I will let you guys in on a little secret.  Not too many people know about this, so pass it on.

When you go to Wal Mart and see someone drooling over one of their guns, laugh at them.  Wal Mart guns are SECONDS!  Thats right.  Manufacturer defect, scratch and ding, yadda yadda.  If you look close around the gun counter, you will see a sign that says "No returns or exchanges on guns".  That is why.  Too many people were swapping guns out until they got good ones.  One guy I know, before the no exchange rule tried 5 mini-14's and all had the same defect, which would cause it to jam every three or four shots and FTF.

That is why Wal Mart guns are soo cheap.  No warranty manufacturer seconds.  Get a gun from a dealer instead, even if you have to pay a little extra.  With a Wally World gun, you buy it, walk out of the store, and the barrel falls off, you are fuked.

I went to wally world and bought me a ruger 10/22 stainless/synthetic for about 150 bucks... i've shot over 5000 rounds thru it with only about 10 jams... and i've only had it for like a year... to tell you the truth i've only cleaned this gun like twice since then its been real good to me too... I guess it depends on getting a good gun at the right time...

I have bought three guns at  WalMart.  I got a Winchester Mod. 70 7mm and it shoots great. I do not consider myself a great shot, but at 200y with the 3-9X32 scope that came on it, I can hit a golfball every shot.

Winchester 30-30 also works great.

Winchester 20Ga. works great, but the first time I took it to shoot clays the sight bead fell off.  I called Winchester a they mailed me a new on free.  

i freaked when i saw berettas and O/U shotguns and wally world.

I am dead serious.

I have a friend who works there, and a gun smith who used to work there.  I'm not making it up.

Try checking into it.  I thought it was BS too, but not anymore.  How do you think they get the prices so cheap?  Love? LOL!

I'm not saying they are gonna self implode when you get them home, but they are seconds.  Don't you think they would come with a warranty if they weren't?

No warranty from the manufacturers?  I am not claiming to know, but I thought the marts volume buying was the key to their pricing.  (How many Model 700, 870, 11-87, etc. do they purchase at a time).  I am curious now and will check on the warranty claim tomorrow at a nearby Wallyworld.

Service sucks at Walmart.  Go to a real gunshop...no not Dick's, they are better than Walamrt on service, but not by much.  

I have a couple local shops that I give most of my business.  I rarely buy new guns anyway.  

OSA

Quoted: I am dead serious. I have a friend who works there, and a gun smith who used to work there.  I'm not making it up. Try checking into it.  I thought it was BS too, but not anymore.  How do you think they get the prices so cheap?  Love? LOL! I'm not saying they are gonna self implode when you get them home, but they are seconds.  Don't you think they would come with a warranty if they weren't?

We need a B.S. animation. Maybe a cartoon bull making a steaming pile of B.S. Something like your information.

What about the catalog behind the counter for ordering in a gun they don't have?  

Is it even possible to supply that many seconds?  I mean, think about it.  If WalMart piled their entire collective stock of guns together.....That's a lot of f*ck-ups!

I do believe Monel's eyes are brown because he is certainly full of SH*T!!! ALL firearms sold at walmart are new and come with factory warranty!!! I have bought a marlin .22 auto, remington 1100 and they had all the same nice paperwork, owners manual, factory warranty registration card with them. Hey if the local gunshop(which here he is a complete moron!) can't sell me a rem1100 synthetic for $325 then I'm buying at walmart!!! If you would like to spend a extra $100 on a gun a "shop" you go right ahead. I'm taking the money i save to buy another firearm(ar15 to be exact). Sorry to bust the local dealer's balls but hey its common sense I'll buy where the price is right for the same exact item! ITS AGAINST THE LAW TO SELL USED< FACTORY SECONDS WITHOUT MARKING AS SUCH!!! However winchester shotgun shells at walmart ARE different than ones found at gun shops. LOOK AT THE BOX ONLY 7/8 oz. load. YOU get what you pay for 7/8 oz of lead not 1 1/4 field load. Winchester makes them under contract for walmart.

Let's try this basic math.
X number of WalMarts
Y number of firearms models per WalMart
Z number of each model per WalMart in store stock
add the XX number of each at regional distribution centers
How many seconds can that add up to?

I always insist on completely checking the weapon BEFORE I leave the store. I unscrew chokes, remove barrels (shotguns of course), take bolts out, inspect chambers and field strip the weapon as much as possible. They can huff and puff all they want, but they can't stop you from inpspecting the merchandise when they have a no return policy.

I think 99 percent of their no return policy has to do with them not wanting to fool with the ATF paperwork.

Good Shooting
RED

Quoted: It could go either way some manufactures make speacial runs for the marts.  But, A walmart gun is usually good enough for a walmart shopper.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA..... good one.... Last time I was at a Walmart (trust me.. I'm not a frequent shopper) I saw a lady with her hair done up all nice, some nice leather purse, jewelry (maybe from Walmart ) and she was dressed head to toe in Mossy Oak. I couldn't help but laugh.... talk about a fashion don't!

FWIW - They do have decent prices on Ruger 10/22's. And it's pretty hard to go wrong with a 10/22

Quoted: I am dead serious. I have a friend who works there, and a gun smith who used to work there.  I'm not making it up. Try checking into it.  I thought it was BS too, but not anymore.  How do you think they get the prices so cheap?  Love? LOL! I'm not saying they are gonna self implode when you get them home, but they are seconds.  Don't you think they would come with a warranty if they weren't?

This is total BS. I recently got a Beretta AL390 Synthetic from Walmart. $529. The way Walmart was able to get such a low price was.
(1) Bulk purchase from Beretta.
(2) This is 'last years' model, no longer available directly from Beretta. Beretta now is selling the 'improved' AL391.

The only corners they cut were:

No sling swivels were provided.
No extra shims for adjusting drop/cast
Parkerized finish but no stipling on the top of the rib. (You are not supposed to be looking at the rib anyway, remember?)

all other points aside, here's some things to think about.

first, walmart isn't the only gun retailer that doesn't allow returns/refunds.  i've seen more than one "shop" retailer with the same sign.  think about it:  there are too many reasons for not taking back a product such as a firearm after it's left your store.

second, no firearms manufacturer in the world is going to hang their reputation on a bunch of "defective" firearms.  because when push comes to shove, any defect that caused serious injury or death isn't going to be solved at walmart anyway.  the consumer is going straight to the manufacturer.

third, with all the groups out there lobbying to have firearms considered defective simply because they can kill (even though they be in perfectly proper working order), don't you think they'd be jumping all over walmart for selling such defective merchandise?

fourth, walmart probably doesn't want the stigma of selling second-rate merchandise either.

fifth, what would that make the firearms that KMart sold be?  third rate?  extremely defective?  blow the receiver up in the first shot?

Quoted: all other points aside, here's some things to think about. first, walmart isn't the only gun retailer that doesn't allow returns/refunds.  i've seen more than one "shop" retailer with the same sign.  think about it:  there are too many reasons for not taking back a product such as a firearm after it's left your store. second, no firearms manufacturer in the world is going to hang their reputation on a bunch of "defective" firearms.  because when push comes to shove, any defect that caused serious injury or death isn't going to be solved at walmart anyway.  the consumer is going straight to the manufacturer. third, with all the groups out there lobbying to have firearms considered defective simply because they can kill (even though they be in perfectly proper working order), don't you think they'd be jumping all over walmart for selling such defective merchandise? fourth, walmart probably doesn't want the stigma of selling second-rate merchandise either. fifth, what would that make the firearms that KMart sold be?  third rate?  extremely defective?  blow the receiver up in the first shot?

Exactly. Gun companies would have to stock 2 sets of parts. The good parts for their 'real' guns and the monkey-metal-parts for the Walmart ones

Quoted: all other points aside, here's some things to think about. first, walmart isn't the only gun retailer that doesn't allow returns/refunds.  i've seen more than one "shop" retailer with the same sign.  think about it:  there are too many reasons for not taking back a product such as a firearm after it's left your store. second, no firearms manufacturer in the world is going to hang their reputation on a bunch of "defective" firearms.  because when push comes to shove, any defect that caused serious injury or death isn't going to be solved at walmart anyway.  the consumer is going straight to the manufacturer. third, with all the groups out there lobbying to have firearms considered defective simply because they can kill (even though they be in perfectly proper working order), don't you think they'd be jumping all over walmart for selling such defective merchandise? fourth, walmart probably doesn't want the stigma of selling second-rate merchandise either. fifth, what would that make the firearms that KMart sold be?  third rate?  extremely defective?  blow the receiver up in the first shot?

Well said ARLady.

Quoted: What will you do when your local dealer goes out of business because everyone buys at WalMart?  Where will you get your next AR15, Glock, or HK? -Troy

i get your point, but i doubt that a gun dealer is going to go out of business simply because walmart sells guns for less money.  as you mentioned, walmart is extremely limited in the choices available to consumers.  there are more guns that walmart DOESN'T sell than those that they DO.  this alone is going to keep a good gun dealer in business.

let's face it:  you can't get much more than a .22 rifle, a shotgun, or maybe a deer hunting rifle at walmart.  that leaves a big huge chunk of the market (military type rifles, milsurp, and all of the handguns) to the other gun dealers.

Quoted: I will let you guys in on a little secret.  Not too many people know about this, so pass it on. When you go to Wal Mart and see someone drooling over one of their guns, laugh at them.  Wal Mart guns are SECONDS!  Thats right.  Manufacturer defect, scratch and ding, yadda yadda.  If you look close around the gun counter, you will see a sign that says "No returns or exchanges on guns".  That is why.  Too many people were swapping guns out until they got good ones.  One guy I know, before the no exchange rule tried 5 mini-14's and all had the same defect, which would cause it to jam every three or four shots and FTF. That is why Wal Mart guns are soo cheap.  No warranty manufacturer seconds.  Get a gun from a dealer instead, even if you have to pay a little extra.  With a Wally World gun, you buy it, walk out of the store, and the barrel falls off, you are fuked.

Okay, I just called a WalMart and spoke with the Assistant Manager on duty.  All firearms sold by WalMart are covered by the applicable factory warranty.
I am not suggesting you shop at WalMart instead of a gun shop.  I agree it is important to support you local dealer, but let's try to keep it real here.  Okay?

I have the same Winchester model 70 black shadow but in 30-06 and it is by no means a "second".  After about 10 hours at the range and many hadloads, I have it shooting .625 moa all day.  The scope isn't the best if it is still a simmons but you can put it on a 22 though.  Go for it!

Keving67

Reading all this and I couldnt help but chime in.  There for a while I took EVERY extra 140 bucks I came across and bought a 10/22.  I must have bought like 6 of 'em last year.  And never had a probelem with one yet!  Gripe all you want about what happened to "your friends" or "a guy that your wifes girlfriend knows" gun.  I'll stick with a well inspected Trusted wal-mart gun.

We need a B.S. animation. Maybe a cartoon bull making a steaming pile of B.S. Something like your information.

By the way Sukebe...I threw together a quick b.s. animation

my $.02

I honestly don't know if WalMart sells seconds as first quality, but I strongly suspect that this would be a serious case of fraud that would be dealt with seriously by consumer advocates.  It would not be a good scene for WalMart, and I cannot think that they would do this.

From what I know of WalMart's buying policy, their policy towards suppliers is basically this:  "If you want to market your products through WalMart, you must show us the exact amount of profit of every item that we will retail."  

Companies like WalMart are in a way great for consumers, and I guess they do foster competition, but they are naturally going to beat the piss out of the small dealer that I would rather spend a little more of my coing supporting.  I mean, if the guy is clearly gouging, that is one thing, but a fellow should be able to at least make 10% over retail.  

The company I worked for bent over backwards to make Home Depot happy.  We probably wouldn't have been quite so eager to please with a smaller retailer.  Just the way things go I guess.

Volume & Predatory Pricing.  More so the latter.

Its how they kill the competition.

Hmm... I don't know about the WalMarts down there, but the WalMarts up here in Alaska sell alot of guns, and handguns. Glocks, USPs, you name it. Pretty much everything except 4.7mm caseless <G>

Quoted: I will let you guys in on a little secret.  Not too many people know about this, so pass it on. When you go to Wal Mart and see someone drooling over one of their guns, laugh at them.  Wal Mart guns are SECONDS!  Thats right.  Manufacturer defect, scratch and ding, yadda yadda.  If you look close around the gun counter, you will see a sign that says "No returns or exchanges on guns".  That is why.  Too many people were swapping guns out until they got good ones.  One guy I know, before the no exchange rule tried 5 mini-14's and all had the same defect, which would cause it to jam every three or four shots and FTF. That is why Wal Mart guns are soo cheap.  No warranty manufacturer seconds.  Get a gun from a dealer instead, even if you have to pay a little extra.  With a Wally World gun, you buy it, walk out of the store, and the barrel falls off, you are fuked.

I used to work at Wal-Mart in the Sporting Goods Dept when I was in high school.  The guns are not "manufacturer seconds".  They may be the lower end guns but they are not seconds or defectives in any way.  Do you actually think the firearm manufacturer's all get together and say "Hey, let's all send Wal_Mart all of our defective guns."?  Just think, if they didn't have the "No Returns or Exchanges" sign, someone could walk in, buy a rifle, shotgun, whatever, use it to commit a crime, then go back and get their money back or a new firearm.

They buy in bulk, no question about it.
Example: My local Walmart had Remington Premier 11-87 20 Ga. for 599.99, Local dealer had the same thing for 639.99, and I have a wholesale catalog that shows the price at 545.00
Called the local dealer, a nice bunch of guys, and a very politically active gun shop, (vote Bush, join NRA ect.) and ask him if he could come close, (I did not insist he match it, just give a little) he came down to 609.00, so I bought 2 of them.
I love the place, and their political activism, and their attitude, and I have been in retail all my life, and would give my business to a good independant dealer anyday over the Marts.
And yes, I did say a GOOD independant dealer.
Some other shops I have been into, I wouldn't give the time of day.

Shop at Johnson's in Adrian, Mi...They ROCK!

Lance, in Mi

I got jumped on the other day because I said I buy 10/22s and all my cheap .22LR blasting ammo at WalMart. I got an ear full about how I would drive the local shop out of business by not buying their Ruger and .22 ammo.

When the local dealer sells 10/22s for almost $200 and WalMart has them on sale for $129.99 I think it is an obvious choice. I spend a lot of money at the local shops, but sometimes you would be an idiot not to buy stuff at someplace else, or maybe you just have too much money.

I have attempted to sell Walmart in the past. It is true that you sometimes have to make a "Walmart" Model in order to get the price down for them to buy it. Maybe the same with guns. However I have no experience there. I don't shop there for that reason. Plus I don't want to be "Hooked UP".

Originally posted by Green_Furniture Yep Kevin, sounds like the exact same rifle/scope combo I'm looking at. .625 MOA? SOLD! What kind of tinkering did you have to do?

I had the barrel and actions cryo accurized which cut my groups almost in half and had a fox river muzzle break installed.  I also bought myself some quality reloading components and some speer match 168 gr bullets.  Wonderful combination.  

Keving67

Quoted: We need a B.S. animation. Maybe a cartoon bull making a steaming pile of B.S. Something like your information. By the way Sukebe...I threw together a quick b.s. animation my $.02

The most well spent $.02 in this thread.

We should tie this thread to the thread about best price for a 10/22.  

one guy I know,before the exchange rule tried 5 mini-14's and all had the same defect,which would cause it to jam every 3 or 4 shots and FTF.

Thats not Wal-marts fault,FYI all mini-14's have that same defect because they are POS, IMO.
Tom

Quoted: Thats not Wal-marts fault,FYI all mini-14's have that same defect because they are POS, IMO. Tom

Not mine. It'll empty a 30rd mag in less than 3 seconds with nary a jam. Albeit using $100 magazines.

While we are on the subject of WallyWorld I was there the other day to pick up some speaker wire and went back to the gun counter (because that's where they have their gun magazines) and I overheard the guy behind the counter talking with someone buying an 870 that Wal-Mart is going to start carrying pistols nation wide. Has anyone else heard this, I have a hard time beleiving it but thought I would throw it out there.

The first real job I had was working for a distributer for a chain of stores similar to Wal or K Mart.  I worked in the gun department (Wheee!) and we shipped to about sixty of the chain stores and several hundred assorted other FFL's.  Every fall the trucks from Marlin, Winchester, Remington and Savage would come rolling in, some stacked from nose to tail with boxes of rifles.  We even carried the S&W 916 shotguns, now there's a POS for ya.  Serial number check in was Hell! Then we had to break down the stacks, repackage, log serial #'s and ship.  I won't even go into ammo shippin and receiving.

Then that winter the "defects" would come rolling in.  Example: Tag states "Rifle jammed" we found a .22 mag jammed in the action of a Marlin Mdl. 60!  Tag states "Shotgun won't kill squirrels" or "Rifle missed deer".
We sent these back to the Mfg and upon return they were sold as "repaired" to Ma and Pa type FFl's not the chain store.  

I was giving the tour to a prospective customer one day and he says "Everyone knows that #chainstore# sells factory seconds"  I pointed to a six foot tall stack of Marlin M336 30-30 rifles and said "Those are where they come from if you or the chain store orders, I don't have time or space to sort or inventory seconds".  And that's probably how the business still works. Best line I heard was from a new FFL who wanted to know where the CO2 cartridge went in them new fangled gas operated shotguns!

I have been told by more than one Remington factory rep that all rifles coming off their lines are equal in quality. As the others say, NO mfgr will risk the rep or danger of selling seconds. Wally World buys by the trailer full, thus the savings. I, however, buy gunshows or local dealers.

I am a firm believer in capitalism. It works ever single time it's tried anywhere in the world. Therefore, my opinion is that if you want to buy from Wal-Mart, then that's JUST FINE. Some people will always buy from Wal-Mart. Some will always buy from a Mom & Pop store. Some will buy it where ever they find it. The point is that if people are making purchases, then the gun industry will survive, because capitalism works !



FWIW, I am more likely to buy from a small shop than from Wal-Mart, mostly because I prefer the service, knowledge, etc.

For all you Arizonans out there, let me recommend "The Pistol Parlour" in Mesa at Country Club and Southern. It's a great store, with great prices.

Damn didn't know wally world would order guns for you.
I am all for supporting the family businesses b/c both my parents owned their own companies only to have a few shut down due to the big boy corporations moving in. BUT the gunshops in and around sh@thole gainesville, fl are freaking absurd- 75 dollars for a transfer(title one not class 3), 700 dollar glocks, and 550 -600 sar-1's . Plus they treat you pretty shitty around here too.

With their volume it may very well be possible that the firearms at Walmart are not "seconds" so to speak but possibly made to Walmart specifications.

Federal sells shotgun ammo exclusively to Walmart and no other dealer or distributor can buy it. These are "Promotional loads that use softer shot and a two peice wad.
the hulls are good for maybe one or two reloads, most other hulls are good for 12 or so from my experience.

If they are buying 10,000 models then it would be feasible for the manufacturer to retool, use those same tools longer due to lowered specs or use a different grade stock to keep costs low much the same as they do the shotgun shells.


Compare the rifle or shotgun you are about to buy at Walmart with one at a gunshop and see if it is indeed equally made.

Wal Mart tends to carry the most popular and less-expensive models (which is simply in keeping with their volume purchasing strategy).  And as we all know, most all of the firearms manufacturer's make lesser quality firearms for budget-minded consumers most of which may end up being sold by the Wal-Marts of the world (REM 870 Express, Win Model 70 Black Shadow, 10/22's etc).

However, I know for a fact that if Remington or Browning makes it, you can order it through a Wal-Mart. (Winchester is a maybe, since I've never ordered a Winchester from a Wal-Mart, but with Winchester and Browning both being USRAC, I don't see why you couldn't).  I once ORDERED a Browning A-bolt through a Wal-Mart.  It cost me about $50 less than the local 'exclusive' dealer (who was really hacked off at Browning by my purchase when I took the gun to him for bases and rings.  As a matter of fact, he told me that he didn't know why he was a Browning 'exclusive' dealer when anybody could get the same rifle from the local Wal-Mart cheaper than he could sell it.  That A-bolt turned out to be a fine shooting rifle BTW).  Which in turn leads to the myth of Wal-Mart's firearms being seconds.

One of my friends, who is an avid sportsman and also happens to be a Wal Mart super center manager, called me once to let me know of a shipment of Remington shotguns that were arriving (I wanted pick of the litter), but I didn't see what I wanted, and asked about ordering.  He showed me HIS catalog which included shotguns and configurations that I didn't even know Remington made - all available to order (but not at the same discount as the original shipment).  (How could all of these be seconds)?  As for warranty - same as if you bought it from A. "Gun" Smith.  And as for returns, Wal-Mart charges the manufacturer (sometimes as much asa 10%) for EVERY return.  So why would a reputable co. knowlingy send Wal-Mart faulty goods only to have them returned UNDER WARRANTY and have to pay off Wal-Mart for their trouble to boot?

It seems that the presence of a local Wally World adds a bit of unwelcome competition to the 'exclusive' dealer's world that most consumers don't know exists.  NEVER pay MSRP for anything!  That's a crock invented by Harvard marketing majors to make the average Joe seem like he is really saving money.  

However, to defend the local gunsmith/broker, I now have a great relationship with a local gunbroker/smith that gets me the best price (no need to order from Wally World anymore) due to the amount of business that I do with him.  I can order a gun, if I don't like the way it looks or feels, back on the shelf in his place or back on the UPS truck it goes.  Most FFL firearm purchases are made through regional distributors (here is another place where the money is made).  If you have a good relationship with your gunsmith/broker (you buy alot of stuff from them) who in turn has a good relationship (volume-wise) with a distributor chances are you'll see that reflected in his price versus that thing they call MSRP.  One can't expect to get Wal-Mart prices the first time he buys a gun from someone he doesn't even know, especially if the seller is small time.  If your gun purchases or few - buy it at Wally World and forget about it.  If you're like me and really like guns, find a reputable dealer with whom you'll also find a great friend and source of information and advice that no Wal-Mart will ever be able to offer.