www.jsonline.com/news/racine/aug03/165651.asp
Measure would oppose concealed arms
Racine resolution may be first to precede passage of law on carrying hidden weapons
By TOM KERTSCHER
[email protected]
Last Updated: Aug. 28, 2003
Racine - Conceding they are on the defensive, opponents of a bill that would liberalize the carrying of concealed weapons launched a campaign Thursday that includes what might be a first-of-its-kind action by a city council.

Backers of the bill, meanwhile, said they are certain it will pass the Legislature and be presented to Gov. Jim Doyle in October. They also said support will grow as people learn how so-called concealed-carry laws have existed in 44 states without causing gun violence.

"None of the bogyman stories have come true," said Richard Baker, treasurer of the Greenfield-based Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association.

"At this point," he said, "it's kind of like having this huge debate over issuing people driver's licenses and having them go out on the road."

Racine Ald. Pete Karas, in announcing that the Racine Common Council is poised to approve his resolution opposing the so-called Personal Protection Act, agreed that the bill should easily pass the state Assembly and Senate. The first public hearing on the bill is set for Sept. 9 in Madison.

But Karas said he hopes the Racine resolution will spur other cities to take similar action and encourage citizens to express opposition to the bill. He said that will be important if the bill gets approved by the Legislature and vetoed by Doyle and then the Legislature tries to override the veto.

Doyle has said he is against concealed-carry legislation.

"A lot of times, these bills get passed under the radar screen," Karas said. "People don't understand exactly what they mean, and then once they're enacted and people realize what they actually do, then municipalities and concerned citizens take action. This is a situation where we'd like to head it off before it passes."

Local governments routinely send resolutions to the Legislature to express opinions on issues. And cities in states that allow residents to carry concealed weapons have moved to restrict the law after it took effect.

But spokesmen for two Washington-based gun-control organizations - the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence - said they knew of no U.S. city that had expressed formal opposition to concealed-carry legislation before it became law.

Racine 'ahead of the curve'
"This is the first time that I know of a city that got ahead of the curve," Khalid Pitts, state director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, said of the Racine resolution.

Under the Personal Protection Act, Wisconsin residents generally would be allowed - without need of a license - to carry concealed weapons in their homes and businesses.this just shows how much these people understand things, the PPA has nothing to do with this the state supreme court already said we have this right

In what is of much greater concern to opponents, the bill also would require county sheriffs to issue concealed-carry licenses to residents older than 21 who meet certain requirements. License holders could carry weapons almost anywhere that is not barred by the bill, such as taverns, schools and airports.

State Rep. Scott Gunderson (R-Norway), one of the bill's sponsors, acknowledged that polls have indicated opposition to concealed-carry laws among Wisconsin residents. But he said most people change their minds after learning that 44 states have similar laws and that Wisconsin would have strict requirements for getting a license.

"People shouldn't be afraid of law-abiding citizens," said Gunderson, who runs a Racine County store that sells firearms.

To obtain a concealed carry license in Wisconsin, applicants would have to pass a 22-hour weapons training course and a background check done by the county sheriff, Gunderson said.

The Racine resolution against the bill says a concealed-carry law is opposed by most Wisconsin residents, would endanger law enforcement officers and, in states where the law is in effect, is linked with more gun deaths.

Karas, a first-term alderman and leader of the Racine-Kenosha Green Party, said he would present the resolution Tuesday to the Racine Common Council. A vote likely will be taken Sept. 16, but eight of the 15 aldermen already have publicly supported the measure, he said.

From the Aug. 29, 2003 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

is there anything in the ppa that prevents cities from banning carry?

it'd be nice if it included an over ride of the attempted bans that cities and building owners will surely put up

i for one would like to be able to carry in miller park, and i pay fucking taxes to pay for the pos

On the aricle:




Off topic but:

Does anyone have a link to the proposed CCW law? I'd like to read it...

Quoted: On the aricle: Off topic but: Does anyone have a link to the proposed CCW law? I'd like to read it...

I believe there is a copy of it accessable from packing.org as well as on zien's(sp?) website.

Quoted: is there anything in the ppa that prevents cities from banning carry?[reds] No there is not, the only governing body that can make laws regarding carry and such is the legislature, the only thing a  municiplaity can do is outlaw discharge of a firearm with in their limits. it'd be nice if it included an over ride of the attempted bans that cities and building owners will surely put up i for one would like to be able to carry in miller park, and i pay fucking taxes to pay for the pos Ya so do I and I'm a Cubs fan. I've never set foot in Miller Park and have no plans to. Once county sadium was torn down my days of watching baseball in milwaukee were over. I spent that last season of CS's existance as an intern with the Brewers, I loved that run down POS stadium, a lot of great memories of that place.

I got into a debate about this resolution with a MMMer and used every stupid POS example she trew at me to break her arguments down. The bitch rudely gave a friend and i her unsolicited .02 at a resturant the other morning while we were having breakfast. And she did it in a rather loud way so people started looking so I kept it at her volume level and just let her have it. I started out by asking her if she had ever had the great displeasure of being the victim of an armmed robbery or other violent crime. She said no so i sujested she try it some time as she may like the feeling of total helplessness that she will feel, there is nothing like it in the world. She brough up the double homicide at the end of July as an example of why CCW is bad because it makes it easier for criminals to commit crimes. I pointed out that one, he was a convicted felon in possesion of a gun. Which is against the law to start with and means he did not legaly purchase his firearm. Two, It's against the law to CCW in public, another law he broke, three it's against the law to carry a gun into a tavern or business that recieves more than 50% of it's revenue from the sale of alcohol, which a bar does. So he knowingly broke several laws which shows that he has no regard for the law, and will CCW no matter if he does it leagly or not. I also mentioned how her using a criminal as an example of why allowing law abiding citizens should not be allowed to CCW was piss poor, because criminals are by their very nature not law abiding. I than went on to point out that had the bartender had any training in the use of a firearm and had one behind the bar or concealed on her person(she could have as this was after the CCW decision by the state supreme court) than maybe just maybe those two men would not have been executed and the bartender not severly wounded, as she could have defended herself and the two patrons of the bar fgrom a predetory criminal who has show he has no regard for the law. I actually had a couple people come up to me and say they never though about it like that, or that they agreed with me. It felt good to rip that bitch a new one, and to do it in a very civil way in a public place.

Quoted: I got into a debate about this resolution with a MMMer and used every stupid POS example she trew at me to break her arguments down. The bitch rudely gave a friend and i her unsolicited .02 at a resturant the other morning while we were having breakfast. And she did it in a rather loud way so people started looking so I kept it at her volume level and just let her have it. I started out by asking her if she had ever had the great displeasure of being the victim of an armmed robbery or other violent crime. She said no so i sujested she try it some time as she may like the feeling of total helplessness that she will feel, there is nothing like it in the world. She brough up the double homicide at the end of July as an example of why CCW is bad because it makes it easier for criminals to commit crimes. I pointed out that one, he was a convicted felon in possesion of a gun. Which is against the law to start with and means he did not legaly purchase his firearm. Two, It's against the law to CCW in public, another law he broke, three it's against the law to carry a gun into a tavern or business that recieves more than 50% of it's revenue from the sale of alcohol, which a bar does. So he knowingly broke several laws which shows that he has no regard for the law, and will CCW no matter if he does it leagly or not. I also mentioned how her using a criminal as an example of why allowing law abiding citizens should not be allowed to CCW was piss poor, because criminals are by their very nature not law abiding. I than went on to point out that had the bartender had any training in the use of a firearm and had one behind the bar or concealed on her person(she could have as this was after the CCW decision by the state supreme court) than maybe just maybe those two men would not have been executed and the bartender not severly wounded, as she could have defended herself and the two patrons of the bar fgrom a predetory criminal who has show he has no regard for the law. I actually had a couple people come up to me and say they never though about it like that, or that they agreed with me. It felt good to rip that bitch a new one, and to do it in a very civil way in a public place.

Sweet!

btw, doesn't WI have a law in place that prevents local municipalities (sp) from enacting tougher laws than at the state level?

Nice work, photoman!

ARndog- yes all firearms laws in this state are state laws. No city or municipality can make a law outlawing the possession or ownership of a gun, they can not say where you can and can not carry them. You can thank former Gov. and current HHS Sec. Tommy Thompson for that. He signed that bill in i believe 1995. It was incidently the same bill that said open carry was perfectly legal. The only thing a local government can do is outlaw the discharge of a firearm within their limits.
* thats how i understand the law to be. Thats how it was explained to me. I'm not a lawyer, and i didn't stay at a holiday inn express last night, I'm just a gun nut who tries his best to know his rights.

got a call into the "weber and dolan" radio show about this this morning


the calls that got in were overwhelmingly in support of the law, with a lot of good points made