I've been looking at the Vortex and Phantom flash hiders, and Iwas curious how much improved they are over the standard birdcage FH?  I realize that the Vortex is supposed to be the best, but how much better is it really?

I recently attended a Tac-rifle class in which we did an indoor "Night Shoot" by turning out the lights in indoor range.  

We compared all of our AR flash suppressors (6 different suppressors in all) and by far the Phantom won out on suppression.  Outstanding flash suppression using GI ammo.  It is my understanding that the Vortex is even more effective than the Phantom.

The only other FS that worked better was the GEMTECH Silencer in attendance, but those of course are not always feasible...

Plus with a Vortex or Phantom if you ever get into a REAL close situation I bet thrusting the FH into a BGs chest, twisting, then yanking would really make him sit up and take notice.

I have the Vortex.  I think it works very well.  using surplus I usually got a couple that produced a very small flash on a cloudy afternoon.  most of the time no flash at all. I have it on an m-4 with the 14.5 inch barrel.  anyone with a phantom want to compare?  I am in San antonio, TX.

As usual, I'm confused !

I normally think of a "flash-hider" as a cone-shaped device that does a pretty good job of hiding the flash from the shooter where a flash-suppressor makes someone out in front of you less likely to see your muzzle flash.

During the tests was it the shooter being protected from the flash or were you measuring how difficult it was for someone in front to see the flash ??

Sorry, I wasn't downrange looking at the flash signatures of each suppressor,  just off to the side 10'.

The rifles without any muzzle devices at all had HUGE muzzle flash coming out the end.

On an AR with 14.5" M4 barrel, Federal 55gr ammo, Vortex flash hider, shooting in the middle of the night:

The flash looked like a firecracker going off deep inside the barrel. It would probably be completely unnoticable 50ft away or so. Definately unseeable at normal combat ranges.

On a 16" HBAR with A2 compensator the flash is very visible and I'm sure would be enough to get your attention for several hundred yards even without any report.

On a 20" postban with no muzzle device at all there is a fireball that seems to be about the size of a basketball at the muzzle that extends for a couple of feet.


These observations are all completely unscientific and were only witnessed by myself and my best friend. No equipment was used to confirm our observations.

Quoted: Sorry, I wasn't downrange looking at the flash signatures of each suppressor,  just off to the side 10'. The rifles without any muzzle devices at all had HUGE muzzle flash coming out the end.

In the original post the words "flash hider" were used.  I was just trying to understand if the discussion was about a "hider" or a "suppressor" - think I've got it now.

Since I' getting ready to order a 'Vortex' flash-suppressor to go on my AR-180 flat-top upper I'll bet you guys can guess my recommendation !

I got a 16 inch bushy with just a plain barrel that doubles as a flame thrower.

personally I think its kinda cool, not condisive to combat but its just my fun-gun so. besides whats more intimidating that a flash of plasma the size of a basketball.

My 14.5" barrel with Phantom produced a little red/orange inside the suppressor, really hard to notice it with me shooting it from shoulder or hip position.  A2 suppressor/compensator with a 20" barrel produced a little more flash using the same ammo. Considering the length of the barrel, it's probably just the A2 may not have as much flash reduing capabilities built in, also it has to act as a compensator with a closed, slot-less bottom.
Nowhere did any of these rifles produce the fireball in the shape of a multi-pointed star as seen in movies.