleans is indeed terribly disturbing and warrants both our concern and action, but I would submit that poorly written irrational rhetoric filled with sophomoric outrage and name calling is counterproductive.

Kneejerk reactions like this only further serve the notion that we are a bunch of "Gun Nuts."  What might be considered a more dangerous threat by much of our society, me included, than an armed zealot who is prone to fury?  

I would suggest the VCDL membership consider appointing a more polished spokesperson, among other things.  The suggested message to our Senators is embarassing, at best.  I'd wager with great certainly that most of us are capable of crafting our own thoughts in a much more cogent manner, and without all of the speculation.

And for what it's worth, I sincerely doubt that Senator Warner gives a tinkers damn what you or I think about this or any other matter.

All of that aside, we should certainly voice our concerns, jointly and individually, and work towards having those voices heard.

IMHO, YMMV

Just out of curiosity, are you a member of the VCDL?

I'm learning the Constitution only applies when times are good. When the gov't has a serious challenge to deal with (i.e. terrorism, natural disaster) it can make new rules in order to better protect it's citizens subjects.

Quoted: This action by the City of New Orleans is indeed terribly disturbing and warrants both our concern and action, but I would submit that poorly written irrational rhetoric filled with sophomoric outrage and name calling is counterproductive. Kneejerk reactions like this only further serve the notion that we are a bunch of "Gun Nuts."  What might be considered a more dangerous threat by much of our society, me included, than an armed zealot who is prone to fury?   I would suggest the VCDL membership consider appointing a more polished spokesperson, among other things.  The suggested message to our Senators is embarassing, at best.  I'd wager with great certainly that most of us are capable of crafting our own thoughts in a much more cogent manner, and without all of the speculation. And for what it's worth, I sincerely doubt that Senator Warner gives a tinkers damn what you or I think about this or any other matter. All of that aside, we should certainly voice our concerns, jointly and individually, and work towards having those voices heard. IMHO, YMMV

Mr. Van Cleave said it rather WELL IMO, and we are fortunate to have him.

Strong actions call for strong words.

Quoted: This action by the City of New Orleans is indeed terribly disturbing and warrants both our concernand action, but I would submit that poorly written irrational rhetoric filled with sophomoric outrage and name calling is counterproductive. I don't see any name calling and the e-mail expressed my feelings better than I probably could have put it.  I am outraged but not a sophomore, I am a senior. Kneejerk reactions like this only further serve the notion that we are a bunch of "Gun Nuts."  What might be considered a more dangerous threat by much of our society, me included, than an armed zealot who is prone to fury? Kneejerk?  Gun Nuts?  armed zealot?  For protesting a wrong?  We are not advocating an armed march on City Hall. I would suggest the VCDL membership consider appointing a more polished spokesperson, among other things.  The suggested message to our Senators is embarassing, at best.  I'd wager with great certainly that most of us are capable of crafting our own thoughts in a much more cogent manner, and without all of the speculation. I am a VCDL member and I think VanCleave is a more than adequate spokesman and well advised by people more intelligent than I am.  What could be embarassing to the Senators?  We are asking them to do whatever they can to stop this gun grabbing.  If you can express your thoughts better, please do.  But express them. And for what it's worth, I sincerely doubt that Senator Warner gives a tinkers damn what you or I think about this or any other matter. I believe he will care if he hears from enough of us or be out of a job.  I base my vote on their support of the Constitution and Bill of Rights among other things. All of that aside, we should certainly voice our concerns, jointly and individually, and work towards having those voices heard. I support the VCDL in its many battles for our rights.  It is a true grass roots organization as I believe the NRA started out.  Unfortunately at this time about all I can do is participate in the e-mail campaigns. IMHO, YMMV I respect your opinion and whole heartedly agree with your last sentence, this is the way I chose to have my voice heard.

Quoted: Just out of curiosity, are you a member of the VCDL?

No I'm not a member of the VCDL, and I've no plan to join.  I don't look good in fatigues anymore either, though I did cut quite the dashing figure back in the day...

To the other posters:

I've no issue with the VCDL mission as I understand it, simply the approach they have chosen to address this issue.  My point was and remains that there is no reason to foresake civility or to armchair quarterback this situation.  I subscribe to the perhaps trite notion that it's best to keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, as the debate goes not to the loudest but to the best prepared.  

I saw no strong words, rather, I envisioned a child holding his breath in hopes someone would notice.  The outrage card is too often played by those we generally find ourselves in disagreement with - like Kennedy, Sharpton and their ilk.  They too are an embarassment.  Tell me if you you see that any differently...

TIA, again, YMMV...

Quoted: Quoted: Just out of curiosity, are you a member of the VCDL? No I'm not a member of the VCDL, and I've no plan to join.  I don't look good in fatigues anymore either, though I did cut quite the dashing figure back in the day... To the other posters: I've no issue with the VCDL mission as I understand it, simply the approach they have chosen to address this issue.  My point was and remains that there is no reason to foresake civility or to armchair quarterback this situation.  I subscribe to the perhaps trite notion that it's best to keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, as the debate goes not to the loudest but to the best prepared.   I saw no strong words, rather, I envisioned a child holding his breath in hopes someone would notice.  The outrage card is too often played by those we generally find ourselves in disagreement with - like Kennedy, Sharpton and their ilk.  They too are an embarassment.  Tell me if you you see that any differently... TIA, again, YMMV...

Yes I do see that differently.

Okay so what WOULD you do? I hear alot of naysaying from you about the premiere grassroots gunrights organization in our Commonwealth.

Where is YOUR letter to our congresscritters?

Who did YOU call to ask for accountability?

Don't like the way the VCDL runs things? Then join up and change it, because by sitting on the sidelines and throwing spitballs you are part of the problem, not the solution.

Quoted: Quoted: Just out of curiosity, are you a member of the VCDL? No I'm not a member of the VCDL, and I've no plan to join.  I don't look good in fatigues anymore either, though I did cut quite the dashing figure back in the day... To the other posters: I've no issue with the VCDL mission as I understand it, simply the approach they have chosen to address this issue.  My point was and remains that there is no reason to foresake civility or to armchair quarterback this situation.  I subscribe to the perhaps trite notion that it's best to keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, as the debate goes not to the loudest but to the best prepared.   I saw no strong words, rather, I envisioned a child holding his breath in hopes someone would notice.  The outrage card is too often played by those we generally find ourselves in disagreement with - like Kennedy, Sharpton and their ilk.  They too are an embarassment.  Tell me if you you see that any differently... TIA, again, YMMV...

This guy can't be serious?

Quoted: Quoted: This guy can't be serious? Just because he doesn't agree with us, doesn't mean that we shouldn't act civily. Take this opportunity to educate him on the VCDL and what they have to offer.

Thank you.  Frankly, you have hit my premise right on the head.

Actually, I don't disagree with the fundamentals behind the issue, again, I simply disagree with the way the organization chose to phrase their response.

I appreciate your insight...

Quoted: Quoted: his Just because he doesn't agree with us, doesn't mean that we shouldn't act civily. Take this opportunity to educate him on the VCDL and what they have to offer.

Perhaps the poster(s) and others,would like to check out the website--WWW.VCDL.org.  I have not seen any photos from the activities of anyone from VCDL wearing fatigues or even much camo.    That would be a bit extreme for me also.  I do usually carry a pistol.  Remember, if you don't vote don't bi   uh, er complain

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just out of curiosity, are you a member of the VCDL? No I'm not a member of the VCDL, and I've no plan to join.  I don't look good in fatigues anymore either, though I did cut quite the dashing figure back in the day... To the other posters: I've no issue with the VCDL mission as I understand it, simply the approach they have chosen to address this issue.  My point was and remains that there is no reason to foresake civility or to armchair quarterback this situation.  I subscribe to the perhaps trite notion that it's best to keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, as the debate goes not to the loudest but to the best prepared.   I saw no strong words, rather, I envisioned a child holding his breath in hopes someone would notice.  The outrage card is too often played by those we generally find ourselves in disagreement with - like Kennedy, Sharpton and their ilk.  They too are an embarassment.  Tell me if you you see that any differently... TIA, again, YMMV... Yes I do see that differently. Okay so what WOULD you do? I hear alot of naysaying from you about the premiere grassroots gunrights organization in our Commonwealth. Where is YOUR letter to our congresscritters? Who did YOU call to ask for accountability? Don't like the way the VCDL runs things? Then join up and change it, because by sitting on the sidelines and throwing spitballs you are part of the problem, not the solution.

Sorry - I'm not much of a joiner, and again, you have read my message wrong, but then we've already been over that topic.  As to your question regarding my thoughts, my words and my actions, personally, I find this more appropriate:

Dear Senator Allen:

As you must know, despite the denial that a state of Marshall Law exists, the civil authorities in New Orleans, Louisiana have reportedly undertaken to forcibly disarm their law abiding residents.  Further, it is my understanding that Federal and perhaps even foreign government entities have been enlisted to assist the City in this mission.

This extreme measure shakes the very foundation our Democracy, and conjures comparisons to the police states that we as a nation deplore.  

I would ask that you and every member of Congress publicly denounce this action, and as a body, take the necessary steps to immediately restore the inalienable rights granted to every American citizen.

Thank you for your service to this great nation and to the Commonwealth, and for your immediate attention to this important matter.

Very truly yours,

XXXX XXXXXX

Again, YMMV

Quoted: This action by the City of New Orleans is indeed terribly disturbing and warrants both our concern and action, but I would submit that poorly written irrational rhetoric filled with sophomoric outrage and name calling is counterproductive. Kneejerk reactions like this only further serve the notion that we are a bunch of "Gun Nuts."  What might be considered a more dangerous threat by much of our society, me included, than an armed zealot who is prone to fury?   I would suggest the VCDL membership consider appointing a more polished spokesperson, among other things.  The suggested message to our Senators is embarassing, at best.  I'd wager with great certainly that most of us are capable of crafting our own thoughts in a much more cogent manner, and without all of the speculation. And for what it's worth, I sincerely doubt that Senator Warner gives a tinkers damn what you or I think about this or any other matter. All of that aside, we should certainly voice our concerns, jointly and individually, and work towards having those voices heard. IMHO, YMMV

Several hundred years ago, there was another group of folks who were labeled "zealots" for resisting their government's taxation practices.  Today we have them to thank for all our freedoms.  Samuel Adams used the same sort of fiery rhetoric to rally people to his cause.  

I think Mr. Van Cleave highlights a very important point here.  It didn't take much for the local government to strip innocent American citizens of their civil rights.  What's worse is that the Federal government is now complicit in enforcing this egregious act.  What's to say this doesn't happen in our area?  If we don't show our outrage now, then we are silently compromising our own rights should this sort of event ever happen in our area.

This confiscation establishes a precedent and if it is not strongly defeated now, then it just emboldens those who seek to destroy the 2nd Amendment to do it again and again every time they see an opportune moment.

Quoted: Quoted: This guy can't be serious? Just because he doesn't agree with us, doesn't mean that we shouldn't act civily. Take this opportunity to educate him on the VCDL and what they have to offer.

Oh, I thought he was just screwing around and trolling...I take it he's serious?  I have a hard time believing that someone who tries to articulate himself so well would judge a group of people as fatigues wearers and be so quick to insult us because we are members of the VCDL, which he seems to know so little about.  

Seems like a hypocritical thing to do, that’s all.

He can disagree all he wants but when he started slinging insults he lost all creditability.

Here is what I sent to Senator Allen:

Dear Senator Allen, As a staunch defender of our Second Amendment rights, I hope you share my outrage over the gun confiscation that is occurring in New Orleans.  Innocent Americans are being stripped of their most basic human right of self defense at a time when they need it most.  I view this as an egregious and unconstitutional act that shocks and scares me.   Equally egregious in all of this is that in some instances the Federal government is complicit in the act.  I believe that the Federal government has a duty to ensure that ALL Americans' basic Constitutional rights are protected, especially during times of crisis.  I am confident that you share my beliefs as well. Please use your position in the United States Senate to end this unconstitutional confiscation policy.  Also, please enlist the help of your colleagues in the House and Senate to pass legislation that ensures that innocent Americans are not deprived of their Constitutional rights during times of crisis.  Thank you for your continued leadership. Respectfully, XXXXXXXXX

My letter to Senator Warner excluded the part about "staunch defender of our Second Amendment rights" for obvious reasons.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This guy can't be serious? Just because he doesn't agree with us, doesn't mean that we shouldn't act civily. Take this opportunity to educate him on the VCDL and what they have to offer. Thank you.  Frankly, you have hit my premise right on the head. Actually, I don't disagree with the fundamentals behind the issue, again, I simply disagree with the way the organization chose to phrase their response. I appreciate your insight...

If you were being serious in your previous post then I apologize for thinking you were trolling.  However, I find it odd that you express yourself in an articulate manor yet stereotype the VCDL and it's members.

Would you care to explain how you came to the conclusion that we all wear fatigues, why you think the VCDL forsakes civility and why you think the VCDL is just an armchair quarterback?  Something, at some point in time must have given you these impressions.  Would you care to share them?

Has anyone received a reply from Allen, Warner or their respective Congressman?

Has anyone actually been able to get a breathing being on the line at any of their field offices.

I have e-mailed and called all week (since Wednesday) in respect to the gun confiscation and in reference to the rescue effort since Friday before last.  The responce I have received from Allen, Warner and Moran thus far has been..............



(crickets chirping)





............These people seem to be AWOL.  However, the LA Goverenors office, and LA Sen. Landrau (sp) are answering their phones and are replying to people who aren't even constituants.

Where the hell are the representatives of Virginia?

For those considering using snail mail - It ain't gonna work.  Might get to their office sometime around 2008 after its been sniffed by every federal official in DC first.

Dear Senator Allen: As you must know, despite the denial that a state of Marshall Law exists, the civil authorities in New Orleans, Louisiana have reportedly undertaken to forcibly disarm their law abiding residents.  Further, it is my understanding that Federal and perhaps even foreign government entities have been enlisted to assist the City in this mission. This extreme measure shakes the very foundation our Democracy, and conjures comparisons to the police states that we as a nation deplore.   I would ask that you and every member of Congress publicly denounce this action, and as a body, take the necessary steps to immediately restore the inalienable rights granted to every American citizen. Thank you for your service to this great nation and to the Commonwealth, and for your immediate attention to this important matter. Very truly yours, XXXX XXXXXX

Please spell martial correctly if you're going to write to a senator...

Quoted: Quoted: Oh, I thought he was just screwing around and trolling...I take it he's serious?  I have a hard time believing that someone who tries to articulate himself so well would judge a group of people as fatigues wearers and be so quick to insult us because we are members of the VCDL, which he seems to know so little about.   Seems like a hypocritical thing to do, that’s all. He can disagree all he wants but when he started slinging insults he lost all creditability. This is why I asked if he was confusing the VCDL and the VDF because the VDF wears camo at the gunshows and stuff. I met quite a few people at the Richmond shows while working the VCDL booth, that sound the same. They are the type person who has be conditioned by the media to think any gun group and it's members are nothing but right wing extremist militia types. Because of this, they refuse to join any RKBA organization out of fear. They are terrified of being labeled a gun nut, or extremist, or zealot. So they won't join any group of gun owners, and they try to make themselves sound moderate or middle of the road. These are types that normally will allow some gun restrictions because they want too compromise in an attempt too look open minded. I've met a lot of people like that up in NY, and NJ. Sadly most of them don't realize they should of spoke up, until it's too late. Now I don't know if VAroadking is really this way or not, but his posts have given me this impression. I learned long ago that you shouldn't get mad or upset by it. Take the time to show this type person that we are all on the same side. We aren't out to overthrow the government, we have families, jobs, and are pretty normal people.

Great point Anthony and I apologized and offered him the opportunity to share how he has come to form that opinion/impression.  I wasn't mad or upset; I thought someone was just having fun (like we do with Ed) or trolling.  Like I said earlier it didn't seem possible that after his well thought out first post he would quickly stereotype and judge individuals based solely on them being a member of a group like the VCDL.

I only asked if he was a member so I didn’t expect the insults to come from such a simple question.  If he had followed my question up with a simple “no” and the reasons why we could have begun an open discussion but…

I'm not aware of this VDF group so I couldn't make that connection, if that turns out to be the case.

Quoted: I'm posting this for the folks that are not members of the VCDL (but should be). . . .

I have been troubled by what I've read about the N.O. government's confiscation of weapons.  The statements attributed to the officials with N.O.P.D are disturbing.  I have to ask you, though, what do we really know about N.O.'s actions.  Importantly, what are the legal bases for their actions?

No right (save, perhaps, the right of females under 18 to have abortions) is absolute.  When sufficient grounds exist under limited circumstances, the government can take your property, restrict your movement, and limit your speech.  

Does anyone question the legitimate safety concerns of federal, state, and local officials and military personnel on-site in N.O.?  Does anyone here doubt that the local government in N.O., under the right factual circumstances, need to shut down the city, cordon it off, secure it, and remove any unauthorized persons from the area?  Frankly, I don't know if sufficient facts and legal authority exist for N.O. to do the things it has done, but before I went on a crusade against their actions, I would want to find out.  The town, at least in most areas, seems uninhabitable.  People were, and are, free to leave the city using their own vehicles.  I have yet to hear of vehicles on their way out of town being searched and weapons seized.

The bottom line here is: Get the facts before launching any attacks on N.O.  It will save future embarassment and strengthen your position.  I don't think N.O. is legally justified in its actions, but it might be.  Until I know, I'm unwilling to move forward with letters and calls to the right officials.

Finally, before you ask, I am not a member of VCDL.  If you question my support of the Second Amendment, I would be happy to speak with you off-line and I am confident that my efforts in support of the Second Amendment equal those of anyone else on this forum.

Here is an interesting article on the likely authority for Louisiana: Heritage Foundation.

And here is Louisiana's statute on emergency preparedness.

Thanks for the thread Marc.

I've e-mailed Allen, Warner, and President Bush, but have yet to get any replies.

BTW, I am a proud member of VCDL.  They are known and respected in the Virginia legislature, and are very, very effective.

varoadking

Phil is a pretty good spokesman in my opinion.   When we started NVCDL back in 94 it was guys like you who sat on their hands doing nothing because they said we would never get concealed carry reform passed. We were called us a bunch of loudmouthed radicals from NoVA. Probably true as I am a loud mouth and it was a radical idea that we could turn VA around and pass pro-gun rights bills.  

If you aren't outraged when they seize guns in New Orleans you probably shouldn't own an evil black rifle.  Politicians will pay far more attention to hundreds of scrawled inarticulate communications then they will to a non-existant letter from you.

As Edmund Burke stated "‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."  

Quoted: This action by the City of New Orleans is indeed terribly disturbing and warrants both our concern and action, but I would submit that poorly written irrational rhetoric filled with sophomoric outrage and name calling is counterproductive. Kneejerk reactions like this only further serve the notion that we are a bunch of "Gun Nuts."  What might be considered a more dangerous threat by much of our society, me included, than an armed zealot who is prone to fury?   I would suggest the VCDL membership consider appointing a more polished spokesperson, among other things.  The suggested message to our Senators is embarassing, at best.  I'd wager with great certainly that most of us are capable of crafting our own thoughts in a much more cogent manner, and without all of the speculation. And for what it's worth, I sincerely doubt that Senator Warner gives a tinkers damn what you or I think about this or any other matter. All of that aside, we should certainly voice our concerns, jointly and individually, and work towards having those voices heard. IMHO, YMMV