Birdcage on a post ban

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Birdcage on a post ban

Posted: 1/29/2002 9:24:16 AM EDT

I want to use a birdcage flash suppressor on my post ban gun.
I can get a thumbhole stock from brownells.
If I cut the bayonnett lug off the upper will my gun be legal?
What do you think about using a dremmel tool to do the cutting?

Posted: 1/29/2002 9:30:58 AM EDT

[#1]

i could be wrong, but i dont think the thumbhole stock frees up the pistol grip "evil feature slot". in short, not legal.

Posted: 1/29/2002 9:40:43 AM EDT

[#2]

I don't know what Brownells is selling now, but at least one thumbhole that they used to sell was nixed by ATF as eliminating the pistol grip. If you just want to get the flash hider look, there are non-functional units on the market. Also, you cannot have usable threads on the barrel. Whatever unit you use has to be permanently attached over the threads.

Yes, a Dremel is fine for removing the bayo lug. Put the barrel in a vise and use both hands on the Dremel. Don't let it dance around on you.

Don

Posted: 1/29/2002 9:41:25 AM EDT

[#3]

Besides that, what does a bayolug do on a postban barrel. Aren't these supposed to be just crowned and don't have a bayolug at all.

Anyway you might want to consider Kurt's Kustom for a fake A2 compensator. It is my understanding that these look like the A2 birdcage flashhider but are classified as compensator.

Even though military manuals refer to the birdcage hider as "compensator" BATF does not for it's supposed riflegrenade firing ability.

Posted: 1/29/2002 9:58:49 AM EDT

[#4]

I actually want to suppress the muzzle flash.
Was the nixed stock plastic or wood?

Posted: 1/29/2002 10:02:30 AM EDT

[#5]

Your best bet is a Kurt's A2 Tac Brake. Then Wilson's Brake is also good but not as cool. You could fix the mag so that tools are required to remove it, but that's the least cool. Or... you can just call it a gov issue A2 a compensator just like our own military does and leave it the way that it is. Just don't rob any banks with it and it shouldn't be an issue. Do the one that you feel is right for you.

Posted: 1/29/2002 10:09:13 AM EDT

[#6]

What the hell is a rifle fired grenade anyway?!?! I thought those were last used early in Vietnam? Isn't the M203 the only thing used now?

Posted: 1/29/2002 10:10:21 AM EDT

[#7]

The nixed stock was really an A2 setup with a rod running from in front of the sling swivel to the bottom of the piston grip. Sort of a poor man's Dragunov. IIRC, the manufacturer was billing them as the solution to the protruding pistol grip being the one allowable feature.

There are other thumbhole designs around, but I have never heard of any of them being accepted by ATF. ATF really wants to hold on to the protruding pistol grip thing.

Don

Posted: 1/29/2002 10:12:23 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
I actually want to suppress the muzzle flash.
Was the nixed stock plastic or wood?

You want a flash suppressor?
Buy a pre-ban.

Some problems in life are so simple.

Posted: 1/29/2002 10:18:55 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
What the hell is a rifle fired grenade anyway?!?! I thought those were last used early in Vietnam? Isn't the M203 the only thing used now?

Well, there's the Brunswick RAW which packs a bit more punch than a 203 (2.7 lbs of explosive), though I don't know if its ever gained much acceptance.

Posted: 1/29/2002 1:56:09 PM EDT

[#10]

308wood,

Any money you save going this route will likely be eaten by legal fees. Why don't you just buy a preban or wait for the AWB sunset?

Posted: 1/29/2002 2:05:52 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
308wood,

Any money you save going this route will likely be eaten by legal fees. Why don't you just buy a preban or wait for the AWB sunset?

You mean postban right?

Posted: 1/29/2002 2:12:39 PM EDT

[#12]

I think you can. Remember you are only allowed one evil feature on a post ban gun. Most opt for the pistol grip, meaning no flash suppressor or bayo lug. But you can go for the other ones. For example the M-1A can still have the flash suppressor because there is no pistol grip, and no bayo lug. If you have a fixed magazine you can have all three, pistol grip, bayo lug, and flash hider. I'm pretty sure all these laws pertain to rifles with detachable magazines. But check it out just to make sure, don't take any advice from us as the gospel, because your rights are riding on it being correct, you don't want to risk a mistake.

ROCK ON!

Posted: 1/29/2002 3:01:38 PM EDT

[#13]

I think as long as you permanently attach the birdcage and remove the bayonet lug, you should be OK.
Like 7_62Gunner said, Post ban M1A's have a flash suppressor, but no pistol grip.

www.brownells.com is an excellent place to shop.

Posted: 1/29/2002 3:59:41 PM EDT

[#14]

Not legal

While a thumbhole stock is not considered a pistol grip under the '89 Import Ban revisions, a thumbhole IS considered a pistol grip under the 1994 Krime Bill.

In order to legally install a flash suppressor on a post-ban AR, you'd need to remove your existing "evil feature" (the pistol grip), AND the flash suppressor must not be within 2mm of 22mm in diameter. 22mm diameter muzzle devices are considered to be grenade launchers.

-Troy

Posted: 1/29/2002 4:01:13 PM EDT

[#15]

What is NOT clear, however, is if can one get away with a thumbhole stock and a flashhider. Better check it out.

Schapman43, I meant preban. It's a moot point with a preban since the flashhider would be perfectly legal.

Posted: 1/29/2002 4:02:22 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
What the hell is a rifle fired grenade anyway?!?! I thought those were last used early in Vietnam? Isn't the M203 the only thing used now?

While the M203 is preferred by the US and England, most NATO countries still use muzzle-launched rifle grenades. For this reason, muzzle devices were standardized in the late 50's to be 22mm in diameter, so that these grenades would be interchangable.

-Troy

Posted: 1/29/2002 6:02:50 PM EDT

[#17]

Why would the birdcage need to be permanantly attached? If you lose the pistol grip, you have no 'evil' features, so you can add one back. A "flash supressor or threaded barrel capable of receiving a flash supressor" counts as one feature. Why not just have a threaded barrel? Then you could attach a flash supressor, compensator, sound supressor, or whatever you want. The reason that postbans with muzzle brakes must have them permanantly attached is to remove the possibility of a flash supressor. (Because you know how many people have been slaughtered by flash supressors over the years

)

This is taken from the '94 Krime Bill. Is there some other legislation I'm forgetting that would make a threaded barrel verboten?

Posted: 1/29/2002 6:16:51 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Why would the birdcage need to be permanantly attached?

It would not have to be permanently attached, provided it was the only evil feature. As you state, having threads and/or a flash suppressor is still only one evil item.

Note again that you cannot use a standard 22mm FS, which ALSO counts as a grenade launcher. You could install a custom 24mm FS and you'd be fine.

-Troy

Posted: 1/29/2002 7:23:14 PM EDT

[#19]

My previous posting about "permanent attachment" wasn't too clear. I meant to say that a fake flash hider or a muzzle brake, when mounted on a threaded muzzle for post-ban use must be permanently affixed.

An interesting question - if you chose to fire your AR with no handgrip, leaving it off and removing any means of attachment for a handgrip, does anyone out there think ATF would buy it?

Posted: 1/30/2002 12:35:56 AM EDT

[#20]

Sure, no problem. Of course, the AR is a crappy gun platform if you don't have a pistol grip on it.

-Troy

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Birdcage on a post ban

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