know headspace and OAL issues have been covered before, but I am either missing something crucial or am just a plain idiot.   I have been having a problem with FTE, so from the wealth of info on this forum I have assumed I have headspace issues.   So I  have a bought a Wilson headspace gauge.    Most of my cases measure within specs on my caliper and the Wilson gage, a few are long.  So on the long cases I am set up my Redding full length sizeing die as instructed, touching the shell holder plus 1/4 to 1/3 turn.   I am trying to bump the shoulder back .002-.003, right?   Howver when I measure the case again it is about .003 longer!  Is this correct?  Should I just trim to 1.755.-1.76 at that point and be done?   I have tried screwing the die in and out a bit, same results.  I am using Lee sizing lube and One shot.   One other thing, When sizeing the case feeds smothly until the last 1/8 inch or so, for that last bit I have pult more presure into it, I dont feel like I am forcing anything.  Any Ideas?

Thanks guys!

Thanks Dryflash, let me add one bit of info.  Even when I screw down the FL sizeing die more than instructed, the headspace becomes further out of spec, longer( according to the Wilson Gauge).  So a case with the neck at the top of gauge before sizeing will end up noticablly above the gauge high point after sizeing.   Shouldn't the headspace show as shorter after sizeing?

You are confusing headspace with case length.

Do as Dryflash says to set headspace. Get the primer end to fall between the end of the gauge and the cut.
The other end (case mouth/neck) doesn't matter yet.

After you get the headspace right, you can trim the case to length.
After sizing the case gets longer. That's what you are seeing with the case mouth sticking out farther at the other end of the gauge than before it was sized.

Get the headspace set then worry about how long the case is. Size then trim.

You are confusing me.  Are you sizing the case and then looking at the neck end of the case?  Why?  Size the case and pay attention to how the "HEAD" of the case sits into the gauge.

See, I told you I am an idiot.  I knew I was missing something obvious.  Thanks to all, really appreciate the help.  Don't tell my girlfriend ok? She thinks I'm smart.

oops, posted before reading all the way through again.  what's longer the whole case or the shoulder location?  apples and apple cobbler.

yep, set up your die for the shoulder location, worry about the neck trimming after,
clean, lube, size, trim, chamfer/debur, clean in that order for best results.

It is normal for the case to grow in length when sizing.  that neck area is the only outlet for all the squeezing going on.  The shoulder will also move forward/get longer if you're not hitting it against the die's shoulder.   Not that you're doing it with your die caming over like your set up but partial sizing with a full length die can often do that.


Eta a dial caliper with a tool for reading off the shoulder is considered essential for die set up by many.  Lots of guys use those drop in gages but they don't mean shit to me. i want to know how it relates to my chamber not some $25 irrelevant gadget.  Your chamber and that fake chamber gadget aren't necessarily the same.  I'll garner howls of protests on that one though.

ETA 2- You can have vaired results bassed on the brass lots themselves.  The brass gets hardened the more you use it and you get "spring back" when you hit the shoulder with the die it can spring back up on you due to the brass hardness.  That's why some anneal brass.  I see it more with USGI .30-06 than 5.56

OK all good info but what does it have to do with the OP's problem? He said he is having problems with ""FTE"" Isn't FTE ( Failure to Eject ) ??

Failure to eject is not caused by head space problems.

 

Maybe. But if you read the OP carefully and maybe between the lines a little, I am betting it is .223/5.56 caliber and the rifle is an AR-15. I stand by my post.

An easy way to help with trimming. Lock your calipers at 1.76". If the case doesnt fit, then it needs trimmed. Easier then doing an actual measurement each time.

Ok, so now that I am using the gauge correctly I wa able to set the Full length sizeing die to bring the headspace within specs, according to the Wilson gauge.   Really appreciate everyone's help with that!  

So asssuming that I am and have been trimming my cases to 1.755 to 1.760 and keeping my OAL to 2.26 ( I have been) is there any othe reloading issue that could be causing a FTE.  I recall reading here that headspace would cause FTE,, is that corrrect?     Yes, it is an AR15, Bushmaster.  I know, far from the best but it was all I could find and I am glad to have it, as I cannot buy another in NY.    I did atempt to polish the chamber with a bronze brush in a drill, ran it about 15 min.   The chamber is clean.   What is the next thing to look at?

What is your barrel length, gas system length, and your load data?

Horandy 55gr FMJ w/c  23.6 gr of IMR8208 XBR   Followed the OAL specs in the Horandy book, I think it  is 2.20 but I dont have the book at hand.   I am trying not to improvise, following instructions.  

The barrel is 16 in

Ok, that's what I understood about headspace.  Most of the bullets have canulere, seating so most of the grove is in the neck so I assume that is correct, right?   I am also using a Lee factory crimp die.  Light crimp, not going crazy on it.  

Or for 10$ buy metal case guage that works with 50+ brass cases... Dunno, but it seems cheaper than dedicating a set of calipers

I shouldn't have a problem with OAL, I just picked up that Little Crow World Finest Trimmer, I set that up last night to trim to 1.755.  I think it would be faster to run all the cases thru the trimmer rather than measure each one, sound right?

To all, really appreciate the good advise!

I shouldn't have a problem with OAL, I just picked up that Little Crow World Finest Trimmer, I set that up last night to trim to 1.755.  I think it would be faster to run all the cases thru the trimmer rather than measure each one, sound right?

To all, really appreciate the good advise!

Dedicating a set of calipers?  The lock is a simple thumbscrew, you tighten it on a setting, when you're done you loosen it so the works travel freely again.  Literally a 2 second operation to lock and unlock.

OP, yes, that's what most guys who aren't hand cranking a manual lathe trimmer do, they just process them all.

Thanks Dryflash and everyone, all great advice.   Now I just need some time to get to the range and see if these changes work.

Have you dissembled and cleaned your bolt and all of it's parts. Is your extractor in good condition and is it moving freely on its pin. Does your extractor have an "O" as well as a spring. If it does is the "O" ring in good condition?

How severe is this failure to eject? Does the bolt open and leave the case in the chamber or does the bolt not open far enough or not at all?

It sounds like your loading procedure is OK. I did not look up your load but if its way under powered I'm sure somebody would have pointed it out already.

If you still have FTE please describe in detail what exactly is happening.

Oh yes, I have been disasembleing the BCG and cleaning after the range, I spend near an hour cleaing the rifle each time.  I have read almost everything  on the site about maintenance  and cleaning, watched videos, everything.  ( lurk and learn!) The extractor is ok, moves like it should and the spring and O ring are in good shape.  

When it won't eject the bolt stays on the case and does not open.  I usually have to slam the butt on a bench while holding the chargeing handle ( mortoring?).  I get a stuck fired case perhaps every 20-40 rounds.    One time I needed a gunsmith to get the unfired case out, the case was stuck and the bolt would not go to battery.  I am assuming that one unfired FTE was a fluke, just a case really out of spec, that was only once out of 300-400 rounds.   Its the FTE on the fired cases that I am worried about.    What do you think?