stock on a pistol?

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Posted: 7/17/2008 10:45:42 PM EDT

Where would I find out if it would be legal to place a stock on a pistol?

To be clear here, I'm not talking about an AR, and the collapsible stock would be permanently collapsed. The "intent" would not be to use it as a shoulder fired weapon, or even to use the stock at all. It would genuinely be attached to the pistol for cosmetic reasons.

Any ideas?

Posted: 7/17/2008 10:59:16 PM EDT

[#1]

Forget your intentions. Could it be fired from the shoulder? Would the arresting agency think it was intended to fire from the shoulder? If so is the barrel at least 16" and OAL 26"?

Posted: 7/17/2008 11:12:14 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Could it be fired from the shoulder? Could should not be applicable, or AR pistols would be SBRs.

Would the arresting agency think it was intended to fire from the shoulder? This is kinda what I'm wondering. I know WA uses intended in the defition of a rifle, pistol, or a shotgun, but I'm not so good at looking up federal law. I was hoping that permanently disabling the extension of the stock (it'd be pretty compact, a fraction of the receiver length) before attaching it to the pistol, would be evidence that it wasn't designed or remade to be fired from the shoulder.

If so is the barrel at least 16" and OAL 26"? Nope, not long enough. If it fit these dimensions, it would be pointless as a pistol.

Posted: 7/18/2008 12:24:19 AM EDT

[#3]

Please let us know where the ATF takes you so we can send you ghey pron.

Posted: 7/18/2008 6:47:28 AM EDT

[#4]

There have been several "pistol" versions of carbines sold with the folding stock permanently welded in the closed position. At such point, the "stock" is nothing more than decorative dead-weight as it does not provide the ability to shoot from the shoulder.

You should see the banter that goes back and forth on the AR recoil spring tube blah blah blah

Posted: 7/18/2008 7:05:03 AM EDT

[#5]

The bear is over there.....................................here is your stick.

Posted: 7/18/2008 7:44:24 AM EDT

[#6]

To be clear here, I'm not talking about an AR, and the collapsible stock would be permanently collapsed.

Well what exactly are you talking about?

Any ideas?

Yes.

Posted: 7/18/2008 7:44:25 AM EDT

[#7]

Posted: 7/18/2008 8:10:45 AM EDT

[#8]

ATF calls that a short barreled rifle

Posted: 7/18/2008 8:17:24 AM EDT

[#9]

NOTHING IS ILLEGAL!!!!!!
.... Until you get caught! Then you are royally screwed!!!

Posted: 7/18/2008 10:13:32 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Could it be fired from the shoulder? Could should not be applicable, or AR pistols would be SBRs.

AR pistols do not have a stock permanently collapsed or otherwise. If it did have one even just behind the receiver a person could fire it from the shoulder. Then it would likely be argued that it was intended to work that way.

Posted: 7/18/2008 10:20:36 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/3/3e/300px-Browning_HP_(Finnish)_with_stock.jpg

www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/images/KucerMauserStk.jpg

I believe the original BHPs and Mausers are not considered SBRs...

Posted: 7/18/2008 10:40:41 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

I believe the original BHPs and Mausers are not considered SBRs...

It's specific and there are more pistol& shoulder stock combinations than those, as well as many items, on the list.

Section III. NFA Firearms Removed From the NFA as Collectors' Items and Classified as Curios or Relics Under the GCA:

SEC. III: Weapons Removed From The NFA As Collector's Items And Classified As Curios Or Relics Under The GCA.

The Bureau has determined that by reason of the date of their manufacture, value, design and other characteristics, the following firearms are primarily collector's items and are not likely to be used as weapons and, therefore, are excluded from the provisions of the National Firearms Act.

Further, the Bureau has determined that such firearms are also curios or relics as defined in 27 CFR 178.11. Thus, licensed collectors may acquire, hold or dispose of them as curios or relics subject to the provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 and 27 CFR Part 178. They are still "firearms" as defined in 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44.

Any military bolt action or semiautomatic rifle mfd. prior to 1946 and accompanied by a "cup type" grenade launcher designed for the specific rifle.
Belgian, Pre-war mfd. Hi Power pistols, in cal. 9mm having tangent sights graduated to 500 meters, slotted for shoulder stock, having S/Ns of less than 47,000 without letter prefixes or suffixes and accompanied by original Belgian mfd. detachable wooden flat board type shoulder stocks.
Beretta, model 1918/1930, semiautomatic carbine, cal. 9mm, having a barrel length of 12.5" and a magazine capacity of 25 rounds.
Beretta, model 1923, semiautomatic pistol, in cal. 9mm Kurz (.380), accompanied by original Italian detachable leather and metal holster/shoulder stock.
Bergmann-Bayard, model 1908, Pistol, 9mm Bergmann-Bayard with shoulder stock and 4" barrel.
Bergmann, Mars model 1903, self loading pistol, w/accompanying shoulder stock.
British PIAT (Projector, Infantry, Anti-tank).
Browning, model 1903, Pistol, 9mm Browning Long, with shoulder stock and 5" barrel.
Browning Hi power pistols, 9mm having tangent sights graduated to 500 meters, slotted for shoulder stock, having S/Ns less than T200,000 etched vertically on the right side of slide, barrel or frame and bearing crest of Emirates of Muscat & Oman, or mirror image of such crest, accompanied by original detachable wooden flat board shoulder stocks.
Canadian, Inglis No. 1, Chinese Contract, Hi Power pistols, cal. 9mm parabellum, having a tangent rear sight adjustable from 50 to 500 meters, slotted for shoulder stock, and having the letters C in the S/N and accompanied by original Canadian mfd. detachable wooden holster/shoulder stock.
Clement, Pistol Carbine, cal. 9mm.
Chinese mfd. copies of the Mauser model 1896, semiautomatic pistol, produced prior to 1945, any cal., accompanied by original Chinese mfd. detachable wooden holster/shoulder stocks.
Colt, Lightning rifle, original cutaway demonstrator produced by Colt.
Colt, Model New Service, cal. .44 WCF,having a smooth bore, S/N's *309065, 316627.
Colt, Model New Service revolver, cal. .45 Colt, S/N 326618, having a smooth bore.
Colt, model Woodsman, .22 Long Rifle cal., semiautomatic pistol with an experimental 10" barrel and an experimental wooden detachable shoulder stock.
Colt, model Woodsman, .22 Long Rifle cal., semiautomatic pistols, mfd. between 1915 and 1943, together with the original leather detachable holster stocks, mfd. by the N&S Corporation, Ventura, CA.
Colt, model 1905, Pistol, .45 rimless, with leather holster/shoulder stock and 5" barrel.
Colt, Model 1911 pistol, cal. .38 Super, S/N 16212, accompanied by an original "Multi-Shot Riot and Anti-Bandit" shoulder stock as originally mfd. by Monarch Arms Sales Company, Los Angeles, California, in the early 1930's.
Colt, New Service Revolver, cal. 44/40, w/original smooth bore barrel, S/N 326596.
Colt, Officers model, .38 Special cal., double action revolver, with 6" barrel and a detachable, experimental skeleton shoulder stock and holster combination.
Colt, semiautomatic pistol, cal. .22 rimfire, S/Ns 49551 and 49712, accompanied by an original "Rifle-ette" shoulder stock as originally mfd. by Monarch Arms & Mfg Co., Los Angles, CA
in the 1920s.
Colt, Single Action Army revolver, cal. .45, with original smoothbore barrel, S/N 325085.
Colt, Single Action Army revolver, S/N 354096, cal. .44/40 having a smooth bored barrel and a barrel length of 7-1/2".
Czechoslovakian, model CZ24, semiautomatic pistol, in cal. 9mm Kurz (.380) accompanied by original Czechoslovakian detachable wooden holster/shoulder stock.
Fiala, model 1920, repeating pistol, cal. .22LR in all barrel lengths with accompanying detachable shoulder tock; original copies of the Fiala repeating pistol, marked Schall, Columbia or Botwinick Brothers, cal. .22LR, with accompanying original detachable shoulder stock.
Finnish, model L-35, Lahti, Semiautomatic pistol, in cal. 9mm parabellum, accompanied by original Finnish detachable wooden holster/shoulder stock.
Flashlight Revolver, cal. .22 Rimfire, having a rifled barrel, patented on July 10, 1923 and originally mfd. by S. P. Cottrell & Son, Buffalo, NY.
Frommer, model 1912, semiautomatic pistol w/Benke-Thiemann folding shoulder stock.
German, model 1918, (WWI) anti-tank rifle (PzAgew 1918), cal. 13.25mm.
German, (Nazi) Belt Buckle Gun, .22 rimfire, marked "DRP Ausl Pat,
Louis Marquis, W. Elberfeld."
German, (Nazi) Belt Buckle Gun, 7.65mm, marked "D.R.P. Angem."
German, Kamphpistole, cal. 26.7mm.
German, Leuchpistole, 26.7mm, Walther pattern, mfd. in or before 1945, with original 23mm rifle grenade launching adapter sleeve.
German, VG1-5 (Volksgewehr), semiautomatic rifle, cal. 7.92mm Kurz, having a barrel length of 14.9" and an overall length of 34.8".
Greener Cattle Killer (Original model) No. B1201, .310 cal.
Greener Cattle Killer (Pocket Pattern) No. B1203, .310 cal.
Greener Safti Killer No. B1216, .22 cal.
Greener Universal Safti Killer No. B1217, .310 cal.
Hamilton, models 7, 11, 15, 19, 23, 27, 027, 31, 35, 39, and 43 rifles.
Harrington and Richardson (H&R) "Handy Gun," .22 rimfire or .32-20 centerfire, with 12-1/4" rifled barrel, without shoulder stock.
Heal, Rifle No. 10, cal. .22 Heal, .22 rimfire cal. rifles, all models, mfd. prior to 1908, by the Heal Rifle Company or the Detroit Rifle Company.
High Standard, model C/S, smoothbore .22 cal. shot semiautomatic pistols, bearing S/Ns 59279, 59460, 59469, 59473, 59478.
* High Standard, Model Sentinel (R-100), cal. .22 revolver having smooth bore with integral choke, S/N's 948, 995.
High Standard, model S, smoothbore .22 cal. shot semiautomatic pistols having slides marked "Hi-STANDARD MODEL "S" .22 L.R. SHOT ONLY," and bearing S/Ns 48142, 48143, 48144, 48145, 48146 59474, 59496, 59458, 59459.
"JGA" (J.G. Anchutz, Ulm, Germany), .22 Flobert single shot pistol.
J.G. Anschutz, bolt action pistol, single shot, cal. 6 mm Glatt, S/N 377153.
Kennedy Repeating Rifle, cal. .44, with 14" barrel, S/N C329.
Krupp, models 1902 and 1906, 50mm Mountain Cannons as produced for the Siamese Government.
Luger, Artillery model, pistols having chamber dates of 1914 through 1918 or 1920, having German Weimar Navy markings consisting of the letter M over an anchor and a German Navy property number accompanied by original Artillery Luger flat board stocks, bearing German Weimar Navy markings of the letter M over an anchor with or without Navy property numbers.
Luger, the 1920 Commercial Artillery model, pistols as mfd. by DWMor Erfurt, having undated chambers, commercial proofmarks, and bearing the inscription Germany or Made in Germany on the receiver and accompanied by original, German mfd., artillery type, detachable wooden shoulder stocks.
Luger, DWM Pistol, model 1900, 1902, or 1906, in 7.65 Luger or 9mm parabellum cal., having the American Eagle chamber crest, and barrel lengths of either 4" or 4-3/4, with original detachable Ideal shoulder stocks and Ideal frame grips.
DWM Luger, Original models 1904, 1906, 1908, 1914 and 1920. Naval pistols in 9mm parabellum or 7.65mm cal., in both the Commercial and Naval military varieties; in both altered and unaltered barrel lengths in the model 1904 and in both altered and unaltered safety markings in the model 1906; with original board-type detachable shoulder stocks bearing brass or iron discs, with or without markings, or, if without brass or iron discs, being of the
Navy flat board-type. This exemption applies only to the listed Naval Luger pistols if mated to the Naval Luger stock and will not apply if the Naval Luger pistol is mated to the Artillery stock. The Naval stock has an overall dimension of 12-3/4", a rear width of 4-5/8", a front width of 1-1/2", a rear thickness of 9/16", and a front thickness of l-3/16".
Luger, DWM Stoeger model 1920 and 1923, semiautomatic pistols in 7.65mm or 9mm parabellum cal., in barrel lengths of 8, 10, 12, and 12-1/2", having either American Eagle chamber crests and/or Stoeger frame and/or upper receiver marks, having either standard, Navy or artillery rear sights, having extractors marked either "Loaded" or "Geladen" and having frame
safety markings of either "Gesichert" or "Safe," together w/original commercial flat board stocks of the artillery type, which bear no S/Ns or military proof marks; may include a "Germany" marking.
Luger, DWM Pistol-Carbine, model 1920, 7.65mm or 9mm parabellum cal., with accompanying original commercial type shoulder stock, with or without forearm piece, having barrel lengths of 11-3/4" to less than 16".
Luger, German model 1914, Artillery model pistol, mfd. by DWM or Erfurt, having chambers dated 1914 - -1918, bearing Imperial German military proofmarks & accompanied by original, German mfd., artillery type, detachable wooden shoulder stocks.
Luger, model 1902, Pistol-Carbine, 7.65mm Luger with original commercial type shoulder stock and forearm and 11-3/4" barrel.
Luger, Persian (Iranian) Artillery model, pistols, as mfd. by Mauser prior to 1945, accompanied by the original artillery type, detachable wooden shoulder stock, bearing a S/N in Farsi characters stamped into the wood on the left side.
Luger, semiautomatic pistol, certain variations with Benke-Thiemann folding shoulder stock.
MBA, Gyrojet Rocket Guns, cal. 13mm, semiautomatic version only, produced in 1968 or earlier, S/N ranges A0001-A0032, A001-A085, B010-B411, and B5059-B5692.
Manville, 18-shot-drum, 25mm, semiautomatic tear gas gun.
Marlin Model 1893 or 93 carbine, cal. .25, with 15 inch barrel, S/Ns 193134, 284957, 320283, 387186.
Marlin Model 1893 or 93 carbine, cal. .30, with 15 inch barrel, S/Ns 199669, 199690, 203990, 204585, 208526, 228856, 237681, 244372, 256559, 256568, 256577, 256583, 256611, 258853, 261844, 261889, 261901, 269397, 269636, 281802, 281810, 291358, 336467, 336478,
336504, 336610, 338883.
Marlin Model 1893 carbine, .30-30 caliber having a factory fitted 15-inch barrel S/N 1934.
* Marlin Model 1893 carbine, cal. .30-30, with a 15 inch barrel, S/N 244371.
Marlin Model 1893, carbine, cal. .32 with 15 inch barrel, S/N C2315.
Marlin Model 1893 or 93 carbine, cal. .32-30, .32-40, .32 HPS, with 15 inch barrel, S/Ns 176656, 194471, 194786, 194771, 194786, 258880, 258894, 285305, 285331, 291337, 291399, 292390, 307905, 308094, 308111, 329063, 335434, 336651, 336964, 370263, 426311, C1326, C1323, C3967.
Marlin Model 1893 or 93 carbine, cal. .38-55 or .38 HPS, w/15 inch barrel, S/Ns 194783, 246363, 275896, 316309, 336529, A4054, D8266.
Marlin Model 1894 or 94 carbine, cal. .25, with 12 inch barrel, S/Ns 283149, 328901, 328925, 328928, 328937, 328958.
Marlin Model 1894 or 94 carbine, cal. .25, with 15 inch barrel, S/Ns 190958, 190962, 190976, 211087, 280125, 280128, 280141, 280147, 283330, 287748, 294716, 328910, 337955, 442611, 442643.
* Marlin Model 1894, .25-20 caliber, S/N's 409198, 442606, having a 15 inch barrel.
Marlin Model 1894 or 94 carbine, cal. .32, with 15 inch barrel, S/Ns 190944, 190950, 190963, 190972, 217948, 282898, 282904, 287741, 287745, 287753, 287755, 287762, 287764, 287769, 287770, 287772, 294666, 294732, 301560, 314652, 325609, 328807, 328837, 328933, 376900.
Marlin Model 1894 carbine, caliber .33-20, serial number 417837, having a 15-inch barrel.
Marlin Model 1894 or 94 carbine, cal. .38, with 14 inch barrel, S/Ns 324849, 326718.
Marlin Model 1894 or 94 carbine, cal. .38, with 15 inch barrel, S/Ns 195570, 199975, 200007, 20022, 215011, 216362, 216412, 282004, 282936, 282997, 285870, 285974, 285979, 285990, 286281, 287729, 300626, 310864, 316798, 318000, 321957, 321970, 321973, 321985, 321986, 321990, 322025, 322035, 322037, 322053, 322077, 322079, 322082, 322095, 322514, 323672, 323688, 323785, 323810, 323846, 323925, 323928, 324195, 324238, 325732, 325740, 326143,
326206, 326726, 330543, 384186, 397215.
* Marlin Model 1894 or 94, caliber .38-40, serial number 430591, as originally manufactured with a 15-1/4 inch barrel.
Marlin Model 1894 or 94 carbine, cal. 44, with 14 inch barrel, S/Ns 312691, 312708, 312801, 316617, 316628, 316632, 316645, 316649, 316654, 316656, 316739, 316772, 316803, 317427, 317449, 317466, 317470, 317499, 317559, 317573, 317578, 317582, 317587, 317596, 317646,
317687, 317690, 317698, 317697, 322641.
Marlin Model 1894 or 94 carbine, cal. .44, with 15 inch barrel, S/Ns 181852, 181863, 181911, 181967, 182048, 182068, 182093, 182205, 182219, 182226, 182321, 182322, 182344, 183374, 183376, 183379, 183400, 183401, 183403, 183408, 183413, 183418, 183428, 183432, 183433, 185128, 185129, 185133, 185145, 185150, 185155, 185165, 185167, 185174, 185175, 185185, 185186, 185187, 185192, 191033, 191096, 191097, 191098, 191099, 191100, 191101, 191104, 191105, 191106, 191424, 195823, 195840, 195842, 196827, 197867, 200830, 200903, 200906, 200922, 200928, 200929, 200930, 200958, 203760, 203761, 203763, 203766, 203767, 203769, 203771, 203772, 203773, 203774, 203778, 203780, 203781, 203782, 203784, 203785, 203787,
203788, 203789, 203796, 203798, 203806, 203811, 203812, 203813, 203818, 203822, 203824, 203826, 204395, 204398, 204403, 204404, 204407, 204411, 204414, 204415, 204419, 204421, 204426, 204427, 204428, 204429, 204430, 204499, 205727, 210260, 210269, 211064, 215017, 215019, 215020, 215023, 215030, 215037, 215043, 215054, 215058, 215059, 215063, 215068, 215070, 215071, 215079, 216340, 216348, 216350, 216357, 216363, 216366, 216368, 216416, 216423, 216424, 216425, 219240, 219253, 219254, 219273, 219288, 219291, 219295, 232678, 232948, 232950, 232964, 232981, 232997, 232999, 233001, 233010, 233240, 233281, 233299, 233344, 233355, 233369, 233396, 233403, 233481, 233519, 233530, 233535, 233543, 233549, 233592, 233600, 233632, 233695, 233712, 233733, 233781, 233798, 234308, 238716, 238720, 271131, 271328, 271330, 271331, 276129, 276138, 276156, 276162, 276170, 276177, 276183, 276189, 276195, 276218, 276226, 276228, 276239, 276249, 276254, 276255, 276258, 276262, 276264, 276265, 279683, 282927, 282945, 283260, 285876, 285943, 285946, 285961, 285999, 286011, 286018, 286019, 286250, 295694, 295725, 297384, 297473, 297598, 297639, 299635, 299643, 299648, 299662, 299670, 299676, 299689, 300302, 300629, 300634, 300656, 300685, 300690, 300698, 300705, 300709, 300719, 300738, 300744, 300754, 300777, 300780, 300793, 300800, 300806, 300832, 300834, 300850, 300904, 300905, 300917, 300918, 300927, 300931,
300936, 300951, 300955, 300967, 301844, 301857, 301863, 301866, 301867, 301896, 301924, 301942, 301961, 301976, 301981, 302015, 302059, 302102, 302149, 302209, 302224, 302239, 302246, 302341, 304526, 305795, 306179, 307210, 312344, 312358, 312367, 312370, 312371, 312377, 312378, 312382, 312384, 312387, 312391, 312393, 312403, 312415, 312419, 312420, 312423, 312425, 312427, 312435, 312437, 312438, 312443, 312445, 312446, 312451, 313218, 317706, 317710, 317713, 317723, 317726, 317728, 317742, 317744, 317750, 317751, 317761, 317796, 317802, 317817, 317832, 318000, 318012, 318023, 318029, 318042, 318043, 318044, 318045, 318046, 318048, 318054, 318792, 321954, 321955, 321956, 321962, 321972, 321974,
321975, 321977, 321978, 321979, 321988, 321994, 322002, 322015, 322019, 322021, 322028, 322046, 322048, 322065, 322066, 322076, 322087, 322088, 322103, 322112, 322114, 322116, 322123, 322126, 322135, 322140, 322144, 322147, 322149, 322154, 322157, 322162, 322175, 322176, 322178, 322181, 322182, 322183, 322184, 322185, 322186, 322187, 322189, 322190, 322191, 322192, 322194, 322195, 322196, 322197, 322198, 322202, 322203, 322205, 322208, 322209, 322210, 322211, 322212, 322222, 322226, 322231, 322244, 322249, 322259, 322260, 322261, 322269, 322273, 322274, 322279, 322283, 322285, 322311, 323752, 323776, 323803, 323822, 323918, 323968, 324030, 324056, 324137, 324144, 324290, 324855, 324864, 325036,
325048, 325622, 325635, 325653, 325667, 325677, 325700, 325779, 325817, 325850, 325857, 325861, 325867, 325881, 325896, 325908, 325965, 326003, 326047, 326060, 326108, 326116, 326121, 326130, 326139, 326187, 326214, 330307, 330308, 330310, 330311, 330312, 330313, 330314, 330316, 330317, 330318, 330319, 330320, 330321, 330324, 330325, 330327, 330332, 330333, 330336, 330337, 330339, 330341, 330429, 330446, 330465, 330466, 330468, 330476, 330478, 330479, 330480, 330481, 330487, 330491, 330492, 330494, 330496, 330599, 330614, 330616, 330621, 330624, 330625, 330628, 330644, 331269, 331298, 333635, 338420, 338450, 338593, 338598, 338665, 384109 (384150 on tang), 386537, 386502, 386522, 386537, 386632, 386656, 396987, 398554, 398650 (386602 on tang), 398983, 401404, 401374, 421577, 423099.
Marlin Model 1894 or 94 carbine, cal. .44-40, with 15 inch barrel, S/N 425082.
* Marlin, Model 1894 carbine, cal. .44-40, with factory fitted 15 inch barrel, S/N's 386612, 425194.
Marlin Model 1895 or 95 carbine, cal. .38-56, with 15 inch barrel, S/N 167406.
Marlin Model 1895 or 95 carbine, cal. .40-65, with 15 inch barrel, S/Ns 313644, 315054.
Marlin Model 1895 or 95 carbine, cal. .45-70, with 15 inch barrel, S/Ns 313669, 313673, 313683,
313684, 313688.
Mauser, commercial Luger Artillery model semiautomatic pistols cal. 9mm, Mauser banner marked, produced under contract for the Royal Thai Police accompanied by original, German mfd., detachable wooden shoulder stocks.
Mauser, model 1896 semiautomatic pistol accompanied by original German mfd. detachable wooden holster/shoulder stocks, all semiautomatic German mfd. variations produced prior to 1940, any caliber.
Mauser, Pistol-Carbine, model 1896, 7.63mm, with shoulder stock and 11-3/4" to 16" barrel.
Mauser, model 1902, 6 and 10 shot magazine capacity, semiautomatic pistols in cal. 7.63 x 25mm (.30 Mauser), having the distinctive hammer safety, barrel lengths of either 3.9 or 5.5", and accompanied by an original detachable wooden holster/shoulder stock.
Mauser, model 1912/14 pistol, 9mm Mauser short or .45 ACP, with original detachable wooden holster/shoulder stock and 5" barrel.
E. Mayer single shot handgun, no S/N, cal .38-55 smoothbore, barrel length 14-1/2".
Military type Nambu pistol, model 1904, cal. 8mm Nambu with an accompanying original detachable telescoping wooden holster/shoulder stock.
One Pocket Creedmores and other original pocket rifles with extension shoulder stocks, cal. .22, made by Samuel Watson Johnson (1838-1903).
OSS Glove Pistol, caliber .38 S&W or .38 special.
OSS "Liberator" pistol, .45 ACP or 9mm.
Remington Flare (Very) Pistol, Mark III, 10 gauge.
Royal, semiautomatic pistol, cal. 7.63 x 25mm (.30 Mauser) having an integral 10 or 20 round magazine, 5-1/2", 6-1/4", or 7-1/8" barrel, and accompanied by an original Spanish mfd. detachable holster/stock.
Sedgley, Mark V, 10 gauge, signal pistol.
The Shatuck "Unique" palm gun in .22 and .32 cal. rimfire.
Smith & Wesson, model Military and Police revolver, cal. .38, S/N 112037, with original Ideal holster/shoulder stock.
Smith & Wesson, model 40, Light Rifle, caliber 9mm parabellum.
Spanish Star, model A, semiautomatic pistol in cals. 7.63 Mauser, 9mm parabellum, 9mm long, .38 ACP and .45 ACP, accompanied by original Spanish mfd. detachable wooden holster/shoulder stock.
Spanish mfd. copies of the Mauser, model 1896, semiautomatic pistol produced prior to 1946 in cal. 7.63mm or 9mm and having either integral or detachable magazines; accompanied by original Spanish mfd. detachable wooden holster/shoulder stock.
Stevens, Rifle, No. 20, w/smooth bore barrel for .22 and .32 rimfire shot cartridges.
Stevens, Reliable Pocket Rifle, second issue, cal. .22 long rifle or .22 Stevens-Pope.
Stevens, New model Pocket Rifle, first issue, caliber .22.
Stevens, New model Pocket Rifle, second issue, cal. .22 short, long or long rifle rimfire, .22 WRF, .32 long centerfire.
Stevens, New model Pocket Rifle No. 40, calibers: .22 long, rifle, .22 WRF, .22 Stevens-Pope, and .32 long centerfire.
Stevens, Hunter's Pet No. 34 Pocket Rifle, cal. .22 short rimfire to .44-40 WCF.
Stevens, Vernier Hunter's Pet No. 34 1/2 Pocket Rifle, cal. .22 short .44-40 WCF.
Stevens, Vernier New model Pocket Rifle 40 1/2, cal. .22 long rifle, .22 WRF, .22 Stevens-Pope, .32 long centerfire.
Stevens, 1898 New model Pocket Shotgun, in cals. .38-40 and .44-40.
Stevens, Number 39, New model Pocket Shotgun, cals. .38-40 and .44-40.
Stevens, 44-1/2 rifle, .22 cal. S/N 11006 with two piece barrel owned by A.O. Neidner, Malden, MA.
Steyr Hahn, model 1911/12, semiautomatic pistol, cal. 9mm Steyr or 9mm parabellum with 5" barrel and accompanied by an original European detachable holsterstock.
Strong, Breech Loading Salute Cannon, 10 gauge, mfd. by Strong Firearms Co., New Haven, CT after 1898.
Swedish, model P-40 Lahti, semiautomatic pistol, in cal. 9mm parabellum, accompanied by original Swedish detachable wooden holster/shoulder stock.
The Taylor "Fur Getter" mfd. by the F.C. Taylor Fur Company, St. Louis, MO, .22 cal. rimfire.
* The Taylor "Sure Shot" Trap Sun manufactured by or for the F.C. Taylor Fur Company, St. Louis, Missouri, .38 caliber and having a smooth bore.
U.S. Coast Guard 37mm Deck Cannon, S/N M1-1983.
U.S., Mark II, 10 gauge signal pistols.
Walther, model 1937, pistol, "Armee Pistols," 9mm parabellum, with original detachable shoulder stock and 4.9" barrel.
Webley & Scott pistol, Mark 1, No. 2, .455 cal., with original detachable shoulder stock.
Winchester Model 36, shotgun, 9mm rimfire.
Winchester Model 1873 carbine, cal. .32-20 WCF, with 14 inch barrel, S/N 695081 B.
Winchester Model 1873 carbine, caliber .32 WCF, with a 15-inch barrel, S/N 382028.
Winchester Model 1873 carbine, cal. .44-40 WCF, with 14 inch barrel, S/Ns 612999B, 710976B, 719510B.
Winchester Model 1873 carbine, cal. .44-40 WCF, with 15 inch barrel, S/Ns 579080B, ATF-33300-252.
Winchester Model 1885 carbine, cal. .25-35, with 15 inch barrel S/N 104783.
Winchester Model 1885 carbine, cal. .44-40 WCF, with 15 inch barrel, S/N 102429.
Winchester Model 1886 Line Throwing Gun, cal. .45-70 smoothbore, with 14-1/2 inch barrel, S/Ns 154228, 154229, 154231, 154232, 154256, 154257, 154258, 154259, 154260, 154262, 154263, 154264, 154265, 154266, 154267, 154268, 154269, 154270, 154271, 154274, 154287, 154301, 154304, 154305, 154308, 154319, 154320, 154321, 154322, 154327, 154328, 154331, 154332, 154334, 154336, 154337, 164338, 154339, 154340, 154342, 154345, 154346, 154347, 154348 154349, 154350, 154351, 154352, 154355, 154356, 154357, 154359, 154360, 154365, 154366 154384, 154385, 154388, 154390, 154393, 154396, 154397, 154398, 154402, 154403, 154404 154406, 154409, 154411, 154413, 154414, 154415, 154418, 154419, 154420, 154422, 154424 154427, 154428, 154429, 154437, 154438, 154439, 154440, 154450, 154451, 154452, 154453 154455, 154463, 154464, 154465, 154466, 154467, 154468, 154471, 154476, 154511, 154512 154514, 154515, 154516, 154517, 154520, 154521, 154522, 154523, 154524, 154525, 154526 154527, 154528, 154529, 154531, 154532, 154548, 154550, 154551, 154552, 154554, 154555 154556, 154557, 154558, 154562, 154564, 154565, 154566, 154567, 154568, 154569, 154570 154572, 154573, 154574, 154588, 154589, 154590, 154591, 154592, 154595, 154598, 154599 154600, 154601, 154602, 154604, 154605, 154607, 154608, 154609, 154610, 154611, 154612 154613, 154616, 154617, 154618, 154619, 154627, 154629, 154631, 154633, 154639, 154640 154642, 154646, 154648, 154650, 154651, 154653, 154654, 154655, 154660, 154661, 154663 154664, 154665, 154666, 154669, 154671, 154672, 154676, 154677, 154682, 154688, 154689 154690, 154693, 154694, 154696, 154697, 154698, 154700, 154702, 154704, 154707, 154708 154709, 154712, 154713, 154714, 154715, 154718, 154719, 154720, 154721, 154722, 154724 154725, 154726, 154730, 154731, 154732, 154735, 154737, 154739, 154741, 154742, 154744 154745, 154747, 154749, 154755, 154764, 154768, 154769, 154771, 154773, 154775, 154776 154777, 154778, 154779, 154780, 154781, 154782, 154789, 154790, 154791, 154793, 154794 154795, 154797, 154798, 154799, 154800, 154801, 154802, 154803, 154804, 154808, 154814 154820, 154821, 154822, 154823, 154824, 154825, 154826, 154827, 154830, 154831, 154833 154834, 154853, 154854, 154855, 154856, 154857, 154858, 154860, 154862, 154865, 154866 154868, 154869, 154870, 154871, 154875, 154878, 154889, 154891, 154892, 154893, 154894 154895, 154896, 154897, 154905, 154906, 154912, 154913, 154914, 154928, 154942.
Winchester Model 1892 or 92 carbine, cal. .25-20 WCF with 14 inch barrel, S/Ns 466396 575644, 765952, 766291, 818777, 819782, 859905, 859912, 903891, 940986.
Winchester Model 1892 or 92 carbine, cal. .25-20 WCF with 15 inch barrel, S/Ns 512237, 692609 846245, 859948, 982371.
Winchester Model 1892 or 92 carbine, cal. .32 WCF with 14 inch barrel, S/N 807261.
Winchester Model 1892 or 92 carbine, cal. .32 WCF with 15 inch barrel, S/N 786820.
Winchester Model 1892 or 92 carbine, cal. .32-20 WCF with a 14 inch barrel, S/Ns 615287, 655804 772706, 807261, 808290, 826022, 837181, 850460, 850556, 859920, 874501, *875174 960471, 983151.
Winchester Model 1892 or 92 carbine, cal. .32-20 WCF with a 15 inch barrel, S/Ns 203439, 475520, 490150, 554549, 800472, 807957.
Winchester Model 1892, cal. .38 WCF, with a 12 inch barrel, S/N 681490.
Winchester Model 1892 carbine, caliber .38 WCF, with a 14-inch barrel, S/N 697846.
* Winchester Model 92 carbine, cal. .38 WCF, with a 14 inch barrel, S/N *672832, 979585.
Winchester Model 1892 carbine, caliber .38 WCF, with a 15-inch barrel, S/N 600577.
Winchester Model 1892 or 92 carbine, cal. .38-40 WCF with 12 inch barrel, S/N 290849.
Winchester Model 1892 or 92 carbine, cal. .38-40 WCF with 14 inch barrel, S/Ns 288562, 475736, 653874, 667950, 679709, 847750, 848745, 848873, 850811, 887641, 975236, 998845.
Winchester Model 1892 or 92 carbine, cal. .38-40 WCF with 15 inch barrel, S/Ns 179252, 408307, 449677, 804878, 832039, 842788, 843000.
* Winchester Model 1892 carbine, cal. .44 WCF, S/N 499886, with factory fitted 14 inch octagonal barrel.
* Winchester Model 1892 carbine, cal. .44 WCF, S/N 417473, with factory fitted 14 inch barrel
Winchester Model 1892 or 92 carbine, cal. .44 WCF, with 14 inch barrel, S/Ns *237383, 290545, 319311, 323486, 324906, 325258, *353128, *373701, *394598, *409959, 410127, 410461, 411197, 417104, 417274, 471250, *558135, *613228, *760056, 710257, 760298, 761294, 814474, 845258, *861322, *879896, 940939, *953433, *977206, *978960, 980094, *982178, *982509, *ATF-33100012.
Winchester carbine, Model 1892, caliber .44 WCF, barrel length 14 1/8 inches, S/N 895675.
Winchester Model 1892 or 92 carbine, cal. .44-40 WCF, with 14 inch barrel, S/Ns 268828, 319250 320567, 323075, 323300, 323428, 324318, 325248, 325618, 326147, 340471, 349471, 407898, 409715, 410033, 417996, 446526, 475736, 495045, 583403, 600903, 710267, 743634, 761295, 819003, 820170, 822013, 823943, 824396, 842679, 852636, 861856, 879282,890745, 895062, 895675, 897168, 898838, 898938, 921643, 925550, 948932, 976596, 977351, 977828, 978462, 979227, 979429, 980055, 980097, 980478, 981212, 982254, 982483, 982562, 984073, 987239, 987305, 989144, 993799, 999398.
Winchester Model 1892 carbine, caliber .44 WCF, with a 15 inch barrel, S/N's *302989, *338220, 820507, 824056, 844314, 850990, 893373, *894230, *971295, *995690, 998263, 998466, 998780.
Winchester Model 1892 or 92 carbine, cal. .44-40 WCF, with 15 inch barrel, S/Ns 197124 381573, 414906, 511099, 518748, 650991, 659700, 756846, 816422, 820590, 823559, 837672 844464, 881573, 886301, 895657, 896494, 905158, 937022, 954796, 977103, 988160, 990107 991595, 994171, 996523, 997305, 998059, 998419, 998461, 998679, 998741, 998761, 998844 998852.
Winchester Model 1894 or 94 carbine, cal. .25-35, with 14 inch barrel, S/Ns 814142, 865268.
Winchester Model 1894 or 94 carbine, cal. .25-35, with 15 inch barrel, S/Ns *155531, 444585, 542097, 589609, 812956.
Winchester Model 1894 or 94 carbine, cal. .30-30 WCF, with 14 inch barrel, S/Ns 462548, 505307, 793359, 805815, 842523, 864415.
Winchester Model 1894 carbine, caliber .30 WCF, S/N 321470 with factory fitted 14 inch octagonal barrel.
* Winchester Model 1894 carbine, cal. .30 WCF, S/N's 1017717, 1033895, with factory fitted 15 inch barrel.
* Winchester Model 94 carbine, cal. .30 WCF, S/N 662205, with factory fitted 15 inch barrel.
Winchester Model 1894 or 94 carbine, cal. .30 WCF, with a 15 inch barrel, S/Ns 502433, 503849, 505391, 507520, *639857, 640789, 758048, 801966, *820102, 864818, 885107, 885500, 909096, *910366, *923115, 923639, 937406, *959256, *981707, *992287, 998264, *1017931, *1021206, 1029281, 1034950, 1040702, 1046882, *1040987, *1065446, *1065843, *1066548.
* Winchester Model 1894, .30 WCF caliber, S/N's 1052837, 933906, 910064, 922873 having a 15-inch barrel.
* Winchester Model 1894, cal. .30-30 WCF, S/N 848830, with original 15 inch unserviceable barrel.
Winchester Model 1894 or 94 carbine, cal. .30-30 WCF, with 15 inch barrel, S/Ns 273691 315250, 318257, 324318, 360587, 368971, 373033, 433426, 444269, 447421, 464604, 467286 478529, 481877, 486201, 491869, 495342, 554439, 554727, 559831, 593839, 602691, 638701 639264, 661329, 662192, 701730, 758406, 790018, 790761, 794467, 802743, 806780, 815570 820101, 820375, 820413, 839880, 840123, 857252, 862245, 868769, 868912, 869576, 870637 871116, 871276, 872505, 882967, 883055, 884272, 885127, 885975, 887409, 910758, 923215 928280, 933642, 933902, 938370, 943237, 952507, 958812, 958947, 959421, 959486 972583, 973001, 973063, 976472, 981452, 981456, 986621, 990851, 991114, 992557, 995540 995578, 995675, 998829, 1004615, 1004958, 1009373, 1009414, 1013465, 1025302, 1032798 1033898, 1033973, 1034037, 1040905, 1046737, 1051727, 1051776, 1052211, 1052749, 1052851 1052982, 1057043, 1059318, 1066951, 1068292, 1072755, 1080781, 1086226, 1090460.
Winchester Model 1894 or 94 carbine, cal. .32 Win. Spl., with 14 inch barrel, S/N 781211, *889043.
Winchester Model 1894 or 94 carbine, cal. .32 Win. Spl., with 15 inch barrel, S/Ns 437440, *840832 859421, 860098, 880845, 1006715.
Winchester Model 1894 or 94 carbine, cal. .32-40 WCF, with 15 inch barrel, S/N 355640, 894588.
Winchester Model 1894 or 94 carbine, cal. .38-55 WCF, with 15 inch barrel, S/N 247646.
Winchester, 1902, pistol made from a rifle, cal. .22, produced at factory, having no S/N, buthaving a decorated stock and accompanied by documents denoting its use by Mr. NedTupperwein.

Posted: 7/18/2008 11:14:44 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
Could it be fired from the shoulder? Could should not be applicable, or AR pistols would be SBRs.

AR pistols do not have a stock permanently collapsed or otherwise. If it did have one even just behind the receiver a person could fire it from the shoulder. Then it would likely be argued that it was intended to work that way.

You're asking if the stock could be used as a stock. I thought you were asking if the part behind the receiver could be used as a stock, which is why I used the AR as an example. So, you're right, ARs aren't a good example.

Quoted:
There have been several "pistol" versions of carbines sold with the folding stock permanently welded in the closed position. At such point, the "stock" is nothing more than decorative dead-weight as it does not provide the ability to shoot from the shoulder.

Does anyone know of legal precedent in these cases?

I'm asking about either a fabricating a buttplate that looks like a stock (unweildy pistol part) OR a stock that has been neutered and then attached in place of a buttplate.

If either one is legal, I could get the parts and customize the pistol. For ease of manufacturing, the second option would be better.

Posted: 7/18/2008 11:58:00 AM EDT

[#14]

Depending on the type of stock you use you could end up making an AOW. I saw a guy with a Ruger Charger and a welded closed Butler Creek folder on it. Looked cool and the stock could not be used as a stock, but given the shape and style of the stock he had inadvertently created a vertical pistol grip. Not sure what he did with it after that.

Posted: 7/18/2008 3:21:37 PM EDT

[#15]

How about a sketch or photoshop of what you are talking about?

I can't figure out how buttplate (of a pistol)/stock mix. Is this buttplate of the stock flat or curved as to be positioned against something, like a shoulder, and will it be perpendicular to the bore such as a rifle buttplate? If you are talking about just a really short stock I don't see how you could convince a rabid agent (or a jury) that it wasn't intended to be used as a stock regardless of the cheekweld you might get.

I'm only trying to piece together enough to know what you are talking about.

Posted: 7/18/2008 3:34:00 PM EDT

[#16]

Colt, Model 1911 pistol, cal. .38 Super, S/N 16212, accompanied by an original "Multi-Shot Riot and Anti-Bandit" shoulder stock as originally mfd. by Monarch Arms Sales Company, Los Angeles, California, in the early 1930's

I want this one!!

Posted: 7/18/2008 3:35:52 PM EDT

[#17]

"designed to be fired from the shoulder"

Posted: 7/18/2008 3:43:19 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Please let us know where the ATF takes you so we can send you ghey pron.

Yep!

Posted: 7/18/2008 4:38:42 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Is this buttplate of the stock flat or curved as to be positioned against something, like a shoulder, and will it be perpendicular to the bore such as a rifle buttplate?

I think the side of the buttplate farthest from the muzzle would be concave vertically. Hopefully that makes sense.

Quoted:
Depending on the type of stock you use you could end up making an AOW....the stock could not be used as a stock, but given the shape and style of the stock he had inadvertently created a vertical pistol grip.

This might work. It might be able to be used as a second vertical grip, but it wouldn't be a forward grip, it'd be rearward. Kinda like an extended beavertail could be used as a grip (except a beavertail that came that far backwards from the receiver would be ALOT more usable as a stock than my idea).

But, hmm, I DO already have a trust for that kinda AOW stuff...

Quoted:
How about a sketch or photoshop of what you are talking about? I can't figure out how buttplate...

These pistols all have buttplates:

Quoted:
I'm only trying to piece together enough to know what you are talking about.

I know I'm being vague. If it turns out to be legal to use the part I'm contemplating making, my idea may be marketable, and I'd like to protect that. So I'm not trying to be a pain, it just comes with the territory.

Quoted:
"designed to be fired from the shoulder"

Yes, but where would I find the actual written definitions from the legislature (before the ATF interprets it of course)? Which Title or CFR would it be in?

Posted: 7/18/2008 6:48:42 PM EDT

[#20]

Firearms Technology Branch
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405

Posted: 7/18/2008 11:08:48 PM EDT

[#21]

Yeah, I think a really short buttstock = prison (unless you become a manufacturer or move to a free state & build your SBR legally).

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:41:01 AM EDT

[#22]

duh.

Posted: 7/19/2008 6:18:36 AM EDT

[#23]

Well, I was kind of thinking that adding a neutered stock WOULD be a bad idea, as it's still a stock and a short barrel.

But replacing a buttplate with an oddly shaped buttplate that was never "designed or intended to fired from the shoulder" MIGHT just be allowable, as no stock is being added.

Guess I'll be having to finish the conceptual design so I can include a drawing when I write the ATF.

Posted: 7/19/2008 9:31:52 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
"designed to be fired from the shoulder"

Yes, but where would I find the actual written definitions from the legislature (before the ATF interprets it of course)? Which Title or CFR would it be in?

For WA you have 9.41.010 Terms Defined

Unless the context clearly requires otherwise, the definitions in this section apply throughout this chapter.

(1) "Firearm" means a weapon or device from which a projectile or projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder.

(2) "Pistol" means any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, or is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.

(3) "Rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

(4) "Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle by any means of modification if such modified weapon has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

(5) "Shotgun" means a weapon with one or more barrels, designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

(6) "Short-barreled shotgun" means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun by any means of modification if such modified weapon has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

(7) "Machine gun" means any firearm known as a machine gun, mechanical rifle, submachine gun, or any other mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot and having a reservoir clip, disc, drum, belt, or other separable mechanical device for storing, carrying, or supplying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism, or instrument, and fired therefrom at the rate of five or more shots per second.

(8) "Antique firearm" means a firearm or replica of a firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

<<snip>>

(16) "Barrel length" means the distance from the bolt face of a closed action down the length of the axis of the bore to the crown of the muzzle, or in the case of a barrel with attachments to the end of any legal device permanently attached to the end of the muzzle.

<<snip>>

Posted: 7/19/2008 10:24:29 AM EDT

[#25]

I think I know what you're thinking about.

A concave buttplate that is vertical. Similar to the end portion of a collapsible stock that rests against the shoulder.

The buttplate could then be welded permanently to the back of the AR receiver (or buffer spring tube).

You could then shoot the AR pistol from the shoulder.

I don't know if that's illegal (since intent would be to shoot from shoulder???)

An alternative would be to attach the buttplate to the shoulder (becomes a shoulder pad) and then you can rest the AR pistol against the shoulder pad to shoot.

I don't know if that would be illegal or legal either

Posted: 7/19/2008 10:51:46 AM EDT

[#26]

Info on Page 2!

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:29:31 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
I think I know what you're thinking about.
A concave buttplate that is vertical. Similar to the end portion of a collapsible stock that rests against the shoulder.
The buttplate could then be welded permanently to the back of the AR receiver (or buffer spring tube).
You could then shoot the AR pistol from the shoulder.

You got the vertical concave buttplate correct

but an AR is a poor example, as what you are mentioning would be at the rear end of the buffer tube 4-8" behind the receiver. I'm thinking of something that (if installed on an AR,) would attach in place of the buffer tube, and only extend about 1-2" from the back of the reciever. So that's why an AR is a poor example.

Quoted:
I don't know if that's illegal (since intent would be to shoot from shoulder???)

What you are describing (intent to shoulder fire) would be illegal. The intent of the part I am proposing is entirely cosmetic, and would not change the way a weapon is handled. Not to mention if you did place the pistol against your shoulder to fire, you'd probably be forced to use two hands on the pistol, just to maintain control.

If you designed it to use two hands, I think it'd fall under an AOW definition.

Quoted:
An alternative would be to attach the buttplate to the shoulder (becomes a shoulder pad) and then you can rest the AR pistol against the shoulder pad to shoot.
I don't know if that would be illegal or legal either

That would be an odd looking shoulder pad, and would be pointless unless I intended to shoulder fire the weapon. But you're not the first to suggest that as a solution to my problem.

More importantly, it would not give the actual firearm the cosmetics I am looking for.

Quoted:
I'll just ignore post #3 in this thread where you linked to the WA definition in RED, and quote half the law for you.

Thanks anyways, but I was looking for a Federal level definition like Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 44.

According to that fed definition, I'm looking at a handgun or maybe an AOW. So I guess there's hope if I write them afterall.

Posted: 7/19/2008 3:59:59 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Thanks anyways, but I was looking for a Federal level definition like Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 44.

According to that fed definition, I'm looking at a handgun or maybe an AOW. So I guess there's hope if I write them afterall.

I'm not aware of anyplace in the USC or CFR that you'll find the definition/limits for what constitutes a stock on a long gun.

What you'd be looking for is a ruling, opinion, or a case where the BATF has stated something along the lines of:

When referring to weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder the term "stock" is generally held to be the part of a firearm that is used to brace, steady or rest the firearm against the firers body, generally but not limited to the upper torso or upper arm, during aiming or firing.

and the citations given in the ruling, case, or opinion.