TL;DR, Fiocchi ammo blew up my M1A. Fiocchi ammo and James River Armory have HORRIBLE CS. Got rifle back, no idea what they did to fix it. Fiocchi says it's probably not their fault.

So, around the 2nd or 3rd of July I was out at the Aurora Sportsman's club shooting my new James River Armory M1A. Nice gun, decent shooter. I was shooting Fiocchi 150gr. .308 ammo. I shoot Fiocchi 9mm all the time and it is great stuff. Never any malfunctions and reasonably accurate. So I thought I would try their .308. BIG MISTAKE. I was getting terrible groups with it, and the recoil was a lot more than I was expecting, certainly more than I was getting with the other .308 I was shooting. Yes, all the same weight ammo. This is new factory ammo, not reloads. Well, a case head failed and dramatically disassembled my M1A. Fortunately, most of the energy with out the magazine, and I was not hurt. When I got home, I called Fiocchi and left them a VM as to what had transpired. The Fiocchi CS Rep. called me back within 15min. Now I'm thinking to myself, 'Wow, this is great customer service! I won't have any problems on this end.' Well I was wrong. After explaining to the rep., Troy, what had happened, he asked me to send him pics of the rifle and ammo and send them my remaining ammo as well as the casing that had failed.

I sent it all into him and waited. In the meantime, I called James River Armory (JRA) and explained to them what had happened. This was the ONLY TIME I was able to get through to them and talk to a live person. All subsequent calls and emails have been ignored by them. The JRA Tech support rep. told me that he never uses Fiocchi ammo in rifles. He stated that in his experience, Fiocchi is over pressured and they use thin brass. So I received a shipping label and sent the rifle in. After a couple of weeks (Fiocchi was closed the week of the 4th) I sent Fiocchi an email asking what they had determined. I also sent JRA the same email. Troy, from Fiocchi, responded and asked me what JRA had said. This truned into a, "I'm not going to tell you what I think, until you tell me what the other guy thinks" game with Fiocchi. JRA just flat out refused to answer the phone or any emails. After several emails like this with Fiocchi, Troy finally said they were not convinced that the case head failed on it's own. Troy said it may have fired out of battery. What? So I got the rifle back from JRA fixed, but with no list of what was replaced or fixed, or any testing they did. Troy, from Fiocchi, flat out refused to admit that the case head failure was the problem and stated that all the ammo I sent in was within specs. They are refunding me the cost of the ammo, maybe. I still don't have a check. and JRA still refuses to answer phone calls or return emails, or tell me what they did to fix my rifle, although it seems to be working fine now. If you're interested, I will update this post if I get anymore info from anyone.  Can I post pics from my desktop, or do they have to come from a picture website?" />

That sucks OP!  It sounds like once they recieved the ammo and failed case they had all the evidence so they could tell you to pound sand.

Upgraded membership allows you to post pics directly to the site.

You shouldn't have sent all the ammo.Should have kept some for evidence.

Ya know, I was thinking the same thing at the time, but Fiocchi was so fast to respond, and I wasn't injured in any way, so I figured they wouldn't have a problem making this right.  I WAS MISTAKEN in that belief!

It serves as a good heads up for the rest of us, that will never happen to me with that ammo thanks to this thread.

Glad you weren't hurt but that had to scare the crap out of you and seeing a new rifle blown apart would be sickening.  Another example of why eye pro is a must.

I don't understand vendors that don't respond. I know they are busy but they could at least acknowledge a customer with a question about such a serious repair. I sent a RIA 1911 22tcm in for extraction problems and got it back with a form saying barrel was replaced, some spent cases and a used target.

I have shot Fiocchi and was impressed with it's performance per dollar, that said I normally stick with Hornady, CCI and Federal.

Any chance the chamber for the M1A was on the loose side for a 7.62x51 case and the fiochi loaded hot for a commercial .308 round causing this issue?

Your blown case and the ammo was collected so that they could control who saw that stuff.

Shitty CS.

I'm surprised by JRA though. They seem shitty too.

The 0.004” should not have made a difference in the first firing.  Perhaps on the 3 to 5th reload.

Measure your virgin factory ammo.  Their headspace is normally all extra short from what you might think.

It looks like brass failure.  If it was out of battery you would have had the shoulder blown out and moved toward the neck.

I call Case head failure without the chance to hands on measure the brass.

It could have been a bad bolt.
You were obviously treated very poorly.
It's generally impossible for a properly-made M14 type rifle to fire out-of-battery. Inspection of the firing pin block on the receiver bridge would've verified this.

I'll throw my .02 cents worth in here.
I've never used Fiocchi ammo and now I don't ever plan to. Yep Hindsight is 20/20 but OP should have kept about 5 or more rounds of ammo for independent analysis. I have an M1A or more correctly an M14S built on a JRA barreled receiver and its a great rifle. Bula Defense, (Formerly Bula Forge) manufactures the receivers, some barrels and other parts used in the newer JRA builds. From what I have gleaned from the TFL forum, Bula Sells to the defense sector too and their products have a reputation for quality. My Rifle is built with all USGI parts sourced from the CMP years ago and another mil-surp vendor, and built by a well known M14 builder. So, no issues with mine.  I can attest that having tried to contact JRA with some product questions, that there customer service is hit or miss. They are a relatively small operation, now located in the Boonies of SE North Carolina. OP, Had you known about Bula, you could have asked them to consult with JRA on the bolt, which may or may not have been flawed, (unlikely, but possible.)

As far as what I can see in your pictures. I can pretty well assume that they replaced not only the obvious damage (Stock set, bolt, magazine) but also possibly Op-rod, various or all internal action parts, and reinspected/re-gauged headspace and tolerances. At least they did the right thing and rebuilt the rifle. Their receivers are machined from forgings just like the original M14 receiver and are vary strong, so the receiver is probably fine. Not sure I could say the same about cast and machined receivers by Springfield. Did they do so at no cost to you? I would say, shoot it with confidence with US made 7.62X51 NATO spec ammo. Too much stuff marked .308Win is loaded hot for hunting long range with a bolt action rifle. (Same situation applies to M1 Garand rifles; in them always used 30-06 rounds labeled as loaded for M1 Garand, (medium Pressure) and not the usual 30-06 hunting rounds that are loaded to pressures that over stress the Garand's action.)

I may have missed it, but did James River fix your rifle for free? 

You said you were not injured.  What exactly do you need from them? 

If you shoot long enough and a lot of guns, eventually one is going to blow on you.  I have had it happen.  Gun fixed.  Money/repair cost refunded by ammo company.  I moved on.  Didn't even make a thread about it.

What do they sell to the defense sector?
I see that back when they were Bula Forge & Machine, Inc. they received an indefinite delivery contract for a pintle hook latch (for trailers) but I don't know that they delivered any.

This is old hat for Fiocchi. Ive posted in these kaboom threads before and had my posts deleted.

That looks remarkably like the Mini 14 I blew up when I was a teenager with bad ammo from a gun show.

I’ve been shooting for forty years. Reloads, commercial ammo, surplus ammo and weapons, Home built guns, and factory guns.
I have never had a weapon blow up on me.

Your post is full of fail.

OP is posting something of interest to the rest of us. Are you just running interference for JRA or Fiochi?

My M1A is a Springfield and I only shoot Sierra Match and milsurp M80 ball. 

I repair printers in the basement. 

I asked what OP actually wanted because it is important.  Sure, this is interesting, but the question needs to be asked.  Does he want a new car?  A new house? An apology?  Lifetime retirement? 

Did James River fix the fucking thing for free or not?  I can type this in upper case if the question is being missed.

I have never yet tried Fiocchi ammo, and now, I probably never will.

Pretty certain there were a bunch of JRA rifles with problems reported over at the M14 Forum. I understand Bula is the place to send the rifle for repair to.

https://m14forum.com/m14/434425-james-river-armory-extraction.html
https://m14forum.com/m14/358721-james-river-armory-m14-extraction-issues.html

Yes, it was no cost to me, and they did get it back in a timely fashion.  The receipt that came back with the rifle simply said, 'Warranty Repair' No list of parts that were replaced, or any indication of what may have gone wrong.

Whoa there pardner, let the pre-workout get out of your system before posting.  I would not have posted anything about this either if I had received any sort of decent customer assistance.  I am not trying to get anything except my rifle fixed and a refund on the ammo from Fiocchi.  The CS is the whole reason I posted.  The CYA mode Fiocchi went into as soon as they received the ammo was irritating, but, lesson learned.  I will not buy Fiocchi .308 ever again.  JRA is suspiciously silent on what they found, and straight up refuse to answer questions, or take phone calls, or answer emails from me.

If anything, this is an FYI post about both companies.  And maybe get educated opinions on weather or not this was an ammo failure or the rifle failed.

Based on what I see from the lack of rearranged brass in the shoulder and neck area is that that the round
Was chambered.   Otherwise it would have blown the Shoulder forward. The cracked neck is perplexing.   Makes me think it was faulty brass and not so much an over pressure.   That’s a bit of a leap though.

Op. Pm’ing you with a suggestion.

Typical case head failure for the M14 M1a.

Your lucky as sometimes the bolt can crack recvr heel since it no longer has the resistance of extraction to slow it down.

M14 gas system is hard on brass, pressure hasn't completely dropped as it is extracting so with a tight chamber it is pulling on the brass pretty good. Hot ammo makes it worse.

Best to stick with Nato surplus,  or reload using LC 7.62 brass & service rifle data.

Why is your rear sight cranked almost full left?

Tagorito.

I have a JRA M-14.  I certainly won't be shooting Fiocchi through it anytime soon.

That is where it was zero'd at for windage.  It was one of the 1st times shooting it, and I didn't bring any tools to move the front sight.

Yes, from now on. Definitely.

Dang.  Mine was damn near dead nuts on out of the box.  Dead center rear site.  about 6 clicks of elevation.

I had kind of the samething happen when shooting a polytech m14.

I was shooting someone else’s hand loads and boom! Blew out the mag just like yours and split the stock.

I couldn’t get the bolt open, the owner had to take it to a shop. Gun is still in pieces and I don’t shoot with him anymore.

I had to jam the charging handle down against the cement bench to open it.  That is the white dust in the pic of the charging handle.

I have a JRA M14 and I had issues with shells not extracting correcly since I had to pull the bolt back to eject the spent shell. I called Classic Firearms and they took all of the information and then Jeff Miller who works for Bula Defense sent me an email about what the problem was. I was sent a UPS label and Bula Defense repaired my M14 and send to back to me. I have only fired 80 rounds so far. Bula Defense fired 10 rounds at 200 yards and sent me the target they used. I only shoot 7.62x51mm LC M80 or Priv Partisan M80 ball ammo so far with it. Since the hand guard is walnut I had to take my time since the barrel gets quite hot. My first magazine was a 20 round magazine dump.

I probably should have done that.  JRA fixed the rifle pretty quickly, but the silence from them is frustrating.   I did not get a target, or anything else, back from them.

I least you got your M14 repaired. I am new to the M14 I always wanted a M14/M1A for a few years now so I bought the JRA Classic Military M14 when I had sufficient funds. Had to by some cleaning supplies and stuff for my M14 as well. I know my M14 is made with new parts instead of M14 USGI parts but that is fine by me. I visit the  the M14Forum.com website as well. I saw how to clean my M14 how to disassemble my M14 as well.

https://m14forum.com/

Please delete this post since it was a duplicate of the original.

I've one of the  JR rifles, 6xx, purchased thru a dealer that's a personal friend.   He was considering not renewing his license  due events that occurred after my order was placed.   He had to call JRA (this is just after they relocated to Bergaw) as they were dragging their heels on fulling my order........finally got the rifle ok, and in truth it's been a fairly good shooter, but damned sure not without its faults.........mostly involving finish...........to the point that I'll likely have Shuff redo several key components......bolt looks as tho its been powder coated as does the operating rod and several smaller parts, inclusive of the trigger guard itself.   That finish was so poor that on receipt of the rifle I actually rubbed off what appeared to be a sticky black paint from on both the operating handle and metal forward of the stock..........

No matter, I cleaned it up, and was reluctant to even attempt a call to the mfgr due the difficulty in getting them to fill the order to begin with..................wasn't quite what I'd ordered and damned sure not finished as it should have been.........In fact, when my dealer called them he touched base with me as they wished to settle the purchase with one of the shorter variants........apparently they had to hustle a bit to put mine together from what my dealer said.

Even tho I'll keep this piece I wish I'd dealt with another mfgr.

Far as the OP's post, I'll venture that he is owed AT THE LEAST substantial consideration for his narrow escape from serious injury.............Should someone experience an event such as this, it truly warrants a legal consultation!

Far as the ammo goes, well, other than picking up some of the crap that Wally World sells..............mostly for brass................I reload, and needed brass.......stuff works ok, but been told that it's also that Italian stuff.............bullet pullin' time warranting a close brass exam I guess!

What you are seeing is both companies trying to avoid liability and legal actions.

A cracked neck on brass could allow the projectile to be seated deeper during cycling.

Paladin

Good point.  I had not considered the crack might be from before the catastrophe.   Lord knows I have seen defective necks in commercial ammo, looking at you Remington and Winchester.

A few weeks back I posted about some defective .223 Winchester brand ammo.   Real craptastic brass condition; bent necks, mouths gnarled and bullets seated roughly in the being gouged by the crunched mouth.   Guys were having their rifles lock up from the driveway Lund’s being bad enough not to chamber and then compounded with the forward assist.  I did get to teach the range cadre how to mortar an AR when that happens. So good training.

Do inspect your factory ammo, the eyes you save may be your own!

If Fiocchi .308 is anything like Fiocchi 7.62 x 39, it is more likely to be under pressured than over pressured.
I had heard that the Fiocchi rounds were slow before testing them (along with about a dozen other brands of x39 ammo).
Most 123 grain loads I tested went from 2350 to 2550 fps, but the Fiocchi velocities were 1940 to 2000 fps.
While very accurate in my Mini-30's and x39 AR, I don't want to be giving up 400+ fps.
OP, glad you weren't hurt and got your rifle replaced.

So the final chapter in this fiasco goes like this.  JRA fixed the rifle, and it seems to be working ok. Fiocchi refunded me for one case of ammo.  I bought 2, but I could only find the receipt for one.  I told Fiocchi that, they didn't care.  I have a rifle that works, and a few dollars in my pocket that I can spend on any brand of ammo besides Fiocchi.  I was not injured at all, which, of course is the most important part in all this.  Thanks for the opinions and input guys, I really appreciate it!

Glad the rifle was saved and you weren't hurt!

Thanks for posting the AAR.

Sadly, I've been a great fan of their ammo.

After seeing how Fiocchi treated you, I think
that my funds will be spent elsewhere for ammo.

Given how the OP was treated, I will never buy Fiocchi ammo again no matter the price.

So that is not a case head seperation failure, that's case head detonation failure. The thickest part of the case blew out. I have had a few case head seperations in an M14 using reloaded Hornady brass and they clearly separated about 1/4 of an inch (ish) above the case head, on the side wall. My case head seperation caused no damage and was related to soft brass. If I had to guess, and it is a guess, I would lean toward  a brass issue because the thickest part of the case appears to have blown out. If it was long head space, or out of battery wouldn't  the thinnest part of the case fail because it was unsupported?

OP, You wouldn't happen to have a lot number for that ammo, would you?

Since jra's product website sucks with detail, is the jra rifle 308 marked, or 7.62?

Feel very sorry for the OP.

Man, they fuglied that shit all up.