Is it possible to switch any mechanical lock to electric?

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Unfortunately the only informationI have on the safe lock is that it contains a "Type I Electronic Lock"....not sure what the differences are between Type I and Group 2 locks....

P2B

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Thanks for the help...My safe is a Cannon Safe.  I can take some photos and hopefully there might be some input on converting the electronic lock to a manual combo.  I will post safe model info as well.

Thanks for reaching out and providing help.....I appreciate it!

P2B

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I'll explain the swap in some detail, so you can decide if you want to attempt it, or hire a pro. This is a swap that as an experienced pro takes me about 30 minutes (going from mechanical to electronic is easier).

A Cannon more than likely has a LaGard electronic lock, but it could have a Sargent & Greenleaf. Either way, the mounting footprint (mounting screw pattern) will be indentical to that used by a S&G 6730 or LaGard 3300 mechanical lock (all 4 use same screw holes). There's six steps below that take some knowledge (or at least some coaching ), after the old lock is removed . First & fifth are simple mechanics, rest are not so simple, and require know-how.

1) Screw new lock body to the door with the lock bolt pointing in the same direction as the one on the lock you removed was pointing.  

2) Install dial ring on outer door. You must center the ring around the dial spindle hole in the lock body, so that the dial doesn't bind when turned. The dial ring gets screwed to the outer door using the same holes as the keypad studs. But the holes which the screws pass through on the ring are slightly elongated, so there's some "play" , for exact centering over the hole in the lock body where the dial spindle enters it. You don't just screw it on in "any old position". I usually look through the hole in the ring  and into the hole in the lock, and line the two holes up visually... like using a peep sight.

3) Cutting the dial spindle to the correct length (they all come a long, universal length, and must be cut to fit the door thickness of the safe you're mounting it on). This is precision stuff, and likely the most critical step. Too long, it hits the lock's back cover when it's turned... if real long, it won't turn at all when the cover plate on the lock gets screwed in place. Cut it too short, it's ruined... you can't glue it back together. The perfect fit is so that the back edge of the spline key is flush with, or a little above, the face of the driver wheel. I usually screw the driver on the spindle (with spindle inserted into lock, with dial installed onto ring) until the proper spline match-up (explained later), then mark spindle with a felt-tip marker at the driver wheel. I then unscrew it, remove dial from ring. Thread driver wheel back onto spindle, well past your marking, then cut spindle at 3 threads towards dial end from where felt-tip pen was kept from marking spindle by driver. After cutting, unthreading driver will now "clean up" the threads where you cut.

4) Next is installing the dial into the ring and spindle through lock. Thread driver wheel onto the (cut to length) dial spindle and spline the driver wheel correctly to match the handing of the lock (handing = which of four directions the lock's bolt is pointing). There's 4 possible mounting positions, like the compass points on a map. You don't choose or decide, it'll only fit your safe's pre-drilled/tapped lock body screw mounting holes two ways, and only one is correct ... with the lock bolt interferring with the bolt linkage. The driver wheel will be marked at four positions (north, south, east , west), and have a small cut-out in the threads by each, to accept the spline key. The driver wheel is threaded onto the spindle until the marking that corresponds with the way the lock is handed is aligned with the single spline cut in the dial spindle, and the dial is not too loose, nor too tight. The spline key is then inserted between spline cut in driver and the single spline cut in the spindle, locking the spindle & driver wheel into one piece. BTW.... those markings on the driver wheel are not N, S, E, W.... they are VU (vertical up), VD (vertical down), RH (right-handed), LH (left-handed), and corrrespond with which way the lock-bolt is pointing.  Most common handing is RH for most safes, but on gun safes, which typically have the handle below the lock, it's usually VD. (Not a hard & fast rule, but most safes' locks are mounted so the lock's bolt points toward the handle, because that's where the lock bolt blocks the handle and/or door bolt linkages).

5) Installing the lock's rear cover plate and relocker. If I were you, I'd take a picture of how the electronic lock is installed before you remove it, so you can install the relocker the same way it was.  

6) After it's installed, it's time to set your combination. I've had new locks come from the box set at 50-50-50 or sometimes they're set at 50-25-50. Obviously, this must be changed. When doing so, the 3rd number should never be near what's called the "drop-in point", because if it is, is causes the lock to bind up. If splined correctly, the drop-in point will be at about the number "7" on the dial. The 3rd number should not be set within about 12-13 numbers of this number in both directions, or not between 95-20 (I use 90-25 to be safe). It doesn't matter on the 1st two numbers, just the 3rd. Directions on combo changing procedure, and a special tool needed to do so, come with the new locks.  

Always always always test everything, especially combo, 10 times in a row with the door open.  If it does not work EVERY time, reset  it again. Problems are 1,000 times easier to solve with the door open, vs with the door locked and unable to be opened.

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Great Info!!  The lock is a Lagard....Thank You for the most detail I have been able to find...If I could, I would like to take a photo one step at a time and post PRIOR to destroying a working assembly!!  

I think I would like to purchase a S&G combo to begin the project.  I will post the front and rear/inner workings of the current lock prior to moving forward.  Any help is appreciated!

P2B

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I'm confused.  The old electric lock is LaGard?  Or the new mechanical lock is LaGard?  The photo shows SecuRam. Does SecuRam = LaGard?

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I'll explain the swap in some detail, so you can decide if you want to attempt it, or hire a pro. This is a swap that as an experienced pro takes me about 30 minutes (going from mechanical to electronic is easier).

A Cannon more than likely has a LaGard electronic lock, but it could have a Sargent & Greenleaf. Either way, the mounting footprint (mounting screw pattern) will be indentical to that used by a S&G 6730 or LaGard 3300 mechanical lock (all 4 use same screw holes). There's six steps below that take some knowledge (or at least some coaching ), after the old lock is removed . First & fifth are simple mechanics, rest are not so simple, and require know-how.

1) Screw new lock body to the door with the lock bolt pointing in the same direction as the one on the lock you removed was pointing.  

Very simple....use of a magnetic screw driver is recommended....really no difficulty here.




2) Install dial ring on outer door. You must center the ring around the dial spindle hole in the lock body, so that the dial doesn't bind when turned. The dial ring gets screwed to the outer door using the same holes as the keypad studs. But the holes which the screws pass through on the ring are slightly elongated, so there's some "play" , for exact centering over the hole in the lock body where the dial spindle enters it. You don't just screw it on in "any old position". I usually look through the hole in the ring  and into the hole in the lock, and line the two holes up visually... like using a peep sight.

This was very straight forward and the "peep site" reference was on target



3) Cutting the dial spindle to the correct length (they all come a long, universal length, and must be cut to fit the door thickness of the safe you're mounting it on). This is precision stuff, and likely the most critical step. Too long, it hits the lock's back cover when it's turned... if real long, it won't turn at all when the cover plate on the lock gets screwed in place. Cut it too short, it's ruined... you can't glue it back together. The perfect fit is so that the back edge of the spline key is flush with, or a little above, the face of the driver wheel. I usually screw the driver on the spindle (with spindle inserted into lock, with dial installed onto ring) until the proper spline match-up (explained later), then mark spindle with a felt-tip marker at the driver wheel. I then unscrew it, remove dial from ring. Thread driver wheel back onto spindle, well past your marking, then cut spindle at 3 threads towards dial end from where felt-tip pen was kept from marking spindle by driver. After cutting, unthreading driver will now "clean up" the threads where you cut.

Scariest part...but worked out great with minimal effort.  Cut was straight forward and provided nice action on the combo dial.



4) Next is installing the dial into the ring and spindle through lock. Thread driver wheel onto the (cut to length) dial spindle and spline the driver wheel correctly to match the handing of the lock (handing = which of four directions the lock's bolt is pointing). There's 4 possible mounting positions, like the compass points on a map. You don't choose or decide, it'll only fit your safe's pre-drilled/tapped lock body screw mounting holes two ways, and only one is correct ... with the lock bolt interferring with the bolt linkage. The driver wheel will be marked at four positions (north, south, east , west), and have a small cut-out in the threads by each, to accept the spline key. The driver wheel is threaded onto the spindle until the marking that corresponds with the way the lock is handed is aligned with the single spline cut in the dial spindle, and the dial is not too loose, nor too tight. The spline key is then inserted between spline cut in driver and the single spline cut in the spindle, locking the spindle & driver wheel into one piece. BTW.... those markings on the driver wheel are not N, S, E, W.... they are VU (vertical up), VD (vertical down), RH (right-handed), LH (left-handed), and corrrespond with which way the lock-bolt is pointing.  Most common handing is RH for most safes, but on gun safes, which typically have the handle below the lock, it's usually VD. (Not a hard & fast rule, but most safes' locks are mounted so the lock's bolt points toward the handle, because that's where the lock bolt blocks the handle and/or door bolt linkages).

Again, a very straight forward instruction....be careful with the spline key as the kit only provides one.  Went on smooth and as planned!



5) Installing the lock's rear cover plate and relocker. If I were you, I'd take a picture of how the electronic lock is installed before you remove it, so you can install the relocker the same way it was.  

6) After it's installed, it's time to set your combination. I've had new locks come from the box set at 50-50-50 or sometimes they're set at 50-25-50. Obviously, this must be changed. When doing so, the 3rd number should never be near what's called the "drop-in point", because if it is, is causes the lock to bind up. If splined correctly, the drop-in point will be at about the number "7" on the dial. The 3rd number should not be set within about 12-13 numbers of this number in both directions, or not between 95-20 (I use 90-25 to be safe). It doesn't matter on the 1st two numbers, just the 3rd. Directions on combo changing procedure, and a special tool needed to do so, come with the new locks.  

The back plate and relocker were installed with no issues....very straight foward.  Here is a picture of the front with the replacement combination lock!!!



Always always always test everything, especially combo, 10 times in a row with the door open.  If it does not work EVERY time, reset  it again. Problems are 1,000 times easier to solve with the door open, vs with the door locked and unable to be opened.