I am wondering if people who have had feeding problems with their MSAR Stg556s - or really, any problems- could detail their issues and if they sent them for warranty work,
Did MSAR share what had actually been not right, and what they did to fix it.? It seems like a list of problems and fixes would come in handy, now that MSAR is gone....
Reaquired this one that seems to like steel cased, but brass not so much. Winter project..
here's a pic.....thanks to my boy......

I have an early STG556 and it's been 100% reliable.  The optic is clear and holds zero, the rifle eats everything, fit and finish are above average.

I broke an extractor due to using a bad AUG mag. Replaced the extractor and got a Ratworx hybrid bolt. No problems since.

I don’t think the stg 556s had as many issues as the e4s. I had one that ran well and was fun. I do remember that some had issues where MSAR had to do a horrifically ugly grind job on parts of the receiver to get some guns to run right. Besides that big issues I recall were the integrated optics had a high failure rate to the point MSAR gave up on them and stopped offering that as an option or replacing them if they failed. Their awful ar15 pattern mags that just didn’t work (not applicable to the stg556 variants that used aug pattern mags) that they sold knowing they didn’t work then pulled shit claiming they would exchange them for pmags then did their damdest to not actually do that, oh and the e4 models mag catch failing and locking magazines in place which they did a voluntary recall on.

At this point if one has a issue from the factory and not just a broken part where a replacement can be found easily (which is probably an increasingly small list of parts given most of it was proprietary and not Steyer compatible) it’s probably a better idea to dump the thing then chase good money after bad.

I've reaquired one I had but never fired, the friend who got it said he couldn't get brass cases to even chamber by dropping the charging handle. He could push a round in with his finger , drop the bolt and it would fire, then not close all the way on the next round. But it ran like a striped ass ape with steel cased ammo. I'm looking at it as a winter project/ challenge to get it to run with brass cased ammo.  But, if it runs well with steel cased stuff, well, at least thats cheaper, ya?

I have one and my brother in law has one. No problems with either one.

Sven, thanks. Have you heard of one that flat refused to shoot brass, but ran well with steel cased ammo?

The original E4 stocks had the helicoil issue but the later stocks didn't.  One of the things that they did when they disappeared for two years was redesign the stock so that rather than embedded coils they used a steel insert that was essentially a backing plate with bushings that extended into the stock in place of the helicoils.  This made the connection much stronger and also eliminated the issue of the coils being stripped from the stock.  As a downside, once they assembled the two stock halves they called it a day and claimed it was "finished" and that "all" of the customers liked the annoying raised seam where the halves joined.  Every other AUG and MSAR generation stock had those raised seams ground off.

And as someone who had a rather, um, personal involvement with the AR mags I'll comment thusly:  Unless you know the vintage, you'd be better off either burning your money or buying some crappy Promags.  If you know the production is from right before MSAR started their death gasps and died for good, then *those* mags are good to go.  I have...quite a few...and all of them are rock solid.

MSAR, IMO, had three life cycle phases: The era when they were sincere which lasted until ~November/December 2010, the era when the owners milked it for every penny they could squeeze from ~January 2011 through when they ran and hid, claiming that they were going to declare bankruptcy to get angry customers off their backs, and their their attempted resurrection about 2013 or so and final death shortly thereafter.  The first era guns are generally the best, the second era guns are, as Sven points out, cobbled together from whatever they could get their hands on from whoever was still willing to extend them credit terms, and the last era - from what I've seen - were generally decent guns but nothing really exceptional except the stock.  Steyr should have simply bought them out and used the stock for it's "NATO" version as it really is a superior design...and it fits the AUG like a glove.

MSAR could have been a great company and owned the bullpup market but the greed and absolute shortsightedness of the owners coupled with a CS department that (and this is just my personal opinion with seven years downrange reflection) bought off customers with boxes of goodies to calm the waters.  IMO, that enabled the owners/management to keep on keeping on without ever really solving issues.  Was the CS department operating "under orders" or was it just their attempt to limit bad press?  I dunno.  I do know that I use my experience with MSAR as "a clue" when dealing with other companies; when they ply you with product as a "workaround" because what you actually spent money on isn't working, and then the company offers "solutions" that are really too good to be true, then it's time to walk away and sever contact.

do you have an opinion on the pmag aug mags for MSAR?

I wish there was a way to ID from my E4 serial number, when it was made and what may be a potential deficiency from that timeframe, that I can try to remedy prior to an issue poping up.

It sucks for those that got them back in the day, but there’s really no excuse for those that bought them recently. Especially with a fantastic alternative readily available, which it’s based on in the first place.

well, and twice the money......

I have an MSAR with both stocks(STG & AR; STG has the square bolt)and both run great. The original owner got 3000 + out of it.

My only issue has been extractors but the Rats have been good at keeping those available.

I bought it just after Pete released the CQC models and I wanted to make sure I liked the platform.

It doesn't get out much though.

Worth every penny for Steyr. Buying an msar in today’s day and age unless it’s sup $900 is a mistake IMO. Stick to Steyr made AUGs

Like telling a VW kinda guy to stick to BMW......sometimes
you have to make allowances ....  
I have about a grand in a late ( NATO serial number, caliber marked 223/6.8) tan stg , box and papers, with 8 30s one 42 rd mag, single point sling setup, and a lucid hd7 red dot. I don't feel like I got hurt, and like I said, it's my winter project to see if I can get it running with brass cases ammo, cause it already runs fine with steel for some reason.
btw, I really wish the photo system here could just accept pics from my device........

Sven, just got it back, previous owner ( a friend) was first person to fire it. He said he'd drop the bolt on a brass round and it wouldn't chamber all the way, or occasionally push the bullet back in the case, with brass, but ran great with steel. It's favourite evidently is the zinc plated steel.
Tried with all eight 30 rd mags, and the 42.
Unfortunately, nearest range is 30 miles away...the one ten minutes away burned down last year. I'm full time sitter for an autistic 28 year old, so it takes planning to arrange the time to go to the range.....
Oh, and, your opinion on pmag aug mags? In the stg, anyway......

This is the same with my rifle. I sent mine to Ratworx (IIRC) and had it upgraded to take AR mags. I love the rifle and have a nice stash of parts - so I’m good.

Damn! ?? This is turning into a testimonial post.....
After all your reports of good to go rifles, I'm starting to wonder if I just getting visits from Murphy every once in a while.........
Ain't nobody can report, mine did this, I sent it in, it came back fixed and they said they did.........?

Has anyone tried the pmags?

There are a few way to tell but I can't remember off the top of my head.

One way was on how the seam was formed in the stock.

I used that to know that mine was a late model that was good.
There were two or three other things but I can't remember.
You might start another thread to ask.

As for reliability, mine has never seen brass cased ammo and has been 100% except that one time I used MSAR mags.

Dubagel, can you elucidate? Bad mag broke extractor?

Kfeltenberger, can you amplify on how greed and shortsightedness scuttled MSAR? In what ways? What did they do as opposed to what you think they should have done?

My stg556 factory optic lost zero & the ability to adjust crosshair.  No ability to repair or replace optic - “warranty” solution was to offer top rail... already had the rail as my rifle was the railed model & I bought the $$ optic.
Bolt was deforming/peening the trunion - “warranty” solution to that was also unacceptable.
This was all while they were still in officially in business & before their problems/move/restructuring/bankruptcy/flight.

I was at the range shooting, with my factory Msar mags then decided I would try out some new factory US made Steyr AUG mags I got for like $5 each. Basically they were off spec., the trajectory of the feed lips. I have “dummy” rounds made up so I can check stuff... it was readily apparent looking into the ejection port and moving the bolt carrier slowly forward. I put in the factory Msar mag, bullet trajectory was correct and loaded. The AUG mags were pointing the bullet “nose down” as the bolt carrier moved forward loading a round. The bullet would slam into the base at the bottom of the feed ramp causing the bullet back into the casing or double feeding. Broke the extractor claw the entire length and slightly. Almost like it had been ground down, you could see the fracture with a good light and magnifying glass. I didn’t even notice it till I took it out and compared it to a photo online. I did wonder about the weak mag spring thing allowing the round to sink and thought about swapping them out with a stronger AR mag spring.  But since the $25 total expenditure for 5 AUG mags was not a big deal, I put them back in the closet and decided not to play with them to work. Luckily, I got a new extractor and it works fine and put that bolt away as a spare, and got a Ratworx hybrid bolt that uses ar15 parts and use it instead. The rifle has been entirely trouble free except for that, and shoots great. Lately I’ve been thinking about the AUGa3m1 16” barrel with the stg.77 skinny scope and parting out the Msar which could probably cover most of it.... It just seems wrong tearing apart a perfectly good gun but getting parts are a problem. The AUG wasn’t an option years ago when I got the Msar.

Do you have opinion on the pmags?

The owner bought transferable mgs and sports cars while apparently not paying suppliers or upgrading equipment to raise QC. I recall a employee saying they polished bores with a hand drill and no fixture or something along those lines for instance.  There were a crapload of transferable mgs sold by them when it all finally started falling apart if I recall correctly.

Oh they also loved doing limited edition runs like they did in the knife world instead of diversifying their product line while advertising new vapor ware. Oooh this ones all green and has a Austrian flower on the side and a knife and case that will be an extra grand please. The one that comes to mind most was the PCC that took glock mags. It was hyped to the point places were doing pre orders then years latter it came out that the thing never progressed past a 3D printed mock up that MSAR was taking around to drum up hype. Another example the promised caliber conversions. Those only became available when they started selling everything they had and the low numbers sold points to them probably never getting past the testing phase.

All of this was a long time ago so I could be remembering wrong.

Machine guns and cars....what a fuck.
Are these the same people involved in microtech knives?

Yes. Hence why the special editions usually had a micro tech knife included.

A friend has one of their knives- which is very nice- and had just about convinced me to get
one.......not now.

That's pretty much how I remember it.  Another thing they hyped was the "Archangel", a subcompact 9mm pistol that (to me from the few pics I saw) looked smaller than Shield/G-43/LC9s.

Beyond that, a lot of promises were made that were kept in name only.  Conversion kits were promised for 6.8SPC, 7.62x39mm, and 5.45x39mm, and while complete guns were released, only a handful (if that) of the kits were released, and many of them had function issues.

MSAR was positioned to *own* the bullpup market but they got greedy and instead following basic long term growth practices, management acted like a bunch of hood rats who just sold a couple kilos of coke.  I'm surprised that we never heard of a cheetah with a diamond encrusted collar being involved somewhere along the line.

When they produced a rifle that worked, it ran like a sewing machine.  Then they siphoned off cash and didn't think any further ahead than the next sale, and it went to hell in a handbasket.  With what they announced and teased, had they followed through I think they'd still be around and a major player in the bullpup market.

Agreed. Their success was what got Steyr to get over their 94 ban financial loss fears and jump back into the US market whole heartedly I think. Plus if that PCC had actually come out with good QC it would have printed money.

Steyr pretty much stopped bringing in stuff after the 1989awb. Up till then, they only needed to bring in semiauto guns.  They had a few “stragglers” after that. Like the USR, a “sporting rifle” to get around the 922R compliance, which wasn’t popular because Americans don’t like stupid looking politician designed guns. We like the real deal!!!  They really screwed the US gun owners, along with HK, with zero support or parts for 20+ years. If it wasn’t for Pete Athens, a great guy thankfully, AUG owners would of had no parts and expensive green paperweights. It’s too bad MSAR decided to run their business like the Cocaine Cowboys in Miami because they had a good concept/product. If I had a choice at the time I would have bought a 16 inch, slick scope AUG like I had in the 80’s for like an hour (don’t ask... stupid move), instead of the MSAR. But growing up in the 80’s and remembering the prices I paid then, LOL, I wasn’t going to pay that kind of money for a pre-ban. I got an MSAR and except for a broken extractor it’s been good. If I decided to sell it parted out, I could easily get my money out of it towards an actual AUG, in the actual configuration I want... not all that rail on the scope stuff, which actual parts are available for. Unlike my FN FNC. Just give me the plain scope “donut of death” AUG from Die Hard with a 16” barrel or the black US Customs AUG. LOL

You say, when they produced a rifle that worked it ran like a sewing machine.......can you give a horseback guess of an estimate of the percentage that fit that description?

Any of the STG series should be good to go, and most of the AR mag compatible guns should likewise be good...if you can ascertain when the gun was purchased originally, that would be even better to know...if it was produced before the end of 2010, preferably before October/November, is better.  After that point, it really is hit or miss.  If you find one for sale at a good price (sub $1000, preferably sub $950), buy it.  If nothing else, the parts are worth more than the gun is; you can sell the receiver, bolt carrier group, barrel, and stock/hammer pack and make back your investment.

No way to tell, but as I said, it appears to be gen 4(?), Nato-00XX sn, marked caliber 223/6.8
What era would that be placed in ?

That would put it squarely in the "questionable, it's a crap-shoot" era.  The tell is the 6.8 marking on the receiver as they didn't make those until they were facing vendor supply cut-offs due to payment issues.

rut row...........but like I said, it evidently runs like a top with steel cased ammo, which is cheaper anyway, so what the heck. Still, I'm gonna see if we can get it squared away with brass too....

I have one of these problem child E4s. I love the thing to death but this annoys the crap out of me.
It functioned perfect with brass cased prior to the mag catch recall. After it got back, you could easily remove the magazine but it no longer functions properly with brass cased ammo.
To me this means it is an issue with that batch of metal magazine catches or that lot of E4 stocks. MSAR didn't want to RMA again as that was when they were moving, and then Ratworks agreed to fix it after the dust settled but was going to charge to do it, so it is what it is.

The issue appears to be the bottom two lugs of the bolt drag on the next round in the magazine, causing the bolt to lose enough forward momentum that it will not fully chamber. In the case of mine it is pretty severe and leaves large gouges in the brass cases and even trimmed the feed lips a little on a couple Mags. Not to mention the occasional smashed case when it partial chambers a round and then drags the next round from the magazine with it, smashing it between the bolt face and feed ramp. The steel case ammo seems to be hard enough the bolt can't dig in and thus function with out any issues, lacquer coated is hit or miss depending on how thick the lacquer is on the case.

Dummy rounds with gouging


I was playing around with producing a new shorter magazine latch to help remedy the situation but the project kind of sidelined due to an onslaught of over time at work.

I've been told that steel cases are ever so slightly smaller dimensionally because of the characteristics of steel Vs brass, don't know if true, but I wonder if that could make a difference. And I think if it turns out I can only use steel, I need to get one of the Rat Worx hybrid bolts. Who knows, maybe that would cause it to work with brass....stranger things have happened, ya?

kfeltenberger, would an MSAR with the forward assist be one of the "good guns"?

Mine has the forward assist and the only issue has been extractor failure. I think I bought one of the AR bolts for it though.

Thanks

Forward assist means it’s the first generation of guns they made. I don’t think they did those too long but it won’t have the stuck mag catch problem at least since those were the E4s made years latter. I also don’t think they were playing with changing with surface treatments and nitriding on bolts and things at that time which lead to cracked bolts from bad heat treat. If it has the AUG style optic those were always fragile to the point they stopped even offering it as an option or replacing broken ones years before they closed down. Even if it’s from a time when they didn’t have major problems doesn’t mean the gun is good though. MSAR used to wow people by giving them lots of swag when guns came in for repair which probably lowered the amount of complaints online quite a bit. Their QC was always bad in my opinion it just got worse over time and then CS went downhill too, the free goodies to engender good will after a repair disappeared and their name went to shit. Well that and all the other crap they were doing.

I had one.

Finally rid myself of it when she wouldn't fire even after replacing the broken firing pin.

Now looking at a real aug which I should've done in the first place.

Prior to MSAR, if tou wanted an AUG. Your only choices were a used AUG A1 or a USR. Parts were hard to find and so were magazines.

Both MSAR and TPD introduced their versions at the '07 Shot Show. Out of the two, which one lasted longer in the market? Hell, MSAR showed that the bullpup is a viable option and can sell. They got Steyr to get back into the US market.

Steyr wasn't even in the US Market when MSAR came out. Steyr left the market ten years before MSAR. The last Steyr released product was the USR and they only brought in 3,000 in 1997. That was it. With the Import bans put in place in 1989 and 1998, and the AWB. Steyr said the US Market was dead.

The AUG was in a price range of $3,000-$4,000 for a used rifle.

Microtech came out with their own design. It had nothing to do with licensing. It was that they had to make their own tooling, molds, parts, etc.... Steyr was not in the game and wasn't even thinking of joining the game.

Again, remember that the TPD AXR and the Microtech STG-556 came out in 2007 at SHOT Show. TPD went with Steyr parts and that bit them in the ass since parts were pricey and they weren't making everything in house. MSAR did make everything.

At the time, the MSAR made sense. A US Made AUG for the US Market when Steyr was stuck in Austria and didn't give a rats ass. The Success of MSAR is what made Steyr jump back into the US Market. And even then that was sloppy with Saber Defense.

Folks sometimes mention why didn't MSAR partner with Steyr. Well, DSA and JDL didn't need rights from FN or HK to build their respective clones. Todd Bailey built HK clones for a number of years, still does, and never needed permission from HK to do so. DSA bought their tooling from Austria and JDL bought theirs from Portugal. Sadly, MSAR couldn't surplus buy tooling.

Steyr had LE reps in the US Market just like Colt, HK, and FN did. But that didn't mean that they were looking at reentering the US civilian rifle market. The HK SL8 came in during the AWB and that was because it had to abide by the stupid ban and import restrictions too.

The only thing Steyr had in the civilian market was their M series of pistols at the time but it was a flop. Yes the AUG had a contract too. Steyr had a contract with US Customs. It wasn't a large contract. A small number were purchased for the Blue Lightning Task Force.



I have memory of that because my father worked very closely with their task force in Miami under HIDTA and NNBIS. I remember even shooting a Custom's AUG around '94-'95 as a kid.

Steyr considered the US market dead and didn't want to jump back in it. It really wasn't until MSAR got the ball rolling with their sales that Steyr looked at entering the US Market. They even had to have their receivers made in the USA by Saber Defense and later Voltr.





Steyr had not been very supportive of the US Market. Who was was actually HK. They brought in their G3 and HK 33 into the US Market long before Steyr brough the AUG. FN was also another player with thier FN marked FAL and FNC. But the biggest of the Euro companies was actually HK then. Steyr really didn't care much.

As for why MSAR didn't do a complete one to one clone. I've heard that they approached Steyr and Steyr said no. They wanted to make a US AUG and Steyr didn't want to supply shit. Now strangely, TPD USA made their AXR and it was compatible with Steyr... but there was a catch. TPD had to get their parts through a 3rd party. Steyr didn't bless them either. TPD was also a very small shop run operation. With the price of Steyr parts and labor. TPD closed shop.

MSAR went at it alone and if Marfione didn't run it the way they did. They'd still be doing well. MSAR failed not because of MSAR but because of Marfione.

I have two MSAR rifles.  They have zero Malfunctions!  I think a few rifles had major problems but most rifles ran 100%.  My buddy did have one that broke an extractor but after that one issue it ran fine... And that batch had a manufacturing issue with the extractors.  It was the second run I think.