fastest way for case prep - expect the "Giraud way"

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - fastest way for case prep - expect the "Giraud way"

Posted: 11/7/2012 11:45:21 PM EDT

Hey guys,
I´m sick in case preparing for my rilfes, doing this for hours and hours.

So I am looking to hurry it up and want to ask you now, what your "fast way" in case prep is.

Actually I´m using the Lyman (electric) trimmer and do the deburring out- and inside of the case mouth with my drilling machine fixed in my bench vise.

In my opinion I have the wrong tools.
Trimming and deburring lasts to long, I think the tools, including the Lyman, aren´t sharp enough or get dull to fast.

Have someone inhere an idea to improve those steps?
Another tool or anything?

Sure, the Giraud would do the job, but it is to expensive.
If I would get out that price by trimming cases, I had to become 217 years old.

The calibers are .223, 7,5 and .30-06.

Need advice,
cheers,
J.

Posted: 11/8/2012 2:07:57 AM EDT

[#1]

Other than getting a full prep station, thagt you can go everything case prep related. Hornaday, RCBS make them, i forget if Lyman has a full prep station. I think that is ths only fast way to do it. Im still doing everything by hand, even my AR stuff. My hands hurt after 45 mins of case prep.

Posted: 11/8/2012 3:06:40 AM EDT

[#2]

Think you are right about the tools getting dull, I have upgraded all my cutting tools to Sinclair/Redding. Well worth the $$$.

I do have a Gracey trimmer though, I tell you know cramped blistered finger man.. Save, beg borrow or steal to get one!!!

I was very lucky to have a friend GIVE me one, said he had no use for it after taking it in on an estate sale. In .223 no less.

Posted: 11/8/2012 3:19:01 AM EDT

[#3]

RCBS 3-way trimmer, which has the same threads as the Hornady cam-lock. Pulled the handle off my cam-lock, added two jam nuts and a socket attached to a drill, and now I have a cheap powered trimmer. Add a case gage so you're only trimming the ones that need trimming, and you'll trim less, what you trim will go faster, and with the 3-way cutter, there's no chamfering or deburring. Basically, my process looks like this:

Brass goes in the tumbler for a cleaning. When it comes out, I batch lube, then run through the sizer/decapper and they all go through the gage. Ones that pass the gage go in the tumbler again, ones that don't get batch trimmed per above, then tumbled. Load those up in the dillon for priming, powder drop, powder check (with the powder cop die), bullet seating and taper crimping. Doing the case prep in batches, you get into a groove and can go a lot faster than if you're switching operations with each individual piece of brass.

Giraud is expensive because it is really good at what it does. Expect to pay for quality + speed.

Posted: 11/8/2012 4:07:44 AM EDT

[#4]

XL650 with a RT1200 trimmer.

/thread

Posted: 11/8/2012 5:30:19 AM EDT

[#5]

It's a tough problem.

I like the Possum Hollow trimmers, but I need to find a way to hold the cases that doesn't wreck my hands when I trim several hundred. The Forster vise for a drill press is an option for holding the cases.

After using a RCBS trimmer with the motor last spring at the NRA convention, I am considering adding the motor to my trimmer. I'm not crazy about the expense, but the machine worked well, and with the combination head the trim and deburr steps are done at one time.

Deburring should be a fairly quick step. All that is required is to remove the burr and break the edge of the case mouth just ever so slightly. There should not be a remarkable chamfer.

Posted: 11/8/2012 5:31:07 AM EDT

[#6]

If you have a drill press, A possum hollow trimmer for $25 will change the game for trimming. Its mush faster than the lathe style trimmers. They can be used by hand or in a power drill but a drill press makes it a poor mans gracie/giraud. There is a step up from it called the "Worlds Finest Trimmer" for $70

In the US we can get cheap chinese drill pressed for 50-75, and they are really handy for gun work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHm13PF6o-o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KNOLN0ByH8

Posted: 11/8/2012 6:49:50 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
It's a tough problem.

I like the Possum Hollow trimmers, but I need to find a way to hold the cases that doesn't wreck my hands when I trim several hundred. The Forster vise for a drill press is an option for holding the cases.

After using a RCBS trimmer with the motor last spring at the NRA convention, I am considering adding the motor to my trimmer. I'm not crazy about the expense, but the machine worked well, and with the combination head the trim and deburr steps are done at one time.

Deburring should be a fairly quick step. All that is required is to remove the burr and break the edge of the case mouth just ever so slightly. There should not be a remarkable chamfer.

I have one of those on the way from the EE. It is the fastest design I've seen that actually dimensions the trim length from the case head, when used with the 3-way cutter.

Posted: 11/8/2012 6:52:50 AM EDT

[#8]

Possum Hollow, WFT (World's Finest Trimmer), Gracey, Dillon RT1200, Giruad, Forster (or other manual) with power adapter, and Hornady LNL Case Prep Center are your only options that I am aware of.

If you are truly tired of trimming, chamfering, and deburring then your options are:

Dillon - Doesn't chamfer/debur (doesn't really need it most of the time since the cut is clean). You would also need to have C4HD make a 7,5 die for you as Dillon doesn't make one. The big plus is that you only handle each case once to trim and size vs twice for the following 2 machines.
Giraud - Is the most easily adjusted and allows for the quickest caliber changes of the 3 and is quiet compared to the Dillon.
Gracey - Over priced IMHO for the under powered motor and crappy cutting blade. It also is a PITA to adjust for different calibers from all videos and reviews I have seen.

I have a Forster Classic, Possum Hollow, Dillon, and 2 Giraud's. The Dillon is probably going to be sold as it is loud and still somewhat difficult to setup and swap calibers. I also don't have a case feeder and don't plan on stepping up to an XL 650 or LNL AP from my 550B so it really isn't that big of an improvement over the Dillon.

Posted: 11/8/2012 7:08:35 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

XL650 with a RT1200 trimmer.

NOTHING can beat the RT1200 for speed because when used with your case prep toolhead on a progressive (what it was designed for) it adds ZERO seconds to the process to trim. That's right, not a single second to trim 1,000 cases over the time it takes to resize and decap them.

BTW, I trim 30 Carbine, .223, .308, and 30-06 with mine and all of them come out great with no burrs and no need to chamfer the inside of the case. I've tried it both ways and there is neither an accuracy increase nor an ease of inserting a flat base bullet advantage with chamfering the inside of the case.

Posted: 11/8/2012 7:15:31 AM EDT

[#10]

What kind of press do you have OP? That would help narrow things down a bit.

Posted: 11/8/2012 7:44:57 AM EDT

[#11]

I recently fell in lust with the RCBS 3 way trimmer. Trim, chamfer, and deburr with a few turns of the handle.
I recently bought the .30, and the .22 showed up the other day. Times have been massively decreased for prep.

Posted: 11/8/2012 8:15:03 AM EDT

[#12]

Agreed. I have a couple of WFT trimmers, the stock Hornady lathe trimmer and an RCBS 3-way head. For medium volume trimming I fell in love with the 3-way just because it means that I only have to work on the case one time vs multiple steps with the other methods.

If I ever get around to real high volume trimming then the Dillon 1200b is on my must-have list.

Posted: 11/8/2012 8:36:14 AM EDT

[#13]

the fastest way is to go with the dillon rt1200 pull the handle and your brass is sized and trimmed.

smooth cuts and you don't have to chamfer or debur if you don't want to. i do for my precision loads but it isn't needed.

Posted: 11/8/2012 8:45:07 AM EDT

[#14]

Actually, even a Giraud trimmer, as fast as it is, only does one of the many steps of brass prep.

Tumble
Lube
Size
Swage

Trim
Chamfer ––––––- Only these three steps are facilitated by the Giraud trimmer
Deburr

Some people even want to, deburr flashhole and neck turn.

Even if you have one for every caliber you own, you still have a BIG job on your hands.

The only method to avoid this - buy match pre-prep'd brass

Other wise, you'll also want these:

Swaging - Dillon swager

Deburr flashhole - use hand tool in slow moving drill press

Neck turn - hand operation

Or buy a Dillon 1050 with all the goodies (as discussed). Automating this process is very expensive. Buying match prep'd brass looks very attractive.

Posted: 11/8/2012 8:51:51 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
the fastest way is to go with the dillon rt1200 pull the handle and your brass is sized and trimmed.

smooth cuts and you don't have to chamfer or debur if you don't want to. i do for my precision loads but it isn't needed.

Exactly. Those who think otherwise have not used the Dillon trimmer with the Dillon case-feeder and the Dillon automated primer pocket swage/crimp remover (only available on the 1050)

Step 1: dump lubed brass in hooper

Step 2: pull handle.

Done.

Brass is processed and read to load. You don't even have to touch the brass at all (unlike Giraud/Gracy/possum hollow or any other trimmer).

Posted: 11/8/2012 9:12:16 AM EDT

[#16]

I've got the Lyman Universal with power drill adapter bar and can do say 9-10 .308 cases in a minute. I then need to campher/deburr the mouths and I have a RCBS Trim Mate with various tools, like a neck brush, PP cleaning brush, flash hole deburrer and decrimpers (if needed). I can do about 3 cases a minute, covering 4-5 steps listed above.

I've read of a guy that had a machine shop mill out his Lyman cutting bar so it would accept the RCBS 3 way cutter, but for me...it is what it is. Kind of like brushing your teeth and wiping your butt––you've just got to bite the bullet and get the chore done.

If time is a concern, or you just really, really hate case prep, get a Giraud and be done with it.

Chris

Posted: 11/8/2012 10:21:20 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
the fastest way is to go with the dillon rt1200 pull the handle and your brass is sized and trimmed.

smooth cuts and you don't have to chamfer or debur if you don't want to. i do for my precision loads but it isn't needed.

Exactly. Those who think otherwise have not used the Dillon trimmer with the Dillon case-feeder and the Dillon automated primer pocket swage/crimp remover (only available on the 1050)

Step 1: dump lubed brass in hooper

Step 2: pull handle.

Done.

Brass is processed and read to load. You don't even have to touch the brass at all (unlike Giraud/Gracy/possum hollow or any other trimmer).

This is the way that works best for me also , the next step is a setup like RR

Posted: 11/8/2012 11:04:11 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
What kind of press do you have OP? That would help narrow things down a bit.

Oh my god,
such a lot of infos I haven´t really expected that!

I have a Dillon 550, loving it.

I´m doing about 4k of .223 and about 1k of .30-06 and 7,5 every year.

Posted: 11/8/2012 11:16:18 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What kind of press do you have OP? That would help narrow things down a bit.

Oh my god,
such a lot of infos I haven´t really expected that!

I have a Dillon 550, loving it.

I´m doing about 4k of .223 and about 1k of .30-06 and 7,5 every year.

I have the same press. Given that there is no rifle case feeder available (you can make the pistol case feeder work for .223 with some modifications from what I have read) I don't see the benefit from the Dillon trimmer. I have a Hornady single stage press that I would wind up using if I used the Dillon trimmer.

Honestly I would probably go with either the Forster or RCBS trimmer with the 3-way cutter and power adapter or the Giraud if I were in your situation. I just finished trimming and sizing 4K pieces of .223 brass and it took about 7 hours to size it on my Hornady 00-7 and 5-6 hours to trim on the Giraud.

Posted: 11/8/2012 12:57:57 PM EDT

[#20]

All right then.

I want to give the RCBS three way trimmer a try.

But i do have the Lyman trimmer and the question is, if the RCBS three way toolhead will fit the winding on the Lyman.

Can somebody tell me that?

Posted: 11/8/2012 1:08:56 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
All right then.

I want to give the RCBS three way trimmer a try.

But i do have the Lyman trimmer and the question is, if the RCBS three way toolhead will fit the winding on the Lyman.

Can somebody tell me that?

I believe Chris answered this and the answer is that it isn't easy:

Quoted:
<snip>

I've read of a guy that had a machine shop mill out his Lyman cutting bar so it would accept the RCBS 3 way cutter, but for me...it is what it is. <snip>

<snip>

Chris

Posted: 11/8/2012 1:12:13 PM EDT

[#22]

Just measured my RCBS 3-way and you should be looking at 3/8 x 24 NF thread. You'll have to check on the Lyman to see what the female threads measure out at.

Posted: 11/8/2012 1:33:35 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What kind of press do you have OP? That would help narrow things down a bit.

Oh my god,
such a lot of infos I haven´t really expected that!

I have a Dillon 550, loving it.

I´m doing about 4k of .223 and about 1k of .30-06 and 7,5 every year.

I have the same press. Given that there is no rifle case feeder available (you can make the pistol case feeder work for .223 with some modifications from what I have read) I don't see the benefit from the Dillon trimmer. I have a Hornady single stage press that I would wind up using if I used the Dillon trimmer.

Honestly I would probably go with either the Forster or RCBS trimmer with the 3-way cutter and power adapter or the Giraud if I were in your situation. I just finished trimming and sizing 4K pieces of .223 brass and it took about 7 hours to size it on my Hornady 00-7 and 5-6 hours to trim on the Giraud.

I load .223 on a Dillon RL550 with casefeed. Mods to make casefeed work with .223 are trivial - it will never work for 30.06 (30.06 cases are too tall). I also trim with the Dillon RT1200. I used to use the RCBS Universal trimmer that I adapted to drill-power - the RCBS type trimmers require case mouth deburring inside and out, whereas the Giraud and Dillon trimmers do not.

jlficken could have processed that brass in 1/2 the time on his Hornady 00-7 with the Dillon trimmer (sizes and trims in 1 step) or 1/3 the time with any progressive press w/casefeeder and the Dillon trimmer.

Posted: 11/8/2012 1:51:49 PM EDT

[#24]

I sped up trimming a little - not to the level of the others - by putting the three way cutter on my RCBS Pro trimmer. I found the drill sagged, so I built a sled using drawer runners. Brass goes from a tray in front of the trimmer (not shown), to the trimmer, then to the tray on the back of the sled. Pretty efficient. One step trims, deburs and chamfers and it's ergonomically comfortable use. I only process batches of 100 - 200 at a time though, so it's good enough for me right now. (It's portable and installs on "T" rails.)

Posted: 11/8/2012 1:59:16 PM EDT

[#25]

Have only owned (2) trimmers in the time I have been reloading, the first was a:

and my second and last is:

I have been very pleased trimming 30.06 and .308 cases

Posted: 11/8/2012 2:18:50 PM EDT

[#26]

Another vote for the Dillon RT1200 trimmer. I do my case prep on a single stage. First is a universal decapper. Then, the 1200 sizes and trims. Finally, if needed, RCBS primer de-crimper. Then, the brass goes over to the 550B for loading.

Posted: 11/8/2012 2:36:45 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Just measured my RCBS 3-way and you should be looking at 3/8 x 24 NF thread. You'll have to check on the Lyman to see what the female threads measure out at.

I believe the issue with the lyman trimmer is space for the cutter head, not the thread. Could be wrong on that. The Hornady cam-lock works just fine with it though.

Posted: 11/8/2012 3:04:02 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
the fastest way is to go with the dillon rt1200 pull the handle and your brass is sized and trimmed.

smooth cuts and you don't have to chamfer or debur if you don't want to. i do for my precision loads but it isn't needed.

Exactly. Those who think otherwise have not used the Dillon trimmer with the Dillon case-feeder and the Dillon automated primer pocket swage/crimp remover (only available on the 1050)

Step 1: dump lubed brass in hooper

Step 2: pull handle. activate power drive unit.

Done.

Brass is processed and read to load. You don't even have to touch the brass at all (unlike Giraud/Gracy/possum hollow or any other trimmer).

This is the way that works best for me also , the next step is a setup like RR

Posted: 11/8/2012 4:30:51 PM EDT

[#29]

3 way cutter threads are 3/8x24. (3/8 fine thread)

Check you Lyman trimmer with a 3/8 fine thread bolt to see if it threads in.

Posted: 11/8/2012 5:14:44 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Just measured my RCBS 3-way and you should be looking at 3/8 x 24 NF thread. You'll have to check on the Lyman to see what the female threads measure out at.

I believe the issue with the lyman trimmer is space for the cutter head, not the thread. Could be wrong on that. The Hornady cam-lock works just fine with it though.

It's evidently a different thread pitch and not too hard to rethread. From the fellow's PM, the 3 way RCBS cutter head did work on the Lyman, but going on memory, I don't know if it was the motorized Lyman, or the standard version, like I have.

I did PM him about whether the RCBS would fit, of if the 'bar' needed refitting and he replied that it did, so I'm not expressing hearsay.

Chris

Posted: 11/9/2012 3:17:05 AM EDT

[#31]

Well guys, this is fantastic!

I had no idea how much different methods are there to trimm cases.
I have never expected so much information for my question.

THANK YOU ALL!
Great!

As I wrote in the beginning, price matters.

So my first choice would be the RCBS three way trimming tool head.
Trimming, chamfering and deburring in one step.

Therefor I wrote an email to RCBS, hoping that their tool will fit my Lyman trimmer (sry, I cant measure inch windings

) or that I can fix it easily.

If this will fail, I will take second best and go to get an WTF-WFT

shipped to the old continent.
Well knowing now, that I have to deburr in a second step.

Thanks again, great thread here!

Posted: 11/10/2012 9:55:25 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
It's evidently a different thread pitch and not too hard to rethread. From the fellow's PM, the 3 way RCBS cutter head did work on the Lyman, but going on memory, I don't know if it was the motorized Lyman, or the standard version, like I have.

I did PM him about whether the RCBS would fit, of if the 'bar' needed refitting and he replied that it did, so I'm not expressing hearsay.

Chris

Hey Chris,
the motorized Lyman is the same as the "normal", the driving shafts are the same (expect the drill adapter) and the cutter heads too.

I think the RCBS 3 way cutter won´t fit.
The bore diameter of the cutter heads (Lyman and RBCS) are the same, but not the winding.
So I think a refitting is not possible.

It might work to cut the driving shaft of the Lyman, drill a new hole and set a "RCBS" fitting, for rifle brass the driving shaft will still be long enough.
But unfortunately I don´t have inch screwplates and I´m not a toolmaker who has the right equipment to do this precise and centrically.

So in the end:
The Gracey and the Giraud are to expensive.
For the WFT and the Possum stuff it seems to give some complicacies like aching hands and fingers as I read out of other forums.
Buying twice makes this stuff maybe to expensive too.
The RT Trimmer from Dillon is limited in calibers, so I would have to buy one for .223 and another one for bigger bores - how´s that?
NOPE!

So I will go for an RCBS trimmer adapted for a drilling machine and the 3-way-cutter-heads.
Selling my used Lyman stuff.

Great help and input guys.
Thanks again!

Posted: 11/10/2012 11:01:43 AM EDT

[#33]

Gracey trim head with your own power.

Posted: 11/14/2012 1:14:31 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's evidently a different thread pitch and not too hard to rethread. From the fellow's PM, the 3 way RCBS cutter head did work on the Lyman, but going on memory, I don't know if it was the motorized Lyman, or the standard version, like I have.

I did PM him about whether the RCBS would fit, of if the 'bar' needed refitting and he replied that it did, so I'm not expressing hearsay.

Chris

Hey Chris,
the motorized Lyman is the same as the "normal", the driving shafts are the same (expect the drill adapter) and the cutter heads too.

I think the RCBS 3 way cutter won´t fit.
The bore diameter of the cutter heads (Lyman and RBCS) are the same, but not the winding.
So I think a refitting is not possible.

It might work to cut the driving shaft of the Lyman, drill a new hole and set a "RCBS" fitting, for rifle brass the driving shaft will still be long enough.
But unfortunately I don´t have inch screwplates and I´m not a toolmaker who has the right equipment to do this precise and centrically.

So in the end:
The Gracey and the Giraud are to expensive.
For the WFT and the Possum stuff it seems to give some complicacies like aching hands and fingers as I read out of other forums.
Buying twice makes this stuff maybe to expensive too.
The RT Trimmer from Dillon is limited in calibers, so I would have to buy one for .223 and another one for bigger bores - how´s that?
NOPE!

So I will go for an RCBS trimmer adapted for a drilling machine and the 3-way-cutter-heads.
Selling my used Lyman stuff.

Great help and input guys.
Thanks again!

Not exactly...you just have to buy different trim dies for each caliber. 223 can come from Dillon and the others from C4HD. The trimmer itself should be the same for all of the calibers you listed.

Posted: 11/21/2012 10:01:56 AM EDT

[#35]

Hi guys, me again.

I now have a RCBS Trim Pro 2 and the 3-way-cutter.
I´ve also got the Power Drill Converter, which seems to be a bad joke to me.

It is way too small for a fast job with the drilling machine, it´s about 0,185".
I´m not sure if I will wreck it by using it the first time.

It is impossible to fix the drilling machine, you must hold it all the time and press it against the bolt head.
RCBS, I´m dissapointed.
Take a look at Lyman how it works.

I would have taken a longer bolt to fix the machine, but a 0,185" bolt will brake.

What can I do to get my drilling machine fixed on the RCBS Trim Pro?

Posted: 11/21/2012 10:08:14 AM EDT

[#36]

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say but the power adapter appears to work just fine in the following video.

It still looks cumbersome to me though

Posted: 11/21/2012 10:15:50 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Tools/PC300712.jpg

3 way cutter threads are 3/8x24. (3/8 fine thread)

Check you Lyman trimmer with a 3/8 fine thread bolt to see if it threads in.

Is this 3/8x24 UNF???

If it is, I would look for such screw taps to get the 3-way-cutter fixed on the Lyman trimmer, as subscribed.

Posted: 11/21/2012 10:18:33 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say but the power adapter appears to work just fine in the following video.

It still looks cumbersome to me though

This is a totally other tool!

I´ve got the RCBS Power Drill Converter 98930 here.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/421718/rcbs-trim-pro-case-trimmer-power-drill-converter

And read the reviews!
That´s what I said.

WHAT IS THAT IN THIS VIDEO!?!?!

Posted: 11/21/2012 10:31:41 AM EDT

[#39]

From the following video it appears that he was just chucking the drill directly onto the shaft of the trimmer and bypassing the power adapter.

Posted: 11/21/2012 12:08:41 PM EDT

[#40]

Ouh,

if it would be THAT easy, ahm, well...

I come home tomorrow and then I can try it.

I thought that the main driving shaft would be to thick to fit a normal chuck.

We will see.

Posted: 11/21/2012 6:38:38 PM EDT

[#41]

I just took the handle off my Trimpro and put my 1/2" drill on it. It fits, couldn't be simpler.

Posted: 11/22/2012 7:37:44 AM EDT

[#42]

You are right!

What for is then this power drill adapter?
Crap?

Posted: 11/22/2012 8:28:52 AM EDT

[#43]

If your brass is crimped, then a Dillon 1050 with an RT1200 trimmer is the fastest. If it isn't crimped, either the 1050 or the Dillon 650 with the RT1200 is the fastest. It amazes me how fast I can process brass with either of them.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - fastest way for case prep - expect the "Giraud way"

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