I was reading the CA laws primer at the top of this forum, and was having trouble understanding the C&R portion. Can somebody help me with it?

How old does a gun have to be to be a C&R?

Do C&R weapons still have to go through a dealer?

Hypothetical: Let's say I wanted to buy, oh, a Mosin Nagant from the local Big 5. Let's say it was manufactured in 1945. Is it a C&R? I'm just a  moron off the street. What's the procedure for buying it from Big 5? Is it different from any other gun in the world? What if this moron has a C&R license? What changes?

2nd hypothetical: Let's say I go up to the "Big Reno Gun Show" and some guy has another Mosin. I'm some schlub and I want it. How do I go about getting it? What if I have a C&R license?

Quoted: I was reading the CA laws primer at the top of this forum, and was having trouble understanding the C&R portion. Can somebody help me with it? How old does a gun have to be to be a C&R? Do C&R weapons still have to go through a dealer? Hypothetical: Let's say I wanted to buy, oh, a Mosin Nagant from the local Big 5. Let's say it was manufactured in 1945. Is it a C&R? I'm just a  moron off the street. What's the procedure for buying it from Big 5? Is it different from any other gun in the world? What if this moron has a C&R license? What changes? 2nd hypothetical: Let's say I go up to the "Big Reno Gun Show" and some guy has another Mosin. I'm some schlub and I want it. How do I go about getting it? What if I have a C&R license?

C&R doesn't do you too much for pistols. But with rifles, it's pretty cool. Basically it has to be something over 50 years old, and it can't fall into another catagory like being an assault weapon. If you buy a Mosin from Big 5, you've got to do the $25 DROS and wait 10 days to pick it up. If you buy one from a private party, you don't need to go through a dealer, pay the $25 DROS or wait the 10 days. I don't know about going out of state and buying one face to face without a C&R license. If you've got the license, you give him the cash he wants for the gun and walk away.

Quoted: C&R doesn't do you too much for pistols. But with rifles, it's pretty cool. Basically it has to be something over 50 years old, and it can't fall into another catagory like being an assault weapon. If you buy a Mosin from Big 5, you've got to do the $25 DROS and wait 10 days to pick it up. If you buy one from a private party, you don't need to go through a dealer, pay the $25 DROS or wait the 10 days. I don't know about going out of state and buying one face to face without a C&R license. If you've got the license, you give him the cash he wants for the gun and walk away.

So the C&R doesn't do much for you for buying from a dealer, but it makes DROS, fees, and waiting go away for anything private party (at least in this state)?

Quoted: So the C&R doesn't do much for you for buying from a dealer, but it makes DROS, fees, and waiting go away for anything private party (at least in this state)?

Correct.

You can use it to buy from other FFLs and private parties outside CA and have it shipped to your door (does not include hand guns)

Well, then, it does have a few benefits. How does one go about getting one if they wanted one?

Quoted: Well, then, it does have a few benefits. How does one go about getting one if they wanted one?

ATF Form 7CR, Application for License (Collector of Curios or Relics), with the appropriate fee in accordance with the instructions on the form. These forms may be obtained from the Firearms and Explosives Licensing Center in Atlanta, Georgia, (404) 417-2750, or your local ATF office.

Call them and they will send you everything you need.

Be sure to read the "How to get your C&R" tacked at the top of the Curio and Relics forum.(in the Armory)  Lots of good info there.

Here is a short clarification on the C&R regulations in California.  The references are to the California Penal Code.

There is a lot of confusion around concerning the California regulations on C&R Firearms.  The first thing to remember is that California, with few exceptions, requires all firearms transfers in the state to be processed through a dealer [Penal Code 12072(d)].  There is no exception for C&R FFL holders.  There is however, an exception to the dealer transfer requirement for C&R rifles and shotguns that are over 50 years old. [PC 12078(t)(2)]  This exception is available to anyone legally able to possess firearms.  California doesn’t care if you are licensed or not, that’s a Federal matter.  The 50 year rifle and shotgun exception is the reason that C&R FFL holders in California can receive these types of firearms directly from an out of state supplier.  

The California definition for a C&R firearm is exactly the same as that used by BATF in 27CFR.  California references both Title 18 and 27 CFR for the definition.  If the Feds say a firearm is C&R, so does the California DOJ.

There are a couple of exceptions to the firearms laws that are available to C&R FFL holders.  If the licensee also holds a Certificate of Eligibility (COE) from the California DOJ, they are exempt from the 10-day waiting period when buying C&R firearms from a dealer. [PC 12078(t)(1)]  The same C&R FFL holder with a COE is also exempt from the one handgun a month law for both C&R and modern handguns. [PC 12072(a)(9)(B)]  You also would not need a handgun safety certificate when purchasing C&R handguns. [PC 12807(a)(6)]


Where the C&R FFL comes in handy is when the holder is out of the state.  They may purchase any C&R firearm and bring it back to California.  The exceptions of course include those “evil” “assault weapons”.  Also,  magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds cannot be brought back.  Any C&R handguns purchased must be registered with the California DOJ within 5 days and are reported on Form BCIA 4100A along with a $19.00 payment for each handgun. [PC 12072(f)(3)]

You also get good discounts from Midway and Brownells if you send them your C&R

Quoted: You also get good discounts from Midway and Brownells if you send them your C&R

Big +1 there.

Quoted: Here is a short clarification on the C&R regulations in California.  The references are to the California Penal Code. There is a lot of confusion around concerning the California regulations on C&R Firearms.  The first thing to remember is that California, with few exceptions, requires all firearms transfers in the state to be processed through a dealer [Penal Code 12072(d)].  There is no exception for C&R FFL holders.  There is however, an exception to the dealer transfer requirement for C&R rifles and shotguns that are over 50 years old. [PC 12078(t)(2)]  This exception is available to anyone legally able to possess firearms.  California doesn’t care if you are licensed or not, that’s a Federal matter.  The 50 year rifle and shotgun exception is the reason that C&R FFL holders in California can receive these types of firearms directly from an out of state supplier.   The California definition for a C&R firearm is exactly the same as that used by BATF in 27CFR.  California references both Title 18 and 27 CFR for the definition.  If the Feds say a firearm is C&R, so does the California DOJ. There are a couple of exceptions to the firearms laws that are available to C&R FFL holders.  If the licensee also holds a Certificate of Eligibility (COE) from the California DOJ, they are exempt from the 10-day waiting period when buying C&R firearms from a dealer. [PC 12078(t)(1)]  The same C&R FFL holder with a COE is also exempt from the one handgun a month law for both C&R and modern handguns. [PC 12072(a)(9)(B)]  You also would not need a handgun safety certificate when purchasing C&R handguns. [PC 12807(a)(6)] Where the C&R FFL comes in handy is when the holder is out of the state.  They may purchase any C&R firearm and bring it back to California.  The exceptions of course include those “evil” “assault weapons”.  Also,  magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds cannot be brought back.  Any C&R handguns purchased must be registered with the California DOJ within 5 days and are reported on Form BCIA 4100A along with a $19.00 payment for each handgun. [PC 12072(f)(3)]

Ok, now I'm more confused again. Actually I read this before and was confused, thats why I brought the question up.

"There is however, an exception to the dealer transfer requirement for C&R rifles and shotguns that are over 50 years old. [PC 12078(t)(2)] "

This sentence screwed me up... if a long gun is over 50, its C&R, correct? And all C&R long guns are over 50? And there's no difference if it's 50 or 100 years old or any other number? No other age classification? It sounds like this sentence, in trying to clarify, confused me. Could I sum it up like this?

"To be C&R, a long gun has to be 50 (or +) years old. If the transfer is through a private party or from out of state, all C&R long guns can skip going to a dealer for the transfer, can skip DROS fees, and can skip the waiting period. If it's from a dealer in CA, you can skip the DROS, but not the 10-day wait unless you have a COE, then you can also skip the wait."

Another hypothetical: It sounds to me like if I call up some place out of state selling Springfield 03s and fax em a copy of my C&R, they can drop one onto the UPS truck and I get it 3 days later, and it's done.

Quoted: Ok, now I'm more confused again. Actually I read this before and was confused, thats why I brought the question up. "There is however, an exception to the dealer transfer requirement for C&R rifles and shotguns that are over 50 years old. [PC 12078(t)(2)] " This sentence screwed me up... if a long gun is over 50, its C&R, correct? And all C&R long guns are over 50? And there's no difference if it's 50 or 100 years old or any other number? No other age classification? It sounds like this sentence, in trying to clarify, confused me. Could I sum it up like this? "To be C&R, a long gun has to be 50 (or +) years old. If the transfer is through a private party or from out of state, all C&R long guns can skip going to a dealer for the transfer, can skip DROS fees, and can skip the waiting period. If it's from a dealer in CA, you can skip the DROS, but not the 10-day wait unless you have a COE, then you can also skip the wait." Another hypothetical: It sounds to me like if I call up some place out of state selling Springfield 03s and fax em a copy of my C&R, they can drop one onto the UPS truck and I get it 3 days later, and it's done.

Most firearms over 50 years old are automatically C&R.  There are also many listed C&R firearms that are less than 50 years old.  A C&R rifle or shotgun that is over 50 years old can be transferred between California residents without going through a dealer. No license of any type is required.

Any transfers from a California dealer must go through the DROS process.  If you have a C&R FFL and a COE, you can skip the 10 day wait on any C&R firearm, including handguns and those C&R firearms less than 50 years old.

If you have a C&R FFL, you can order C&R rifles or shotguns that are over 50 years old from an out of state supplier and have them shipped directly to you.

Don't get hung up on the 50 year old requirement.  They mean different things and are used for different purposes in California and Federal law.  In Federal law, it is a demarcation line for C&R firearms.  Under California law, it is a cutoff for certain firearms transfers without dealer involvement.

Quoted: Another hypothetical: It sounds to me like if I call up some place out of state selling Springfield 03s and fax em a copy of my C&R, they can drop one onto the UPS truck and I get it 3 days later, and it's done.

You are perfectly right. Just remember to make sure the Springfield 03's is C&R eligible. And you will see the sweet BBT (Big Brown Truck) bring you the babe.