The GREEN TIPPED round!

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The GREEN TIPPED round!

Posted: 1/11/2002 4:46:46 AM EDT

I keep on seeing people mention the green tipped round. There is nothing special about it.

Here's what it is. It is a 5.56 FMJ (known as the SS109 or M855 in the military), 62 grains, with the tip painted green. It is painted green to differentiate it from the old military round, the M193 which was only 55 grains, FMJ.

The M855 shoots only well in the M16A2 (1/7 twist; military) or a 1/9 twist rifle (civilian). The M193, a lighter bullet shoots in both the M16A1 (1/12 twist) and A2 equally well.

One more thing, if you zero an M16A2 with one round, it will have to be re-zeroed for the other round. I personally shoot M193 (55 grains) in my 1/7 rifles because it is cheaper.

Posted: 1/11/2002 4:50:06 AM EDT

[#1]

I was under the impression that green tipped rounds had a steel core penetrator. Is that not the primary difference that adds the 9 grains of weight?

Posted: 1/11/2002 6:20:25 AM EDT

[#2]

There's an Ammunition section a bit further down the forum with descriptions and probably a FAQ.

SS109 doesn't have a green tip. M855 Ball does.

-- Chuck

Posted: 1/11/2002 6:46:15 AM EDT

[#3]

I have some ballistic 55gr. with green tips...wait, maybe they are orange...not too sure now that I think about it...

Posted: 1/11/2002 6:54:01 AM EDT

[#4]

The green tip indicates "Earth Friendly".Tell your treehugger friends this..

Meplat-

Posted: 1/11/2002 7:10:18 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
There's an Ammunition section a bit further down the forum with descriptions and probably a FAQ.

SS109 doesn't have a green tip. M855 Ball does.

-- Chuck

They are one and the same, M855 being the military designation.

Posted: 1/11/2002 7:46:25 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
There's an Ammunition section a bit further down the forum with descriptions and probably a FAQ.

SS109 doesn't have a green tip. M855 Ball does.

-- Chuck

They are one and the same, M855 being the military designation.

No they are not the same.

M855 is the US Army designation for the Nato standard round.

SS109 is the FN name for its 62gr penetrator tip projectile (that M855 uses).

Not all NATO 'SS109' rounds meet the US M855 standard. Several of them are loaded lightly compared to M855

Just as not all 55gr FMJ is M193 spec, not all rounds with the SS109 projectile are M855.

Posted: 1/11/2002 7:48:55 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
I keep on seeing people mention the green tipped round. There is nothing special about it.

Actually the round does have a couple of advantages over M193 IN SPECIFIC APPLICATIONS.

For one it has a longer range to engage "
point Targets" (almost 100M more in a 20" M16A2). At range it has much better penetrating capability.

For most uses however I do prefer M193.

Posted: 1/11/2002 7:53:39 AM EDT

[#8]

rifleman2000, dont run before you can walk.

Posted: 1/11/2002 8:39:45 AM EDT

[#9]

Tuukka,

I second that, too many people know a little about something and think and act like they are experts. Apparently Rifleman 2000 did not know about the penetrator core or he would have mentioned it as a feature. I have been shooting for almost 40 years, I started shooting at a very young age and I still do not know everything and I try to never act like an expert on a subject unless I am an expert on that subject. Have a nice day.

Posted: 1/11/2002 8:46:00 AM EDT

[#10]

If any of you have read Black Hawk Down you will know what the Delta force boys think of this round! One of the commented that he had to shoot every person 3 or 4 times to kill them since there was no fragmentation. The rounds are great when you shoot at vest or vehicle, but not good for shooting humans. Once again our military is trapped behind the

C4

Posted: 1/11/2002 10:26:41 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Tuukka,

I second that, too many people know a little about something and think and act like they are experts. Apparently Rifleman 2000 did not know about the penetrator core or he would have mentioned it as a feature. I have been shooting for almost 40 years, I started shooting at a very young age and I still do not know everything and I try to never act like an expert on a subject unless I am an expert on that subject. Have a nice day.

Hopefully i didn´t come off as a too big of a bastard and i try to follow the same guideline you said in the end.

Posted: 1/11/2002 10:28:37 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
If any of you have read Black Hawk Down you will know what the Delta force boys think of this round! One of the commented that he had to shoot every person 3 or 4 times to kill them since there was no fragmentation. The rounds are great when you shoot at vest or vehicle, but not good for shooting humans. Once again our military is trapped behind the

C4

And why was SFC Howe complaining...because of his 14.5" barrel was causing this, a fact he was not aware of it seems. Did you spot any Army Rangers complaining about their M16A2s....

Posted: 1/11/2002 10:49:49 AM EDT

[#13]

The fragmentation range of the M855 is MUCH shorter than with the M193, due to the increased mass and the decreased velocity. Thru a 14.5" barrel, this problem is compounded.

Posted: 1/11/2002 12:48:12 PM EDT

[#14]

Not that much shorter. Out of a 14.5" barrel M193 ball drops to 2700fps at 75 yards, and to 2500 fps at 120 yards.

M855 ball drops to 2700fps at 45 yards, and to 2500 fps at 85 yards (14.5" barrel).

Both are well within your average combat range.

Edited to change 55 grainer and 62 grainer to M193 ball and M855 ball, respectively.

Posted: 1/11/2002 1:32:43 PM EDT

[#15]

To everyone who corrected me: I stand corrected and appreciate the honesty. Now opening mouth, inserting foot...

Posted: 1/11/2002 1:46:01 PM EDT

[#16]

Now being said; i have to say something! if the factor was overpenetration with the ranger's now if they used a non steel core penetrator ammo like the ss109 62 grain standerd FMJBT! now would this would knock them down better?
i mean this would give the bullet much better fragment.

Posted: 1/11/2002 2:04:20 PM EDT

[#17]

Hey Big_Bear, Not that it really matters, but shouldn't that read Meters and not Yards?

Posted: 1/11/2002 11:54:21 PM EDT

[#18]

Profet_M -- M855 fragments similar to M193. The steel core doesn't prevent M855 from fragmenting as it actually fragments at the base of the bullet aft of the cannelure. The nose of the bullet forward of the cannelure usually remains in one piece.

www.firearmstactical.com/pagea18.htm

Torf -- Meters? We don't need no steenkin' meters!

...No problemo...

Same barrel length, M193 drops to 2700fps at 68 meters, and to 2500 fps at 109 meters.

M855 drops to 2700fps at 41 meters and to 2500 fps at 77 meters.

Happy now?

Posted: 1/12/2002 1:20:43 AM EDT

[#19]

www.ecis.com/~mraudio/AR15_Ammo_FAQ.htm

-Troy

Posted: 1/12/2002 7:27:01 AM EDT

[#20]

Once again....Please read...Follow the link:
www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/556.htm

Do paying members get a full FAQ section?

Posted: 1/12/2002 7:33:18 AM EDT

[#21]

First, don't mess with Chuck or the old school listers will show you the hard way...

Second, you can discount most of the stuff about it in BHD as BS and embellishment, same as with m1 cal. .30 carbine, attribute most to misses and the rest to other factors, m193 does almost the exact same things in most situations.

Finally, read the faqs and old posts before you start a topic that has been covered HUNDREDS of times before.
-bill

Posted: 1/12/2002 9:55:17 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
www.ecis.com/~mraudio/AR15_Ammo_FAQ.htm

I see you came up with different numbers than I did.

M193 - 14.5" barrel - 2700fps - 95-100m
M855 - 14.5" barrel - 2700fps - 45-50m

I dunno. Maybe I used a different ballistic coefficient than you did. The ammo FAQ is probably more correct.

Posted: 1/12/2002 4:36:18 PM EDT

[#23]

Instead of using a ballistic calculator, I used (someone else's) actual chonograph measurements. And remember that I noted that environmental conditions can affect velocity pretty significantly, so it isn't unusual for people in one part of the country to get different results than people in another part of the country. Or the same person to get two different results with the same guns/ammo on two different days.

-Troy

Posted: 1/12/2002 5:11:59 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
The green tip indicates "Earth Friendly".Tell your treehugger friends this..

Meplat-

LMAO. And it has a core made from recycled newspapers. That should shut them up.

Posted: 1/12/2002 5:21:51 PM EDT

[#25]

(Laughing under breath)

Its the Chronic bullets.
Baqhhhah

Posted: 1/13/2002 12:02:25 AM EDT

[#26]

Oh yeah!?!??!!
Well just look and see what these Delta Force boys have to say about it!!!

Cut and paste if you don't believe me.

http://www.deltaforce.com/catalog/back_cover.html

Armor Piercing .223 Ammunition
The optimum choice for defeating reinforced targets. This is SS-109 delivering a 63 grain bullet at 3100 FPS. We have been able to secure a Limited Supply of this scarce ammo. So don't delay. Designed for firearms in good working order only. Perfect for your AR-15/M16, Ruger Mini-14, HK93, Rem 700, etc.
Item # AP210--10 Pack $19.95
Item # AP225--100 Pack $139.95

BWWAAAHH HAA HAA !!!!!

(That extra grain thrown in there sure ain't the grain of truth.)

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The GREEN TIPPED round!

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