I've been thinking a long time about this, and really want to open up my own gunshop here in the frontrange somewhere.  I've taken steps to acquire an FFL license, so I'm on the track already, but selling online and opening a shop are two different stories.

Anyhow...onto putting my feelers out.

I'm a friendly and patient guy who was born & raised here in Denver.  I have a CCP permit and knowledgeable about self-defense type firearms.  Weapons would be primarily handguns and SA rifles.  Hunting equipment may be something on the side, but defense and such would be the primary focus.

Would folks be willing to visit a new vendor in the city, maybe for competetive prices, friendlier atmosphere...etc...?  What about you?

Thanks.

The more local places we can give money to, the better, I think!

I would, if you specilized in a few things and brought in quality products.

Definatly would buy local.

Where are you thinking of locating your business?

I drive north 35-45min. to jensens.  If there was a place closer and it was approx. the same pricing (+/- $5-20 for a gun)  I would shop there.  Also, I have friends and family in Denver, so I'm down there often.

Might be wise to see what the political enviroment is in the upcoming few months before you take the plunge.

I think there has been at least 20 stores that have shut down because of competition from Bass Pro, Sportsman's, Gander, and Walmart in the past 2 - 5 years.  Cabela's will be adding to that competition soon (they ran out of money while building their store in Golden but it will be there in the next year or so).

I've seen the same happen to at least 8 local fishing stores.

...in fact, I know a couple of previous owners of stores that are working for these places.

My thoughts....unless you can distinguish yourself, good luck (in a sarcastic way).

You need to find a niche or a service that the big box stores can't provide and you need to do it in a way that is profitable.  That's the bottom line and unfortunately, there is no easy answer.  I've thought about it for a couple years and with relation to a gun store, the ONLY way you are going to survive is to gain a reputation for being a heck of a gunsmith.  Good, friendly gunsmiths are in big demand.  Most commercial places are scheduling work 6 - 8 weeks out and the guys that are specialists and have a reputation are scheduling work out over a year.

^^^True, The Ready Room only lasted a month...

Quoted: You need to find a niche or a service that the big box stores can't provide and you need to do it in a way that is profitable.  That's the bottom line and unfortunately, there is no easy answer.  I've thought about it for a couple years and with relation to a gun store, the ONLY way you are going to survive is to gain a reputation for being a heck of a gunsmith.  Good, friendly gunsmiths are in big demand.  Most commercial places are scheduling work 6 - 8 weeks out and the guys that are specialists and have a reputation are scheduling work out over a year.

This is a great recommendation.  Another thing I'd advise is to hire employees that aren't know-it-alls.  I've been in several gunshops the past couple years that I've walked out of because of employees that didn't understand personal preference in purchasing handguns.  They have all went under.  The ones that are still around are those that will offer their opinion only when asked and offer up plenty of backup to several different sources of information on handguns and ammo choices.  

Personally, I can't wait for The Firing Line in Aurora to go down.  That place is full of opinionated assholes that have lost that business a few thousand dollars from me because they couldn't keep their mouths shut.

To give you an idea, last year I wanted a long distance shooter in a Winchester Short Mag caliber.  I was looking at a 7WSM long distance shooter based on this article.  One of the best gunsmiths in the country to do long distance shooting guns is east of Greeley.  I called him, told him what I wanted, and asked for the price.

He told me straight out, he wasn't interested, but if I wanted a .308 on a Remington 700 action, he'd be happy to oblige.  Cost would be about $3,500 and it would be about 14 months before I saw the rifle.  Payment due up front.  I got some similar responses around the country (the place that is referenced in the article told me at the time 10 months out).

I ended up piecing one together myself on a Savage action.  I also pieced another one together in .300 WSM on a Remington action.

That's the kind of business you want - you name your price and you work on your terms.  The barrel I put on the Savage - took me 7 months to get.  The other option was also 7 months out.  Both would charge my credit card the minute I placed the order.

Good luck!

Tough business, you are buying guns from the major dealers for what Wal-Mart used to sell them for. (Luckily Wal-Mart is getting out of that business.

Also looked into insurance?

Speaking for me, I want military style guns I can't find at the big box stores. I want cheap ammo, major calibres, and I would like some simple gunsmithing, including boresighting and installing night sights.

Good luck, always nice to have another local shop.

And remember, you best advertizing will be word of mouth. I am the "gun guy" at my workplace, and
when people are looking for a good place to go, I will recommend the stores that treat me right.

Where were you thinking about setting up?

Honestly, I cant see why anyone would go through the hassel.

With the internet, big stores like bass pro etc....is there any real money to be made?

Thanks all for the responses.

We have been thinking about location, and not quite sure.  Our best options are Right in Old Morrison, up by Red Rocks.  Or, maybe up just west of Arvada.  We're trying to find a location that isn't held by another quality store yet.

As far as it being worth it...well, I am not looking to get rich.  I am not even looking to really make exactly what I make now at my everyday job.  But, what I do look forward to is freedom from pompous bosses of the ilk of what people have talked about here...know-it-alls, pompous, caneiving jerks.  I am a friendly, small-town-minded guy...I can't take the corporate world anymore.  It is making me sick.

As far as competition...well I don't really put it in my mind.  I don't want to stomp on the toes of another quality, small, family-owned shop though.  And the way I see it, the big stores are going under slowly.  Look at AIG, Fannie Mae, etc...  Even Cabella's lost their funding on their Colorado project.  The thing a small, friendly shop has over those stores is that the people care about their job and care about their customers.  The $9/hr employee at WalMart or Sportsman's doesn't care.  They don't get paid enough to care.  Sure, they may be friendly, but they won't remember your name 2 minutes after you've written your check and left the store.  And, places like Wal Mart...their inner-city stores are getting away from firearms, bigtime.  Besides that, the hardcore enthusiasts are generally put-off by Wal Mart and their practices.  From reading this site over the years, among others...people would rather shop at a small, trustworthy shop than at Wal Mart, even if they have to pay a bit more.

But, I will be new in this world and there will be a lot to learn.  I've always been a survivor, so hopefully I will have the stamina to last out the first little while when it will be hard-times.

Quoted: Thanks all for the responses. We have been thinking about location, and not quite sure.  Our best options are Right in Old Morrison, up by Red Rocks.  Or, maybe up just west of Arvada.  We're trying to find a location that isn't held by another quality store yet. As far as it being worth it...well, I am not looking to get rich.  I am not even looking to really make exactly what I make now at my everyday job.  But, what I do look forward to is freedom from pompous bosses of the ilk of what people have talked about here...know-it-alls, pompous, caneiving jerks.  I am a friendly, small-town-minded guy...I can't take the corporate world anymore.  It is making me sick. As far as competition...well I don't really put it in my mind.  I don't want to stomp on the toes of another quality, small, family-owned shop though.  And the way I see it, the big stores are going under slowly.  Look at AIG, Fannie Mae, etc...  Even Cabella's lost their funding on their Colorado project.  The thing a small, friendly shop has over those stores is that the people care about their job and care about their customers.  The $9/hr employee at WalMart or Sportsman's doesn't care.  They don't get paid enough to care.  Sure, they may be friendly, but they won't remember your name 2 minutes after you've written your check and left the store.  And, places like Wal Mart...their inner-city stores are getting away from firearms, bigtime.  Besides that, the hardcore enthusiasts are generally put-off by Wal Mart and their practices.  From reading this site over the years, among others...people would rather shop at a small, trustworthy shop than at Wal Mart, even if they have to pay a bit more. But, I will be new in this world and there will be a lot to learn.  I've always been a survivor, so hopefully I will have the stamina to last out the first little while when it will be hard-times.

I would suggest even though I live in Arvada to go the South East route or even to Thornton or even Littleton and maybe a dual partnership with Bowers Tactical or work inline with them in say Downtown Littleton or easy access off South Santa FE somewhere .  
The red highlighted areas have easy access to 5280 in Arvada(although limited hours) and Morrison has easy access to Green Mountain Guns.
YMMV and this is just my humble opinion on locations. Not much up North as far as a good gunshop, I have heard from a few that Jensens is becoming a "know-it-all" kind of atmosphere, so I refuse to go there on their experiences.

GM2

I like 5280, good folks, but limited hours of operation.  But, Green Mountain Guns?  I don't think I've met bigger "know-it-alls" than them.  Maybe my own personal experience, but...

I guess when I say worth it...do you have the cash to get a start up inventory?  To become a dealer some require a minimum amount to purchase.  That could be alot of cash tied up in inventory if things arent selling.

Plus dealing with folks that want a "deal".  As a new dealer you might not be able to buy wholesale at the same price another dealer can.  He can sell cheaper with the same profit margin that you wont be able to compete with.

I looked at opening a buisiness (not guns) a few years ago and this plus, rent, insurance etc.....but just didnt see a way to make it.

Quoted: I guess when I say worth it...do you have the cash to get a start up inventory?  To become a dealer some require a minimum amount to purchase.  That could be alot of cash tied up in inventory if things arent selling. Plus dealing with folks that want a "deal".  As a new dealer you might not be able to buy wholesale at the same price another dealer can.  He can sell cheaper with the same profit margin that you wont be able to compete with. I looked at opening a buisiness (not guns) a few years ago and this plus, rent, insurance etc.....but just didnt see a way to make it.

5280 is kinda getting that way with know it alls. I still think they are better then any of the other places i go to.

A good store needs to be open when customers can come in.  If you are only open 9-5 Monday to Saturday there are a lot of people who can't get there after work.  I worked in auto repair for 28 years and people do not like to be inconvenienced(sp?)  whatsoever.  Stay open late some nights,  maybe 8 or 9 o'clock depending on the area you are in. Any business starting up requires the owner/manger to basically live there anyway.  The paperwork is endless.
 
Be open on Sunday.  Maybe 10 to 5.  I like to go outside and do some errands on Sunday afternoon and would stop by the gunshop just to look around.

Don't rape your customers on prices.  If I can buy it online with shipping or other considerations cheaper than I can get it at a store I will.  They will deliver to my door.

Be competive with the Internet on Special Orders.   Get set up with a few distributers and use them as much as possible.  Don't stock up on overpriced stuff that doesn't sell.

Do the background check/transfer(edit to add a better word) for a reasonable fee.  I don't know what the setup cost is for this but some people are way over priced.  They want to pay for the laptop in one month.

Do some loss leader stuff.  Blow out some ammo once a month.   Get customers in the door.

Don't be a PITA with returns and warranties.  Things happen.  If you get familar with the warranty procedures it is not a big deal.  I worked at a motorcycle shop and was doing warranties.  I called Suzuki about a $200 warranty part and they told me that I didn't have to call on anything less than $300.  They wanted the the customer goodwill.
Polaris warranty would not answer the phone.  I went ahead and warrantied almost every thing.

If you make a special deal put it in writing.  Make sure that you know what you said and make sure the customer has a copy so they know what it is.  Customers do not remember anything.  They won't even get a name of a salesman or partsman.

Be patient with all the customers.  If you have a bad attitude or are condesending I am leaving.  Treat everyone with respect.  Women customers usually have control of the finances in the family.  Answer their questions.  Explain things.  Don't sell them things they won't want to use because it is way too powerful.  Look them in the eyes not the chest.

Word of mouth is the best and cheapest advertising.

Well I'm blathering on and on.  So this is my 3 cents worth.

Do the background check for a reasonable fee


who charges for BG checks in their store???
transfers i can understand a fee for, but BG checks

I edited my post to add "transfer".  The right word would not come to mind at the first preview.

These are my suggestions to a shop based on places I have worked for and have done business with.

Don't rape your customers on prices. If I can buy it online with shipping or other considerations cheaper than I can get it at a store I will. They will deliver to my door.

Your online dealer needs an address that BATFE will accept on an FFL application, an account with UPS or FedEx, and a guy who will sit around in his pajamas who will sign for deliveries, do paperwork, and hand a bunch of boxes to the guy in a brown truck once a day.

He doesn't need to worry about maintaining enough variety in his stock to keep the walk-in crowd happy, paying rent on commercial storefront property, keeping regular hours, hiring people who can keep regular hours in order to deal with the walk-ins that online dealers don't get (and who don't dispense gun-store 'wisdom'), keep shelves stacked with Boresnakes and Shooter's Choice and the other non-gun stuff that probably makes up half of the gross, etc,

That's why the Front Range has 3 million people and about the only gun stores left that are worth a damn are Jensen's, 5280, Green Mountain, and Academy.  And maybe something in Pueblo, I don't get that far south very often, and sometimes I don't know about Academy.

Quoted: Don't rape your customers on prices. If I can buy it online with shipping or other considerations cheaper than I can get it at a store I will. They will deliver to my door. Your online dealer needs an address that BATFE will accept on an FFL application, an account with UPS or FedEx, and a guy who will sit around in his pajamas who will sign for deliveries, do paperwork, and hand a bunch of boxes to the guy in a brown truck once a day. He doesn't need to worry about maintaining enough variety in his stock to keep the walk-in crowd happy, paying rent on commercial storefront property, keeping regular hours, hiring people who can keep regular hours in order to deal with the walk-ins that online dealers don't get (and who don't dispense gun-store 'wisdom'), keep shelves stacked with Boresnakes and Shooter's Choice and the other non-gun stuff that probably makes up half of the gross, etc, That's why the Front Range has 3 million people and about the only gun stores left that are worth a damn are Jensen's, 5280, Green Mountain, and Academy.  And maybe something in Pueblo, I don't get that far south very often, and sometimes I don't know about Academy.

From what I have seen so far, admittedly not for very long, Rocky Mountain Shooter's Supply, in Ft. Collins, does things the right way. Not the cheapest place in town, but a couple of very knowledgeable and helpful guys, an on-site range, and a good inventory of weapons. They will be the first to tell you that they are not the best ammo source in town, but they have, or had (I'm not quite sure) a great gunsmith and talk straight.

Just my .02.

I've only been here less than 2 months.

I would frequent any gun shop that gives me a bit of customer service. And I will and have driven up to an hour to experience a decent retailer who wants my business. With most of the small gun shops I have found that they think they are doing me a favor selling me something, often at an absurd markup. I have gone into some of the smaller shops around town with money to spend, but the owners were often too busy chatting up their buddies to come and help me. There is nothing like standing in a gun shop with cash in your pocket and no one will help you. I have no problem paying more to support a local shop. I would just like to be treated in the same manner as I would at any other retail establishment where I spend $500-2K on a purchase. Please let us know when you open. I will check your store out. Good luck!

Quoted: From what I have seen so far, admittedly not for very long, Rocky Mountain Shooter's Supply, in Ft. Collins, does things the right way. Not the cheapest place in town, but a couple of very knowledgeable and helpful guys, an on-site range, and a good inventory of weapons. They will be the first to tell you that they are not the best ammo source in town, but they have, or had (I'm not quite sure) a great gunsmith and talk straight.

You're probably right about them. I don't think I've actually been to RMSS.

My own experiences were mostly in the metro area and ranged from Bailey Guns (I really wish they were still around) to Jensen's (when they're not being all stressed and cranky they're good too)  at one end, to K2, Dave's, and Silver Bullet at the other (I wouldn't cross the street to urinate on Dave or Ned Y or any of the K2 people if you set them on fire).

And then there's Gunsmoke...I can't decide whether I like Rich or I think he should never have been let out of jail.

Quoted: Quoted: From what I have seen so far, admittedly not for very long, Rocky Mountain Shooter's Supply, in Ft. Collins, does things the right way. Not the cheapest place in town, but a couple of very knowledgeable and helpful guys, an on-site range, and a good inventory of weapons. They will be the first to tell you that they are not the best ammo source in town, but they have, or had (I'm not quite sure) a great gunsmith and talk straight. You're probably right about them. I don't think I've actually been to RMSS. My own experiences were mostly in the metro area and ranged from Bailey Guns (I really wish they were still around) to Jensen's (when they're not being all stressed and cranky they're good too)  at one end, to K2, Dave's, and Silver Bullet at the other (I wouldn't cross the street to urinate on Dave or Ned Y or any of the K2 people if you set them on fire). And then there's Gunsmoke...I can't decide whether I like Rich or I think he should never have been let out of jail.

If you do get to RMSS, talk to Bill. A really great guy and no BS Their new smith is Chuck. He seems very good. He is adding some goodies to a Bushie I just bought there.

Where is Gunsmoke? As I said, I'm very new to the area.

Thanks

Quoted: [ Where is Gunsmoke? As I said, I'm very new to the area. Thanks

You dont want to know. Actually just west of 44th Ave and Wadsworth.

I am not fond of that place. People who brought guns in have never had them returned due to loss of sorts etc.
The owner or one of the guys there, was running for the local counties SHeriff and lost. Has
a bitter attitude towards that particular department.
I have found their prices are exceptionally higher then anywhere else. I have stood at
the counter gazing at their limited selection and was never helped.
After the CCW instructor was caught on tape talking shit about LEOs and government in
a CCW class, I called to thank them for putting us gun owners int he lime lite and got in a verbal arguement with him.
Therefore, my money will never go to anything of theirs. YMMV

A few others on the board have had simular experiences with them.

Quoted: Quoted: [ Where is Gunsmoke? As I said, I'm very new to the area. Thanks You dont want to know. Actually just west of 44th Ave and Wadsworth. I am not fond of that place. People who brought guns in have never had them returned due to loss of sorts etc. The owner or one of the guys there, was running for the local counties SHeriff and lost. Has a bitter attitude towards that particular department. I have found their prices are exceptionally higher then anywhere else. I have stood at the counter gazing at their limited selection and was never helped. After the CCW instructor was caught on tape talking shit about LEOs and government in a CCW class, I called to thank them for putting us gun owners int he lime lite and got in a verbal arguement with him. Therefore, my money will never go to anything of theirs. YMMV A few others on the board have had simular experiences with them.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll follow your advice.

In my very biased opinion I feel the following shops do get it right for different reasons and products (in no particular order):

Firing Line (Aurora)--great high end 1911 selection (my personal weakness), Richard and Bob in particular are great guys-very knowledgeable and extemely friendly, however the younger dark haired, tall fat guy is an a-hole, know-it-all.  What he doesn't know would fill an encyclopedia.

Green Mountain (Lakewood)--great for older used stuff and frankly the best consignment selection in the metro area.  If you like S&W wheelies it seems the best used come in here.  There's a guy named Steve, usually wears a ball cap, mustache, glasses-comes off as another know-it-all, Paul, Merv, Ron, are great guys.  Keith thankfully is usually in the back.

Rocky Mountain Arms (Parker)--Brandon is a class act, great guy, very friendly and knowledgeable, good selection, not great, nice "black rifle" orientation.

These are my impressions from being a "gun buyer" for over 24 years in metro Denver. YMMV.

They are all good shops, unfortunately for Brandon I haven't been buying much since he took over the shop.  We can always use another good shop, I hope the economy will support you if you do begin this venture, best of luck and let us know if/when you get going.

Where did you get your information on Cabelas? They didn't run out of money, the city of Wheat Ridge shut them down. Something with water rights and so on.  So don't count on Cabelas comming here any time soon.

Quoted: I think there has been at least 20 stores that have shut down because of competition from Bass Pro, Sportsman's, Gander, and Walmart in the past 2 - 5 years.  Cabela's will be adding to that competition soon (they ran out of money while building their store in Golden but it will be there in the next year or so). I've seen the same happen to at least 8 local fishing stores. ...in fact, I know a couple of previous owners of stores that are working for these places. My thoughts....unless you can distinguish yourself, good luck (in a sarcastic way). You need to find a niche or a service that the big box stores can't provide and you need to do it in a way that is profitable.  That's the bottom line and unfortunately, there is no easy answer.  I've thought about it for a couple years and with relation to a gun store, the ONLY way you are going to survive is to gain a reputation for being a heck of a gunsmith.  Good, friendly gunsmiths are in big demand.  Most commercial places are scheduling work 6 - 8 weeks out and the guys that are specialists and have a reputation are scheduling work out over a year.

Quoted: In my very biased opinion I feel the following shops do get it right for different reasons and products (in no particular order): Firing Line (Aurora)--great high end 1911 selection (my personal weakness), Richard and Bob in particular are great guys-very knowledgeable and extemely friendly, however the younger dark haired, tall fat guy is an a-hole, know-it-all.  What he doesn't know would fill an encyclopedia. Green Mountain (Lakewood)--great for older used stuff and frankly the best consignment selection in the metro area.  If you like S&W wheelies it seems the best used come in here.  There's a guy named Steve, usually wears a ball cap, mustache, glasses-comes off as another know-it-all, Paul, Merv, Ron, are great guys.  Keith thankfully is usually in the back. Rocky Mountain Arms (Parker)--Brandon is a class act, great guy, very friendly and knowledgeable, good selection, not great, nice "black rifle" orientation. These are my impressions from being a "gun buyer" for over 24 years in metro Denver. YMMV. They are all good shops, unfortunately for Brandon I haven't been buying much since he took over the shop.  We can always use another good shop, I hope the economy will support you if you do begin this venture, best of luck and let us know if/when you get going.

Hey Doc,

Is the Aurora place good for used high-end 1911's? I'm looking for a series 70 Gold Cup. It would be worth the trek down there if you thought they had a good supply. (Of course, I could also do the smart thing and call them, but that's way too practical.)

Thanks.

GaCracker, The Firing Line has a fair amount of nice used 1911s, didn't notice any Gold Cups when I was in there last week.

On this past Saturday there was a Series 70 Gold Cup at Green Mountain, don't remember the price.  I have no connection to any of the business posted (except for giving them my money now & then) or firearms for sale.

The Firing Line is decent...the indoor range sucks major unless you are a member...if not, bring a coat and a flashlight when you go shooting there...

They have a decent collection of long rifles...mostly double barrel shotguns and AKs that are marked up 15-20%, though...

They just recently put together a case full of AR stuff like MOE, CTR, PMAGs, LaRue mounts, Daniel Defense, etc, which is nice...

Also, they tend to be gun snobs...regardless of how well it performed, they openly criticized my Hi Point rifle while I had it...some of them are friendly, some of them are assholes...

Well, after looking around, I think near C-470 and S. Santa Fe is the place to be.  Easy access from all parts of the city/state.  How does that hit ya'll?

Anyhow, moving forward here.  Am in contact with some people to form an LLC, business name & license.  Looking at some wholesalers, and the FFL application.

FYI: Prairie Arms is already located at C-470 and Santa-Fe (less than a mile south of 470 on Santa Fe).

Sounds good...as close to center of the state population without going to Castle Rock or Parker...

Quoted: FYI: Prairie Arms is already located at C-470 and Santa-Fe (less than a mile south of 470 on Santa Fe).

Well, nothing is set in stone at this point, so the location could change.  But, being at such a location, it offers a choice to buyers from around the front range, with such easy access from every part of the city.

With other shops pretty close together in some areas, I believe we can't have too many privately owned gun shops.

I'd definitely buy local because I like fiddling with the stuff before I buy them

Quoted: I'd definitely buy local because I like fiddling with the stuff before I buy them

+1 that is why I like Mike....he'll let me attach anything before I purchase it...

Well I've been trying to contact the owner of the complex we are interested in leasing. I talked to him from the start, but now he is blowing me off. I don't think he was too excited about our business type. Isn't there a discrimination law against this? pffft!  Any lawyer-types in here?

Quoted: Well I've been trying to contact the owner of the complex we are interested in leasing. I talked to him from the start, but now he is blowing me off. I don't think he was too excited about our business type. Isn't there a discrimination law against this? pffft!  Any lawyer-types in here?

IIRC, that applies to zoning, but not landlords.

ETA: not a lawyer.

ETA2: as far as locations, is there actually a storefront operation in Broomfield/Westminster? Other than the Sportsman's Warehouse on I-25/84th and one or two transfer FFLs, I can't think of anything up here.

ETA3: Westie has the highest total sales tax rate in the metro area. That may be a factor.

Hey Crazy,
No matter where you set up, i would definatly be interested in seeing what you have in stock and purchasing from you.

Ever thought of Broomfield? Or something off 120th and I-25?

You mean in Protekt Solutions' neighborhood?

I think the family that owns 5280 Armory started out dealing at gunshows and didn't have (much if any of) a storefront until about 3-4 years ago. If they were a gun show dealer as they grew the business that was very smart; they kept overhead from killing their business early on. I think that's what hurts a dealer more than anything else: paying rent on the storefront while waiting for customers to find them.

OTOH, if you are in a position to buy a piece of commercial property you might have a better position since the neighboring businesses could pay the overhead of your fine establishment.

It also wouldn't hurt to run a hybrid business. The guy who sold me the lower half of my first AR ran a jewelry business in the SE corner of the state. He probably made more money off of jewelry than guns since the business card he gave me was for his jewelry business. Guns are hard to specialize in since the margins are low and you have to move lots of them to break even.

We plan on vending at the shows as well.  But, it will be concurrent with the shop being open.