Is the FAL dead? - AR15.COM

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is the FAL dead? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 8/17/2011 11:32:31 AM EDT

If you take a look at the AK and what Suarez is doing over at his forum you'll see that companies are still working to find improvement, new accessories are coming out, new ways to enhance the "platform" of the AK.

When you go to a rifle match or a carbine class lots of AR's, some of the new generation rifles are out, even AK's. I don't see any FAL's.

And when you go to the FALFiles.com most of the discussion revolves around collect-ability and whether or not an individuals rifle fits a standard. Granted, there were some 30 round mags that just came out. But surplus mags are relatively rare and expensive compared to the AK and AR.

So is the FAL dead?

Posted: 8/17/2011 11:40:43 AM EDT

[#1]

I wopuld not sell mine for anything. But, there are so many choices out there in AR 308 platforms with more toys and much better optics capabilities. Plus DSA is slow in production and delivery. CMMG hasd just come out with a nice Ar 308 adn all of them are less expensive.

Posted: 8/17/2011 1:10:47 PM EDT

[#2]

I think FALs or FAL type rifles are a challenge to acquire (1989 ban, various "assault weapon" bans in some states still surviving the 1994 federal ban), but certainly not "dead." They are expensive if found as Belgian examples, much more affordable though still a bit expensive as SARs, e.g. Many build their rifles from kits, then there is DSA. I do see that optics are an option, although I have no interest in putting one on my standard SAR-48. AKs are inexpensive, but they are not classic battle rifles. I am extremely pleased with owning a FAL as my sole personal "battle rifle." 7.62 surplus ammo is readily available, competitively priced. I have found plenty of NOS surplus Israeli mags, albeit for about $20-$30 each, but they are genuine, new, and incredibly well made. Parts are readily available, the rifle is very handy, the calibre outstanding, the rifle utterly reliable and "battle tested" for decades, still in use in various places and ways today. I am happy that DSA makes them available, although I do not own one of their "builds." I thought the FAL through really well before I selected it over an M1A or other .308 semi-auto rifles. I couldn't be more satisfied with my selection. Long live the FAL!

Posted: 8/17/2011 6:17:32 PM EDT

[#3]

Heck, I just picked mine up and I'm starting to wonder if its a better rifle than my ARs. Everything about it just feels right. It makes my recently acquired CETME seem like a turd.

Posted: 8/17/2011 6:33:22 PM EDT

[#4]

See if you can watch this video http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=lMDhwLMnayc. Hard to understand but you can see the FAL producing a bunch of dead people... Lol. It is around the second or third minute that the fun starts.

Now jokes aside, it is a great rifle, but heavy and has a bit of recoil if you dont know how to adjust the gas system. Besides that it is 308 whcih is way more expensive to shoot than .223 or 7.62x39. I love both of my FALs and will never sell them, but I dont think they will never be as popular these days as a tacticool ar all tricked out. It is an old timer rifle, but still very effective.

Posted: 8/17/2011 6:40:56 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

If you take a look at the AK and what Suarez is doing over at his forum you'll see that companies are still working to find improvement, new accessories are coming out, new ways to enhance the "platform" of the AK.

When you go to a rifle match or a carbine class lots of AR's, some of the new generation rifles are out, even AK's. I don't see any FAL's.

And when you go to the FALFiles.com most of the discussion revolves around collect-ability and whether or not an individuals rifle fits a standard. Granted, there were some 30 round mags that just came out. But surplus mags are relatively rare and expensive compared to the AK and AR.

So is the FAL dead?

Not dead but with the lack of (cheap) imported parts and only one manufacturer making them in the US it is losing market share to other designs.

Posted: 8/17/2011 6:56:19 PM EDT

[#6]

I don't consider something dead until they are hard to find and rarely seen.

FALs are still around, they are nowhere near as popular as other rifles, but I wouldn't go as far as saying they're dead.

In 5 to 10 years I could see it.

There's no getting around the fact that it is a big, heavy, old timey rifle.

Posted: 8/17/2011 6:58:47 PM EDT

[#7]

They were a fantastic value until they were hit with the double whammy of parts kits drying up and 7.62 ammo getting so expensive.

Posted: 8/17/2011 7:02:41 PM EDT

[#8]

I think it's because they are heavy and people are pansies

But seriously, I do believe they are the greatest 308 battle rifle ever created. AKs seem to be in the same category as 556 ARs for most purposes and therefore see similar innovation. Most people consider 308 a precision round and therefore only look at bolt actions or 308 AR platforms. Not only that but they are more expensive to shoot. I think all those things play into the apparent lack of interest in the platform, although I am still thoroughly interested....I love mine.

Posted: 8/17/2011 7:11:42 PM EDT

[#9]

FAL is far from dead.

One of the best 7.62mm nato weapons out there.

ammo cost put a damper on a lot of future FAL shooters. Add to it FAL mags, receivers, and parts kits increasing in cost from what they were. Most of my FAL's were built when receivers were under $150..and parts kits were about the same price. I also think a lot of people have been selling guns in the bad economy....

I have four FAL's. Love each one of them. One of the best true battle rifles made

Posted: 8/17/2011 8:27:04 PM EDT

[#10]

Far from dead in my adobe. I have a couple, and guess how many AR and AK rifles are here––0!

Posted: 8/17/2011 9:54:19 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Heck, I just picked mine up and I'm starting to wonder if its a better rifle than my ARs. Everything about it just feels right. It makes my recently acquired CETME seem like a turd.

this!
i started with ak's, then got ar's, then the FAL. i asked myself why i waited so long to get the FAL.
after building a cetme and a G3, i felt cheated, as for the cost i could have built 2 more FAL's

Posted: 8/18/2011 5:10:59 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
See if you can watch this video http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=lMDhwLMnayc. Hard to understand but you can see the FAL producing a bunch of dead people... Lol. It is around the second or third minute that the fun starts.

Now jokes aside, it is a great rifle, but heavy and has a bit of recoil if you dont know how to adjust the gas system. Besides that it is 308 whcih is way more expensive to shoot than .223 or 7.62x39. I love both of my FALs and will never sell them, but I dont think they will never be as popular these days as a tacticool ar all tricked out. It is an old timer rifle, but still very effective.

Fixed the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMDhwLMnayc

Posted: 8/18/2011 6:20:40 AM EDT

[#13]

I love my FAL.

I wish I could have figured this out years ago when the kits were cheaper that way I could have bought a few of them up....

Posted: 8/18/2011 8:34:17 AM EDT

[#14]

DEAD? Fat chance! The 7.62NATO cartridge does a great job of turning cover into concealment. It's still the best one-stop-shot cartridge out to 500m, and the FAL is hard to beat for ergonomics, handling, and reliability in a .308 rifle. The AK has awful ergonomics and sights and many of the changes are to improve those areas.

I predict that the FAL will still be soldiering on many years from now. Any perceived shortage of surplus mags is more due to import restrictions than a real shortage. The price is due to supply and demand. The surplus mags already in the country have mostly dried up, and making new manufactured mags for a relatively limited market is more expensive. A bit of shopping finds FAL mags for $10-15 each.

http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/magazines-for-rifles/fal-l1a1magazines/cPath/332_190_194
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=MRWBFAL
http://www.entreprise.com/fn_fal.htm

Look in the marketplace at FALFiles.com, and you can often see them at decent prices.
DSA had Grade II on their table at Knob Creek last Spring for $5. It might be worth a call to see if they have any more.

Posted: 8/18/2011 9:02:58 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
DEAD? Fat chance! The 7.62NATO cartridge does a great job of turning cover into concealment. It's still the best one-stop-shot cartridge out to 500m, and the FAL is hard to beat for ergonomics, handling, and reliability in a .308 rifle. The AK has awful ergonomics and sights and many of the changes are to improve those areas.

I predict that the FAL will still be soldiering on many years from now. Any perceived shortage of surplus mags is more due to import restrictions than a real shortage. The price is due to supply and demand. The surplus mags already in the country have mostly dried up, and making new manufactured mags for a relatively limited market is more expensive. A bit of shopping finds FAL mags for $10-15 each.

http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/magazines-for-rifles/fal-l1a1magazines/cPath/332_190_194
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=MRWBFAL
http://www.entreprise.com/fn_fal.htm
Look in the marketplace at FALFiles.com, and you can often see them at decent prices.
DSA had Grade II on their table at Knob Creek last Spring for $5. It might be worth a call to see if they have any more.

I'd avoid entreprise at all costs. Don't ask me how I know.

Posted: 8/18/2011 9:31:51 AM EDT

[#16]

depends on how exactly you mean that.

when you say "is the FAL dead?", do you mean "is the FAL no longer a viable fightin' gun?", my answer would be "not a chance". it is a good, reasonably accurate, rediculously reliable platform that can and does continue to pile up bodies in the worst shit-holes on the planet.

...or, do you mean "is the FAL going fade away from a lack of parts and support?" my answer is still "not a chance". there are FALs everywhere. *everywhere*. and there are still plenty of people and companies importing, sourcing, and even making parts for them. spares for your FAL will be around a lot longer than you will, and that's even IF your gun needs them.

...or, do you mean "is the FAL going to fade to the background as newer and better arms and tactics are developed?" my answer would be "yep". right or wrong, like it or not, modern fighting guns are becoming smaller and lighter every year, and we are constantly evolving new tactics to fight with smaller and lighter weapons. some will be applicable to heavy .30 caliber guns like FAL's, M1A's, and HK 91's, but in the end the world is moving away from the lumbering old "battle rifle". i wouldn't expect to find some fancy new MOE handguards or a flashy new video for your FAL any time soon.

Posted: 8/18/2011 11:42:00 AM EDT

[#17]

I got some FAL mags from Keepshooting.com - they were surplus but all worked great. I would avoid the Korean made ones. I ordered 6 and none worked in any of my two FAL's.

Posted: 8/18/2011 12:01:49 PM EDT

[#18]

A lot of countries still issue the FAL to it's troops as it main rifle. Not to go on a debate 5.56mm x 7.62mm, but sometimes you just need a more powerful round than the 5.56mm, and sometimes the 7.62x51mm is just too much.

Some German and Norwegian troops are still carrying their G3's in combat due to greater power of the 7.62mm round over the 5.56mm. Even the SEAL's kept their M14's.

That old idea of one cartidge does it all, simply does not work.

Posted: 8/18/2011 5:02:18 PM EDT

[#19]

NOPE, I just got my tools to build a second one...

Posted: 8/18/2011 5:06:10 PM EDT

[#20]

Well my 4 aren't dead, and I'm looking to pick up at least 1 or 2 more.......

One of the best battle rifles ever built. Over 92 nations adopted them.

Posted: 8/18/2011 11:29:53 PM EDT

[#21]

with coonan making receivers and DSA still making guns, and Century as well, and probably tens of thousands of Fal's in private ownership i hope it actually gains more ground in the market as more people realize how awesome a weapon it is, hopefully leading to more manufacturers, parts, and accessories to make it a more competitive weapon with other platforms, frankly a 16-18 inch para with a red dot sight and a 30 round mag seems like a pretty mean machine, people who know how to handle the recoil and know the weapon seem to have no problem putting rounds on target quickly. It would be interesting if law enforcement jumped onto these weapons for more punch than the AR platform offers, per se' like when you need to shoot through car doors and windshields.

Posted: 8/19/2011 5:11:55 AM EDT

[#22]

Long live the FAL!

Posted: 8/19/2011 7:08:35 AM EDT

[#23]

I think comparing the current AK market to the current FAL market is a bit off. Really the "golden" age for the FAL was in the early 2000's when ammo was cheap and plentiful at that point several companies were bolting them together and if you look there are all the accesories for a FAL you could ever want, scope mounts, P-rails, fancy grips and so forth, so I don't really understand your point, all the tacticool stuff has already come out for the FAL in the past and the good designs have stuck around, does the wheel need to be reinvented again and again? The guys on the FALfiles are more concerened with collectible variants of the FAL, but go over to the DSA site or others and you can find all the tacticool rail stuff you could ever want if thats your thing. About the only thing these days keeping the rifle from being popular is the higher cost these days since the cheap kits dried up and the vast increase in the price of ammo.

Posted: 8/19/2011 8:05:51 AM EDT

[#24]

More like undead.

FALs will never go away...combinations of form and function never do.

Posted: 8/19/2011 8:11:51 AM EDT

[#25]

Love my FAL , but the cost of ammo is the one area that has prevented me from obtaining more variants.

It's a great rifle and will live a very long life both here and overseas.

Posted: 8/19/2011 9:47:32 AM EDT

[#26]

As a rifle used by many armies it is far, far from dead.

As a weapon in the U.S. civilian shooter world, it isn't dead but it is a shadow of what it used to be in the marketplace 15 years ago when they were the hot thing to have. It is pretty much sole-source availability from DS Arms at this point save for a few custom builders and Century monkey guns, and because of this the aftermarket support has shifted elsewhere.

[ETA] Another good point that was made is that 7.62 Nato ammo rocketed up in price and was very hard to find for several years, and I would say that palyed a great part in 'starving' the FAL market to the place it has today.

Posted: 8/19/2011 5:06:34 PM EDT

[#27]

Just got mine back from ARS today and its far from dead.

Posted: 8/19/2011 7:52:46 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
I love my FAL.

I wish I could have figured this out years ago when the kits mags were cheaper that way I could have bought a few of them up....

I am still upset at myself for not stocking up when they were being given away.

I don't own a G3/HK91 variant, but I've stocked up on G3 mags just because they're so cheap right now.

I learned my lesson.

Posted: 8/19/2011 8:36:03 PM EDT

[#29]

The FAL is NOT dead.

But everything within about 600 meters of it is ALL f'd up.

Posted: 8/19/2011 11:22:22 PM EDT

[#30]

I don't think so.

In fact, I want a Para FAL more than probably any other gun I could think of. Except maybe a no-bullshit RR M16, but that's so far outside my price range it's just sad.

Although the Para is way outside my range, too.

One of these days, though, I'll have the $1900 for a spiffy new DSA Para.

Posted: 8/20/2011 5:31:22 AM EDT

[#31]

DSA is making a STg58 para for one distributors that uses a STg steel receiver rather than a aluminum one. It retails for 1,500.00 you can pick them up new for a few bucks less. Mine was like 1,495.00.

Posted: 8/20/2011 5:46:02 AM EDT

[#32]

Look at video from the fighting in Libya, FAL's are all over the place

Posted: 8/20/2011 5:53:40 AM EDT

[#33]

No it is alive and well. It is just able to slip underneath the mainstream radar, which is actually not a bad idea.

Last thing I want is for the poodle-shooters and mouse gunners to find out how good the FAL is and really suck up the stuff and really raise prices more so.

Posted: 8/20/2011 6:35:57 AM EDT

[#34]

The FAL is alive and well at my house....

Posted: 8/20/2011 6:39:02 AM EDT

[#35]

Alive and well south of the Rio Grande for sure.

Posted: 8/20/2011 7:17:46 AM EDT

[#36]

No more dead than any other military grade semi-auto 7.62 NATO rifle.

It comes down to whether or not you can afford to feed it.

Posted: 8/20/2011 9:49:55 AM EDT

[#37]

I'm gonna have to reload to feed mine.

Posted: 8/20/2011 11:39:54 AM EDT

[#38]

Yes, it is dead. I am the one that killed it. I do not regret having killed it nor do I care that others will suffer as a result.

Posted: 8/21/2011 8:06:26 AM EDT

[#39]

Aren't NATO troops in Afganistan being issued newly manufactured 308 rifles? I know I have seen SpecOps guys with M14s but I don't believe that they are the only ones. If this is the case then NO the FN FAL is not dead. Imbel made FN FALs and I have not heard of them stopping so that would mean that there is still a market for them somewhere. Gabe Suarez was doing a study of the best 308 combat rifle. He was leaning toward the FN FAL but I don't know what his final conclushion was.

Posted: 8/21/2011 10:01:38 AM EDT

[#40]

Nope, the FAL is perfect, so there is little need to fuck with it to "improve" it.

The only "improvement" I have made to my FAL has been an ergo-grip, because I really like them and put them on everything. Every other part has been a factory part.

Posted: 8/24/2011 12:34:53 AM EDT

[#41]

The F.A.L. isn't dead, but teh Garand is better.

Maranatha 2 U.

Posted: 8/25/2011 4:07:43 AM EDT

[#42]

I love mine ''A 21'' barrel that shoots true MOA groups'' and I am just about to purchase a rail interface handguard to match my extended scope mount. I love the look of the SPR FAL.
My next rifle will be a HK 93 that I will eventually shorten into a 94k. After that I will be working on another FAL= This time I want an 11'' little guy.
So the FAL is not dead to me.

Posted: 8/25/2011 1:18:46 PM EDT

[#43]

Yes, it's dead. At this point it is a dead end platform- not a bad one, but simply a dead end. It began to die the moment that cheap magazines, parts kits, chrome lined foreign replacement barrels and receivers began to dry up. It's essentially been down hill since about 2006 or so. When you're paying as much for a FAL as you are an M1a, most shooters, sorry hardcore FAL guys, are going to pick the M1a.

Posted: 8/25/2011 1:44:45 PM EDT

[#44]

I see plenty of FAL's for 700 up 1000 bucks - Never seen a M1A for less then 1,200..... Forget about only US domestic market - think about the rest of the world and many nations which still adopt the FAL as main rifle. It is far from dead.. and when those nations decide to replace it for something else more "plastic", there will be another wave of surplus mag and parts.

Posted: 8/25/2011 4:13:59 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Yes, it's dead. At this point it is a dead end platform- not a bad one, but simply a dead end. It began to die the moment that cheap magazines, parts kits, chrome lined foreign replacement barrels and receivers began to dry up. It's essentially been down hill since about 2006 or so. When you're paying as much for a FAL as you are an M1a, most shooters, sorry hardcore FAL guys, are going to pick the M1a.

Somebody tell DSA they are making zombies....

Posted: 8/25/2011 5:15:08 PM EDT

[#46]

I was able to get three really nice MBEL kits in 2008, was able to build them with compliance parts and receivers (two with DSA Receivers and one with a Coonan Type I receiver) for more or less $800 USD. I will admit that those days, along with the days of buying cheap mags, are over!!

Posted: 8/25/2011 5:27:21 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
I see plenty of FAL's for 700 up 1000 bucks - Never seen a M1A for less then 1,200..... Forget about only US domestic market - think about the rest of the world and many nations which still adopt the FAL as main rifle. It is far from dead.. and when those nations decide to replace it for something else more "plastic", there will be another wave of surplus mag and parts.

Guarantee you're not seeing DSA's for $700. Lets compare factory built "new" rifles and not Beaver Werks specials and Uncle Hickleys Garage Kit guns to factory rifles.

As far as "new" imports you assume several things which are unlikely- 1. That anyone still fielding FALS will upgrade- if they haven't done so already why would they do it before the guns they have are complete shit? Do you really have a hard on for Indian Fals? No thanks.There is less money for defense in most any nation now than at any time in the last 40 years, they will continue to soldier on with what they have. 2. You assume that the guns/parts etc...will be importable. We thought this for a long time...then the barrels went away, what's next? 3. Why would they come HERE? The value of our currency is dropping like a stone. I have little interest in paying $500 for a trashed kit with no barrel 4. UN arms trade restrictions and buy outs. This is what happened to a huge number of Austrian STG's and South African Fals along with the SA ammo etc.....

It don't look good.

Posted: 8/25/2011 5:32:08 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Yes, it's dead. At this point it is a dead end platform- not a bad one, but simply a dead end. It began to die the moment that cheap magazines, parts kits, chrome lined foreign replacement barrels and receivers began to dry up. It's essentially been down hill since about 2006 or so. When you're paying as much for a FAL as you are an M1a, most shooters, sorry hardcore FAL guys, are going to pick the M1a.

Somebody tell DSA they are making zombies....

The supply of aftermarket parts has all but dried up. There is ONE maker of these rifles essentially at this point-and a low volume one at that. Contrast this with the M1A- there are now 4-5 companies making rifles, several more making barrels, many making NEW and INNOVATIVE stocks and scope mounts etc....Besides none of he "legacy 3" battle rifles- M1a, Fal, G3 are exactly state of the art at this point- still effective, yes, but there are new designs like the FNH 17, the Kel Tec RFB etc....that are coming on line.

The FN is a good rifle but it has had it's day, especially in this country.

Posted: 8/25/2011 5:37:12 PM EDT

[#49]

I like reliable and proven. That's why I generally focus on the AR, the FAL, and the AK 47 guns. I have several of each, and they also happen to cover the calibers I feel should be addressed. I had the chance to buy an M1A, but...I just don't feel the need. I prefer the history and reputation of reliability that the FAL enjoys. Yes, I know I'll sacrifice the quality of the iron sights, and (arguably) some accuracy. That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

My most recent FAL purchase shipped today.

Posted: 8/25/2011 6:07:04 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
I think comparing the current AK market to the current FAL market is a bit off. Really the "golden" age for the FAL was in the early 2000's when ammo was cheap and plentiful at that point several companies were bolting them together and if you look there are all the accesories for a FAL you could ever want, scope mounts, P-rails, fancy grips and so forth, so I don't really understand your point, all the tacticool stuff has already come out for the FAL in the past and the good designs have stuck around, does the wheel need to be reinvented again and again? The guys on the FALfiles are more concerened with collectible variants of the FAL, but go over to the DSA site or others and you can find all the tacticool rail stuff you could ever want if thats your thing. About the only thing these days keeping the rifle from being popular is the higher cost these days since the cheap kits dried up and the vast increase in the price of ammo.

All this and the mags are not $5 like they were in the late '90s and early 00's.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is the FAL dead? (Page 1 of 2)

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