User Panel
Posted: 8/23/2005 4:30:36 AM EDT
Thinking perhaps you guys might help to refine my question, since some of you may have more experience in dealing with the alphabets. -Rob |
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Quite a few Post Offices are leased from the state. One should question whether federal jurisdiction applies in those instances. Also, the Bureau you've chosen to query will likely send back a response pointing you to some other agency. They might be experts on gun laws but not in this case.
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It has been gone over on arfcom a number of times. Dont write the ATF for a letter, you may not get the answer you want, and end up with a decision that fucks it up for everbody. ETA: I have all the legal guidelines I need in regards to this one already. As a WA resident, I fully recognize states rights, moreover my rights, as specified under the Tenth Ammendment.
As such I turn to the RCW for CCW regulations.
And as we see........
I dont see Post offices on that list. |
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It there a decision that does not now??? What about Phil, he may already know??? |
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BIG +1. Writing to the ATF for clarification rarely leads to a positive result. ATF is an enforcement branch anyway, so it really should be directed to a different office. To me, the USC is perfectly clear. "Other lawful purposes" is all I need. I've got a CPL, and I carry within the bounds of the law, and thus do so "lawfully." I don't worry about it. I've also carried long enough to know what proper concealed carry is. I've had a CPL for over 12 years, and I've never been "made" or "busted." No one is going to know, so there will be no issue. It is interesting to note that the signs posted in Post Offices conveniently leave out any mention of subsection (d)...... |
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Where are you going to the post office at? Mine has no such signs whatsoever. |
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Renton Highlands Station on 4th Ave. The sign is posted inside on a side wall. It shows a revolver with a red circle/slash over it. I'd snap a pic if it wasn't so conspicuous to do so. Maybe I'll borrow the wife's phone with the built in camera. I don't ever look for "no guns" signs on any business, but I just happened to notice this one..... |
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I'll have to look for that. I don't remember seeing it. I do remember seeing the US Code version posted at the downtown Renton location. |
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Rule #1 for dealing with the government.
Never ask a question you don't already know the answer to! |
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Your heart is in the right place, but I also advocate the Anti wrighting to the BATFE. First they will most likely point you in a different direction. Second when you write with questions like this, it reenforces their attitude that they somehow are allowed to make their own law.
If you want to ask a legal question, you need to ask a lawyer, or a judge. |
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Which does bring up the obvious next question, or am I off base.....
Evidently the "occupation of the entire field" doesnt really mean the entire field, as they do call big brother for 4473 approval. |
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+1 on not writing. Your asking an enforcement group to interpret the law. What your gonna' get is somebodies opinion. Remember this are the same folks who brought you this:
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=380592 Now ask yourself. Do you really want to ask a group that has over and over shown themselves to be above and outside the law about the law? Kinda like asking the IRS how much tax to pay on the bag of money you just found, isn't it? |
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Another +1 on not writing. Being too impatient for writing, (and unwilling to sacrifice my anonimity), to get my answers from them, I just picked up the phone and called them.
Just like every visit to my doctors office.... they have nothing but bad news. So I dont go to the doctor, or call the BATF anymore, and I'm getting along just fine. |
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Ah yes, one more thing, Code Of Federal Regulations 39 C.F.R. 232.1 Conduct on Postal Property:
HOWEVER, there is an exception:
Taken from thegunzone.com:
Boy the fun never stops! -Rob http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/usps39cfr232-1.html#w |
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That's the sign! Notice how it mentions "except for subsection (d) right in first paragraph, but nowhere on the sign is subsection (d)? This tells me that they KNOW it is legal to carry concealed at the Post Office in concealed carry states, but they are trying to skirt around the law. They are only showing the section of law they want you to see. As I said, it is crystal clear to me that it is fine and legal to do so. Officer Stadanko is probably going to hassle you anyway, with or without a piece of paper. He'll just say "Tell it to the judge." And, your postal employee friend is ill-informed about the regulations anyway. He has already demonstrated he knows nothing about the legalities of shipping firearms at the Post Office, so what makes you think he would be right about sign #158? If you MUST send a letter, it should probably go to the Attorney General.... Lastly, if your sidearm is EVER exposed by lifting a box onto a counter, your concealment is not effective enough. You should also be keenly aware of how certain actions can possibly "blow your cover." Every morning, I stand in front of the mirror and check out my cover for the day from various angles and positions (arms, kneeling, bending over, etc.) If lifting my arms way over my head exposes my sidearm, then I need to either change my outfit, or not lift my arms that high unless I can conceal the sidearm from view. Just my opinions.... |
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Thats exactly how I felt about the situation. Something wasn't adding up in my head there.
Probably 100% correct on that. I'm willing to risk it though. I will be the guinea pig on this as I was with the glock car holster (as you probably read from a few weeks back).
Well there is no harm in getting as much misinformation as possible out of these guys. It helps you to track the specific laws they are citing (or making up)
Of the United States? I wonder how long a response from them would take. What I might do is send the Attorney General a few questions in seperate envelopes so that they don't put two and two together and start getting defensive and overly nervous about their responses.
Excellent advice! Although I would like to be prepared. Nothing wrong with that I don't think. -Rob |
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Yes, I was thinking the US AG. I'm thinking back to the state AG and the opinion issued on the suppressor law. So I figure the US AG would operate in a similar fashion, issuing opinions on federal laws. As far as how long it would take, probably quite awhile. |
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Do you have any links or information from State AG on Suppressors? -Rob |
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VOILA: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=15&t=206996 |
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Dear Mr. SKSGuy it pays to know your subject before mucking around in the legal arena, a good lawyer never asks a question that he does not already know the answer to.
The problem with your approach is it only shows what an easy target you are to the badguys, learn what the RCW you are citing is based on, here is a hint, they are all bank-ruptcy based, courts are in business to collect money, just listen to the judge as he queries "any more business" there is a clue my friend ! There is no LAW only codes rules regulations and statutes that are applied by the agent of the state for the benefit of the state. The state is not a benevolent organization here to serve you, it is a voracious predatory leviathan concerned with it's own survival at all costs.
There is only one solution.
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