I'm stationed up here at Lewis, and just laid away a FAL. I'm picking it up next pay check, but I don't really know the area well. I've been to a few indoor ranges with buddies, but they were short range and not great for rifle shooting. I'm just wondering where you guys that live around here go?

i'm just going to leave this here

WAHTF help & links page

What's wrong with shooting it at Range 15 right there in Ft Lewis?

I have always wanted to shoot at the range on base, and have been told it's possible to do it without much hassle. I just don't know the procedure.

There's no hassle at all.  If you have access from the base (IOW, you have a military ID) just drive over there.  If you do not have access, come by Roy and you never have to go through a gate.  You'll be on base, but outside the base gates.  No drama.

East Gate RD. Its only $5.00 IIRC.

They hassle us to register the weapon on post. I am not anxious to do that.





Easier said than done, that's where I initially looked, except the thread on places to shoot won't pull up for me.

If you live off post, you dont have to register you firearms to go to the range.

dude, shoot me a pm, i can get ya squared away

I have been out here for about a month and Range 15 is about as good as it gets.

EDIT: Nevermind. Are there any caliber restrictions to the range on post?

can non military people shoot at range 15?
if so how does one go about getting on base to shoot there?

Yes.
Dive in through Roy.  You will be inside the base, but outside the gate.

What is the greatest distance a person can shoot on range 15?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_15/458362_Summer_LCR_August_26_28_Brooklyn_Run_.html

This Saturday, I'm going head out to the Upper Nisqually gun club and take a look at their ranges.  They have a 550 yard range open almost all the time...I really enjoy the longer distances for wind doping.  If I like the club, and people, I'll probably join it.

whats the cost to shoot at range 15?

That range is maybe 10 or 15 minutes from my new Fortress of Solitude too.

cool thanks, I might head there this weekend.
One more question I have read that you need to register the weapons you plan to use there, Is this true?  and do they supply the target stands or do i need to bring one?
I plan on getting there from the Roy Y so i would not need to go past a guard post.

they supply you with target stands,
You don't need to register anything.  It is open to civilians and military just pays a little less.
there is not check point if you access it from behind post.

I went to Upper Nisqually sportsman's club today.  Very nice range, friendly folks too.  I liked that the people I ran into weren't range nazis. My laser showed the 200 yard line to be 201 yards, and the 550 yard line was actually 540, with the back wall of the berm at 545 yards.  Someone had put some orange clay birds on the bank, and the chips made great targets.  At least now I know somewhere to shoot a decent distance on a regular basis.

In all honesty the Ft. Lewis Range should only be used by Military (active, retired, reserver, NG, and their dependents, basically have some type of Military ID card), DoD Civilians, and DoD contractors.  Basically if you don't have access to enter the gated area, you should not be using the range, unless you are going as a guest with someone that does have access.

Remember when you enter Ft. Lewis even the non gated areas you are federal land, if the MPs stop you, they can search you and your vehicles at their hearts content, you are not protected by the 4th amendment when you enter a military installation.  So you might want to think about bringing a firearm that is not registered with the Ft. Lewis provost marshalls office, they have the justification to take said firearms from you until you can prove they are registered.

That said, when you do register your firearms on a military installation, by law they are not allowed to place those registered firearms in a database that is used to track military weapons.  Hence, they can only keep the forms in their office and most likely will have to destroy the registration forms after they are expired.  It's not the same as a 4473.

If i have access to it and my tax money helps pay for it, I sure as hell am going to use it.

And where do i get the form to register the guns i plan on using there? I have no problem doing this.

I guess I'll have to check out Upper Nisqually.  I sent off an app to Cascade and I've never heard a peep back

I'll probably be going back out to Upper Nisqually in a day or two to do some shooting on their 550 yard range (540 actual per my laser).  It is actually a pretty nice range.  Covered shooting areas, good benches, but I'm going to try and remember to bring my own shooting stool as the ones that I found on the range are old office chairs.  The tendency of the chairs to roll around on the wheels makes it harder to shoot good groups.  So if I bring a chair or stool that doesn't roll around, I should shoot a bit better.

This.

Ask the Range officer about how to do it.  Years ago you could do it through the Rifle Range, Skeet Range, Outdoor Rec office, or directly with the provost marshal's office.

I believe the form has enough to list 4-6 firearms on it, you should receive a copy back with the Provost marshal's seal stamp on it to carry with you, that's what you would carry with you to prove they are registered.

They started doing this after 9/11 and it was also part of the process when registering to Hunt on Ft. Lewis.

And to rephrase about only those that should use it, I guess the priority for use should be what I listed, Military and dependents > DoD type civilians > regular civilians

Thanks for the info, I will call them this Friday and find out for sure.
I can agree that Military should have priority, but only if they are on duty and shooting as an exorcise, But then again they have plenty of spots for that.

I presume the military has regulations for who is authorized to shoot on the Ft. Lewis range.  They have regulations for everything else related to shooting, and who uses their shooting range would be no exception.  As long as everyone follows the regulations for who is AUTHORIZED to shoot at the Ft. Lewis range, personal preferences about who "should" use the range are irrelevant.  Just as it is with the laws of any jurisdiction, it is the laws, or in the case of Ft. Lewis' range, the regulations that rule, not preferences.

The Military has their own restricted range with pop up targets.
Range 15 is for Everyone.
Also it is only open to the public Friday -Sunday. 10-4
So if for some reason that military did want to use it, they could M-Th

I think that the military allowing civilians on their range at any time is far more generous of them than I would have expected.  That is quite praiseworthy even if it is only a couple of days per week.  Very nice of them.

Its the only one were allowed to shoot our personal shit on too

What I was trying to say is that in my experience, most military bases (and police ranges) are so terrified of civil liability from accidents, that they won't let anyone not under their liability protection umbrella use their facility.  Fort Lewis' willingness to let other people on their range who aren't under some type of civil liability umbrella is a huge step forward.  Maybe it is only a public relations thing to improve relations with the locals.  But I honestly do think they are being generous sharing the range.

I'm aware that it is OUR tax money that builds, runs, and in essence allows the military to even exist.  But historically, once they get that money, they certainly don't see US as their employer.  They perceive that they work for the commander in chief..not us.

It's apparently a law or public policy, having something to do with the militia, that they make a range available to the general public.  Somebody on another forum posted the information a long time ago, so I'm working from memory.  Work it out for yourself.

But we do work for the CAC. Were not police officers. Were not here to protect you and serve you, were sposed to go other places to kill folks that dont like you, or are a threat to our interests. Perhaps the national guard, who is controlled primarily by the STATE that funds them is what you're thinking of. Everyone seems to think that "foreign and domestic" means we work for the people. Police, and it extreme cases the national guard are here to protect you. The DOD is supposed to go out and kill people so it doesnt come to that.

But we do work for the CAC. Were not police officers. Were not here to protect you and serve you, were sposed to go other places to kill folks that dont like you, or are a threat to our interests. Perhaps the national guard, who is controlled primarily by the STATE that funds them is what you're thinking of. Everyone seems to think that "foreign and domestic" means we work for the people. Police, and it extreme cases the national guard are here to protect you. The DOD is supposed to go out and kill people so it doesnt come to that.[/quote]

I understand all that stuff.  Having been a member of the military, I don't have any beef with the military's organization, or how it is run, and who commands it.  There has to be a leader or it simply would be ineffective.    My main point was that I think it is generous of the military to allow civilians on their range.  

I shoot elsewhere, so how they run things on their range won't effect me in any case.  I just think it is unusual for them to allow civilians on their range.  When I was in law enforcement, the local military range would let us book time on the various ranges if they weren't in use.  But civilians simply couldn't shoot there on their own, nor were they allowed to book ranges.   Range command cited civil liability as the reason only military and law enforcement could use the range.

i called the range just a few minutes ago and was told the range is Not open to civilians, I also called the visitors center and was also told the same thing.

both places said to use the range the person must be affiliated with the military or be with some one as a guest.

A few more miles down the road you can go to the Upper Nisqually Sportsman's club...540 yards (they call it the 550 yard range) is the longest distance you can shoot there.  They also have 100, 200, 300, 400, and 500 yards to shoot unless they are having a match.

isnt that a members only club?

No, they are wrong. There are civis there all the time. Ill be there next weekend if anyone wants to meet up and go check out range 15, send me a message.

is this a personal opinion?

No.  Non members can shoot there, but after 3 visits as a non member, they ask you to join.  If you shoot very often, it is really cost effective to join anyhow.  Check the club's calendar before heading out there.  The 550 yard range is closed during matches, but there is another range that can be used most of the time.  There will be a 50 caliber match this sunday (07 August) from noon to 4pm.

Lol, I always thought it was a cool way to regularly meet civilian folks with similar interests. Shooting is one of my only hobbies and short of Arfcom I've met most of my civilian friends at range 15 out here, and at the sportsmen ranges in AZ and GA.

You left out the rest of my quote, which I added in back in bold and blue.  It is not a personal opinion, I think it is actually in the ARMY regulations.  That's probably why when someone called, read quote below, they were told it was not open to civilians.  The problem lies with in the range officer that doesn't check for ID cards or status of the person shooting.



Basically since the range is located outside the "Gated" area, that has higher security, people will drive up to it thinking they can use it.  As I stated before just because you have physical access to it doesn't mean you have the right to use it legally.

And why do you have that opinion?

Again it's not really my opinion, I'm paraphrasing regulations that I have read in the past.

Now all the following is a lot to read but it supports everything I have said so far.

"ALL WEAPONS MUST BE REGISTERED ON POST BEFORE BRINGING THEM ON THE INSTALLATION." From the MWR website.
http://jblmmwr.com/nw_adv_ranges.html


For those of you bypassing the access gates to get to the range, read and head, from the CFR: § 552.87
(g) Trespassers. Persons or organizations entering or using the Ft. Lewis range complex outside one of the access channels described above are trespassing on a controlled-access federal reservation and are subject to citation by the military police. Trespassers may be barred from subsequent authorized access to the installation, and will be subject to the provisions of this section.


Also information on who can use Range 15:
From https://sponsor.lewis.army.mil/requests/Regulations/FLReg350-30.pdf
15-4. OFF DUTY SHOOTING. The Northwest Adventure Center operates ranges for archery and privately-owned weapons. Information on use is available from the Center.

Northwest Adventure Center is MWR:
Eligibility/Authorized Patrons of MWR run facilities: http://www.army.mil/fmwrc/regulations.htm
Q. Who can take advantage of the many opportunities and programs MWR has to offer?

A. MWR programs are open to Authorized Patrons only.  MWR programs are established primarily for active duty (AD) military personnel.  AD personnel receive first priority for participation or use if space is limited.  Ready and Selected Reserve members have the same priority as AD military personnel with regard to category C MWR activites only. Gray area retirees (retired reservists under age 60) have the same priority as regular Army retirees for use of category C MWR activities only.

Neither the Ready, Selected, or Retired Reserve without pay have first priority for categories A and B MWR activities.

Eligible family members may participate in MWR activities whether or not accompanied by the sponsor. Family members and guests
of first priority patrons assume the same priority. All others have equal access after first priority patrons, on a first come basis, unless
determined otherwise by the local commander.

Guests must be accompanied by authorized patrons and may participate in MWR activities, purchase items incidental to participation,
and consume food and beverages while on the premises.  Otherwise, guests are not authorized resale purchases.  Installation commanders (or delegatees) will approve local rules governing the number of guests and the frequency of use at specific facilities.
Q. Do service connected disabled veterans who possess a disabled veteran's VA ID card have any MWR bennefits, exchange or commisary privillages? I ask because my uncle is a disabled veteran and he wanted to know what bennefits he had.

A. Only veterans with a 100% service-connected disability and an honorable discharge are eligible patrons of MWR and the post exchange on a military installation.  In most situations, the authorized patron may be accompanied by a guest.  On eligibility for commissary privileges, it is best to contact the nearest military installation commissary manager to determine the proper procedures and governing requirements.

Q. If I am retired and eligible, what do I do?

A. In accordance with DoD Instruction 1015.10, retired DoD civilians are authorized patronage of MWR programs and facilities at the discretion of the installation commander based on adequacy of facilities and space availability. It would be prudent for you to call ahead to the facility you want to use and inquire as to their specific patronage policy and, if authorized, what kind of identification you should present to authenticate your status as a retired DoD civilian employee.







So for all those thinking I'm blowing stuff out of my ass needs to read the regulations.  Just because they let people shoot there etc.. doesn't mean they are following the regulations correctly and legally.