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Posted: 6/9/2015 2:53:04 AM EDT
I've got a Scorpion EVO that's now on its second magazine with cracked feed lips. The first magazine was one of the included 20's that I kept loaded with 20 rounds and inserted in the weapon. There was never a point of "overly positive insertion", nor abuse as these things are made of 50% unobtanium. Despite one of the feed lips nearly cracked off, the magazine continues to function 100%. I chalked this up to general "wtmf?!?", segregated the mag for range only use.
I got face-raped on three factory 30's (60.00 a piece) a few months ago. Yeah, yeah... Supply and demand. I didn't see a point in owning this gun without 30 round mags and paid the going rate at the time, which I guess isn't rape, since I was willing 
Anyways, remembering that the only real "use" my factory 20 received was being stored loaded in the weapon and the fact that some European guns are not intended to be loaded at full capacity +1(the Walther P99's original 16 round magazine came to mind), I down loaded one of these 30's to 29 rounds. Just took the mag out and I can see cracks forming already. The common denominators are Winchester RA9T, approximately 30 days of consecutive storage loaded in the weapon and the left feed lip. TL;DR- are EVO magazines not intended to be stored loaded in the weapon? As much as I love this gun, not being able to keep it loaded for immediate use is very much a deal breaker... |
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Posted: 6/9/2015 3:13:41 AM EDT
[#1]
I would definitely contact CZ. Maybe they'll just happen to find a replacement or you'll probably be bumped up on any list if they don't have any. Either way I suspect they will take care of it.
ETA: post some pics of it. |
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Posted: 6/9/2015 6:34:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Wow that's shitty and really kills my confidence in this weapon
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Posted: 6/9/2015 7:00:58 PM EDT
[#3]
I feel like you may have really bad luck.
Granted I've only kept one of my 30 rounders loaded, I have had no issues keeping this one in the gun for the last 4-5 weeks. 
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Posted: 6/9/2015 7:36:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow that's shitty and really kills my confidence in this weapon Why? The guy said it runs with cracked feed lips. That's impressive 
They are some pretty beefy/ boxed off feedlips. More like "feed opening" lol No chance of those things bending open...well, unless you crack it all the way off..... |
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Posted: 6/9/2015 7:46:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Sorry, it might be obvious but I don't see a crack.
Maybe describe where or draw and arrow. |
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Posted: 6/9/2015 7:52:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry, it might be obvious but I don't see a crack. Maybe describe where or draw and arrow. That's my mag and it doesn't have a crack. I'm just saying that I've left mine loaded full for about as long in the gun and haven't had that issue. |
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Posted: 6/9/2015 7:57:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's my mag and it doesn't have a crack. I'm just saying that I've left mine loaded full for about as long in the gun and haven't had that issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sorry, it might be obvious but I don't see a crack. Maybe describe where or draw and arrow. That's my mag and it doesn't have a crack. I'm just saying that I've left mine loaded full for about as long in the gun and haven't had that issue. . Oops.
Hopefully OP posts a pic. I have left all of mine loaded too without any issues. |
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Posted: 6/9/2015 10:54:30 PM EDT
[#8]
I have pics. Would someone be willing to help me post them? I'm pretty analog, but I could email them to somebody if they would be willing to help.
Thanks! |
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Posted: 6/10/2015 10:52:56 PM EDT
[#9]
OP's pics
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Posted: 6/11/2015 11:35:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP's pics https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/t31.0-8/11416367_623559071521_5841063678633189674_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9 https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/t31.0-8/11402241_623559066531_6829928226470481831_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9 https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/t31.0-8/11411730_623559076511_1314336147439748410_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9 That looks more like an impact crack vs a stress crack. Weird |
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Posted: 6/11/2015 11:57:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Really? Do tell. I'd like to see if I can figure out what's going on here, but I'm truly at a loss...
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Posted: 6/12/2015 12:20:24 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really? Do tell. I'd like to see if I can figure out what's going on here, but I'm truly at a loss... I don't know, I mean I'm not an engineer or a gunsmith, but it seems like that area of the feedlips doesn't get a whole lot of upward pressure on it - usually weapon mags that split (polymer) do so at the rear/spine. I just got mine yesterday so haven't had a chance to examine it in detail, but does the guns design allow for forceful/overinsertion of mags? Could a swift/aggressive mag insertion cause a hairline crack that could worsen over time as the mag was left loaded? I'm just pulling this out of the air, could be way off base. |
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Posted: 6/12/2015 8:20:26 PM EDT
[#13]
I don't feel like it allows for over insertion, especially with the bolt closed... If I was banging magazines in and out, I'd have a much easier time understanding it. Given the fact that it's happening on the feed lip that contains the top round, it almost seems like its internal pressure causing the issue. If you look at the 30 round magazine, the crack seems to be developing under the feed lip, not on top as I would expect with insertion issues. I'll get with CZ and see what they think
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Posted: 6/12/2015 9:57:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Maybe I'm missing something here. On my 30 round mag, the top round is on the right. Your pics show it on the left.
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Posted: 6/12/2015 10:20:55 PM EDT
[#15]
After the 20 round magazine cracked when loaded to capacity, I loaded the 30 round magazine to 29 rounds in an effort to alleviate pressure on the feed lips. Hence, the top round and crack on the left feed lip.
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Posted: 6/12/2015 10:50:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Oh ok makes sense
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Posted: 6/13/2015 3:31:21 PM EDT
[#17]
Look like we have a legitimate problem here and it's very dissapointing. I checked one of my rarely used 20rd and this is what I found. It is DEFINITELY not impact damage. This happened just sitting in a bag... fully loaded. I hope it is not an issue with the 30rd magazines. If so, there is no point having extra loaded magazines if this is what happens. Not one of my loaded 30s show this problem. I hope CZ finds the problem and replaces all problem magazines with good ones. They have a 5 year warranty... thankfully.
EDIT: I found the problem and it appears to be that they are using the SAME 30rd spring in the 20rd. To save money no doubt. Now we know why the 20rd magazine is so hard to load to capacity. They knew it would be and that it would also cause sore thumbs... and they ignored it. FAIL It would have been cheaper to just ship the gun with 30s and avoid the massive mag replacement that's probably already started. They will be forced to put a lighter spring in the 20rd now which they should have done from the start. My guess is that they will eventually have to replace every single 20rd that is stored loaded to capacity. FAIL I think the only reason they shipped 20rd with the gun was in order to help get it here in America... because of the nine high cap ban states but that's another issue. At least we know the 30rd magazines will likely be fine. CZ Warranty 
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Posted: 6/13/2015 3:35:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's my mag and it doesn't have a crack. I'm just saying that I've left mine loaded full for about as long in the gun and haven't had that issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sorry, it might be obvious but I don't see a crack. Maybe describe where or draw and arrow. That's my mag and it doesn't have a crack. I'm just saying that I've left mine loaded full for about as long in the gun and haven't had that issue. Why bother posting irrelevant pics then? |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 5:14:18 PM EDT
[#19]
I applaud them for getting the EVO over here but they could have done a better job with the obvious design issues. It appears that CZ would rather use existing parts(30rd spring in 20rd - full auto A1 safety) from another model to save money... even if it causes owners pain during use.
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Posted: 6/13/2015 6:05:14 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look like we have a legitimate problem here and it's very dissapointing. I checked one of my rarely used 20rd and this is what I found. It is DEFINITELY not impact damage. This happened just sitting in a bag... fully loaded. I hope it is not an issue with the 30rd magazines. If so, there is no point having extra loaded magazines if this is what happens. Not one of my loaded 30s show this problem. I hope CZ finds the problem and replaces all problem magazines with good ones. They have a 5 year warranty... thankfully. EDIT: I found the problem and it appears to be that they are using the SAME 30rd spring in the 20rd. To save money no doubt. Now we know why the 20rd magazine is so hard to load to capacity. They knew it would be and that it would also cause sore thumbs... and they ignored it. FAIL It would have been cheaper to just ship the gun with 30s and avoid the massive mag replacement that's probably already started. They will be forced to put a lighter spring in the 20rd now which they should have done from the start. My guess is that they will eventually have to replace every single 20rd that is stored loaded to capacity. FAIL I think the only reason they shipped 20rd with the gun was in order to help get it here in America... because of the nine high cap ban states but that's another issue. At least we know the 30rd magazines will likely be fine. CZ Warranty http://imageshack.com/a/img673/4631/0kIuGh.jpg In my mind (and I could be wrong) I disagree. The compressed force of the spring has to do with the distance between the follower and base plate when fully loaded. I think that is the same for the 20 and 30 round mags. I don't think the amount of bullets above the compressed spring would make a difference. The spring is still compressed the same. Although I don't have them right in front of me. I'll have to take one apart to see just how strong the spring is. But I'm not so sure the spring alone would do this. To me it would seem like a polymer issues. Hopefully contained to a small batch. The this gun has been out for a while now and this is the first time I have heard of it. I'm sure us Americans aren't the only ones who leave mags loaded. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 6:17:59 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In my mind (and I could be wrong) I disagree. The compressed force of the spring has to do with the distance between the follower and base plate when fully loaded. I think that is the same for the 20 and 30 round mags. I don't think the amount of bullets above the compressed spring would make a difference. The spring is still compressed the same. Although I don't have them right in front of me. I'll have to take one apart to see just how strong the spring is. But I'm not so sure the spring alone would do this. To me it would seem like a polymer issues. Hopefully contained to a small batch. The this gun has been out for a while now and this is the first time I have heard of it. I'm sure us Americans aren't the only ones who leave mags loaded. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Look like we have a legitimate problem here and it's very dissapointing. I checked one of my rarely used 20rd and this is what I found. It is DEFINITELY not impact damage. This happened just sitting in a bag... fully loaded. I hope it is not an issue with the 30rd magazines. If so, there is no point having extra loaded magazines if this is what happens. Not one of my loaded 30s show this problem. I hope CZ finds the problem and replaces all problem magazines with good ones. They have a 5 year warranty... thankfully. EDIT: I found the problem and it appears to be that they are using the SAME 30rd spring in the 20rd. To save money no doubt. Now we know why the 20rd magazine is so hard to load to capacity. They knew it would be and that it would also cause sore thumbs... and they ignored it. FAIL It would have been cheaper to just ship the gun with 30s and avoid the massive mag replacement that's probably already started. They will be forced to put a lighter spring in the 20rd now which they should have done from the start. My guess is that they will eventually have to replace every single 20rd that is stored loaded to capacity. FAIL I think the only reason they shipped 20rd with the gun was in order to help get it here in America... because of the nine high cap ban states but that's another issue. At least we know the 30rd magazines will likely be fine. CZ Warranty http://imageshack.com/a/img673/4631/0kIuGh.jpg In my mind (and I could be wrong) I disagree. The compressed force of the spring has to do with the distance between the follower and base plate when fully loaded. I think that is the same for the 20 and 30 round mags. I don't think the amount of bullets above the compressed spring would make a difference. The spring is still compressed the same. Although I don't have them right in front of me. I'll have to take one apart to see just how strong the spring is. But I'm not so sure the spring alone would do this. To me it would seem like a polymer issues. Hopefully contained to a small batch. The this gun has been out for a while now and this is the first time I have heard of it. I'm sure us Americans aren't the only ones who leave mags loaded. You haven't noticed how hard it is to load a 20rd to capacity? It's nothing like the 30rd and is abnormally hard. That extra and unnecessary tension is applying force to the feed lips.... and cracking them over time. If you take the same spring and preload one more than the other.... it becomes harder to compress. They are not compressed the same. Isn't that obvious as well? The force is absolutely on the feed lips.... just like it is on the base plate. Being above or below the follower is completely irrelevant. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 6:27:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You haven't noticed how hard it is to load a 20rd to capacity? It's nothing like the 30rd and is abnormally hard. That extra and unnecessary tension is applying force to the feed lips.... and cracking them over time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Look like we have a legitimate problem here and it's very dissapointing. I checked one of my rarely used 20rd and this is what I found. It is DEFINITELY not impact damage. This happened just sitting in a bag... fully loaded. I hope it is not an issue with the 30rd magazines. If so, there is no point having extra loaded magazines if this is what happens. Not one of my loaded 30s show this problem. I hope CZ finds the problem and replaces all problem magazines with good ones. They have a 5 year warranty... thankfully. EDIT: I found the problem and it appears to be that they are using the SAME 30rd spring in the 20rd. To save money no doubt. Now we know why the 20rd magazine is so hard to load to capacity. They knew it would be and that it would also cause sore thumbs... and they ignored it. FAIL It would have been cheaper to just ship the gun with 30s and avoid the massive mag replacement that's probably already started. They will be forced to put a lighter spring in the 20rd now which they should have done from the start. My guess is that they will eventually have to replace every single 20rd that is stored loaded to capacity. FAIL I think the only reason they shipped 20rd with the gun was in order to help get it here in America... because of the nine high cap ban states but that's another issue. At least we know the 30rd magazines will likely be fine. CZ Warranty http://imageshack.com/a/img673/4631/0kIuGh.jpg In my mind (and I could be wrong) I disagree. The compressed force of the spring has to do with the distance between the follower and base plate when fully loaded. I think that is the same for the 20 and 30 round mags. I don't think the amount of bullets above the compressed spring would make a difference. The spring is still compressed the same. Although I don't have them right in front of me. I'll have to take one apart to see just how strong the spring is. But I'm not so sure the spring alone would do this. To me it would seem like a polymer issues. Hopefully contained to a small batch. The this gun has been out for a while now and this is the first time I have heard of it. I'm sure us Americans aren't the only ones who leave mags loaded. You haven't noticed how hard it is to load a 20rd to capacity? It's nothing like the 30rd and is abnormally hard. That extra and unnecessary tension is applying force to the feed lips.... and cracking them over time. I can't say I have, but I never used them very much. I have noticed that sometimes a 30 is hard for the last round, but sometimes not. It seems to me like it could be the spring binding. I have read where some people have taken the spring out and flipped it around and that has helped. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 6:31:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Load 19 rounds in each mag..... a 20 and a 30. Now, load one more round in each mag. Which one is harder to insert?
The answer will be the 20rd mag because of spring tension. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 6:33:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You haven't noticed how hard it is to load a 20rd to capacity? It's nothing like the 30rd and is abnormally hard. That extra and unnecessary tension is applying force to the feed lips.... and cracking them over time. If you take the same spring and preload one more than the other.... it becomes harder to compress. They are not compressed the same. Isn't that obvious as well? The force is absolutely on the feed lips.... just like it is on the base plate. Being above or below the follower is completely irrelevant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Look like we have a legitimate problem here and it's very dissapointing. I checked one of my rarely used 20rd and this is what I found. It is DEFINITELY not impact damage. This happened just sitting in a bag... fully loaded. I hope it is not an issue with the 30rd magazines. If so, there is no point having extra loaded magazines if this is what happens. Not one of my loaded 30s show this problem. I hope CZ finds the problem and replaces all problem magazines with good ones. They have a 5 year warranty... thankfully. EDIT: I found the problem and it appears to be that they are using the SAME 30rd spring in the 20rd. To save money no doubt. Now we know why the 20rd magazine is so hard to load to capacity. They knew it would be and that it would also cause sore thumbs... and they ignored it. FAIL It would have been cheaper to just ship the gun with 30s and avoid the massive mag replacement that's probably already started. They will be forced to put a lighter spring in the 20rd now which they should have done from the start. My guess is that they will eventually have to replace every single 20rd that is stored loaded to capacity. FAIL I think the only reason they shipped 20rd with the gun was in order to help get it here in America... because of the nine high cap ban states but that's another issue. At least we know the 30rd magazines will likely be fine. CZ Warranty http://imageshack.com/a/img673/4631/0kIuGh.jpg In my mind (and I could be wrong) I disagree. The compressed force of the spring has to do with the distance between the follower and base plate when fully loaded. I think that is the same for the 20 and 30 round mags. I don't think the amount of bullets above the compressed spring would make a difference. The spring is still compressed the same. Although I don't have them right in front of me. I'll have to take one apart to see just how strong the spring is. But I'm not so sure the spring alone would do this. To me it would seem like a polymer issues. Hopefully contained to a small batch. The this gun has been out for a while now and this is the first time I have heard of it. I'm sure us Americans aren't the only ones who leave mags loaded. You haven't noticed how hard it is to load a 20rd to capacity? It's nothing like the 30rd and is abnormally hard. That extra and unnecessary tension is applying force to the feed lips.... and cracking them over time. If you take the same spring and preload one more than the other.... it becomes harder to compress. They are not compressed the same. Isn't that obvious as well? The force is absolutely on the feed lips.... just like it is on the base plate. Being above or below the follower is completely irrelevant. Right, and I agree with that. What I am saying is when both the 20 and 30 are fully loaded isn't the spring pre loaded the same? Does the spring in each end up being the same height when compressed? The only difference is one has 10 more bullets, but the mag is longer too. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 6:36:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Load 19 rounds in each mag..... a 20 and a 30. Now, load one more round in each mag. Which one is harder to insert? The answer will be the 20rd mag because of spring tension. In this scenario I agree because the springs are different height due to one mag being longer. I am talking about the final compressed height of the spring. Like it would be if left fully loaded. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 6:36:50 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Right, and I agree with that. What I am saying is when both the 20 and 30 are fully loaded isn't the spring pre loaded the same? Does the spring in each end up being the same height when compressed? The only difference is one has 10 more bullets, but the mag is longer too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Look like we have a legitimate problem here and it's very dissapointing. I checked one of my rarely used 20rd and this is what I found. It is DEFINITELY not impact damage. This happened just sitting in a bag... fully loaded. I hope it is not an issue with the 30rd magazines. If so, there is no point having extra loaded magazines if this is what happens. Not one of my loaded 30s show this problem. I hope CZ finds the problem and replaces all problem magazines with good ones. They have a 5 year warranty... thankfully. EDIT: I found the problem and it appears to be that they are using the SAME 30rd spring in the 20rd. To save money no doubt. Now we know why the 20rd magazine is so hard to load to capacity. They knew it would be and that it would also cause sore thumbs... and they ignored it. FAIL It would have been cheaper to just ship the gun with 30s and avoid the massive mag replacement that's probably already started. They will be forced to put a lighter spring in the 20rd now which they should have done from the start. My guess is that they will eventually have to replace every single 20rd that is stored loaded to capacity. FAIL I think the only reason they shipped 20rd with the gun was in order to help get it here in America... because of the nine high cap ban states but that's another issue. At least we know the 30rd magazines will likely be fine. CZ Warranty http://imageshack.com/a/img673/4631/0kIuGh.jpg In my mind (and I could be wrong) I disagree. The compressed force of the spring has to do with the distance between the follower and base plate when fully loaded. I think that is the same for the 20 and 30 round mags. I don't think the amount of bullets above the compressed spring would make a difference. The spring is still compressed the same. Although I don't have them right in front of me. I'll have to take one apart to see just how strong the spring is. But I'm not so sure the spring alone would do this. To me it would seem like a polymer issues. Hopefully contained to a small batch. The this gun has been out for a while now and this is the first time I have heard of it. I'm sure us Americans aren't the only ones who leave mags loaded. You haven't noticed how hard it is to load a 20rd to capacity? It's nothing like the 30rd and is abnormally hard. That extra and unnecessary tension is applying force to the feed lips.... and cracking them over time. If you take the same spring and preload one more than the other.... it becomes harder to compress. They are not compressed the same. Isn't that obvious as well? The force is absolutely on the feed lips.... just like it is on the base plate. Being above or below the follower is completely irrelevant. Right, and I agree with that. What I am saying is when both the 20 and 30 are fully loaded isn't the spring pre loaded the same? Does the spring in each end up being the same height when compressed? The only difference is one has 10 more bullets, but the mag is longer too. NO. That's the whole point. When fully loaded the 20rd mag spring is compressed far more than the 30rd.... because they are the same exact spring. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 6:49:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NO. That's the whole point. When fully loaded the 20rd mag spring is compressed far more than the 30rd.... because they are the same exact spring. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Look like we have a legitimate problem here and it's very dissapointing. I checked one of my rarely used 20rd and this is what I found. It is DEFINITELY not impact damage. This happened just sitting in a bag... fully loaded. I hope it is not an issue with the 30rd magazines. If so, there is no point having extra loaded magazines if this is what happens. Not one of my loaded 30s show this problem. I hope CZ finds the problem and replaces all problem magazines with good ones. They have a 5 year warranty... thankfully. EDIT: I found the problem and it appears to be that they are using the SAME 30rd spring in the 20rd. To save money no doubt. Now we know why the 20rd magazine is so hard to load to capacity. They knew it would be and that it would also cause sore thumbs... and they ignored it. FAIL It would have been cheaper to just ship the gun with 30s and avoid the massive mag replacement that's probably already started. They will be forced to put a lighter spring in the 20rd now which they should have done from the start. My guess is that they will eventually have to replace every single 20rd that is stored loaded to capacity. FAIL I think the only reason they shipped 20rd with the gun was in order to help get it here in America... because of the nine high cap ban states but that's another issue. At least we know the 30rd magazines will likely be fine. CZ Warranty http://imageshack.com/a/img673/4631/0kIuGh.jpg In my mind (and I could be wrong) I disagree. The compressed force of the spring has to do with the distance between the follower and base plate when fully loaded. I think that is the same for the 20 and 30 round mags. I don't think the amount of bullets above the compressed spring would make a difference. The spring is still compressed the same. Although I don't have them right in front of me. I'll have to take one apart to see just how strong the spring is. But I'm not so sure the spring alone would do this. To me it would seem like a polymer issues. Hopefully contained to a small batch. The this gun has been out for a while now and this is the first time I have heard of it. I'm sure us Americans aren't the only ones who leave mags loaded. You haven't noticed how hard it is to load a 20rd to capacity? It's nothing like the 30rd and is abnormally hard. That extra and unnecessary tension is applying force to the feed lips.... and cracking them over time. If you take the same spring and preload one more than the other.... it becomes harder to compress. They are not compressed the same. Isn't that obvious as well? The force is absolutely on the feed lips.... just like it is on the base plate. Being above or below the follower is completely irrelevant. Right, and I agree with that. What I am saying is when both the 20 and 30 are fully loaded isn't the spring pre loaded the same? Does the spring in each end up being the same height when compressed? The only difference is one has 10 more bullets, but the mag is longer too. NO. That's the whole point. When fully loaded the 20rd mag spring is compressed far more than the 30rd.... because they are the same exact spring. Ok. Like I said they are not infront of me. I am only going off the potential energy in a spring PE=1/2kx^2. X is the distance the spring is compressed. Maybe you could load both the 20 and 30 round mags and measure from the bottom of the base plate to the bottom of the lowest bullet. Is the distance the same or different? |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 7:08:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Take two empty mags and look at them. The 20rd mag is already preloaded more with nothing in them at all.
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Posted: 6/13/2015 7:23:11 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Take two empty mags and look at them. The 20rd mag is already preloaded more with nothing in them at all. Yes, but that is irrelevant, we are talking about fully loaded. The final compressed height of the springs. If you load 10 rounds into the 30 you compressed the spring the same as the empty 20 round mag. Now imagine that stack of 10 bullets is just a really long follower. Now you can put only 20 in each but your initial spring tensions were the same. You keep bringing up scenarios where the spring height X is different. And the formula says you are right. But when fully loaded is X the same or different? |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 7:45:14 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, but that is irrelevant, we are talking about fully loaded. The final compressed height of the springs. If you load 10 rounds into the 30 you compressed the spring the same as the empty 20 round mag. Now imagine that stack of 10 bullets is just a really long follower. Now you can put only 20 in each but your initial spring tensions were the same. You keep bringing up scenarios where the spring height X is different. And the formula says you are right. But when fully loaded is X the same or different? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Take two empty mags and look at them. The 20rd mag is already preloaded more with nothing in them at all. Yes, but that is irrelevant, we are talking about fully loaded. The final compressed height of the springs. If you load 10 rounds into the 30 you compressed the spring the same as the empty 20 round mag. Now imagine that stack of 10 bullets is just a really long follower. Now you can put only 20 in each but your initial spring tensions were the same. You keep bringing up scenarios where the spring height X is different. And the formula says you are right. But when fully loaded is X the same or different? Yeah, I guess the preload will eventually equalize as you keep loading more rounds in the 30rd. I'm not sure what is going on but my 20s are harder to load the last few rounds. So, overall the 20 will be a little harder to fill start to finish but the end pressure should be equal on the feed lips. Maybe it is a bad batch but it only seems to be affecting 20s so far. I hope it stays that way. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 7:50:38 PM EDT
[#31]
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Yeah, I guess the preload will eventually equalize as you keep loading more rounds in the 30rd. I'm not sure what is going on but my 20s are harder to load the last few rounds. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Take two empty mags and look at them. The 20rd mag is already preloaded more with nothing in them at all. Yes, but that is irrelevant, we are talking about fully loaded. The final compressed height of the springs. If you load 10 rounds into the 30 you compressed the spring the same as the empty 20 round mag. Now imagine that stack of 10 bullets is just a really long follower. Now you can put only 20 in each but your initial spring tensions were the same. You keep bringing up scenarios where the spring height X is different. And the formula says you are right. But when fully loaded is X the same or different? Yeah, I guess the preload will eventually equalize as you keep loading more rounds in the 30rd. I'm not sure what is going on but my 20s are harder to load the last few rounds. Try taking out the spring and flipping it around. If could be a binding issue. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 7:59:00 PM EDT
[#32]
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Try taking out the spring and flipping it around. If could be a binding issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Take two empty mags and look at them. The 20rd mag is already preloaded more with nothing in them at all. Yes, but that is irrelevant, we are talking about fully loaded. The final compressed height of the springs. If you load 10 rounds into the 30 you compressed the spring the same as the empty 20 round mag. Now imagine that stack of 10 bullets is just a really long follower. Now you can put only 20 in each but your initial spring tensions were the same. You keep bringing up scenarios where the spring height X is different. And the formula says you are right. But when fully loaded is X the same or different? Yeah, I guess the preload will eventually equalize as you keep loading more rounds in the 30rd. I'm not sure what is going on but my 20s are harder to load the last few rounds. Try taking out the spring and flipping it around. If could be a binding issue. Tried it... feels the same. My feed lip broke completely off. It will still retain the bullets though because there is enough meat where the feed lip meets the back edge of the mag. I think that the mags will still function even if both feed lips break off. They are just too strong on that back edge to break enough where it won't function. I guess that is a little bit of reief. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 8:24:06 PM EDT
[#33]
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Tried it... feels the same. My feed lip broke completely off. It will still retain the bullets though because there is enough meat where the feed lip meets the back edge of the mag. I think that the mags will still function even if both feed lips break off. They are just too strong on that back edge to break enough where it won't function. I guess that is a little bit of reief. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Take two empty mags and look at them. The 20rd mag is already preloaded more with nothing in them at all. Yes, but that is irrelevant, we are talking about fully loaded. The final compressed height of the springs. If you load 10 rounds into the 30 you compressed the spring the same as the empty 20 round mag. Now imagine that stack of 10 bullets is just a really long follower. Now you can put only 20 in each but your initial spring tensions were the same. You keep bringing up scenarios where the spring height X is different. And the formula says you are right. But when fully loaded is X the same or different? Yeah, I guess the preload will eventually equalize as you keep loading more rounds in the 30rd. I'm not sure what is going on but my 20s are harder to load the last few rounds. Try taking out the spring and flipping it around. If could be a binding issue. Tried it... feels the same. My feed lip broke completely off. It will still retain the bullets though because there is enough meat where the feed lip meets the back edge of the mag. I think that the mags will still function even if both feed lips break off. They are just too strong on that back edge to break enough where it won't function. I guess that is a little bit of reief. I am interested in what CZ has to say about it. Maybe it was a bad batch. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 8:37:03 PM EDT
[#34]
They will probably just apologize and send a replacement out. I already turned mine in on warranty... with the pic I posted.
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Posted: 6/13/2015 9:16:46 PM EDT
[#35]
I have forwarded my concerns to CZ and am waiting for a reply. I've never had a SMG mag that wasn't at least somewhat of a bitch to load, all more so than rifle mags that I've owned. Yeah, I know... Subjective experience is subjective, but thinking about what a pain it can be to load many SMG mags and considering the "brittle" nature of of G36 or SAN 55X mags (which feel very similar IMO), is starting to give me concern...
Speaking of less than awesome translucent European magazines, I'm starting to wonder if there's an issue potentially with solvents/lubricants like AUG mags have experienced. Hopefully, CZ has some answers |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 10:28:09 PM EDT
[#36]
You guys are discussing the spring tension in the 20s vs the 30s, but we have the OP stating that BOTH his 20 and 30 round mags are developing cracks.
So the 20s may be at greater risk, but it sounds like we're dealing with a design flaw that affects either mag. This gun has been in service for several years now. Wouldn't someone in Europe have noticed an issue by now? |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 10:32:55 PM EDT
[#37]
I'm not a fan of translucent mags in general - translucent materials tend to be much more brittle and prone to cracking. I'd prefer windowed mags over fully translucent mags.
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Posted: 6/13/2015 10:36:33 PM EDT
[#38]
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You guys are discussing the spring tension in the 20s vs the 30s, but we have the OP stating that BOTH his 20 and 30 round mags are developing cracks. So the 20s may be at greater risk, but it sounds like we're dealing with a design flaw that affects either mag. This gun has been in service for several years now. Wouldn't someone in Europe have noticed an issue by now? That's what makes me think it could possibly be a problem with the plastic. I know they have date codes on them, but I'm not sure how useful that info is. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 11:31:24 PM EDT
[#39]
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Why bother posting irrelevant pics then? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sorry, it might be obvious but I don't see a crack. Maybe describe where or draw and arrow. That's my mag and it doesn't have a crack. I'm just saying that I've left mine loaded full for about as long in the gun and haven't had that issue. Why bother posting irrelevant pics then? Because mine don't have that problem so it isn't all mags. And because 'Murica. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 11:53:05 PM EDT
[#40]
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I'm not a fan of translucent mags in general - translucent materials tend to be much more brittle and prone to cracking. I'd prefer windowed mags over fully translucent mags. There were translucent/clear variants of the Pmag and ARC mag, but neither made it to market due to the lack of durability of available materials...and before anyone mentions the Lancer and tries to turn this into a Lancer vs Pmag debate, look at the former's design compared to the latter. Apples and pineapples in terms of design... Yeah, the EVO has been around for a few years but I'd wager there are more pistols here in the U.S. getting "beta tested" compared to the what, maybe 500-1k issued weapons abroad. I'd wager the average hillbilly on YouTube has more rounds down range with a Scorpion pistol than a European operator who is operating operationally My point is that if there's an inherent issue with the magazine design/materials, it will be discovered here on arfcom, not some arms room of the Bratislavian Federal Border Investigation Patrol.
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Posted: 6/14/2015 12:24:54 AM EDT
[#41]
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There were translucent/clear variants of the Pmag and ARC mag, but neither made it to market due to the lack of durability of available materials...and before anyone mentions the Lancer and tries to turn this into a Lancer vs Pmag debate, look at the former's design compared to the latter. Apples and pineapples in terms of design... Yeah, the EVO has been around for a few years but I'd wager there are more pistols here in the U.S. getting "beta tested" compared to the what, maybe 500-1k issued weapons abroad. I'd wager the average hillbilly on YouTube has more rounds down range with a Scorpion pistol than a European operator who is operating operationally My point is that if there's an inherent issue with the magazine design/materials, it will be discovered here on arfcom, not some arms room of the Bratislavian Federal Border Investigation Patrol.
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I'm not a fan of translucent mags in general - translucent materials tend to be much more brittle and prone to cracking. I'd prefer windowed mags over fully translucent mags. There were translucent/clear variants of the Pmag and ARC mag, but neither made it to market due to the lack of durability of available materials...and before anyone mentions the Lancer and tries to turn this into a Lancer vs Pmag debate, look at the former's design compared to the latter. Apples and pineapples in terms of design... Yeah, the EVO has been around for a few years but I'd wager there are more pistols here in the U.S. getting "beta tested" compared to the what, maybe 500-1k issued weapons abroad. I'd wager the average hillbilly on YouTube has more rounds down range with a Scorpion pistol than a European operator who is operating operationally My point is that if there's an inherent issue with the magazine design/materials, it will be discovered here on arfcom, not some arms room of the Bratislavian Federal Border Investigation Patrol.
Not to mention the greatest possible failure location on the Lancer mags is metal reinforced... |
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Posted: 6/14/2015 2:13:44 AM EDT
[#42]
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Because mine don't have that problem so it isn't all mags. And because 'Murica. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sorry, it might be obvious but I don't see a crack. Maybe describe where or draw and arrow. That's my mag and it doesn't have a crack. I'm just saying that I've left mine loaded full for about as long in the gun and haven't had that issue. Why bother posting irrelevant pics then? Because mine don't have that problem so it isn't all mags. And because 'Murica. I think most everyone knows what a crack free mag looks like but good thing you posted three pics to show them. Everyone else will be looking for the cracks... cuz why else would you post them. Oh yeah..."'Murica"! 
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Posted: 6/14/2015 2:28:35 AM EDT
[#43]
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You guys are discussing the spring tension in the 20s vs the 30s, but we have the OP stating that BOTH his 20 and 30 round mags are developing cracks. So the 20s may be at greater risk, but it sounds like we're dealing with a design flaw that affects either mag. This gun has been in service for several years now. Wouldn't someone in Europe have noticed an issue by now? I missed that. All of my 30s look great. I sure hope it's limited to a bad batch or the mag problem is going to become a whole new monster. They'll have to use their stock for warranty replacement mags. It's definitely dissapointing to see an issue like this coming to light. I'm curious to know if the 20rds are widespread or were mainly produced to help get the gun here in the US. |
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Posted: 6/14/2015 9:50:05 PM EDT
[#44]
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I missed that. All of my 30s look great. I sure hope it's limited to a bad batch or the mag problem is going to become a whole new monster. They'll have to use their stock for warranty replacement mags. It's definitely dissapointing to see an issue like this coming to light. I'm curious to know if the 20rds are widespread or were mainly produced to help get the gun here in the US. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You guys are discussing the spring tension in the 20s vs the 30s, but we have the OP stating that BOTH his 20 and 30 round mags are developing cracks. So the 20s may be at greater risk, but it sounds like we're dealing with a design flaw that affects either mag. This gun has been in service for several years now. Wouldn't someone in Europe have noticed an issue by now? I missed that. All of my 30s look great. I sure hope it's limited to a bad batch or the mag problem is going to become a whole new monster. They'll have to use their stock for warranty replacement mags. It's definitely dissapointing to see an issue like this coming to light. I'm curious to know if the 20rds are widespread or were mainly produced to help get the gun here in the US. It's not batch related, unfortunately. The 20 and 30 both have different date codes, and are different part numbers... I'm not sure what is widespread with the EVO, honestly. Anymore, most SMG's are low volume "niche" guns and the EVO occupies a small portion of a small market. I'd be interested to learn some production stats as I still feel like the U.S. consumer is the largest user of this platform. |
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Posted: 6/14/2015 9:52:28 PM EDT
[#45]
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It's not batch related, unfortunately. The 20 and 30 both have different date codes, and are different part numbers... I'm not sure what is widespread with the EVO, honestly. Anymore, most SMG's are low volume "niche" guns and the EVO occupies a small portion of a small market. I'd be interested to learn some production stats as I still feel like the U.S. consumer is the largest user of this platform. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You guys are discussing the spring tension in the 20s vs the 30s, but we have the OP stating that BOTH his 20 and 30 round mags are developing cracks. So the 20s may be at greater risk, but it sounds like we're dealing with a design flaw that affects either mag. This gun has been in service for several years now. Wouldn't someone in Europe have noticed an issue by now? I missed that. All of my 30s look great. I sure hope it's limited to a bad batch or the mag problem is going to become a whole new monster. They'll have to use their stock for warranty replacement mags. It's definitely dissapointing to see an issue like this coming to light. I'm curious to know if the 20rds are widespread or were mainly produced to help get the gun here in the US. It's not batch related, unfortunately. The 20 and 30 both have different date codes, and are different part numbers... I'm not sure what is widespread with the EVO, honestly. Anymore, most SMG's are low volume "niche" guns and the EVO occupies a small portion of a small market. I'd be interested to learn some production stats as I still feel like the U.S. consumer is the largest user of this platform. Anxious to hear CZ weigh in on this |
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Posted: 6/15/2015 11:21:26 PM EDT
[#46]
CZ's reply
"I will forward your email onto the parts department to see what they are able to do to help you out. Although I am curious as to how you hold the pistol when firing. When you shoot, do you have your hand placed on the magazine at all? Similar to how many people shoot an AR-15 with their support hand on the magwell. Or do you have your hand on the handguard, not putting any pressure on the magazine?" Despite me explaining that these magazines cracked during storage, he asked how I was holding the pistol the few times I've actually shot it. I replied that I use a magazine as a device to feed a weapon, not as a VFG or a potato peeler or a door-stop. I then inquired as to if there was a known issue between the grip/usage of the pistol and magazine breakage. Surely, using a magazine as a VFG could cause a failure in any number of weapons, however, it's hard to imagine a particular grip causing a quality magazine to fracture like this... I'm guessing they'll replace the magazines, which is nice and appreciated, but I hope I don't have to be constantly replacing magazines in this weapon... Will update with their reply. |
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Posted: 6/16/2015 5:13:52 AM EDT
[#47]
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CZ's reply
I'm guessing they'll replace the magazines, which is nice and appreciated, but I hope I don't have to be constantly replacing magazines in this weapon... Will update with their reply. Hopefully it's just a bad batch, but it sounds like it might be more related to them using the spring from the 30rd mag. If they have to replaced every 20rd mag because of this issue then CZ might want to be a little more proactive and see if a lighter spring would correct the issue and offer a replacement for free. |
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Posted: 6/16/2015 5:20:33 AM EDT
[#48]
I have yet to have issue with my gun or my magazines. FWIW
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Posted: 6/16/2015 7:42:38 AM EDT
[#49]
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Hopefully it's just a bad batch, but it sounds like it might be more related to them using the spring from the 30rd mag. If they have to replaced every 20rd mag because of this issue then CZ might want to be a little more proactive and see if a lighter spring would correct the issue and offer a replacement for free. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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CZ's reply
I'm guessing they'll replace the magazines, which is nice and appreciated, but I hope I don't have to be constantly replacing magazines in this weapon... Will update with their reply. Hopefully it's just a bad batch, but it sounds like it might be more related to them using the spring from the 30rd mag. If they have to replaced every 20rd mag because of this issue then CZ might want to be a little more proactive and see if a lighter spring would correct the issue and offer a replacement for free. I've got a couple of 20s that I have no real use for, I wonder if it would be worth experimenting with clipping one of the springs to reduce the tension. I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to bend the bottom of the spring to match the floor plate. Anyone with more engineering/physics knowledge than me who can weigh in on roughly how much of the thing could be clipped off? |
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Posted: 6/16/2015 3:47:41 PM EDT
[#50]
Well, I just pulled out my handy dandy flashlight to look at both of my twenty rounders.
Both cracked on the inside. 
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