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Posted: 8/1/2018 3:14:01 PM EDT
[#1]
Errr...I'm from the NW, and even lived in Seattle....I've never heard of this event....they don't even have a website??
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Posted: 8/1/2018 4:14:57 PM EDT
[#2]
In b4 .308 blowing up in your face.
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Posted: 8/1/2018 8:09:51 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In b4 .308 blowing up in your face. |
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Posted: 8/1/2018 8:31:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Errr...I'm from the NW, and even lived in Seattle....I've never heard of this event....they don't even have a website?? |
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Posted: 8/2/2018 1:04:39 AM EDT
[#5]
If it had on-the-fly switchable case ejection, a la Brretta ARX, I would fo.
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Posted: 8/2/2018 5:18:12 AM EDT
[#6]
TRIGFERCON was held last week in Bellevue at the Mayden Bauer center. I have been to the one in the past that was held at the Tacoma Convention Center. Rainier Arms is the main sponsor/host of the event I believe and in the past you would obtain the tickets from their website.
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Posted: 8/2/2018 11:38:20 AM EDT
[#7]
If it can hold a consistent 1.5 MOA it’ll be huge. It isn’t a precision rifle, but that drives a large segment of the non-.mil market. Look how much shit the X95 got for fliers.
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Posted: 8/2/2018 1:38:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Cant wait saving pennies for this bad boy..
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Posted: 8/2/2018 1:53:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Are they going to bring out a shorter barreled version with a pistol brace? I kid, but I've been jonesing ever since I saw the IWI Galil Ace pistol in 7.62 NATO. |
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Posted: 8/2/2018 2:31:19 PM EDT
[#10]
It's a bullpup, how on Earth would they be able to put a brace on it?
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Posted: 8/2/2018 9:06:48 PM EDT
[#11]
I'm hoping T7 will be 1-1.5 MOA. After giving up on the MostDisappointingRifle I've been watching T7 ever since and cannot wait for some real reviews on it.
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Posted: 8/3/2018 5:28:21 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it had on-the-fly switchable case ejection, a la Brretta ARX, I would fo. |
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Posted: 8/3/2018 4:47:18 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 8/5/2018 11:39:23 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm hoping T7 will be 1-1.5 MOA. After giving up on the MostDisappointingRifle I've been watching T7 ever since and cannot wait for some real reviews on it. |
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Posted: 8/10/2018 9:27:20 AM EDT
[#15]
Just out of curiosity, what drives such a desire for a 7.62 bullpup?
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Posted: 8/10/2018 9:50:41 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just out of curiosity, what drives such a desire for a 7.62 bullpup? 50cal rifles can get pretty long, Steyr HS is great imo |
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Posted: 8/10/2018 3:17:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just out of curiosity, what drives such a desire for a 7.62 bullpup? |
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Posted: 8/11/2018 4:08:00 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not quite that fast, but there's a video on youtube where an IWI rep switches the ejection. Even taking his time, going super slow, and explaining every little thing he's doing, it takes a couple of minutes. If you knew the procedure and weren't explaining it out loud, i'd bet you'd be looking at a minute or less. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If it had on-the-fly switchable case ejection, a la Brretta ARX, I would fo. |
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Posted: 8/11/2018 7:59:43 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No shit, give us PNW cats more details about this. |
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Posted: 8/12/2018 12:08:41 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m attracted to anything that let’s me carry more firepower in less package. 556 bullpups make a bit more sense because you likely won t want a bipod and really don't need much in the way of optics that weight much. |
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Posted: 8/14/2018 12:48:03 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Define less package. The 308 bullpups currently available are shorter than a standard rifle but also way heavier. Sure, the weight is towards the rear, and for plinking it helps, but when you have to carry it a while or do a day or two of on the move shooting that weight adds up. For the cost of a 308 bullpup you can build a 5.5 lb 308 ar pretty easily. Once you tack on optics it adds up. 556 bullpups make a bit more sense because you likely won t want a bipod and really don't need much in the way of optics that weight much. That’s tough to do with Ar15 |
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Posted: 8/14/2018 1:10:18 AM EDT
[#22]
Found some people talking about their lightweight builds and being able to push below 5 pounds. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/building-the-lightest-ar10-ever.822282
I'm not too enthralled by super lightweight builds, especially when it means you can't put as many rounds through at any given time due to accuracy opening up on pencil thin barrels. I've handled some sub-5 pound AR-15s (Robar's Polymar-15Ti, and there other offerings), and I still don't care for the balance compared to a bullpup. I know for me personally, I'm gonna get a semi-auto .308 and use it more like a battle rifle than a DMR or precision rifle, and the Kel-Tec RFB and the K&M M17S, felt far better in the shoulder than the lighter weight .308 ARs I've handled. Most of my practical firearm experience is based around bullpups, so they feel more natural. It's a bias, but one that I have no issue with. |
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Posted: 8/14/2018 1:36:11 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Links to 5.5lb Ar308/ar10? That’s tough to do with Ar15 If these 308 bullpups were $1k it would be tough to justify an ar platform because to build one at that cost will be nearly as heavy. Once you start getting closer to the $2k mark, it pretty much opens the door on any parts you want so not only can you get it very light but also very adjustable. The ar platform also benefits from easy modularity and easy replacement of parts if something breaks. I've used 3 of the 4 newest 308 bullpups and while the balance is better, the weight of all of them REALLY adds up. Particularly once you put on optics. Again if they were $1k it would be different but at their cost you can cut nearly 3 lbs off! |
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Posted: 8/14/2018 1:37:45 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Links to 5.5lb Ar308/ar10? That’s tough to do with Ar15 |
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Posted: 8/14/2018 1:41:28 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Found some people talking about their lightweight builds and being able to push below 5 pounds. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/building-the-lightest-ar10-ever.822282 I'm not too enthralled by super lightweight builds, especially when it means you can't put as many rounds through at any given time due to accuracy opening up on pencil thin barrels. I've handled some sub-5 pound AR-15s (Robar's Polymar-15Ti, and there other offerings), and I still don't care for the balance compared to a bullpup. Pencil barrels aren't a problem on average shooting. For military purposes and sustained high volume shooting Sure, it's not ideal. So far the bullpups haven't shown to be laser accurate anyway and I don't mag dump in 308, however if you use a heavier barrel you are talking adding half a pound. So 6lb instead of 5.5. Meh. |
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Posted: 8/14/2018 2:00:51 AM EDT
[#26]
In the end, some of us just want a .308 bullpup, and not just another AR-10. Subjectively, an AR-10 is better due to the aftermarket options, but bullpups are slowly getting more attention, and we'll start seeing people push designs that lighten up our options in the bullpup realm that'll eventually make that difference moot.
Hell, even if we get a 6 pound .308 bullpup, it'll be pretty fantastic with a bullpup's balance compared to a 4.5 lb AR-10. |
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Posted: 8/14/2018 2:48:57 AM EDT
[#27]
Why can't bullpup makers use a normal trigger guard?
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Posted: 8/14/2018 3:06:46 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why can't bullpup makers use a normal trigger guard? If I remember correctly and zooming in on the pic of the tav7 it has the correct lines to make me think I’m right it uses the same grip assembly as the x95 so you could unbolt it and slap on a standard style grip / trigger guard on instead of the cutlass whole hand style if you wanted. |
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Posted: 8/14/2018 10:34:01 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the end, some of us just want a .308 bullpup, and not just another AR-10. Subjectively, an AR-10 is better due to the aftermarket options, but bullpups are slowly getting more attention, and we'll start seeing people push designs that lighten up our options in the bullpup realm that'll eventually make that difference moot. Hell, even if we get a 6 pound .308 bullpup, it'll be pretty fantastic with a bullpup's balance compared to a 4.5 lb AR-10. The problem I see is to really get the weight down you might need a whole new design. The lack of modularity on most of the bullpup designs makes it rather difficult to get the kind of weight shavings needed. Keep in mind the weight of a 308 matters more than a 556 because add in a likely optic and a full 308 mag and now you are talking really heavy. At least with a 556 the mag isn't too bad and they get run with red dots a lot. |
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Posted: 8/14/2018 5:48:30 PM EDT
[#30]
I just confirmed that IWI US will be out at Bullpup Shoot 2018 and have a Tavor 7 with them for demo shooting- free to come to the event, open to the public, and you only have to pay the cost of ammo to shoot the demo guns! www.bullpupshoot.com
Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 8/14/2018 7:04:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Found some people talking about their lightweight builds and being able to push below 5 pounds. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/building-the-lightest-ar10-ever.822282 I'm not too enthralled by super lightweight builds, especially when it means you can't put as many rounds through at any given time due to accuracy opening up on pencil thin barrels. I've handled some sub-5 pound AR-15s (Robar's Polymar-15Ti, and there other offerings), and I still don't care for the balance compared to a bullpup. |
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Posted: 8/15/2018 12:55:23 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Regarding "pencil" barrels, I suggest taking a look at InRange's WWSD series and the tests they ran on the Faxon pencil barrels. IIRC, they didn't see any real changes using *those* barrels as compared to contemporary heavier barrels. |
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Posted: 8/15/2018 1:55:09 AM EDT
[#33]
I've seen those videos, I've just had pencil barrels open up pretty quickly from 1.5 MOA to pushing over 4 MOA. I've no doubt pencil barrels can retain their accuracy, just prior experience makes me hesitant to trust 'em. A personal bias undoubtedly.
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Posted: 8/15/2018 8:37:53 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's really always been the case with pencil barrels in semi autos. For people using full auto there's a real difference but the military not using pencil barrels (For obvious reasons) have made civilians think they are somehow bad for normal use. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Regarding "pencil" barrels, I suggest taking a look at InRange's WWSD series and the tests they ran on the Faxon pencil barrels. IIRC, they didn't see any real changes using *those* barrels as compared to contemporary heavier barrels. |
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Posted: 8/16/2018 12:09:50 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've seen those videos, I've just had pencil barrels open up pretty quickly from 1.5 MOA to pushing over 4 MOA. I've no doubt pencil barrels can retain their accuracy, just prior experience makes me hesitant to trust 'em. A personal bias undoubtedly. |
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Posted: 8/26/2018 2:29:58 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Define less package. The 308 bullpups currently available are shorter than a standard rifle but also way heavier. Sure, the weight is towards the rear, and for plinking it helps, but when you have to carry it a while or do a day or two of on the move shooting that weight adds up. For the cost of a 308 bullpup you can build a 5.5 lb 308 ar pretty easily. Once you tack on optics it adds up. 556 bullpups make a bit more sense because you likely won t want a bipod and really don't need much in the way of optics that weight much. |
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Posted: 8/27/2018 8:34:45 PM EDT
[#37]
Here is a guide for a 4.5lbs AR10: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/building-the-lightest-ar10-ever.822282/
With a whole additional pound to play with, you can go nuts! Seriously though, it is easy to build lightweight AR10s now. |
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Posted: 8/28/2018 10:33:15 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Define less package. The 308 bullpups currently available are shorter than a standard rifle but also way heavier. Sure, the weight is towards the rear, and for plinking it helps, but when you have to carry it a while or do a day or two of on the move shooting that weight adds up. For the cost of a 308 bullpup you can build a 5.5 lb 308 ar pretty easily. Once you tack on optics it adds up. 556 bullpups make a bit more sense because you likely won t want a bipod and really don't need much in the way of optics that weight much. |
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Posted: 8/28/2018 3:30:10 PM EDT
[#39]
I don’t know why we are comparing the weight of boutique or custom assembled .308 AR’s to an off the shelf rifle geared towards the .mil/LE market. If it’s being compared, you may as well compare it to it’s competitors.
Any update on this rifle? Last I knew it was supposed to be out at the end of this month, which is now. |
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Posted: 8/28/2018 3:58:17 PM EDT
[#40]
I hope the accuracy reports are true. This would make an excellent hunting rifle for deep woods hunts.
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Posted: 8/31/2018 9:44:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don’t know why we are comparing the weight of boutique or custom assembled .308 AR’s to an off the shelf rifle geared towards the .mil/LE market. If it’s being compared, you may as well compare it to it’s competitors. Any update on this rifle? Last I knew it was supposed to be out at the end of this month, which is now. |
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Posted: 8/31/2018 11:31:00 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ummmm because they cost the same, shoot the same round and use the same mag. It just is way heavier and has a worse trigger. |
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Posted: 9/1/2018 12:29:27 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ummmm because they cost the same, shoot the same round and use the same mag. It just is way heavier and has a worse trigger. |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 12:29:20 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But they are still different rifles, and setting up any gun against an AR platform is a losing battle. Even the venerable AK platform is paled in comparison. When bullpups and bullpup parts are being put out to the same degree, then your complaints against them would be sensible. I've had quite a few bullpups. In thought and design they are pretty cool. It's a fun novelty having the decreased package for a while. A lot of them look neat too. But when you get into the weight, cost, trigger, parts availability, and mediocre accuracy I just don't really get it beyond the novelty aspect. I have no doubt they will improve and capitalism will get some nice upgrades going (like triggers already have). But most the bullpups just don t add up in a pros vs cons with other proven platforms. That doesn't mean I have a problem with people buying them or that they're all crap. At least half of being into firearms is the cool factor and buying what turns you on, nothing wrong with that at all. My whole interjection in this thread was just to see what people like about that them over what you can buy or build as an ar or ak. Different folks different strokes so I'm not being critical of anyone. I do find it odd to not compare them to other rifles though. At this point every new rifle should be compared to an ar and ak. At $1k I think the pros of a bullpup might push either of those. At around 2k though it's like comparing the bullpup to a super gucci ar with almost anything you want. I would guess we all, for the most part, want the most effective gun for our money, so comparing them makes a lot of sense. |
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Posted: 9/19/2018 3:53:07 PM EDT
[#45]
So what's the latest on the delivery date? The last I heard IWI's official delivery date was July but there has been a lot of speculation about delays.
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Posted: 9/19/2018 6:22:28 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what's the latest on the delivery date? The last I heard IWI's official delivery date was July but there has been a lot of speculation about delays. AllOutdoor.Com Article |
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Posted: 9/19/2018 6:57:55 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what's the latest on the delivery date? The last I heard IWI's official delivery date was July but there has been a lot of speculation about delays. It still blows though. |
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Posted: 9/19/2018 7:53:22 PM EDT
[#48]
Thanks, that's the same type of update I've seen. I'm good they seem to be on top of the quality issues before they go out the door.
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Posted: 10/9/2018 7:56:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://iwi.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/GAP51SB-Brace-Extended.png Are they going to bring out a shorter barreled version with a pistol brace? I kid, but I've been jonesing ever since I saw the IWI Galil Ace pistol in 7.62 NATO. |
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Posted: 10/25/2018 12:50:08 AM EDT
[#50]
That LoP looks to be long as hell. How would you mount a bipod?
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