I've been posting a lot lately but my brain is a sponge right now and you guys always provide the knowledge. I wanna talk about all the different things folks do when reloading for maximum precision accuracy. What I'm gonna do is list some things I've seen folks do and ask for your input on the topic. What I would like is some sort of proof/data that a certain step has made a measurable difference in accuracy. Right now I'm chasing the accuracy goal with my GAP-10 but I will be having a precision bolt gun built soon. Here goes...

- Turning case necks

- Using bench rest primers VS standard primers

- Using competition seating dies over standard dies

- Crimping and not crimping

- Loading to be just off the lands or kissing the lands

- Uniforming primer pockets

- Deburring flash holes

- Bumping shoulders VS resizing to factory specs

- Gauging run-out/concentricity

Please provide input on any or all of these steps and if you've personally observed increases in accuracy by performing them. If you would like to add something I didn't list, feel free to do so.

Grab a copy of The Benchrest Shooting Primer. Most every question will be answered.

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interested

What sights, rifle, barrel and (importantly) what chamber do you have.  What events do you plan to compete in?  What are your goals for those events?  These are important to determine where you will reach your point of diminishing return.

- Turning case necks - mostly useless unless you have a custom, tight-necked chamber, in which case it's mandatory.

- Using bench rest primers VS standard primers - I have used both and don't see any particular difference.  Pick one type and stick with it until all/most of the other bugs are worked out.

- Using competition seating dies over standard dies - Definitely worth having.  If you can afford one, get it, if for no other reason than the ease of changing OAL.

- Crimping and not crimping - I have not found this necessary and don't do it on any of my precision reloads

- Loading to be just off the lands or kissing the lands - I always load off the lands, typically 0.010".  If the loads need to fit the magazine, I load short enough to fit.  

- Uniforming primer pockets - Do it as soon as you can, when cleaning primer pockets is a good time.

- Deburring flash holes - Do it before the first loading.

- Bumping shoulders VS resizing to factory specs - push them back about 0.002".

To me this will be the biggest factor in determining how badly you'll reach 'paralysis by analysis' as I'd like to call it.  As mentioned, pick up a book about bench rest shooting and prepare to be amazed/baffled by the amount of time and effort they put into gaining .1 MOA.  You may find that what has been already mentioned above is enough to get the results you desire.  

 

OK I'm sold on the competition seating dies.

If I were to buy a Redding seating micrometer, would it fit in my Dillon seating die?

Also, what's the difference between the VLD micrometer and the Standard?

VLD is for those really long bullets like the Berger 90g in .223. I have the Redding comp in .308 and really like it. I don't know about the Dillon question as I don't have a Dillon but as far as I

know it should fit.

By now you probably get the drift... that there are no easy answers to these questions because the context really matters.
Your GAP-10 is a very popular rig and the Bartlein bbl with the right reamer is certainly capable of accuracy work (notice I didn't use precision since a great group off the target isn't likely to make you happy in your context).
Your best bet is to start out reading to save yourself time and money. An isolated individual is going to have to have a lot of resources and a long life to accomplish these goals. Better to learn from your peers and build on their base.

The distance match games that include highpower, silhouette, F-Class, benchrest, etc. all run a little different schools of thought but have the goal of precision with more than a cold bore shot.
The Riflemen's Journal Blog by German Salazar is a good site to start reading about precision loading for distances past 300 yards. Also, there are a few books you should digest like the ones Zediker sells, the books by Ratigan and Boyer on benchrest, the ballistics and shooting books by Litz, the Precision Shooting Reloading Guide, etc. etc.
Not everything from the M14 transfers to the GAP-10 loading, but that knowledge base helps you watch for issues and differences. When you start your bolt gun, you will find many more new differences. In any case, here is a little nightstand reading and good luck with your GAP-10 and bolt gun build.
http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/p/articles-index.html

A while back I think Biggdawg took the time and made some match rounds and the results werent that much different than regular case prep for an AR.  Considering the enormous amount of time it takes to do this.

This is precission reloading in a nutshell.

Left hand column  he has a 4 pt series with vids, titled   AR-308 Precision Loading  you can click thru

I thought it was well done.

I'm definitely going to buy some of these books and get to reading.

What do you guys think about gauging run out for a gasser like I'm shooting?

GET THE ZEDIKER BOOK. It's outstanding, and the way he writes is actually pretty entertaining. I've read it a few times.

Also Google German Salazar's articles, he has a ton of reloading info and knows what he's talking about.

I've been handloading .308 for 1K for a few years now, here are my opinions:




I would add, if you have the scratch get a Giraud, they save a ton of time.

I also measure all my charges on a digital scale, and use a forester co-ax press for everything. Get more brass than you think you will need and weigh and sort your cases, toss the shitty ones.

Sir, I'm going to try to answer your question anecdotally.

Some years ago when a friend and myself were competing with M1As in a Navy East Coast Match, my friend had a pocket sized "run-out" tool that he had made with a Gems dial indicator (he's a tool and die maker in real life).  Since we were using issue M852 he sorted his ammo by run out and saved the rounds with the least run out the slow fire prone stage of the match.  I on the other hand was not convinced such things made any significant difference.  Since both of us have always been of about equal skill it seemed reasonable to conclude his significantly higher scores in the MR prone were largely due to the less and more consistent run out of the rounds he used for that stage of the match.

Suffice it to say I take considerable care particularly for long range stages of a match to use cartridges with minimal run out, but fwiw I take great care to load them all that way.  HTH, 7zero1.

After about a year in the long distance arena we have rounds that are far better than we we first began. I agree with most of the comments above but I would ADD record keeping to the list of must do`s. Buy a Kestrel and a Magneedo Speed and USE them.
It also helps to have an IR temp gun and a stop watch so that you can replicate test conditions while doing load work ups. Our last batch of "confirmed" match rounds had a "zero" sd. I`d better hush now.

Sir, tell me more!  7zero1 out.

Ya, I'd like to hear more about this too.

Unless you're a far-sub-MOA shooter with a far-sub-MOA gun, it won't buy you anything appreciable, especially if you're using good dies in the first place.

Just got through this book and am reloading 223 for highpower matches. Great book:



http://www.zediker.com/books/handloading/hlmain.html

OK OK OK!!!!!! I`ll tell you guys what we do. lol

When we are working up loads ( my son is the shooter) we ALWAYS record chamber/barrel temp with the IR device so that we can recreate , as close as possible, the conditions of the prior shot when running the chronograph for example. This is where the stop watch comes in. It`s pretty easy to graph ( predict) the effect of different chamber /barrel temps on poi.  

Some of his competitions have timed stations where he has to fire , say, eight shots in 90 seconds. We have data showing the poi differential at different ranges vs. barrel / chamber temps. There are many many relationships that are temp dependent. We still have lots and lots to explore but what we have learned has shown that we are on the right track.

Powder temp is something we are working on now. Baking sun in the summer with no shade with rounds sitting out vs. being covered is an issue. I do NOT know everything but we are getting there quickly. My background helps a lot. His education ( MBA)  helps a lot. I don`t type well enough to do a book on the subject here.

projectile choice will have far bigger impact than any other fiddling you could possibly do. deburring primer pockets, turning necks, runout/concentricity, etc. is diminishing returns. unless you are already pushing .2moa it's a waste of time.

The most important part of accurate reloading is selection of a high quality bullet.  Then development of an accurate load component combination.

Concentricity - RCBS Case Master

I use the RCBS Case Master to monitor case neck and bullet concentricity.  For long range or high power long line this is appropriate.  Typically you want to keep the run out 4/1000 or less.  

To do that consistently, you need good quality brass, and a high quality die set. I use RCBS Competition dies and Redding FL Neck Bushing dies, and BR seater dies.  Hence in monitoring run out, I cover two other key aspects of accurate reloading

The Case Master will also do other things including check for incipient case head separation.

Real proof would be you testing all of these and understanding what works and what doesn't.  Don't believe what other people say, ho find out what works for you.

I would be very surprised if anybody can reliably achieve .2moa groups without doing all that had been mentioned plus more. If I am wrong please tell me because I am in the middle of reloading and would rather not have to do all the prep work to achieve .5moa capable ammo, let alone .2moa ammo.

Thanks

The secret to great accuracy is a good barrel.

a good chamber, bolt, and a perfect crown.

I got that covered. I have a Bartlein on the GAP-10 and am getting a Bartlein turned for my bolt gun.

Just for the perspective, you won't win too many benchrest  matches with ".2" groups.  Now if you are shooting in the .02s then you might have something.  The most important aspect of the precision game is $$$$$.  EVERY edge(technique) is tried.  Somebody will come up with THEE technique and IF you want to win you will follow the winner.  THEE BEST BBLs, bullets, optics, presses etc. AND the ability to shoot, not just pull triggers.

the best modifications you can make to improve accuracy is behind the trigger. wont matter how accurate your ammo is if you can't read conditions or haven't gathered enough dope data.

how well are you consistently shooting with factory ammo currently?

Sir, +1 to that!  I've always thought of it as the triangle of shooting, ie:  rifle, ammo, shooter.  If all three don't perform well the shots WILL go awry.  JMHO, 7zero1.

Very good. I'm a 15 year Marine with a 10th Award Rifle Expert badge. I know a little bit about marksmanship.

I will give my opinions on how I find accuracy in my process.  I have loaded over 7000 rounds of precision rifle over the past 2 years.  I shoot a lot of precision rifle matches and am qualified as a pro in the Precision Rifle Series.