Question about M1919A6 (lightweight) rewelded machine guns

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Question about M1919A6 (lightweight) rewelded machine guns

Posted: 3/25/2009 11:55:46 AM EDT

I am thinking of buying an M1919A6 machine gun, and after the demonstration, the salesman indicated that it was a rewelded receiver.

I asked him if it was normal and safe to fire rewelded receivers and he said yes. I asked him if he's ever questioned the durability of a rewelded receiver compared to an original.

He stated that he didn't know, but that all M1919's that he's ever seen have been rewelds.

So what is the deal? Should I look for another 1919 that is in original condition, or should I buy his rewelded gun?

Thanks!

Posted: 3/25/2009 12:11:29 PM EDT

[#1]

Fairly common for non C&R guns.

Between '68 and '86, if an original 1919, not registered prior to '68 was disassembled and there were two original plates, it could not be reassembled and registered unlesss the right sideplate was cut in half and rewelded. The regs required this of all unregistered MGs and imported MGs through those years, all of which had original factory receivers, sideplates, etc.

Who made the gun?

Posted: 3/25/2009 4:49:25 PM EDT

[#2]

N.E. Westinghouse Company was the manufacturer.

Is it safe for heavy shooting of thousands of rounds of beltfed ammunition?

Posted: 3/25/2009 5:16:08 PM EDT

[#3]

That's a really early gun registered by Doug as it's stamped with his name instead of DLO Manufacturing. You can give him a call in Florida to see if he has any history on it; don't have his number handy now but he's listed.

As for shooting it, that should not be a problem as the sideplate does not take much abuse. See if you can find where it was welded as that may give more clues.

Posted: 3/25/2009 6:38:43 PM EDT

[#4]

+1 to all the above. In the case of 1919s, "reweld" means that one sideplate was cut into two pieces, and then rewelded. The sideplate does not take much stress, and Doug (DLO) is known for doing high-quality work. I trust him.

Posted: 3/26/2009 4:41:04 AM EDT

[#5]

Is $15k + $1000 for tripod and elevation mounts a reasonable price to pay for the setup?

Posted: 3/26/2009 9:07:08 AM EDT

[#6]

Seems like a lot of money for a "reweld" to me. Especially since you can find registered side plate guns for that price and dont have the "reweld" factor there. Even though it doesnt sound like a reweld 1919 is an issue.

Posted: 3/26/2009 9:21:14 AM EDT

[#7]

To the best of my knowledge, It wouldn't be a "reweld". Per my talk with him many years ago when I bought a DLO M1917A1, he bought the BMG's in England and imported all the parts but the right side plate. He made new right side plates and photo engraved the original markings onto the new side plates, and used the original serial numbers for looks. His name is there because he was the actual maker of the new side plate. If you want to verify my post, give Doug a call at 863-491-8622. Hope this helps. An "original" USGI receiver BMG is gonna cost a lot more, as they are C&R MG's.

Posted: 3/26/2009 10:55:19 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
To the best of my knowledge, It wouldn't be a "reweld". Per my talk with him many years ago when I bought a DLO M1917A1, he bought the BMG's in England and imported all the parts but the right side plate. He made new right side plates and photo engraved the original markings onto the new side plates, and used the original serial numbers for looks. His name is there because he was the actual maker of the new side plate. If you want to verify my post, give Doug a call at 863-491-8622. Hope this helps. An "original" USGI receiver BMG is gonna cost a lot more, as they are C&R MG's.

I did some searching and it seems "original" GI 1919's are pushing 30k and beyond, so I guess 15k seems about right ...

Posted: 3/26/2009 2:35:25 PM EDT

[#9]

My opinion is that $15K is a little high for a side-plate (non-C&R) 1919 right now. That might have been an OK price a year or two ago, but prices have softened recently. I'd keep looking if I were you.

Joe

Posted: 3/26/2009 3:15:31 PM EDT

[#10]

Something just occured to me. You said it was a 1919A6, but the picture you posted is of the M1917 version sideplate. Does this indicate that someone took a DLO made 1917 watercooled MG, took it apart for reasons unknown, discarded the watercooled jacket and trunion and other 1917 parts and then built the gun into the 1919A6 configuration with the 1917 model sideplate? What does the paperwork have as the model? Without knowing more, I recommend caution. What type of bottom plate does it have...1917 or 1917 reinforced or 1917A1? Did someone take a bare DLO 1917 sideplate and put 1919A6 parts on it?

You said it was demonstrated. By demonstrated, do you mean you saw it shoot?

Posted: 3/26/2009 3:40:39 PM EDT

[#11]

I remember when doug was in Shelton, he had racks full of side plates. I would doubt that it was a welded recever gun.
I would give him a call if I were you.

Doug really knew how to make a Browning run.
He would also test fire a full cloth belt thru each gun before shipping.

Posted: 3/26/2009 9:14:24 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Something just occured to me. You said it was a 1919A6, but the picture you posted is of the M1917 version sideplate. Does this indicate that someone took a DLO made 1917 watercooled MG, took it apart for reasons unknown, discarded the watercooled jacket and trunion and other 1917 parts and then built the gun into the 1919A6 configuration with the 1917 model sideplate? What does the paperwork have as the model? Without knowing more, I recommend caution. What type of bottom plate does it have...1917 or 1917 reinforced or 1917A1? Did someone take a bare DLO 1917 sideplate and put 1919A6 parts on it?

You said it was demonstrated. By demonstrated, do you mean you saw it shoot?

Damn now you've really thrown me for a loop! What the hell??? Why does it say 1917 on the sideplate, rather than 1919??!! This is most bizarre.

I'll call Doug in the morning and get the details. Here's some more pics if it will help you help me.

Thanks for all the input guys!!!

Posted: 3/26/2009 9:26:43 PM EDT

[#13]

Work on the pics.

Posted: 3/27/2009 6:35:59 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Work on the pics.

Done.

Posted: 3/27/2009 6:38:28 AM EDT

[#15]

I just got off the phone with Douglas Oefinger in Arcadia, FL.

I gave him the serial number and a full description of the sideplate stamping, and he was shocked at what had happened to his work.

It turns out that Doug rebuilt and sold an actual M1917 as we all suspected. Then somewhere along the line, they took the 1917 sideplate and used it to make this "bastardized[sic]" M1919A6.

I told him the asking price was 15k. He said run.

So I will. Thanks for all the help guys!!!

Posted: 3/27/2009 7:07:50 AM EDT

[#16]

Glad we could help. I have owned 2 DLO MG's (still own the Sterling; the other was a M1917A1) and have talked with Doug about the 1917A1. Without knowing why someone took apart his work and made another version of the BMG from the registered sideplate (maybe there was a perfectly Good reason), I would also run away.

You tried to post some more pics, but nothing is showing. Please try again; I would like to see more of this MG.

Thanks

Posted: 3/27/2009 11:46:03 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Glad we could help. I have owned 2 DLO MG's (still own the Sterling; the other was a M1917A1) and have talked with Doug about the 1917A1. Without knowing why someone took apart his work and made another version of the BMG from the registered sideplate (maybe there was a perfectly Good reason), I would also run away.

You tried to post some more pics, but nothing is showing. Please try again; I would like to see more of this MG.

Thanks

Finally got it.

Posted: 3/27/2009 1:01:43 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

<snip>

I just got off the phone with Douglas Oefinger in Arcadia, FL.

I told him the asking price was 15k. He said run.

Well there ya go - straight from the man.

Posted: 3/27/2009 2:10:34 PM EDT

[#19]

I just bought a RAMO 1919A4 with tri-pod, extra barrels, and belts last fall for less than 15K. You should be able to find a nice one for 12-13K with acces. Keep looking.

Posted: 3/27/2009 5:41:47 PM EDT

[#20]

Thanks for fixing the pictures. Whoever put the A6 parts on it didn't put an A1/A4/A6 bottom plate on it. While it would probably be "OK" to shoot, it doesn't have the proper bottom plate on the receiver for an A6. During WWI it was discovered that the receiver pieces sometimes spread apart so a reinforcement stirrup was put across the bottom of the reciever pieces. When the 1917 was changed to the 1917A1, a redesigned wrap around bottom plate was made that came up both sides of the receiver pieces tofurther strenghten the receiver. That redesigned bottom plate was also used in the 1919A4 and 1919A6. Asthetically it doesn't look right either. Find a picture of a A4 or A6 or M37 BMG receiver at the bottom edge and you will immediately see what I am talking about. Go to http://browningmgs.com/Images_1919A4/Brownings.htm and see the pictures.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Question about M1919A6 (lightweight) rewelded machine guns

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