Friends,

As some of you might remember, I'm the fellow who recently suggested that another member shut the fuck up.  I did it because it was my fondest hope that he would shut the fuck up.

Then I went away for the weekend, and was surprised to see the shit storm of controversy I managed to cause.  Two locked threads, and some very friendly instant messages waiting for me.  

I'm back in town, and I'm coming in after the fact, but I'd like the chance to talk about why I did what I did.

The thread was about Randy Newman.  Randy Newman is awesome, but Randy Newman is also political.  It sparked a general discussion about the impact of a standing army on government - the old thing that Ike (Republican, and a General) warned us about

At least one of the people who posted, talking about the impact of a standing army on the government, is known around here as an anti-government hothead.  Now in this particular thread, our anti-government hothead didn't sling any insults.  He talked some founding fathers, and talked about how Rome handled domestic discontent (true, by the by - check your Gibbon).  Apparently however, the very fact that he typed anything at all ever was too much for the fellow I told to shut the fuck up.  

That person then posted an insulting message, full of scorn, insults and risible emoticons.  According to this person, I guess it's not even acceptable to wonder about the direction society is headed.  Nope.  An argument against a standing army equals an attack on that righteous man.  He is a bully, at the head of an army of emoticons.

Here's the thing about the fellow I told to shut the fuck up - he lives to be insulted.  He only feels good when he's angry, because something is broken inside him.  When he's angry, things are nice and simple for him - all he has to do is attack, attack, attack.  The rest of the time, I think life probably seems pretty shitty.

If he wants to live his life that way, that's just fine.  But the thing is, his right to act like a bully ends right where my right to talk about Randy Newman begins.  I've watched this man turn too many threads into his personal punching bags.  In my opinion, it is time for him to shut the fuck up.   That's only my opinion, but it's based on a lot of experience and thought.

Thanks for reading, and for letting me speak my piece.  I was dismayed to come home and see what I'd wrought.  If you don't agree with me, I hope I've at least been able to shed some light on the reasons for my actions.  Take care, and happy damn Sunday evening.

-DirtyBird

Well, fuckittydoodahday. The shit I miss when I'm on the road. Well, just for the record, I like Randy Newman. I bought his first album, on 8-track tape, even. My favorite is Political Science. And now, I will STFU!

One word.....Beer.

Quoted: One word.....Beer.

"It's cheaper than therapy"

IBTOG


and

Beer

Randy Newman

Militia

Constitution


All are good!

I have to admit, we do put General Discussion to shame sometimes.  I had a hard time believing a Randy Newman post could turn into a small shitstorm, but it did.  Keeps thing intersting, glad you guys are all associates, if not friends.

Big deal...

Just another exciting day in WAHTF, I would not want to hang out here if we were as F-ing dull as California, or Texas...

Quoted: Big deal... Just another exciting day in WAHTF, I would not want to hang out here if we were as F-ing dull as California, or Texas...

OMG YOU FLAMING ANTBURNER...  Spreading hatred across the states!

LOL Hey Dirtybird... How ya think I feel?  It was my thread...  And it seems my threads stand a decent chance of getting locked (mind you usually at my request to stop the shit storm)...  I never thought my topics are very emotionally charged, but it seems to happen pretty often.

Randy's song imo was meant to get a person to take a bit of stock in their life and the health of the country.  Make you feel a little bit better that we dont live under other former tyrannical leaders around the world but also give pause and think out our current situation... How we are doing as a nation... Could things be done better?  Is it peachy keen?

If it makes anyone to the right of strat and the left of 161 stop and think then perhaps some more reasonable discussion could be used.

I like that everyone can express their opinions, we learn and grow from having our ideas challenged, in a reasonable and intelligent manner.

As to the rest - welcome to the Internet

Quoted: LOL Hey Dirtybird... How ya think I feel?  It was my thread...  And it seems my threads stand a decent chance of getting locked (mind you usually at my request to stop the shit storm)...  I never thought my topics are very emotionally charged, but it seems to happen pretty often. Randy's song imo was meant to get a person to take a bit of stock in their life and the health of the country.  Make you feel a little bit better that we dont live under other former tyrannical leaders around the world but also give pause and think out our current situation... How we are doing as a nation... Could things be done better?  Is it peachy keen? If it makes anyone to the right of strat and the left of 161 stop and think then perhaps some more reasonable discussion could be used.

I'm just here for the shitstorm, actually.

I was the first to read this post, not knowing to prior history i didnt reply. The temptation was to post (Shut the fuck up!)  and leave..... would that of been funny?

Good post 'bird.  I don't mind discussion about how the .gov is doing (They work for us right?).  I do, however take issue when certain people decide to prod an argument (we'll call it trolling).  Fighting for the sake of fighting shows a lack of intelligence and a lack of ability to look at things objectively.  I don't always agree with either side of the "militia" argument, which is fine.  I do, however, disagree with the idea of picking a fight, for the sake of picking a fight.  I hit cancel more times than I can count when I'm done typing out a post.  Some things are personal issues and not the HTF's issue.  You gain nothing by stirring the pot.  You gain everything by reading opinions and judging by logic, not emotion.

By default, as a prior service member, I want to believe that everything the .gov does is good, and want to defend our military with everything I can.  Truth is, it is with good intentions, which isn't always "good".  At the same time, everything the .gov does is not "bad" either, it's existence is necessary, we the people put it there, it's scope is what may not be.  I wish that our "discussions" of "militia", "Gubberment", and "Jack booted thugs" could be a bit more objective, and not a emotional rant that it is all bad or all good. Some thing should change, but some are just fine as they are.

Flame on kiddos.

Quoted: Well, fuckittydoodahday. The shit I miss when I'm on the road. Well, just for the record, I like Randy Newman. I bought his first album, on 8-track tape, even. My favorite is Political Science. And now, I will STFU!

An 8-track tape is not an album. STFU!!

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=15&t=277522

161 is more fun than a barrel of militias.

Quoted: <snip> I hit cancel more times than I can count when I'm done typing out a post.   <snip>

Jesus!  If you never hit cancel (and didn't catch teh bannination), your post count would possibly need to be expressed in scientific notation!

I for one seem to think Rune75 posts a good bit about religion and anti-conservativism. Of course that is what I am looking for so maybe others don't see it.

If I'm correct then it can be expected shitstorms and locks will ensue. If I'm wrong then there must be some unexplainable thing happening (at least not explainable in an acceptable way for me to see through my beet red [white and blue] colored glasses).

Don't sweat it Dirtybird,

He's made an ass of himself in GD as well. I don't agree with Strat all the time, but he's always a gentleman. Can't say that about the lil' general of emotemen.

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Quoted: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=15&t=277522 161 is more fun than a barrel of militias.

More like Terry Jacks,
A one-wonder wonder with too much airplay.

Quoted: Friends, As some of you might remember, I'm the fellow who recently suggested that another member shut the fuck up.  I did it because it was my fondest hope that he would shut the fuck up. Then I went away for the weekend, and was surprised to see the shit storm of controversy I managed to cause.  Two locked threads, and some very friendly instant messages waiting for me.   I'm back in town, and I'm coming in after the fact, but I'd like the chance to talk about why I did what I did. The thread was about Randy Newman.  Randy Newman is awesome, but Randy Newman is also political.  It sparked a general discussion about the impact of a standing army on government - the old thing that Ike (Republican, and a General) warned us about At least one of the people who posted, talking about the impact of a standing army on the government, is known around here as an anti-government hothead.  Now in this particular thread, our anti-government hothead didn't sling any insults.  He talked some founding fathers, and talked about how Rome handled domestic discontent (true, by the by - check your Gibbon).  Apparently however, the very fact that he typed anything at all ever was too much for the fellow I told to shut the fuck up.   That person then posted an insulting message, full of scorn, insults and risible emoticons.  According to this person, I guess it's not even acceptable to wonder about the direction society is headed.  Nope.  An argument against a standing army equals an attack on that righteous man.  He is a bully, at the head of an army of emoticons. Here's the thing about the fellow I told to shut the fuck up - he lives to be insulted.  He only feels good when he's angry, because something is broken inside him.  When he's angry, things are nice and simple for him - all he has to do is attack, attack, attack.  The rest of the time, I think life probably seems pretty shitty. If he wants to live his life that way, that's just fine.  But the thing is, his right to act like a bully ends right where my right to talk about Randy Newman begins.  I've watched this man turn too many threads into his personal punching bags.  In my opinion, it is time for him to shut the fuck up.   That's only my opinion, but it's based on a lot of experience and thought. Thanks for reading, and for letting me speak my piece.  I was dismayed to come home and see what I'd wrought.  If you don't agree with me, I hope I've at least been able to shed some light on the reasons for my actions.  Take care, and happy damn Sunday evening. -DirtyBird

So let's get this all out into the open then.  I wish I'd have saved the IM I sent you.  If it's ok with the mods, I'd love for you to copy and past it here.

It's ok for strat to continue his constant diatribe agaisnt the military, but to say anything about him is wrong.  If it had been a one, or a dozen time, thing it probably would have been ok.  But it wasn't.

Strat is fucking worshipped around here and most everyone seems to kiss his ass.  Post an article about people protesting and you'll have some wishing harm against them.  Let strat call a group of cops murderers and thieves and it's as quiet as a soundbooth.  I guess if you only very strongly imply an insult it's ok.  Or if you only attack a large enough group it's ok.  
He's always a gentleman and polite though right?  So what?  A polite insult (badged bandit, opressor, murderer, his anti-Islam statements, whatever) is still an insult is it not?  Is, "you're a fucking idiot," really all that much worse than, "you sir are a buffoon?"  Nothing is done about him until his (or boomer's) posts are so rediculous that they can't be ignored.

Perhaps if you'd served and had half the losses of a brigade in your company you just might be a bit more sensitive about why 161 is the way he is.  I wouldn't be surprised if he's got a touch of PTSD.

I don't care what a person is in real life versus online.  To me that just makes one a wimp if they have to hide behind their keyboard.

The militia are wannabes, racists, and want to take down the government by force.  If they weren't fat, lazy stupid slobs, they might be dangerous.  This, based on past postings, should be an ok statement right?  It's not mentioning any names.
Of course not.  But it's ok the other way around?

Standing Army?  That old bullshit.  If the founding fathers were so smart and so afraid of one, why are they the ones that started the damn thing?  The Army has never went away.  Not 2 years after the Constitution was signed, not 200 years.

Yeah, I know phil and odt.  I'm already on very, very thin ice and am probably kicking in some cracks with this post.  But as I've less chance of living long enough to even double my current membership time, I sort of don't care anymore. Hell, I'm probably suffering a mild case of depression and have a sleep disorder, both of which tend to cause anger issues in males (when we get depressed we lash out, while women are more likely to cry.  Something about our make up I guess).  And I'll probably regret all this later, but for right now fuck it.  And, no I'm not looking for sympathy.  I've always been open about shit. I just don't cary.  It's disgusting seeing some get attacked for doing less than what others do constantly.

Last year 161 posted about the Washington Militia Ball, and yes folks that the god damn name of it.  It was to let those who aren't in the guard anymore and don't get newsletters or whatever, know when it was.  And guess what happened.  Strat and his buddies jumped in and hijacked it.  It was a fucking dance and strat couldn't leave it alone.
Talk about the sales tax on a candy bar and strat will be there talking about how the government is raping us.

You know some of the direction I'm coming from.  So whatever happens happens.  Ban me, suspend me, whatever.

C'est la vie!  Such is life.

Quoted: It's ok for strat to continue his constant diatribe agaisnt the military, but to say anything about him is wrong.

It is perfectly alright to rant about the .mil, the .gov, damn near anything, until you make it personal.  When anything negative, provocative, inflammatory, or just plain wrong is aimed directly at you, Strat, or anyone else, it violates the CoC.  Go read it.  It will clear some things up for you regarding this little "problem/misunderstanding".

Or if you only attack a large enough group it's ok.

Yup.  Complain about a group of cops, or a group of politicians, public figures, etc., thats fine.  Make it personal against someone here, not fine.  Starting to get it?

A polite insult (badged bandit, opressor, murderer, his anti-Islam statements, whatever) is still an insult is it not?  Is, "you're a fucking idiot," really all that much worse than, "you sir are a buffoon?"  Nothing is done about him until his (or boomer's) posts are so rediculous that they can't be ignored.

Where the problem lies is in how people respond to him or those like him (no offense, but it makes the point).  First rule of not getting offended:  Don't get offended.  If you let yourself get offended, don't display it here.  It's simple, really.

Perhaps if you'd served and had half the losses of a brigade in your company you just might be a bit more sensitive about why 161 is the way he is.  I wouldn't be surprised if he's got a touch of PTSD.

The .mil wouldn't accept me.  I have too many medical problems, and I was smart enough/stupid enough (however you want to look at it, I really don't care) to be honest about them, so I was denied the opportunity.  Do I need to have any real .mil experience to be able to understand a .mil members viewpoint about losses?  No.  That should be all the explanation you need, if you have an open mind.  If not, I can't help you.
I don't care what a person is in real life versus online.  To me that just makes one a wimp if they have to hide behind their keyboard.
You don't really believe this, or maybe it wouldn't get to you.

Doesn't the whole damn thing get old after a while for everybody, including those obvious persons involved?  Is it really worth the time and effort to be so damn repetitious and boring slinging the same shit back and forth, time after time?  And why does anyone from either side feel like if it is started, they have a responsibility to finish it?  That is just stupid.

In some ways, there is some growing up that needs to be done with this issue.  Some folks just can't seem to leave it alone, and let it will die a quiet death, and never be a problem again until someone new sees it and pokes it with a stick, then we can start all over again fresh and I can come around again and be an asshole by calling all of you childish.

I was that childish, easily offended person, and I got out of it.  If I can do it, any of you can.An ARFcom WA HTF success story if I do say so myself!

Flame away!!

Quoted: Nothing is done about him until his (or boomer's) posts are so rediculous that they can't be ignored.

Why am I being drug into this? What have I ever posted that was so ridiculous or offensive that it could not be ignored? Are you simply unable to seperate Strat's postings as a strict constitutionalist from my own taking to task those who can find nothing better to do than to remind us that they will defend the government no matter how oppressive it may become and ridiculing the notion of the militia as espoused by those who established our very country? Maybe you are still upset about my reference to security guards or something?

For the record, it has been a long time since I have received any form of official censure, rebuke, or disciplinary action here and even then it was from a moderator who was eventually banned himself.

And finally, for whatever it's worth, some time ago I had an epiphany similar to DirtyBird's. It is just not worth bothering to engage the few here who scorn the constitution, it's authors, their idea of what the militia should encompass, and freedom in general. Whether they do it from genuine beliefs or pure trollish behavior I do not know nor any longer care. Nobody's opinions are being changed and the debate is simply dragging the the forum into the gutter. Strat's posts are what they are. I do not always agree with his opinions, but I have little doubt that if the founders of our country were alive today they would be disappointed, disturbed, and likely calling for revolution as well. How difficult is it to simply skip his posts if those ideas cause one so much aggravation?

Quoted: And finally, for whatever it's worth, some time ago I had an epiphany similar to DirtyBird's. It is just not worth bothering to engage the few here who scorn the constitution, it's authors, their idea of what the militia should encompass, and freedom in general. Whether they do it from genuine beliefs or pure trollish behavior I do not know nor any longer care. Nobody's opinions are being changed and the debate is simply dragging the the forum into the gutter. Start's posts are what they are. I do not always agree with his opinions, but I have little doubt that if the founders of our country were alive today they would be disappointed, disturbed, and likely calling for revolution as well. How difficult is to simply skip his posts if those ideas cause one so much aggravation?

+1

That's about where I am.  

There was a guy here a while back who really didn't care for me and we exchanged some words, even some personal attacks and one of his friends sent me an IM telling me what I'm going to say now.  "Take it to the pit."





ETA - I Gots me page two BITCHES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quoted: First rule of not getting offended:  Don't get offended.  If you let yourself get offended, don't display it here.  It's simple, really.

And YOPD wins the "sum it all up" prize!

Quoted: Quoted: Nothing is done about him until his (or boomer's) posts are so rediculous that they can't be ignored. Why am I being drug into this? What have I ever posted that was so ridiculous or offensive that it could not be ignored? Are you simply unable to seperate Strat's postings as a strict constitutionalist from my own taking to task those who can find nothing better to do than to remind us that they will defend the government no matter how oppressive it may become and ridiculing the notion of the militia as espoused by those who established our very country? Maybe you are still upset about my reference to security guards or something? For the record, it has been a long time since I have received any form of official censure, rebuke, or disciplinary action here and even then it was from a moderator who was eventually banned himself. And finally, for whatever it's worth, some time ago I had an epiphany similar to DirtyBird's. It is just not worth bothering to engage the few here who scorn the constitution, it's authors, their idea of what the militia should encompass, and freedom in general. Whether they do it from genuine beliefs or pure trollish behavior I do not know nor any longer care. Nobody's opinions are being changed and the debate is simply dragging the the forum into the gutter. Strat's posts are what they are. I do not always agree with his opinions, but I have little doubt that if the founders of our country were alive today they would be disappointed, disturbed, and likely calling for revolution as well. How difficult is it to simply skip his posts if those ideas cause one so much aggravation?

1. Sorry I was just being a dick by throwing your name in.  That was wrong and I do apologise.

2.  If the founding fathers were here, I'd bet they'd either put up or shut up, and not just talk forever.

3.  If it's so easy for me to skip his posts when they become rants, then why can't people do the same to mine?  Instead of merely giving me the advice that they themselves obviously aren't following.

Quoted: 3.  If it's so easy for me to skip his posts when they become rants, then why can't people do the same to mine?  Instead of merely giving me the advice that they themselves obviously aren't following.

(Sigh)
Oh well.

I have hit cancel quite a few times regarding a military member. Bottom line is if the guy has a life and is such the great warrior he claims to be then why does he have to spew his shit on the the WHTF peasants? To me a warrior that fights for our country does not act like jackass and give the rest a bad name .

I don't know who said it but the quote I'm looking for went something like this:

Great men show there greatness by how they treat little men.

Quoted: Strat is fucking worshipped around here and most everyone seems to kiss his ass.

Doesnt Strat hold a record for most banned person in the WAHTF next to Frisky Ferret or something?

Quoted: I for one seem to think Rune75 posts a good bit about religion and anti-conservativism. Of course that is what I am looking for so maybe others don't see it.

I am not as verbose as PCR so I do not post nearly as often...  so its easier to see the posts of mine that start shit like a rather innocent (imo) Newman song.  I do not intentionally go looking to start anything.

Quoted: We will, all of us, never be able to agree on everything.  Thank God for that, I say.  This place would be damn boring if we all agreed.

I agree with DirtyBird!

Would this be a good place to apologise to the forum as a whole for being a jackass?  No real excuse, I'm just letting the jackasses at work and the lack of sleep get to me and affect my personal life (of all types, not just my online presence).

I think that some of the actions of people her have been exagerrated because of the irritation that htey've presented.

I looked at some of my older posts, and in those I'm in a lot more agreement with what strat says.  About how often times tickets are nothing more than a way to collect money from people (they won't assign blame, but they'll issue a speeding ticket when they were nowhere near the area of the accident), for instance.  Now it seems that I just react and jump the other way when he posts.  It built up and just got stupid.

I think that the reaction that many have to 161 is the same.  Coyote's smart assed remark about 161 being, a "great warrior" and all that.   Look back to an earlier time and he probably didn't seem all that bad.  It just built up over time.

Quoted: Would this be a good place to apologise to the forum as a whole for being a jackass?  No real excuse, I'm just letting the jackasses at work and the lack of sleep get to me and affect my personal life (of all types, not just my online presence). I think that some of the actions of people her have been exagerrated because of the irritation that htey've presented. I looked at some of my older posts, and in those I'm in a lot more agreement with what strat says.  About how often times tickets are nothing more than a way to collect money from people (they won't assign blame, but they'll issue a speeding ticket when they were nowhere near the area of the accident), for instance.  Now it seems that I just react and jump the other way when he posts.  It built up and just got stupid. I think that the reaction that many have to 161 is the same.  Coyote's smart assed remark about 161 being, a "great warrior" and all that.   Look back to an earlier time and he probably didn't seem all that bad.  It just built up over time.

Kudos.  There was a time when I would fight Strat tooth and nail on just about anything he posted.  Most likely due to a reaction to something he said once about our troops.  From then on, I dissagreed 100% with anything he had to say.

Turns out, from time to time, I agree with him entirely or at least in concept.  Sometimes not at all.  I pick my fights, some I stay out of, some I jump in head first.

We've all let the anonymity of the internets get the best of us.  Text (even with smilies) can come across aloof, condecending, and dry.  We've all lost our cool at least once, and we've all had to get our pee-pees slapped over it.

Remember that many of us have met in person, and that most of us live within 50 miles of each other.  Sometimes taking things back channel, perhaps even in person over a beer can settle most of the anger that crops up on the board.

YMMV

Quoted: Quoted: Would this be a good place to apologise to the forum as a whole for being a jackass?  No real excuse, I'm just letting the jackasses at work and the lack of sleep get to me and affect my personal life (of all types, not just my online presence). I think that some of the actions of people her have been exagerrated because of the irritation that htey've presented. I looked at some of my older posts, and in those I'm in a lot more agreement with what strat says.  About how often times tickets are nothing more than a way to collect money from people (they won't assign blame, but they'll issue a speeding ticket when they were nowhere near the area of the accident), for instance.  Now it seems that I just react and jump the other way when he posts.  It built up and just got stupid. I think that the reaction that many have to 161 is the same.  Coyote's smart assed remark about 161 being, a "great warrior" and all that.   Look back to an earlier time and he probably didn't seem all that bad.  It just built up over time. Kudos.  There was a time when I would fight Strat tooth and nail on just about anything he posted.  Most likely due to a reaction to something he said once about our troops.  From then on, I dissagreed 100% with anything he had to say. Turns out, from time to time, I agree with him entirely or at least in concept.  Sometimes not at all.  I pick my fights, some I stay out of, some I jump in head first. We've all let the anonymity of the internets get the best of us.  Text (even with smilies) can come across aloof, condecending, and dry.  We've all lost our cool at least once, and we've all had to get our pee-pees slapped over it. Remember that many of us have met in person, and that most of us live within 50 miles of each other.  Sometimes taking things back channel, perhaps even in person over a beer can settle most of the anger that crops up on the board. YMMV

Do you often take things back channel?