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Posted: 8/9/2020 4:44:21 PM EDT
[#1]
not in my opinion.
the rounds should chamber, and eject ( live round) with the same ease as factory ammo. . |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 5:00:22 PM EDT
[#2]
ok I will compare a resized one with a factory one.I did the test and the resized case chambers with just a bit less force on the op rod than the loaded factory round. Both LC 16s.
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Posted: 8/9/2020 5:06:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Get a Dillion case gauge. It’s right 100% of the time. Also know the m1a will kill brass fairly quickly. You’ll need to check for head separation often on your fired cases.
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Posted: 8/9/2020 5:13:48 PM EDT
[#4]
I have the hornady comparator and zeroed it .005 less than a fired case.
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Posted: 8/9/2020 5:16:28 PM EDT
[#5]
M1-A's stretch brass longer than their actual headspace should allow. The case is being yanked out of the chamber while still under pressure.
I bump my shoulders on gas guns (all of them, AR-10's included) to SAAMI minimum -.001". I use gages (Mo DeFina's or Hornady's Lock-N-Load) and a PTG .308 go-gage. Military brass (Lake City/IMI) requires a two full grain reduction in powder charges. |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 5:19:27 PM EDT
[#6]
If it closes easy after the extractor snaps over the rim, and extracts easy, gtg.
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Posted: 8/9/2020 5:31:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get a Dillion case gauge. It's right 100% of the time. Also know the m1a will kill brass fairly quickly. You'll need to check for head separation often on your fired cases. |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 5:54:57 PM EDT
[#8]
or strip the bolt of its extractor and ejector. Hint- a .30-06 case works nicely in the chamber, close bolt on the case, flip gun upside down and tap out the extractor, assemble in reverse.
Try it in the chamber that way. Right bolt lug should be at rest on the right frame. That said a lot of Springields are resting on the roller because the receiver’s roller clearance cut is insufficient. Mine was. I dremmeled the clearance deep enough to clear the roller. Don’t do this unless you are prepared to recut your chamber to headspace. As the bolt rotates down it closes tighter headspace wise. you can put a double tape cap on the sized case to simulate headpace needed. Should be about two thousandths thickness a piece of tape. |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 6:08:31 PM EDT
[#9]
If the bolt does not close easily on a resized case, your sizing die is not properly set up.
You may need to strip the bolt to check this or just learn to do it without stripping the bolt. If 5 mils doesn't do it, try 6 mils, etc. Where is the case getting hung up, headspace or at the base (scuff marks)? Any chance you have machine gun brass with blown out cases? |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 6:11:25 PM EDT
[#10]
I have a case gauge for every round I load.. IMO, you need dillon case gauges.
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Posted: 8/9/2020 6:15:57 PM EDT
[#11]
I hear this bumping the shoulder back thing a lot. I take my Forster size die and set it for slight cam-over. I size my cases and then trim. Then I check with my Sheridan case gauge. These .308 cases fit in all the things.
If this bump shoulder thing isn't working out for you, and it seems like plenty of folks have issues with it, then just forget it and do some cam-over size die things with proper quality dies. |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 6:17:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get a Dillion case gauge. It's right 100% of the time. Also know the m1a will kill brass fairly quickly. You'll need to check for head separation often on your fired cases. |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 7:02:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Thanks for the suggestions,I will consider all of them.If you have any Varget loads for 150 SMKs Id like to hear them.
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Posted: 8/9/2020 7:57:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the suggestions,I will consider all of them.If you have any Varget loads for 150 SMKs Id like to hear them. You'll have to say what brass you are using before anyone can give you load suggestions. |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 9:00:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Not to hi jack the op's thread but i just started loading for a new M1A standard. 40.0 IMR 4064, 168 smk, lc 09 brass and win lr primers.
My question is. Is it normal for primers to flatten on a semi auto. Started at 38.5 and worked up to 40. All had flattened primers. Never had this issue in any of my bolt guns The federal gold medal match i shot looked identical |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 11:00:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You'll have to say what brass you are using before anyone can give you load suggestions. LC16 |
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Posted: 8/9/2020 11:10:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have the hornady comparator and zeroed it .005 less than a fired case. Push shoulder back .007 and see if that helps. Repeat until you get easy chambering and extraction. I have found that factory rounds are normally .010 shorter than the chamber. Remember they are made to fire in any chamber. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 12:18:01 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LC16 Weigh half a dozen empty unprimed cases to get an average weight. Some military brass can weigh over 180 grains empty and unprimed. Winchester brand commercial brass can weigh as little as 155 grains. Huge difference in internal case capacity. If your brass weighs180 grains 43.5 to 44 grains of Varget will be close to a maximum load in a bolt action. I would start around 42.0 +/- with 150 bullets and work up in .5 grain increments. Look for reliable function and the smallest groups on target. If you have a chronograph 2700 fps is a good working range for 150 grain bullets fired from a M1-A. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 12:24:45 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not to hi jack the op's thread but i just started loading for a new M1A standard. 40.0 IMR 4064, 168 smk, lc 09 brass and win lr primers. My question is. Is it normal for primers to flatten on a semi auto. Started at 38.5 and worked up to 40. All had flattened primers. Never had this issue in any of my bolt guns The federal gold medal match i shot looked identical IMR-4064 starts to flattens primers (Winchester STD. Large rifle) with 40.7 grain loads in Lake City brass using 168 grain SMK's in my M1-A's. Velocity around 2500 fps. I consider this a maximum load using these components. I believe it's something unique to this load combination. I don't see this when using IMR or H4895 at the same velocity. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 5:30:07 AM EDT
[#20]
FWIW- PMC .308 Win brass is good for 1 reload (2 firings total) then probably needs to be scrapped.
My M1A started getting case head separations on 2nd reload (3rd firing) of this brass. |
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Posted: 8/10/2020 10:59:05 AM EDT
[#21]
If you haven't stripped the bolt down, that chambering test is meaningless.
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Posted: 8/10/2020 11:46:10 AM EDT
[#22]
M M1-A's were really picky about having the brass all trimmed and deburred. I would trim to 2.0". Be careful with powder selection as fast powders have the wrong pressure curve.
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Posted: 8/13/2020 10:09:58 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not to hi jack the op's thread but i just started loading for a new M1A standard. 40.0 IMR 4064, 168 smk, lc 09 brass and win lr primers. My question is. Is it normal for primers to flatten on a semi auto. Started at 38.5 and worked up to 40. All had flattened primers. Never had this issue in any of my bolt guns The federal gold medal match i shot looked identical just tossing this out there....excess headspace will look similar with flat primers but may not have high pressure at all. In the M14 you have a spring loaded ejector that is pushing on the chambered round holding the shoulder to the chamber shoulder. All your excess headspace is between the case head and the bolt face. When fired the primer unseats due to pressure building and stops on the bolt face, then a microsecond later the pressure forces the case head back reseating the primer under pressure. This is where you get the mushrooming of the primer cup and that blanked out primer look. I shoot for 0.004” free headspace in my autoloading rifles. Not saying your gun isn’t over pressure but to look at it all before coming to a conculsion. |
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Posted: 9/27/2020 12:19:13 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Weigh half a dozen empty unprimed cases to get an average weight. Some military brass can weigh over 180 grains empty and unprimed. Winchester brand commercial brass can weigh as little as 155 grains. Huge difference in internal case capacity. If your brass weighs180 grains 43.5 to 44 grains of Varget will be close to a maximum load in a bolt action. I would start around 42.0 +/- with 150 bullets and work up in .5 grain increments. Look for reliable function and the smallest groups on target. If you have a chronograph 2700 fps is a good working range for 150 grain bullets fired from a M1-A. Average of ten cases was 176.49grains. I do not have a chrony. Please advise,thanks |
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Posted: 9/27/2020 1:17:35 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Average of ten cases was 176.49grains. I do not have a chrony. Please advise,thanks I would treat your brass the same as Lake City 7.62x51mm. NRA lists a maximum load of 41.5 grains with 168 grain bullets seated at 2.800". That was using the older Winchester primers with nickel plating. New (15 years old and newer) no longer have nickel plating and can't hold pressure as well as the originals. 40.5 grains of IMR-4895 40.0 grains of H4895 43.0 grains of WW-748 40.5 grains of AA-2460 39.0 grains if IMR-3031 Are all listed maximum powder charges with 168's. As normal reloading practice dictates at least a couple of grain reduction to start. I consider .4 to .5 grain increment increases prudent when watching for pressure signs and checking groups on target. I have found either 4895 to work great. They shoot small groups over a wide powder charge window and reliably run the gun. Modern powders like: 41.5 grains of VihtaVuori N150 40.5 grains of VihtaVuori N140 40.5 grains of Varget 41.0 grains if RE-15 41.0 grains of Norma 203B All work great with 168's in military brass as well. Again, start lower, work up. |
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Posted: 9/27/2020 2:52:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Im starting with 150SMKs and Varget. Thanks for the guidance.
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Posted: 9/27/2020 4:18:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would treat your brass the same as Lake City 7.62x51mm. NRA lists a maximum load of 41.5 grains with 168 grain bullets seated at 2.800". That was using the older Winchester primers with nickel plating. New (15 years old and newer) no longer have nickel plating and can't hold pressure as well as the originals. 40.5 grains of IMR-4895 40.0 grains of H4895 43.0 grains of WW-748 40.5 grains of AA-2460 39.0 grains if IMR-3031 Are all listed maximum powder charges with 168's. As normal reloading practice dictates at least a couple of grain reduction to start. I consider .4 to .5 grain increment increases prudent when watching for pressure signs and checking groups on target. I have found either 4895 to work great. They shoot small groups over a wide powder charge window and reliably run the gun. Modern powders like: 41.5 grains of VihtaVuori N150 40.5 grains of VihtaVuori N140 40.5 grains of Varget 41.0 grains if RE-15 41.0 grains of Norma 203B All work great with 168's in military brass as well. Again, start lower, work up. Hodgdon shows current start load for 168gr/IMR-4064 as 41.5gr and max as 43.9gr in Winchester cases with Federal 210M primers. I loaded 41.5gr IMR-4064 with 168gr bullets in LC Match cases and WLR primers for many years without issue, with both the older nickel plated primers and the current brass ones. |
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Posted: 9/28/2020 9:42:30 AM EDT
[#28]
LC cases need a little more sizing in my 308's some may have been fired in machine guns which will expand case head a mite
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Posted: 9/30/2020 8:03:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Would adding a ported gas plug help minimize brass beating?
It helped In my AR308. Could it also help on the m1a platform? |
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Posted: 9/30/2020 8:39:42 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 10/3/2020 12:05:10 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryThanks for that link |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 8:52:37 AM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 10/23/2020 2:40:14 PM EDT
[#33]
had good results from 41.0 Varget with LC18s and 150SMKs.About a 3" group at 200 with irons. How much should I add for testing the next load? Pretty happy with that but maybe I can get better.
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Posted: 10/29/2020 7:44:37 PM EDT
[#34]
Went ahead and added a half of a grain and shot a nice 10 shot group 100-9X. 200 yard SR-C prone. I think the set up will work.
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Posted: 10/29/2020 8:55:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Try some TAC if you'd like. I get excellent results with minimal effort.
IME for mixed brass, 43.5gr and a 150gr FMJ is tops. That's safe (but hot) for me in the heavy cases, warm in LC, and mild in RP. 43.2gr for 155gr, 41gr for 165/168gr. Recent production WIN primers (blue box), not the new red/grey/black. The majority of my cases are LC, IMI, MEN, and CBC. CBC and GFL (fiocchi) are much heavier in .308 and .223. R-P are much lighter. Iirc my small amount of WIN cases aren't much lighter than the first 3 military cases. They all shoot excellently when cherry picked for same-case groups, and as mixed still do better than any M80 I've shot. They cycle a gas gun (factory built, sample of 1) just fine. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 9:56:52 PM EDT
[#36]
Generally good advice above. Especially for an M1A, don't be afraid to size your brass! Factory ammo, commercial or military, is much shorter than minimum headspace. See the link below for an actual comparison. If, for instance my M1A has headspace of 1.631" (and relatively few are that short), I'm going to size my brass to somewhere around 1.627-1.628" headspace measurement. This will insure that it chambers easily. If my chamber runs 1.634" headspace measurement (which is more common), I'm probably still going to size my brass to 1.628". It will work just fine, trust me! In a gas gun, you don't want to try just bumping the shoulder back .001-.002", or you WILL have trouble.
This was done several years ago, when milsurp 7.62 NATO ammo was much more prevalent than it is now. https://www.falfiles.com/threads/ammunition-headspace-comparison.223464/#post-3025389 |
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