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Posted: 6/28/2012 10:15:53 AM EDT
Gemtech has been contacted so please let's hold off judgement until they have a chance to investigate. The can will be shipped out to them tomorrow. The silencer is not new and has a couple of thousand rounds through it. This happened on the 2nd round fired at my last range trip, ammo is 158gr Fiocchi subsonic, no damage at all to the gun, I had shot about 100 rounds unsuppressed before, I did not see any casings that were damaged. Not exactly sure what happened, but it's a pretty unsettling feeling to see you what's left of your silencer 20 yards down the range. I'll update this thread once I hear back from Gemtech to see what could have possibly caused this.
**edited for clarity           |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 10:17:32 AM EDT
[#1]
Crazy nice pic's I'll hold off my speculation and wait to hear what the story was.
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Posted: 6/28/2012 10:37:57 AM EDT
[#2]
Oh, shit.
It doesn't look like there was a baffle strike or anything to me, just that the metal failed.
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Posted: 6/28/2012 10:38:36 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Oh, shit. It doesn't look like there was a baffle strike or anything to me, just that the metal failed. No baffle strikes |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 11:26:47 AM EDT
[#4]
Wow, that's just not right.
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Posted: 6/28/2012 11:44:40 AM EDT
[#5]
It looks like the tube where the failure occurred is only .030" wall thickness.
Looking on the Multimount page on the Gemtech website it looks like there is a groove for thread relief at the front of the threads the booster attach to. That would seem to imply that that is the weakest point of the tube and that feature which resulted in .030" wall thickness was not a very strong geometrical idea. I wonder if that was 7075 or 6061. |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 11:46:25 AM EDT
[#6]
That sucks but I'm sure they'll take care of it. If it were me, I would have probably laughed my ass off when it went flying downrange.
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Posted: 6/28/2012 12:10:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
That sucks but I'm sure they'll take care of it. If it were me, I would have probably laughed my ass off when it went flying downrange. I call BS on laughing your ass off. Maybe, just maybe later on down the road, but not right away. I would be PISSED! OP, yours isnt the first one I have heard this happening too. Not sure how the others played out though. Good luck. |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 12:14:18 PM EDT
[#8]
158gr out of a pistol? Isn't there a note on the box to only shoot that ammo through carbines/subguns? 147gr ammo and the can would still be in one piece I'd bet.
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Posted: 6/28/2012 12:19:44 PM EDT
[#9]
At least it wasn't your tube!!!
~WTS |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 12:21:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: 158gr out of a pistol? Isn't there a note on the box to only shoot that ammo through carbines/subguns? 147gr ammo and the can would still be in one piece I'd bet. No |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 12:25:41 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
158gr out of a pistol? Isn't there a note on the box to only shoot that ammo through carbines/subguns? 147gr ammo and the can would still be in one piece I'd bet. No There should be. That ammo is not for use in pistols, and is the reason the can is broke. |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 12:31:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 158gr out of a pistol? Isn't there a note on the box to only shoot that ammo through carbines/subguns? 147gr ammo and the can would still be in one piece I'd bet. No There should be. That ammo is not for use in pistols, and is the reason the can is broke. Thanks for you input, but I'll wait for Gemtech's feedback. |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 12:32:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
At least it wasn't your tube!!!
~WTS *snort* 
Op, I hope gemtech takes care of you. They seem like a good company from everything I've read. |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 1:37:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Wow that's nuts. I'm sure they'll take care of you. I haven't had any issues with my multimount after extensive use. Def interested in where this goes.
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Posted: 6/28/2012 2:09:42 PM EDT
[#15]
2 rounds?
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Posted: 6/28/2012 2:16:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 158gr out of a pistol? Isn't there a note on the box to only shoot that ammo through carbines/subguns? 147gr ammo and the can would still be in one piece I'd bet. No There should be. That ammo is not for use in pistols, and is the reason the can is broke. And your reasoning behind this is what? This is the third gemtech can, that I know about, that has done this...this year. |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 2:25:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: 2 rounds? 1st round fine, 2nd round....wait that was loud gun felt lighter, ok wtf. |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 3:35:12 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
2 rounds? that can has seen more than 2 rounds through it imho |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 3:39:15 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
158gr out of a pistol? Isn't there a note on the box to only shoot that ammo through carbines/subguns? 147gr ammo and the can would still be in one piece I'd bet. No There should be. That ammo is not for use in pistols, and is the reason the can is broke. And your reasoning behind this is what? This is the third gemtech can, that I know about, that has done this...this year. 158rg 9mm ammo is for blowback carbines and submachine guns. No pistol, or pistol suppressor with a booster was made/designed for the torque/pressure/recoil whatever you want to call it of that ammo. That stuff will tear up the insides of an MP5 too. 158gr 9mm ammo is great in a suppressed UZI, STEN, MAC, etc. but you will ruin a locking action pistol with that stuff. I'm sure Kel or PhD will be along soon, and recommend no one use 158gr 9mm in a locking pistol, or a boosted suppressor - or, they may tell me I'm wrong. Either way, I don't recommend it. |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 3:39:44 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
2 rounds? that can has seen more than 2 rounds through it imho probably only 2 rounds of that ammo. |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 3:42:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Damn.... The front fell off!!!!!
Sorry....Slug-O |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 3:45:39 PM EDT
[#22]
Damn. Regardless of the cause that sucks.
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Posted: 6/28/2012 3:49:16 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 6/28/2012 3:49:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Quoted: 2 rounds? that can has seen more than 2 rounds through it imho It's seen a lot more than that. This trip I shot 100 rounds without the can, put the can on and 2 rounds into a 17rd magazine........this happened. |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 3:56:14 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 158gr out of a pistol? Isn't there a note on the box to only shoot that ammo through carbines/subguns? 147gr ammo and the can would still be in one piece I'd bet. No There should be. That ammo is not for use in pistols, and is the reason the can is broke. And your reasoning behind this is what? This is the third gemtech can, that I know about, that has done this...this year. 158rg 9mm ammo is for blowback carbines and submachine guns. No pistol, or pistol suppressor with a booster was made/designed for the torque/pressure/recoil whatever you want to call it of that ammo. That stuff will tear up the insides of an MP5 too. 158gr 9mm ammo is great in a suppressed UZI, STEN, MAC, etc. but you will ruin a locking action pistol with that stuff. I'm sure Kel or PhD will be along soon, and recommend no one use 158gr 9mm in a locking pistol, or a boosted suppressor - or, they may tell me I'm wrong. Either way, I don't recommend it. Beats me, seems like lots of other folks use it in pistols with no problems. http://www.silencerforum.com/forum/showthread.php/257-Looking-for-9mm-Subsonic-Ammo/page2 http://www.silencerforum.com/forum/showthread.php/606-9mm-Subsonic-ammo-SOUND-TEST-quot-shoot-out-quot "FIRST PLACE: FIOCCHI 158 GR SUBSONIC The Fiocchis 158 Gr was the quietest 9mm subsonic round at the shooter's ear, measuring only 125db. It was also the only round that was consistently quieter "at the ear" than it was "at the muzzle" (the sound wave analysis clearly shows the "at the ear" sound wave peaking well below the reading "at the muzzle"). The Fiocchi had a deep "thumpy" tone and was very pleasing to the ear. It cycled our Glock 17 / Ti-Rant 9 combo very well - we had no malfunctions." |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 4:00:31 PM EDT
[#26]
Tag for edjamacation
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Posted: 6/28/2012 4:07:24 PM EDT
[#27]
As I stated in the first post, let's not pass judgement until Gemtech has a chance to look at it and diagnose. However I don't feel as if the 158gr ammo was the culprit.
http://www.silencerforum.com/forum/showthread.php/1112-Multimount-New-version/page4 "Just curious. I have an LRM169 and the manual states not to use ammo above 124GR in weight. Does the Multimount have the same warning or is 147GR and 158GR OK to run through it?" "No such restrictions apply to the MultiMount (I shoot 158gr through ours all the time)." In Gemtech industry forum on another webpage, now granted it's not Kel or Gemtec responding to the question..... |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 4:08:52 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
That sucks but I'm sure they'll take care of it. If it were me, I would have probably laughed my ass off when it went flying downrange. I call BS on laughing your ass off. Maybe, just maybe later on down the road, but not right away. I would be PISSED! OP, yours isnt the first one I have heard this happening too. Not sure how the others played out though. Good luck. Maybe if I was out hunting and it screwed up a video I might be irritated but just out shooting and it blew up and went flying? I would be like, "Holy shit! Did you see that? Did you see how far that thing went flying? WTF just happened? "
Life is short, I don't sweat the small stuff. Shit breaks, it's not worth crying over. |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 4:28:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
2 rounds? that can has seen more than 2 rounds through it imho Thats what I was thinking....a load more.. |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 5:23:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That sucks but I'm sure they'll take care of it. If it were me, I would have probably laughed my ass off when it went flying downrange. I call BS on laughing your ass off. Maybe, just maybe later on down the road, but not right away. I would be PISSED! OP, yours isnt the first one I have heard this happening too. Not sure how the others played out though. Good luck. Maybe if I was out hunting and it screwed up a video I might be irritated but just out shooting and it blew up and went flying? I would be like, "Holy shit! Did you see that? Did you see how far that thing went flying? WTF just happened? "
Life is short, I don't sweat the small stuff. Shit breaks, it's not worth crying over. I can see what you are saying. I was watching a friend shoot my P32 when this happened. 
I LOL'ed. I was counting rounds too, so I knew the gun was empty and the was no chance of a second bullet being shot into this one. Of course, I don't think I will be as cool if something similar were to happen to my trust's Isis-2 9mm, after I finally get to take it home. |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 5:27:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
158gr out of a pistol? Isn't there a note on the box to only shoot that ammo through carbines/subguns? 147gr ammo and the can would still be in one piece I'd bet. I was thinking the exact same thing. 158gr 9mm out of a handgun is bad juju. |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 5:33:09 PM EDT
[#32]
I have shot 1000s of rounds of 158gr through my p226 and osprey without any problems. Its the only 9mm I buy anymore, I will continue to use it. This is the third gemtech can I have seen with the exact same failure in the last couple of months. Obviously something is seriously wrong with gemtechs design.
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Posted: 6/28/2012 5:40:38 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: 158rg 9mm ammo is for blowback carbines and submachine guns. No pistol, or pistol suppressor with a booster was made/designed for the torque/pressure/recoil whatever you want to call it of that ammo. That stuff will tear up the insides of an MP5 too. 158gr 9mm ammo is great in a suppressed UZI, STEN, MAC, etc. but you will ruin a locking action pistol with that stuff. I'm sure Kel or PhD will be along soon, and recommend no one use 158gr 9mm in a locking pistol, or a boosted suppressor - or, they may tell me I'm wrong. Either way, I don't recommend it. Smaller powder charge, slower bullet, so lower slide velocity. So it's easier on the baffles and not as violent on the booster. Sounds real dangerous. Maybe it's just dangerous for shoddy can designs. Maybe the best bullet weight for cans of certain manufacture is 0 grains |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 6:01:50 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: I have shot 1000s of rounds of 158gr through my p226 and osprey without any problems. Its the only 9mm I buy anymore, I will continue to use it. This is the third gemtech can I have seen with the exact same failure in the last couple of months. Obviously something is seriously wrong with gemtechs design.  that ain't good news |
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Posted: 6/28/2012 6:20:26 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
I can see what you are saying. I was watching a friend shoot my P32 when this happened. http://jggunsmith.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/keltec-p32-2-rs.jpg I LOL'ed. I was counting rounds too, so I knew the gun was empty and the was no chance of a second bullet being shot into this one. That is the funniest picture I've seen today. The bullet just barely peeking out of the barrel is funny as hell. That reminds me of when I saw some black powder cap and ball revolvers on sale in the bargain cave at Cabelas for $100. I bought two of them, one for me and one for my best friend for black powder season up in Oklahoma. I'd never had a black powder revolver and neither had he so when he asked me how much powder to load I told him I had no idea. So he "researched" it and one day he said he wanted to go test fire his. We got out there and he started loading it up with something like 10 grains of powder. I told him that I didn't think that was enough but he was adamant about reading that you should start with that much and work your way up. I said, "Ok" then just stood back and watched. From about 15 feet I don't think the ball even made it to the target. It barely made it out of the barrel and bounced a few times in the dirt before disappearing in the grass. I almost passed out I was laughing at him so hard. 
Of course, I don't think I will be as cool if something similar were to happen to my trust's Isis-2 9mm, after I finally get to take it home.
I've got several suppressors and a few more on the way so if I break one, I'll just use another one.
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Posted: 6/28/2012 11:55:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Wow! I have never seen that before, makes me want to check my Multimount before I take it to the range again.
Would be curious to see what Gemtech says. PS - @BigBore - I have shot a good couple hundred rounds of Fiocchi 158gr as well as a hundred rounds of AWC 158gr without issue with a Glock 17 and Multimount. |
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Posted: 6/29/2012 2:34:57 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:something is seriously wrong with gemtechs design.
The wall thickness where the threads are is too thin. |
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Posted: 6/29/2012 4:47:42 AM EDT
[#38]
I don't know where you guys are getting this "ZOMG 158gr ammo isn't for pistols!!!!" stuff but it's patently BS.
We're not talking about he old IMI blue tip, here. |
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Posted: 6/29/2012 7:53:44 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Of course, I don't think I will be as cool if something similar were to happen to my trust's Isis-2 9mm, after I finally get to take it home.
I've got several suppressors and a few more on the way so if I break one, I'll just use another one. The will be my first. I plan on babying it, while shooting the hell out of it. If that makes any sense... |
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Posted: 6/29/2012 9:03:31 AM EDT
[#40]
Gooch,
We appreciate your contacting us and giving us the opportunity to examine the suppressor. Since it's impossible to 'diagnose the patient until he's sitting on the table', we look forward to evaluating the issue, and most importantly - whatever the cause was - working together to make sure you're taken care of 100%, and back up and running with a proper GEMTECH product as quickly as we are able. Regards, Kel GEMTECH |
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Posted: 6/29/2012 9:10:52 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Gooch, We appreciate your contacting us and giving us the opportunity to examine the suppressor. Since it's impossible to 'diagnose the patient until he's sitting on the table', we look forward to evaluating the issue, and most importantly - whatever the cause was - working together to make sure you're taken care of 100%, and back up and running with a proper GEMTECH product as quickly as we are able. Regards, Kel GEMTECH Kel, The can was shipped today via UPS Next Day Air, it should be there Monday morning. I'm looking forward to Gemtech's diagnosis. |
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Posted: 6/29/2012 9:14:31 AM EDT
[#42]
I am watching this thread as I really want a multimount.
Did the break occur where a weld is located? Or is it on the top of the threaded section on the front? |
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Posted: 6/29/2012 9:23:38 AM EDT
[#43]
Hope all ends well. Confident it will.
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Posted: 6/29/2012 4:13:15 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Gooch, We appreciate your contacting us and giving us the opportunity to examine the suppressor. Since it's impossible to 'diagnose the patient until he's sitting on the table', we look forward to evaluating the issue, and most importantly - whatever the cause was - working together to make sure you're taken care of 100%, and back up and running with a proper GEMTECH product as quickly as we are able. Regards, Kel GEMTECH Kel, Since it was brought up and discussed in this thread, can you address whether or not 158g 9mm ammo is acceptable/approved/recommended/etc for Gemtech 9mm suppressors? |
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Posted: 6/29/2012 4:30:27 PM EDT
[#45]
Interesting failure.
My Multimount just shed a tear while reading this thread. I've also never heard that 158gr is not good for pistols. Ever. Anywhere. I'd be interested in actual numbers or science, not just speculation. |
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Posted: 6/29/2012 4:39:25 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Interesting failure. My Multimount just shed a tear while reading this thread. I've also never heard that 158gr is not good for pistols. Ever. Anywhere. I'd be interested in actual numbers or science, not just speculation. I haven't either and would be inclined to disregard except that it was bigbore who said it and I tend to value his opinion on such things. |
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Posted: 6/29/2012 5:48:12 PM EDT
[#47]
^^Bingo^^
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Posted: 6/29/2012 5:59:26 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Interesting failure. My Multimount just shed a tear while reading this thread. I've also never heard that 158gr is not good for pistols. Ever. Anywhere. I'd be interested in actual numbers or science, not just speculation. I haven't either and would be inclined to disregard except that it was bigbore who said it and I tend to value his opinion on such things. Same here. The Fiocchi 158's are a standard by which other subsonics are measured, Bryan (Major Malfunction) tested several sub loads for handguns and found them to be the quietest. They are widely accepted and highly regarded by members of Silencertalk and silencerforum as the best factory 9mm subsonic load. I personally have around 1000 rounds through 2 glock 17's with a Trident 9. Barrel hoods look fine, never an issue. I fail to see how a slightly longer, heavier bullet with no real appreciable difference in energy vs other 9mm loads (less than a lot of rounds, especially defensive 147's) will cause any damage, and this is the first I have ever heard of this. If it weren't for the fact that Steve was the one who said they were bad in handguns, I wouldn't even have acknowledged the comment. I am eager to hear more as I respect him and his vast knowledge a great deal. |
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Posted: 6/29/2012 6:06:53 PM EDT
[#49]
GEMTECH will make it right. I haven't used that ammo but have used Hertenberger with Gemtech cans in subguns without any issues and it's not recommended for handguns. I have out a few rounds of it through a suppressed Glock but don't make a habit of it since its not subsonic and really hot?
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Posted: 6/29/2012 6:32:15 PM EDT
[#50]
The last time 158gr 9mm ammo (IMI blue tip)was available about 1525yrs ago, it came with a disclaimer to not use it in pistols, and was known to make a mess of MP5s. That ammo spits out of a 10" barrel around 1025fps. I haven't chronyed any blue tip in years, so that's old data, but a good reference of the limits for the load.
Friends who have been playing around with Fiocchi 158gr, are seeing an average 980fps from a 10" barrel. Those numbers were achieved over the winter, 40-50 degrees. We haven't had the chrony out yet this summer, but almost double the temp and the velocities are going to rise. You may be just fine with the 158s, and you may get a hot batch to rival the old IMI blue tip. Or, you can stick with 147s, and not worry about it. YMMV, but I too would love to hear if Kel recommends the use of 158gr 9mm in pistols. I'll compare the 2 side by side in a couple weeks, I have a bunch of IMI blue tip. I'll see how close/far apart they really are. |
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