Buying guns as an FFL

Site Notices

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Buying guns as an FFL

Posted: 9/4/2009 3:29:27 PM EDT

I finally received my FFL about 2 weeks ago I'm happy to say. I had a question about buying guns from private individuals. Do I need to log the guns I buy in my bound book or only when I have sold them(and show they were acquired from me)? I know that to transfer a gun that came into your FFL or that you have already logged, you have to execute a background check on yourself but I don't have a clear answer for this.

Posted: 9/4/2009 3:35:32 PM EDT

[#1]

This should have been covered during your interview. We log in our guns by COB of the day they arrive on our premises, though the law gives you until COB of the next business day.

Posted: 9/4/2009 3:38:08 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
This should have been covered during your interview. We log in our guns by COB of the day they arrive on our premises, though the law gives you until COB of the next business day.

Yes, I did speak to the inspector about this. He told me that I could still buy guns no differently than before. If they arrive to my FFL, of course they need to be put in the bound book right away. However, these guns I might just meet somebody or go to their house and buy them. Of course, selling has to be done on premises, I know that.

Posted: 9/4/2009 6:20:12 PM EDT

[#3]

Whatever or wherever you acquire guns, they must go into your A&D book.

You don't do any checks on yourself.

Just log them in from whom you acquire them and log them out to yourself if you want to personally own them.

Posted: 9/4/2009 8:51:24 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Whatever or wherever you acquire guns, they must go into your A&D book.

You don't do any checks on yourself.

Just log them in from whom you acquire them and log them out to yourself if you want to personally own them.

You need to do a little more looking into the laws on this. It is a little more complicated then above and applies to FFL;s that are set up under an individual's name. If you set up a company and the company holds the License then you DO have to fill out an 4473 on yourself

Posted: 9/5/2009 5:06:49 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Whatever or wherever you acquire guns, they must go into your A&D book.

You don't do any checks on yourself.

Just log them in from whom you acquire them and log them out to yourself if you want to personally own them.

You need to do a little more looking into the laws on this. It is a little more complicated then above and applies to FFL;s that are set up under an individual's name. If you set up a company corporation or LLC and the company corporation or LLC holds the License then you DO have to fill out an 4473 on yourself

not to get too technical.....if your set up a corporation (INC) or LLC as the business "owner" then you'll need to run a 4473 and NICS on your self when buying from the "owner".

If your name is on the FFL and you simply have a business trade name that's when you log out the guns you want as "transferred to owners personal collection" with no need for the 4473 and NICS check.

Posted: 9/5/2009 7:51:53 AM EDT

[#6]

+1

With the OP's questions and statements, I assumed he was a sole proprietorship.

Posted: 9/5/2009 8:03:04 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
+1

With the OP's questions and statements, I assumed he was a sole proprietorship.

I actually have an LLC which is probably why I was told I would have to run a background check on myself to transfer a gun to my personal collection.

Posted: 9/16/2009 6:06:51 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
+1

With the OP's questions and statements, I assumed he was a sole proprietorship.

I actually have an LLC which is probably why I was told I would have to run a background check on myself to transfer a gun to my personal collection.

With an LLC, you will need to have a NICS check/4473 done on the gun. You will need to have an "associate" complete the 4473 for you.

Posted: 9/16/2009 8:30:42 AM EDT

[#9]

I maintain another A&D book for my personal collection - anything that goes from my dealer inventory to my personal side gets logged out of the dealer book to the personal book.

Remember that if it's in your personal collection (and been there for at least a year), you can do an in-state transfer to an individual without a NICS check, just like any other private seller... local and state laws permitting, of course.

Posted: 9/17/2009 4:16:23 PM EDT

[#10]

I think I understand what you're asking, so I'll try to help you out.

You (personally, not your LLC) decide to buy a gun from Joe Shmoe. You buy it and it is for all intents and purposes now part of your personal collection. If you decide to sell it through your shop and not just a face to face sale, then it needs to get logged into your books (bought from yourself) and then logged out to your customer after the background check is complete.

Just because you're an FFL now doesn't disqualify you to buy guns on your own through private sales. The only thing you have to remember is anything that someone sends to your FFL (and has logged out of their books on your FFL number) must get logged into your books.

Posted: 9/18/2009 11:26:51 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
I think I understand what you're asking, so I'll try to help you out.

You (personally, not your LLC) decide to buy a gun from Joe Shmoe. You buy it and it is for all intents and purposes now part of your personal collection. If you decide to sell it through your shop and not just a face to face sale, then it needs to get logged into your books (bought from yourself) and then logged out to your customer after the background check is complete.

Just because you're an FFL now doesn't disqualify you to buy guns on your own through private sales. The only thing you have to remember is anything that someone sends to your FFL (and has logged out of their books on your FFL number) must get logged into your books.

That makes sense, so if you buy them for your personal collection from a private party, then you don't have to log them into your bound book?

Also, if they're already in your books, can't you just fill out a 4473 and transfer it to yourself? Why would you need to have an associate fill it out if you're receiving the weapon?

Lastly, do all the guns in the book need to be kept on premises of your FFL? I've heard of people storing them in separate facilities. I have a business, could I store some of them at home? I would keep a log with all of my personal firearms also.

Posted: 9/20/2009 5:53:31 PM EDT

[#12]

The only advice I give on this forum, is to ALWAYS COVER YOURSELF FIRST. (CYA)

Don't put yourself in a situation that could possibly risk your business, profits, RIGHTS or freedom because you want to make a quick buck, or you want to help a buddy out.
Even if you keep a separate bound book for your personal collection, remember that you are in this business to make a profit, and to keep yourself LEGAL at all times. Don't ever let anyone convince you to do a personal transaction (FTF) on an item that is in your A&D book, it isn't worth the few bucks you might potentially make.
All of that aside, I log ALL incoming weapons into my A&D book regardless of if I want them for my personal collection. If I REALLY want them, then I do a 4473 on myself, but I don't sell my personal weapons anyway.

If you find that you buy and sell alot of items for your personal collection, then you might as well leave them on the A&D book so you don't have to worry about the FTF problem in the future. Cover yourself and do a 4473 on all buyers, and if they don't want to do a 4473, then move on to the next buyer. There is ALWAYS a legal, willing buyer. Don't let a customer convince you that they have the cash now, or whatever they offer is worth it, you doing a favor for them could potentially lead to problems for you.

Again, just make sure you cover your bases, and make sure you are legal at all times.

Enhance your personal collection all you want, but remember that you are in the business of selling weapons legally, and it really isn't hard to stay that way.

Posted: 9/20/2009 5:59:09 PM EDT

[#13]

Yes, you can store weapons "off site" but make sure you indicate that in your bound book, the location of storage.

As for your FTF, and Private Party Question.... You have an FFL, that grants you the ability to buy and sell weapons and to make sure your buyers are LEGAL. Trust me, and log your weapons into your bound book, and try to shy away from ANY FTF sale as an FFL Dealer. You will let customers know that you run a tight ship, and discourage anyone from asking you to bend or break the law. (This is my personal advice to you)

Posted: 9/21/2009 8:28:31 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Yes, you can store weapons "off site" but make sure you indicate that in your bound book, the location of storage.

As for your FTF, and Private Party Question.... You have an FFL, that grants you the ability to buy and sell weapons and to make sure your buyers are LEGAL. Trust me, and log your weapons into your bound book, and try to shy away from ANY FTF sale as an FFL Dealer. You will let customers know that you run a tight ship, and discourage anyone from asking you to bend or break the law. (This is my personal advice to you)

I spoke with an industry specialist at the ATF and they told me since I have my FFL under a company, I do not need to log guns I buy in a FTF sales into the bound book. If I sell any guns, they have to be transferred in from me and then logged out to the licensed dealer or individual that they are transferred to.

If I want to transfer guns to myself, I need to have a 4473 executed. I do NOT need to have an associate fill it out, I can fill it out myself, there's no legal requirement to have somebody else fill out for you if you are taking possession per the ATF.

Anybody know where I should write the location of any gun that I don't have on premises in my bound book?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Buying guns as an FFL

Armory » FFL Discussions

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us